One of my High School students said he seen a gay gathering on tv, and wished he could bomb all of them?

  • twonutbuster

    Posts: 96

    May 09, 2010 12:15 PM GMT
    I told him it's not right, and all people are different. What would you have said?
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    May 09, 2010 12:19 PM GMT
    This is why you have 1m rulers.. I'd have said all I wanted to say with that ruler icon_smile.gif
  • MuscleComeBac...

    Posts: 2376

    May 09, 2010 12:43 PM GMT
    Wow. So tough.

    A person of color working as an educator in public (or private) schools would have support, and a mechanism to counsel and manage the child and, in some cases, the parents as well. But when the victim is invisible, then it's difficult to even go to a colleague and say "hey...warning, this kid is spewing some serious hate, and having violent thoughts about X population". That's something administration and faculty alike should be aware of. And the parents, too.

    But that's a ridiculous expectation because most gay educators aren't safe.

    So you said the most you could. And that you said anything -- given the likelihood of your possibly losing your job had you said much more -- is good. But should you also alert someone like a counselor?

    What would you like to have said? Truly.

  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    May 09, 2010 3:03 PM GMT
    lilTanker saidThis is why you have 1m rulers.. I'd have said all I wanted to say with that ruler icon_smile.gif


    so is that why you keep one in your bedroom? icon_wink.gif

    ...to the OP, I would've said that makes you a domestic terrorist by definition and if I ever hear you talk like that again I'll report you to homeland security
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    May 09, 2010 3:28 PM GMT
    I actually had something like this this happen in my senior high school political science class. Every day I set aside several moments for a few students to present some political item they had found in the news, and then we'd have a brief discussion. Given the number of students in the class, each student had to do this about every 2 weeks.

    One day a student presented an item about gay rights. I forget the specific issue, but during the class discussion one student started condemning gays while waving his Bible in his hand (which he always brought with him). "God hates gays, they're all going to Hell, it's right here in the Bible!" he yelled. I wasn't out to my students (irrelevant to my job), but now I was on the spot.

    So my response was to offer no opinion of my own, except to remind this student to avoid emotional outbursts, and then to ask his fellow students for their own views. As I suspected would happen as I moderated, they ripped him to shreds, and I found myself in the position of defending him, on the basis of fairness and maintaining civil discourse in the classroom.

    This may not work in every classroom, depending on the student mix and group psychology, or when dealing with a student one-on-one. But when possible, peer pressure is very powerful, and the kids can say things to each other that teachers dare not. It was also part of my approach of empowering my senior students, to express themselves freely, think on their own, and not merely to lecture to them.
  • kietkat

    Posts: 342

    May 09, 2010 3:29 PM GMT
    Wow, did he say this in a class discussion? Perhaps, it was an opportunity for the the little snot to get some much needed attention. In any event, there was only so much you could've said without causing any further problems.
  • sportsjockla

    Posts: 498

    May 09, 2010 3:33 PM GMT
    Ask him why he feels that way about gay people. What makes him hate them so much? Who taught him to hate like that?
  • B71115

    Posts: 482

    May 09, 2010 3:35 PM GMT
    If you're his English teacher, you tell him he "saw" a gathering of gay people, for starters.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    May 09, 2010 3:41 PM GMT
    sportsjockla saidAsk him why he feels that way about gay people. What makes him hate them so much? Who taught him to hate like that?


    I agree. Sounds like a good opportunity to teach this student about something other than English. I thought RedVespa's approach in a similar situation was spot on. Opening the discussion to the whole class served to open minds and, hopefully, teach some tolerance of people who are different.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    May 09, 2010 3:42 PM GMT
    You probably said all you could, and it wasn't far from the mark. Hard to stay cool in moments like that.

    I taught for 16 years, and coached for all of my active career. In the end, I came out to everyone (I'd been "more-or-less" out all the time); very few problems, and none serious - and much support from kids and parents alike. I even had notes from some parents thanking me for being open with the kids.

    There may be good reasons why you can't come out - I'm not here to judge - but every time you make someone think, you do some good. Opening it up to wider discussion might be the way to go next time.

    Best wishes,

    Nat
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    May 09, 2010 3:48 PM GMT
    sportsjockla saidAsk him why he feels that way about gay people. What makes him hate them so much? Who taught him to hate like that?



    I agree. I would have ask him a number of questions about his views and perceptions. Is he just repeating shit he's heard from friends and the like or is this
    something more sinister. If it looks more serious, I'd have reported him to the administration and counselors.
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    May 09, 2010 3:58 PM GMT
    I think you should report it to the school's dean, who should have him referred for counseling. Who knows what is going on in his twisted little mind, but someone should figure it out. He is potentially dangerous not just to you, but to other students and has created an environment that is not conducive to others feeling safe. This should be less about how you feel about what he said, and more about how your other students are impacted. Think for just one second - what if he had said he wished he could bomb Asian people? What would you do then? It is irresponsible to do anything less than get professionals who deal with violent youth involved, in my opinion.
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    May 09, 2010 4:03 PM GMT
    "So you think being gay is bad, but bombing/killing people is good?"
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    May 09, 2010 4:08 PM GMT
    sportsjockla saidAsk him why he feels that way about gay people. What makes him hate them so much? Who taught him to hate like that?


