Mark your calendars.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 23, 2010 6:12 PM GMT
    This May 20 will mark the first annual "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day".
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 23, 2010 8:47 PM GMT
    Is this going too far? It's one thing to occasionally satire a religious figure -- we should be able to do that -- but this antagonizes all Muslims. Including the ones that stood by and have said nothing about what South Park or Theo Van Gogh did.
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    Apr 23, 2010 10:29 PM GMT
    guys becareful, they might put bombs in your cars(i kid lol) icon_eek.gif

    but I'll go with SP rendition of Mohammed

    c1main_southparkstudios.jpg

    ps~he is inside the bear constume
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    Apr 23, 2010 11:16 PM GMT
    I don't believe this is going "too far". It certainly may be unpleasant for some Muslims, but certainly, to suggest that all Muslims are bothered by this is not much different than suggesting that all Muslims are terrorists, or all Christians are homophobic. In free speech, there is no too far, IMO. Ugly should never inspire death threats and Dan Savage is pressing that point.
  • Iluros

    Posts: 559

    Apr 23, 2010 11:22 PM GMT
    I think this is pretty much the natural response.

    Moderate Muslims wont be offended by this because moderate Muslims believe it's okay for non-Muslims to depict Muhammad. It may not be wise to incense extremist Muslims but the gesture has a valid point in defense of free speech.
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    Apr 23, 2010 11:26 PM GMT
    Of course, the other side of the coin is that if you're a public figure like the SP guys or maybe even Dan Savage, when you offend the lunatic fringe (long long fringe), you could be risking you're life and you better have the courage of your convictions. It's one thing to stand up for an idea, it's another to lay down your life for it.
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    Apr 24, 2010 2:07 AM GMT
    McGay saidI don't believe this is going "too far". It certainly may be unpleasant for some Muslims, but certainly, to suggest that all Muslims are bothered by this is not much different than suggesting that all Muslims are terrorists, or all Christians are homophobic. In free speech, there is no too far, IMO. Ugly should never inspire death threats and Dan Savage is pressing that point.

    Can you explain your thought process to me? Because it sounds suspiciously like nonsense.

    Islam specifically prohibits visual depiction of the prophet Muhammad. Thus, if you subscribe to the religion of Islam, you are more likely than not to take umbrage to visual depictions of the prophet Muhammad. However, Muslims who also believe in free expression would condone other people visually depicting the prophet. There would be internal conflict, and though they would not take recourse of this action and possibly even speak out in favor of it, it's not the same as being completely okay with it.

    You tried to draw a corollary between "Muslims believe the tenets of the Islamic religion" and "some Muslims are terrorists, therefore all Muslims are terrorists" as well as "some Christians are homophobic, therefore all Christians are homophobic." Saying that someone would be offended based on their beliefs, certainly, is very different than saying someone would commit acts of violence based on their beliefs. (To illustrate the corollary you proposed, there's a difference between "Christians believe in Jesus" and "all Christians are homophobic.")

    Yes, you have the right to free speech. You can go too far with it, but it's your right to. Ultimate freedom is being allowed to go too far. You are completely entitled to use your right to free expression to be a jackass. I will defend to the death your right to act like a dickhead, but in the meantime, I am bound by honor and democracy to try to convince you not to act like a dickhead, and instead use your rights for some constructive purpose.

    "Everybody Depict the Prophet Muhammad Day" is intended to piss off radical Muslim extremists, and probably will. But it also runs a serious risk of offending every other Muslim, even if they agree with your right to do it. Ultimately, the ratio of "People You're Pissing Off" to "People Who Deserve It" is going to be heavily skewed toward the former, and will do nothing but inspire further violence from the latter. It's a fruitless exercise.

    You also risk losing the sympathy, goodwill, and cooperation from your average Muslim, especially those who reside in the Middle East. America and the American people have a very poor public image there, and you're showing flagrant disrespect for their religion. You forgot that we need to win them over, to show that we can exist in harmony, not that we're going to take every opportunity we can to act like assholes and then taunt back "Hey, we get to act like assholes because we have freedoms that you don't!"

    So, once again, what is everybody drawing Muhammad going to do?
  • creature

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    Apr 24, 2010 2:37 AM GMT
    I wonder if there were death threats from South Park's first depiction of Mohammed. He was on an episode as a member of of a Super Friends-type group fighting a magician (David Blaine, I think).
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    Apr 24, 2010 4:15 AM GMT
    creature saidI wonder if there were death threats from South Park's first depiction of Mohammed. He was on an episode as a member of of a Super Friends-type group fighting a magician (David Blaine, I think).
    there was & they made another episode solely focusing on the muslim issue of threatt & censorship....if you watched the ending you would know :i
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    Apr 24, 2010 10:45 AM GMT
    next thing you know theres gonna be a world-wide "burn the crucifix day"

    icon_rolleyes.gif

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2010 11:50 AM GMT
    I'm all for everyone having free speech but if you know that something like this blatantly offends someone why would you go and instigate?

