Shoulder specific workout

  • Artesin

    Posts: 482

    May 08, 2010 5:21 PM GMT
    IN designing a new split workout routine I've hit a wall when it comes to finding a place for shoulders. I was just going to throw two exercises in on chest and tricep days. This didn't look very good on paper at all so decided that it may be best to just have a dedicated shoulder day. Problem is what exercises can be done that won't leave my triceps/biceps fatigued on their days? I want maximum gains but previously let shoulders just fall where they may and never isolated them, what's a good sequence of exercises that takes no more than an hour? Pref 45 minutes, high intensity, high weight 7-12 reps.

    Ive browsed through he forums but couldn't find anything specific so coming to you guys now.
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    May 08, 2010 6:40 PM GMT
    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/exercises/main.html
    Largest library of exercise video demos.
    Free-weights
    Barbells
    Body weight
    Machines
    Cables
    Etc.
  • Artesin

    Posts: 482

    May 08, 2010 6:46 PM GMT
    The sequence and number of sets would be what exactly?
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    May 08, 2010 7:46 PM GMT
    In my current split, I do bis/tris after shoulders. I don't see the problem.

    I also don't see how you're hitting biceps with any shoulder exercise -- this seems quite odd. Can you explain how this happens? I can't even imagine this.

    Triceps are going to get a bit involved with shoulders, depending on the exercise, but even there, I find that people who are hitting their tris too much during shoulder work aren't doing the exercises correctly, or are choosing the wrong exercises.

    For example, if you're doing them right, most all exercises for rear delts should NOT involve the triceps at all. Some exercises for the front and medial delts will involve the triceps (presses), but if you pick the right variant and do the motion properly, you can dramatically lower the involvement of the triceps. Many exercises for the medial heads will also exclude the triceps completely (cable crosses, lateral raises, etc.)


  • Pexus

    Posts: 70

    May 08, 2010 9:36 PM GMT
    I do a session a week specifically on my shoulders (this can include some upper back too). I am considering doing a heavy session and then a lighter one about 3 days later.

    A good shoulder exercise I use is essentially a side lateral raise with a lightish weight. I stand beside an upright and place my feet close to the upright. Holding on with one hand I lean to the side. Raising the dumbbell slowly to slightly above the horizontal and lowering but without actually letting it drop.

    This way I keep the shoulder under constant tension and repeat until it hurts. Do at least 3 sets of around 15 reps. If you can do more, increase the weight. You are looking to pump the shoulder as much as possible so you need the higher reps.

    Hope this makes sense...
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    May 08, 2010 9:55 PM GMT
    Pexus saidThis way I keep the shoulder under constant tension and repeat until it hurts. Do at least 3 sets of around 15 reps. If you can do more, increase the weight. You are looking to pump the shoulder as much as possible so you need the higher reps.


    Higher reps would build his endurance. From the OPs statement, I think he wants to get bigger delt's. He would use higher weight and lower reps (id est 8-10) in a total of 3 sets.

    Like Iguana said, I do my shoulders on the same day as arms. I don't think you would be too tired to work your bi's and tri's. Remember though that if you work one side of a muscle you want to work the other. I do front raises and lateral raises with 20lb dumbbells (don't laugh all you huge guys... I'm 135#) and military presses with 25 or 30lb dumbbells to get all ranges of motion. Between the different shoulder exercises I will do bicep curls or skull crushers/tricep kickbacks. As long as you're not working the same muscle back to back in a circuit, OP, you shouldn't be too exhausted.

    Iguana is also right that you shouldn't be hitting your triceps with your shoulders. That is a sign of bad form. You need to single out the muscle your are working. Perhaps you are moving your shoulder as opposed to just your elbow joint.
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    May 08, 2010 10:10 PM GMT
    Shoulders have always been the weakest part of my upper body & the hardest to see gains on, therefore I have always worked them hard. In just the last year, they have finally started to pop & Iam so glad that I put in the work. It makes such a difference in the overall look of my upper body. So, no, I cant imagine just skipping them from my workouts.

    I just now got back from my shoulder/traps workout of 2 hours and my tri's & bi's are just fine. I agree with the other guy who posted, if you are wearing out the tri's & bi's, you may have been taught the wrong form for your shoulder lifts. I see a lot of guys using a whole lot of other muscles then their shoulders during a shoulder workout. Many times it looks dangerous too. It takes some discipline to concentrate on mainly using the delts, but after I practiced & concentrated on it, it came easy. I think some of the guys I see are trying too lift too much weight, and so they need their other muscles to assist in the lift. I had to stash my ego when I first started lifting, & I felt like a wimp using 10 lb barbells, but it was well worth it because since I used the right form, the delts eventually built up & now I lift heavier weights (I am definitely no longer embaressed) & still have good form.

