Effeminate gay guys...whats the deal with that anyway.

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    May 24, 2007 10:53 AM GMT
    Alright. Let me premise my question cause I know this might get ugly and I'm trying to learn. I don't know if this has been discussed but I'll bring it up again if it has for shits and giggles. And I know its a really obscure question but I just wanted to get your opinions. We all know that there is a certain way stereotypical gay guys talk, its not quite like a chick but its damn near close to how a 14 year old girl would talk. And there is a certain look and mannerisms. Is it just me? So is it nature, nurture? both? I'm not talking about the "being gay" and liking guys part, but the being stereotypically gay and talking and acting in that fashion. A lot of guys have said that growing up everyone knew and never came out and some including myself, not a lot of people could tell. So where do you guys think it comes from?
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    May 24, 2007 11:54 AM GMT
    Don't you think turning yourself into a muscle mary, wearing tight tops and pretending to be straight is also a stereotype? Just one that's different and more acceptable to you. Get off your judgemental high horse and let people be themselves.
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    May 24, 2007 12:00 PM GMT
    Let's remember that what we dislike about others is merely a projection of what we dislike about ourselves...
  • cityguy39

    Posts: 967

    May 24, 2007 12:08 PM GMT
    Good point Red.
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    May 24, 2007 12:23 PM GMT
    Sound like me when I was a kid. I think I response to this before. Anyway I used to be effeminate . I talk like girl, I walk with a slight swing on my hip, I hang around girls and I enjoy doing girls stuff like gossiping, idolizing female artist (and wishing to be like them), enjoying Nancy Drew and etc. Probably the enviroment have to do with it. There no boy my age to play with.So I play with girls . At school I was a skinny and weak kid, so I dont hang around boy who constantly pick on me. Even my brother pick on me , so I am more comfortable with my sister.

    However when I grow up at the university, the bullying stop, so I hang around boy. I start doing boy stuff like lifting weight, kick boxing , marathon , mountain climbing and other masculine stuff. When I join the military , they really make the men out of me. From dressing , hobbies, automobile to the choice of furniture, masculine material always more appealling to me. I believe the environment and people we hang around with have to do with the way we behave.

    However the environment do not shape my sexuality. That remain constant probably for the rest of my life.
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    May 24, 2007 1:45 PM GMT
    I don't interpret owl975's question as being intentionally judgmental or inflammatory. I'm pretty sure that all he is asking is our opinion on the origin of what appears to be an innate "queeniness".

    Personally, I don't have an opinion about the origins of stereotypically gay traits. I just don't know the answer. Growing up, I was nerdish and non-athletic, but I never exhibited traits that would identify me as gay, and I was never accused of being gay. OTOH, I had a boyfriend whose mother told me she knew he was gay as a very young child.
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    May 24, 2007 2:34 PM GMT
    personally, i think it's hormones though i don't know much about things like that. some personalities are just very exaggerated.

    i grew up in the bush (country) and had lots of friends that were "redneck" and their characteristics were quite exaggerated (in the opposite) which seemed to me to be a product of environment and i found i sometimes speak with an occa (stereotypical aussie accent) which is noticeable every now and then but it faded somewhat when i moved to the city. BUT one aboriginal friend had incredibly "queeny" characteristics so i don't know....

    in high school you most likely would've called me gay though now a lot of people question if a straight friend of mine is gay rather than me, one didn't realise for two years and many don't know until i tell them.

    too hard of a question!
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    May 24, 2007 3:21 PM GMT
    I think much of it has to do with a lack of visible diverse gay role models. The mainstream media tends to portray gay men as either Jack McFarlands (superfiscial and uber-femme) or Brian Kinneys (from QAF - butch, emotionally-stunted, superficial and promiscuous). So unless someone knows someonne who is out & different than this, these become the "default" role models for many people (primarily young people, but not always). The only it is hard to figure out what you "should" be (and I say that in parentheises as all cultures have a structured set of "appropriate" behaviours, regardless of orientation). Sadly, many people end up with personas as opposed to personalities.

    The other "option" for many men who don't identify with the traditional male role models is to emulate strong women (or at least women who appear strong) -- the bitches & the divas. However, this doesn't just manifest in personality, but often in the form of physical attributes (gestures, ways of speaking, etc.)