    To me this is just as bad as some Preachers who carry signs around condemn homosexuals..
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    Apr 24, 2010 11:54 AM GMT
    McGay saidI don't believe this is going "too far". It certainly may be unpleasant for some Muslims, but certainly, to suggest that all Muslims are bothered by this is not much different than suggesting that all Muslims are terrorists, or all Christians are homophobic. In free speech, there is no too far, IMO. Ugly should never inspire death threats and Dan Savage is pressing that point.


    There was a interview done with the director of the movie 2012 and he removed his scene of Mecca getting destroy due to the outcry of some Muslims. He cited how a previous director had a "hit" put out on his head by depicting Muhummad in a cartoon. That director who drew Muhummad went into hiding.

    The point is you may think it's all fun and laughs but you know how cruel people can be with their insensitive speech. The thought of someone who gets just as much negative press as another group completely baffles me. Like
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Apr 24, 2010 4:57 PM GMT
    IsmeIvan1990 said
    creature saidI wonder if there were death threats from South Park's first depiction of Mohammed. He was on an episode as a member of of a Super Friends-type group fighting a magician (David Blaine, I think).
    there was & they made another episode solely focusing on the muslim issue of threatt & censorship....if you watched the ending you would know :i


    Yes, I've seen the two-part Cartoon Wars. But that was regarding the issue of censorship around that time because of the threats against the Danish cartoonist. However the one that actually showed Mohammed is an earlier episode, which is why his depiction was shown. The political climate was different. That's why I asked if there were threats made then :I
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    Apr 24, 2010 5:32 PM GMT
    stoneymcpuffnpass said
    McGay saidI don't believe this is going "too far". It certainly may be unpleasant for some Muslims, but certainly, to suggest that all Muslims are bothered by this is not much different than suggesting that all Muslims are terrorists, or all Christians are homophobic. In free speech, there is no too far, IMO. Ugly should never inspire death threats and Dan Savage is pressing that point.

    Can you explain your thought process to me? Because it sounds suspiciously like nonsense.

    I'm saying that regardless of someone's offense at the depiction of their religious icon, death threats are over the top. I'm also saying that not all those who identify as Muslim will even bat an eye at this, despite the dictate of the Koran.

    Islam specifically prohibits visual depiction of the prophet Muhammad. Thus, if you subscribe to the religion of Islam, you are more likely than not to take umbrage to visual depictions of the prophet Muhammad. However, Muslims who also believe in free expression would condone other people visually depicting the prophet.

    I think 'condone' might be stronger than you intended. I think that Muslims who believe in free expression would tolerate, or put up with this, not condone it.

    There would be internal conflict, and though they would not take recourse of this action and possibly even speak out in favor of it, it's not the same as being completely okay with it.

    or condoning it

    You tried to draw a corollary between "Muslims believe the tenets of the Islamic religion" and "some Muslims are terrorists, therefore all Muslims are terrorists" as well as "some Christians are homophobic, therefore all Christians are homophobic."

    I was pointing out that to think all Muslims would be bothered by this issue would be like saying all (group) are (attribute).

    Saying that someone would be offended based on their beliefs, certainly, is very different than saying someone would commit acts of violence based on their beliefs.

    I agree with you. Indignation does not equal violence. I wasn't suggesting anything to the contrary.

    (To illustrate the corollary you proposed, there's a difference between "Christians believe in Jesus" and "all Christians are homophobic.")

    Phew. I thought you were going to draw a picture of Jesus and then I'd have to cut off your head.

    Yes, you have the right to free speech. You can go too far with it, but it's your right to. Ultimate freedom is being allowed to go too far. You are completely entitled to use your right to free expression to be a jackass. I will defend to the death your right to act like a dickhead, but in the meantime, I am bound by honor and democracy to try to convince you not to act like a dickhead, and instead use your rights for some constructive purpose.

    "Everybody Depict the Prophet Muhammad Day" is intended to piss off radical Muslim extremists, and probably will. But it also runs a serious risk of offending every other Muslim, even if they agree with your right to do it. Ultimately, the ratio of "People You're Pissing Off" to "People Who Deserve It" is going to be heavily skewed toward the former, and will do nothing but inspire further violence from the latter. It's a fruitless exercise.