    I use all of the presses, etc, that the other guy posted here, so good luck!
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    May 09, 2010 12:22 AM GMT
    I was recently thinking about this dilemma. I recently switched to a split routine doing chest back and legs on one day and shoulders and arms on the next day. I do these workouts on consecutive days and i definetely noticed some fatigue in my shoulder workouts coming off a chest day. This is because it is impossible to work the chest without involving the delts to some degree. For me, doing heavy bench and incline presses gives my shoulders a significant workout. Im going to monitor how i adjust to this before changing anything else.

    Like others have mentioned i personally would never worry about fatigue in my arms from a shoulder workout.

    My advice is to experiment with various types of splits till you find one that suits you. If you really want to hammer the shoulders i recommend you arrange your split so that you train them on your chest days. This will both increase the overall intensity on your shoulders in one workout and reduce residual fatigue in subsequent workouts when you train your arms or back or whatever. If you train two body parts per workout try to do 4 exercises for up to 5 sets for each. If you train 3 bodyparts in a workout start with fewer exercises and gradually incorporate new ones while being careful not to overtrain.
  • Artesin

    Posts: 482

    May 09, 2010 1:03 AM GMT
    In theory I was worried about fatigue because this new routine was being designed around workouts being pulled off of a list and most workouts on a chest or arm day seemed to have delts and lats as an assist http://www.gain-weight-muscle-fast.com/weight-lifting-arms-shoulders-abs.html#triceps .

    For instance I can normally do military presses no problem with a 30-35 lb weight on each arm but after doing a chest/tri workout for an hour, closing out with the military presses was hard going and needed to drop down to 25 lb just to bang out 8 reps. Form usually isnt that much of an issue I work as slow as possible on the up and down to keep as much tension as possible and work in the most fatigue, on top of this it allows easy management of form. Although, despite how much fatigue i felt then, 2 hours ago, it seems like swimming a 500 would be no problem. I had 9 exercises, 3 sets each then 3 abs in a circuit at 30 reps. Only incorporating the military press as my isolated shoulder.

    Like I said, shoulders have never been a main focus so it's been irritating trying to encorporate them into a current work out or building a day just for them.
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    Jul 03, 2010 4:16 AM GMT
    hey stick with the basics


    http://www.projectswole.com/weight-training/the-top-5-best-shoulder-exercises/

    this will def burn them ..especially arnold press
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    Jul 03, 2010 4:46 AM GMT
    newbie2bb saidhey stick with the basics


    http://www.projectswole.com/weight-training/the-top-5-best-shoulder-exercises/

    this will def burn them ..especially arnold press
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    Oct 09, 2010 2:32 PM GMT
    My current weekly shoulder workout

    DB Lat raises front/side SS

    Up Rows

    Press

    Shrugs

    follwed by Tri's

    Rope pull downs
    DB overhead press

    Then leg raises/ kneeling rope pull downs for Abs



  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Oct 09, 2010 2:54 PM GMT
    Artesin saidIn theory I was worried about fatigue because this new routine was being designed around workouts being pulled off of a list and most workouts on a chest or arm day seemed to have delts and lats as an assist http://www.gain-weight-muscle-fast.com/weight-lifting-arms-shoulders-abs.html#triceps .

    For instance I can normally do military presses no problem with a 30-35 lb weight on each arm but after doing a chest/tri workout for an hour, closing out with the military presses was hard going and needed to drop down to 25 lb just to bang out 8 reps. Form usually isnt that much of an issue I work as slow as possible on the up and down to keep as much tension as possible and work in the most fatigue, on top of this it allows easy management of form. Although, despite how much fatigue i felt then, 2 hours ago, it seems like swimming a 500 would be no problem. I had 9 exercises, 3 sets each then 3 abs in a circuit at 30 reps. Only incorporating the military press as my isolated shoulder.

    Like I said, shoulders have never been a main focus so it's been irritating trying to encorporate them into a current work out or building a day just for them.
    ok buddy, here is a split that i give my clients and i use for myself. do chest and back and have arms all to themselves and do legs and shoulders. these guys have given you some great shoulder exercises so i will not go into detail about the exercises but you can definitely use the splits. by the way, you should never do back and shoulders on the same day. mostly because a lot of the exercises for both include the same muscles. anyhow, you have been given some good advice. now you have to read through it and decide for yourself which is worth keeping
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    Oct 10, 2010 3:06 AM GMT
    I do the exact split tuffguyndc suggests (and no, he's not my trainer!) lol

    My workout looks like

    D1: Chest/Back

    D2: Cardio/Abs

    D3: Bis/Tris

    D4: Cardio/Abs

    D5: Legs/Shoulder

    D6: Sometimes, for extra credit, an upper body (chest/back/bis/tris) work out which is more of a doing-weights-in-a-circuit-as-cardio type routine

    D7: Rest



    ..works for me..