    In my opinion, this is one of the best reasons for more gay men (and women) to come out -- to show that we are more than stereotypes, and that we have diverse personalities (both good and bad) just like straight people do.
  • gymingit

    Posts: 156

    May 24, 2007 5:01 PM GMT
    Way to go Xanadude. Couldn't have said it better myself.

    From a personal standpoint, my personality is as versatile as I am sexually (top/bottom not bi). I am who I am with those I'm hanging around.

    When I hang with my cousin Sharon, I'm more into gossip in a feminine way and the way I portray myself, but usually I'm very butch when hanging with guys unless they are more feminine themselves.

    Some people may think I'm gay, but usually I have to tell them.
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    May 24, 2007 6:03 PM GMT
    I don't think there's one specific reason guys act like that. I think there's a time and a place for everything and I am no stranger to having a huge purse fall out of my mouth when the time is right.

    Gay stereotypes don't bother me at all. People that are streotypically gay usually experience the brunt of homophobia. And I say that from first hand experience.

    Again, I'm not sure why it happens, wether it be in the genes, environment or a combination of both. Whatever it is, I think the goal should be tolerence. In fact, the more important issue should be, why do some gay men hate on stereotypical gay men? That's what I'd like to know.
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    May 24, 2007 7:10 PM GMT
    "In fact, the more important issue should be, why do some gay men hate on stereotypical gay men? That's what I'd like to know."

    I'm sure Dr. ObsceneWish can give a more accurate, in-depth, and professional answer to that question than I can, but I'll take a shallow stab at it anyway. I think it boils down to patriarchal cultural conditioning with respect to masculinity, femininity, and gender roles.

    Patriarchally speaking, a man is supposed to be masculine, and if he's not, he's regarded as weak and less of a man. Plus, it is a woman's role to have sex with a man, therefore men who have sex with men are both acting like women. I think gay men buying into and acting out on that kind of conditioning by hating on stereotypical gay men are suffering from internalized homophobia, and it is expressed as hypermasculine overcompensation and lashing out at those who are more effeminate.
  • DavidnVA

    Posts: 21

    May 24, 2007 7:30 PM GMT
    Why does everything have to have a "plot" behind everything? Can't we all just accept that genetics plays a larger role in what shapes and molds us? I'm left handed and can't rightfully (pun intended ;) ) change that anymore than someone with feminine qualities can chang etheir actions. Can a guy maybe mask it? Sure, I suppose so.

    To me, it's a really obvious answer and should be to all those who agree that we're born gay and not fully molded by our environment or choose to be how we are. We may choose certain lifestyles but at the root, we're gay.

    My 2-cents and I'm sticking to it.
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    May 24, 2007 7:33 PM GMT
    I hate to say but effeminate gay men is pretty much how it all started in the first place. That is their character and a way of expressing themselve.

    I am pretty masculine and not all that attracted to the effeminate type. we usually all have two sides masculine and feminine. Any gay man on this site that does not have feminine traits is lying in one form or another.

    We usually are attracted to our opposite, so like it or not you may end up with a effeminate guy as a partner.

    I must say that there are degrees of gay men who show their girl side. Some are much too "drama queenie" and that is ok, someone will be attracted to them. I have seen them in the gym too and they are beefy! Put some of us to sham.

    I find it difficult to see that we are judging our own and that we should be showing a bit more respect to other gay men, it is bad enough that the rest of the world puts us down and now we have biggots in our own community doing the same. Come on smarten up!
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    May 24, 2007 7:51 PM GMT
    Interesting comments.
    I think that some are born with softer voices and softer features.
    On the other hand........remember the last time you were out and you saw some guy sitting at a table talking to his friends........hands flailing in the wind, girrrrrrrrllllllllll this and that........I don't think that's a "born with" feature. I call it Drama Queen. Some people just like the attention.
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    May 24, 2007 8:18 PM GMT
    Well....this gets pretty funny.

    Some guys like being guys. I like being a guy, for instance. I like everything about being a guy. I'm not into fetishes or any of that. I'm not pretending to be anything. What you see is what you get; I'm 100% out. I'd be giving myself to much credit if I thought that anyone gave a rat's tiny behind about my sexuality.

    That's the mental illness of so many guy / bi guys: they are SO caught up in their sexuality that's it's crippling to their lives and those around them. Nobody of any virtue cares about the sexuality thing, and with 6.6 BILLION folks in the world, if they do, they need to be dumped, and el pronto.