    You also risk losing the sympathy, goodwill, and cooperation from your average Muslim, especially those who reside in the Middle East. America and the American people have a very poor public image there, and you're showing flagrant disrespect for their religion. You forgot that we need to win them over, to show that we can exist in harmony, not that we're going to take every opportunity we can to act like assholes and then taunt back "Hey, we get to act like assholes because we have freedoms that you don't!"

    So, once again, what is everybody drawing Muhammad going to do?

    Finally, phew, I'm sorry, I had to stop reading your post, but, finally, I'll say that if an organization of billions of people cannot withstand the puff of air, that is a cartoon, being blown against the walls of it's empire, without reacting with violence, even from it's lunatic fringe, then it's an empire worthy of huffing and puffing and having their house blown down.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2010 5:55 PM GMT
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2010 6:40 PM GMT
    All right, McGay. You didn't read anything that I wrote, whatever. (You proved that even before you admitted you stopped attempting to read.)

    At least do me the favor of looking up what the word "condone" means.

    Edit: Okay, I know you're not going to look up "condone." I'm not putting up the definition for your benefit, this is for everybody else who reads this thread.

    Condone: to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like).

    CONDONE FUCKING MEANS TOLERATE OR PUT UP WITH, YOU TIT.
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    Apr 24, 2010 6:42 PM GMT
    Somewhere Bin Ladin's head just exploded
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Apr 24, 2010 6:46 PM GMT
    I support this movement wholeheartedly.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2010 6:55 PM GMT
    McGay said In free speech, there is no too far, IMO.


    i know someone that would agree with you, i bet you have a lot in common...
    coulter_adamsapple.jpg
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    Apr 24, 2010 7:12 PM GMT
    stoneymcpuffnpass saidAll right, McGay. You didn't read anything that I wrote, whatever. (You proved that even before you admitted you stopped attempting to read.)

    At least do me the favor of looking up what the word "condone" means.

    Edit: Okay, I know you're not going to look up "condone." I'm not putting up the definition for your benefit, this is for everybody else who reads this thread.

    Condone: to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like).

    CONDONE FUCKING MEANS TOLERATE OR PUT UP WITH, YOU TIT.

    Hey, blistery cuntlips, it took all my strength to get through your fucking verbal diarrhea. If I misused a word, I have no problem recognizing it, even when it's spurred on by your inanely dronish attempt to disagree with me.

    I'll also shamelessly admit that I have been using the word condone incorrectly all my life. I have been using it to mean support. You do learn something new everyday, even if it comes from blistery cuntlipped schmucks.
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    Apr 24, 2010 7:14 PM GMT
    velovert2 said
    McGay said In free speech, there is no too far, IMO.


    i know someone that would agree with you, i bet you have a lot in common...
    coulter_adamsapple.jpg


    I'm insulted, for sure, but tell me, master of wisdom, do you think you can discern the proper place to draw lines between acceptability and unacceptability when it comes to free speech? If it's not an absolute, then it's not free speech.
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    Apr 24, 2010 7:25 PM GMT
    McGay said
    velovert2 said
    McGay said In free speech, there is no too far, IMO.


    i know someone that would agree with you, i bet you have a lot in common...
    coulter_adamsapple.jpg


    I'm insulted, for sure, but tell me, master of wisdom, do you think you can discern the proper place to draw lines between acceptability and unacceptability when it comes to free speech? If it's not an absolute, then it's not free speech.


    i'm sorry, it was really a joke. i actually agree with you on that point, there's just so many people that do it in a manner that is deliberately designed to hurt others rather than be constructive. and i'm sure that's where you and ms. coulter differ greatly.
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    Apr 24, 2010 7:26 PM GMT
    My adam's apple isn't nearly as big, though we both have one.
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    Apr 24, 2010 7:31 PM GMT
    McGay saidMy adam's apple isn't nearly as big, though we both have one.


    see, i knew you had something in common! i'm imagining you two locked in a room together and the conversation that ensues.
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    Apr 24, 2010 7:34 PM GMT
    velovert2 said
    McGay saidMy adam's apple isn't nearly as big, though we both have one.


    see, i knew you had something in common! i'm imagining you two locked in a room together and the conversation that ensues.


    Here's a sample:

    "Yeah, you like that, Mann Coulter? You like that big gay cock? Yeah, swallow it, bitchboy. Watch your teeth or I'll smack you again."

    "gmrmmp"