    Do this, and bring in his parents for a discussion. Chances are that's where his values are coming from. Tell his parents directly that that kind of animosity towards other people is unacceptable, and perhaps he needs to be taught a lesson outside of school.
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    May 09, 2010 4:17 PM GMT
    You know, I hear these types of comments from young people (what's most surprising to me is how emotionally delayed people are today; behaviors that used to be common among middle schoolers are seen a lot in first-year college students)...I think we as gay people need to understand that, with more visibility on television and media, that visibility is largely coming from people living in progressive cities that have always been that way. Away from the progressive east and west coasts, the 'younger people are more tolerant' thing isn't necessarily true. What's worse is where they get their information today. Right-wing, born-again Christian blogs and websites might be the only place they're getting their information. And so, in their minds, even though this 'let's kill the gays' goes against all this 'pro-life' crap they've been taught, that's probably what they really believe. Often the parents are the same way.

    If anything this is a reminder that we have a long ways to go. A minority community is only as strong as the people in it which is demonstrated by how we support, trust and listen to other gay people. Personally I have watched that slowly slide downhill over the last 10-15 years to the point where many of these closeted men I talk to on here won't come out not because of how their family and friends might treat them, but because they have been met by other gay people with such hostility and meanness that they don't understand the point in coming out if they are just going to be treated even worse and thus have no safe place in this life, if straight people are just not supportive and understanding while other gay people ridicule each other for not living up to unrealistic expectations and the results of missing out on how to be a friend and in a relationship as an adult. We as gay men have to stop living an anonymous, see-ya-later, don't bother calling/acknowledging me on the street attitude with each other. Just think of what a strong group of people we could be if we used our life experience and strength to be the MEN we are rather than the 14 year old snotty girls that everyone sees us as.

    Our lives could be great if we wanted it.
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    May 09, 2010 4:22 PM GMT
    abelian0 saidI think you should report it to the school's dean, who should have him referred for counseling. Who knows what is going on in his twisted little mind, but someone should figure it out. He is potentially dangerous not just to you, but to other students and has created an environment that is not conducive to others feeling safe. This should be less about how you feel about what he said, and more about how your other students are impacted. Think for just one second - what if he had said he wished he could bomb Asian people? What would you do then? It is irresponsible to do anything less than get professionals who deal with violent youth involved, in my opinion.


    QFT
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    May 09, 2010 4:36 PM GMT
    Satyricon331> QFT

    QFT?
    Queer For That?

    Are you commenting on abelian0 or what he said? (:

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    May 09, 2010 4:39 PM GMT
    Best course of action is to turn him in dude!
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    May 09, 2010 4:40 PM GMT
    calibro said
    lilTanker saidThis is why you have 1m rulers.. I'd have said all I wanted to say with that ruler icon_smile.gif


    so is that why you keep one in your bedroom? icon_wink.gif

    ...to the OP, I would've said that makes you a domestic terrorist by definition and if I ever hear you talk like that again I'll report you to homeland security


    I like Cailbro's approach.
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    May 09, 2010 4:42 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa> So my response was to offer no opinion of my own, except to remind this student to avoid emotional outbursts, and then to ask his fellow students for their own views. ...when possible, peer pressure is very powerful, and the kids can say things to each other that teachers dare not

    I'm glad to hear this worked out in your classroom. Might be a sign of some gains we've made... or that you teach in a liberal community. But as you note, it may not always be possible. In the Bible belt, perhaps most of the students would have whipped out their Bibles and agreed. (And it'd be less likely that there was a gay teacher present, but just as likely that one or two students present were gay.)
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    May 09, 2010 4:44 PM GMT
    Saying something about your student to the school admin and/or counselor would be a good idea. There's been enough stories of teen snipers in schools. What if this young man took it upon himself to do something about students in the school he thinks are gay?
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    May 09, 2010 4:44 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 saidSatyricon331> QFT

    QFT?
    Queer For That?

    Are you commenting on abelian0 or what he said? (:



    hahaha

    QFT = quoted for truth
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    May 09, 2010 4:47 PM GMT
    twonutbuster saidI told him it's not right, and all people are different. What would you have said?


    I look forward to seeing you repeat this class in summer school....Sucka!
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    May 09, 2010 4:47 PM GMT
    ...and all this time I thought it meant Quit Fucking Toads. Bill thought it meant Quick Flying Toes. So we had a huge fight and didn't speak for a month (obvious joke). icon_lol.gif

    -Doug
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    May 09, 2010 5:00 PM GMT
    wrestlervic said...bring in his parents for a discussion. Chances are that's where his values are coming from. Tell his parents directly that that kind of animosity towards other people is unacceptable, and perhaps he needs to be taught a lesson outside of school.

    I would not recommend that. This is Winslow, Arizona. Remember, the state that just passed the anti-immigration bill? That is trying to require President Obama to show that state his birth certificate? (Both actions violations of the US Constitution and the concept of Federalism, but supported by a majority of Arizonans)

    It's up to the school administrators to call the student's parents in, which I doubt they will, if they're White (or is this a mostly Native American school?). The parents can just counter that any complaints about their child's statements are infringing on their religious principles, and sue the school.

    Keep in mind this is a key reason US Christian groups have opposed anti-gay hate laws. They claim it would be a violation of their religious freedom if they could not preach against gays, according to their beliefs. (Despite exemptions for religious groups in these laws, which are conveniently overlooked by them in their hateful desire to prevent gays from having any protections at all)

    Therefore, I would not advise the OP to place himself in the middle of a controversy that might get him fired. He does more good staying where he is than falling on his sword, which is just playing to the homophobes who would be glad to see him gone.