    Some guys have different genetics; same thing with some women. That's biology 101. Other "gays" are so insecure and attention starved that they see how outrageous they can be so as to garner the most attention possible.

    Unfortunately, the more typical gay / bi guys are fucked up by religion indoctrination / false belief systems / hatred of The South, so the public doesn't see them as much.

    Sexuality generally is not 100% different sex, or 100% same sex, but, almost always is somewhere in between.

    All the self-involvement over sexual preference is just plain silly. It is what it is.

    Femmy gay guys are no different from butch gay girls, or the same in the "straight" preference. It's just biology, or acting out. Whatever the case, it just is, and if you want to hang out with femmy gay guys, or butch gay girls, or transvestite folks, that's your thing.

    The important thing is that the public eventually come to understand that all gay / bi guys are so self-involved, pictureless, self-loathing, deceitful folks, sneaking around in the shadows. Many of us like ourselves just fine, refuse to be enablers to the mental illness of the pictureless, or enablers to the hate of the false belief systems, and we lead by example. My sexuality is but a SMALL portion of my life. If you don't like it, to bad: I have 6.6 BILLION other folks to associate with.
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    May 24, 2007 8:22 PM GMT
    A couple of years ago they discovered a gene(s) in Drosophila that caused effeminate behavioral characteristics. While I think that extreme effeminate behavior is somewhat a "learned behavior." I also think that a lot of guys can't help it. It's in their genes. While flies may be one thing, it's plausible to think that humans "may" have a similar gene...
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    May 24, 2007 8:59 PM GMT
    If you expose a male rate fetus to female hormones while still in uetero he behaves more like a female, and if you expose a female rate fetus to male hormones she then behaves more male. Is that genes or environment, or genes and environment acting together? And I ask that only because I see comments of "it's in their genes" but that seems to simplify it because rarely is anything as simple as just genes. But I think the question behind this is what makes someone gay in the first place, and that is something that is still unknown, and it seems that there is likely more than one cause or a variety of causes acting together. And I know some people don't like the term bi-sexual, but I think that sexuality is on a continuum and not defined into neat little categories, and the same with mannerisms and while you can moderate that to some effect there do seem to be those who naturally behave more "straight" and those who behave more "feminin" Gays are a heterogenous collection of people same as all and who can really say why someone behaves the way s/he does. But at the end of it, I am gay and that means I am different than a straight man and probably in more ways than just which gender I want to go to bed with.
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    May 24, 2007 9:34 PM GMT
    My simple 2 cents.... be yourself and be happy!
  • dhinkansas

    Posts: 764

    May 24, 2007 9:40 PM GMT

    When I walk and get a mocha after lunch, one barista likes to shriek like a girl. Underneath that, he's a nice guy and has turned out to be a pretty good friend. If I had judged him by the shrieking, I would have missed out on making a new friend. Everyone behaves differently, be it masculine, feminine or somewhere in between. It's all about what's in the heart and not if they carry a man purse.
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    May 24, 2007 9:45 PM GMT

    My simple 2 cents.... be yourself and be happy!

    yeah, and stop judging others by your own shabby, dumb assed standards. Pathetic.
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    May 24, 2007 10:21 PM GMT
    I know effeminate men who are straight to the core, and would never even think of romantic or sexual interaction with other men...

    Effeminate does not equal gay, but the majority of effeminate men do tend to be gay... This is not just a gay phenomenon...
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    May 24, 2007 10:38 PM GMT




  • mcwclewis

    Posts: 1701

    May 24, 2007 10:41 PM GMT
    There was a study a while back that tried to figure out what caused homosexuality. They found one gene that appeared ALMOST always in gay men... they think its connected.

    Also there was a study that found that most males who turned out to be gay only recieved two testosterone baths in their mothers wombs, while normal is three. These ones also tended to be more effeminate. Maybe thats the difference.... maybe that initial lack of exposure to hormones allows the anima a little more play in the homosexual males life.... that would explain why some straight guys are really femmy too.

    just a thought.
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    May 24, 2007 11:04 PM GMT
    I remember hearing about those studies.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    May 25, 2007 12:11 AM GMT
    You know what...
    effeminate gay men are just as much gay as you are
    just as gay as any steroid queen in the gym
    just as gay as any gay republican with his 1.2 SUV's in his driveway
    and just as gay as any raging circuit boy that's out there
    ...and they're no less than either
    so stop with the stereotypes - cause look in the mirror you might just see one staring back