Serious Topic - My Friend feels like he's "failed as a gay man" and wants to go straight

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:14 AM GMT
    So this is gonna be kinda long, but bear with me please, trying to find some advice for my friend.

    So I got a friend, let's call him "Jeff" who's in his mid 20s, a decent looking dude, no fitness model, but a solid 8/10 looks wise, and he works his butt off with me and the rest of the gym crew to get bigger/cut. Otherwise, he's a loyal friend, really caring to those closest to him, looks out for his friends, has a great job, really smart, funny, generally an all around decent guy. Probably someone that a lot would consider a catch.

    So why does he want to kill himself? Why does he fell like crap that he's gay? Why does he feel like he's not worth anything because he doesn't look like a fitness model? Why do people on sites like this ignore him?

    He's tried killing himself a couple of times in the past because he can't handle the negativity he's dealt with FROM gay people. He tells me he's been looked down on for not being the hottest guy in the room, that because he is religious and conservative, he gets shit from gay dudes, and that he feels like he's been such a failure at being gay that he's either going to try going straight or kill himself.

    After talking to him, I convinced him to see a counselor to at least work through some of the hatred and anger he's built up to gay people over the years, and to work on the depression. Honestly, the way he's been treated in general, I don't blame him for hating gay peeps, and it sucks that he's been made to feel that sort of animosity towards people that should be the most supportive of outcasts.

    I and other friends have told him to just stay away from gay stuff if it makes him feel that crappy, focus on himself, put himself first, and get things squared away to figure out if maybe being gay is right for him (assuming it's a choice) or if he can be happy alone (since he doesn't feel any connection to gay people anymore).

    Long story short, he feels like he's been pushed out of the gay community because he doesn't fit the gay mold. He thinks that because he doesn't have the right body, right politics, right spiritual beliefs, that he can't be happy as a gay man. I think all that being gay means is that you like other dudes, but I've also seen the laundry list of other items that seem to be required to be a "good gay".

    I try to help him as much as I can, but I can't really put myself in his situation because I'm the type of person to just say "fuck the haters, just be yourself and hang with the people that make you the happiest". But he's worried that if he can't go straight that he's going to be stuck being asexual, being alone, and pretty much not have any sort of physical/intimate relationship with anyone ever again.

    So what do you guys think? He's not a bad looking dude, just has some esteem issues, and only seems to care about that when he's talking about gay dudes, otherwise, he's such a happy and positive dude when he's hanging with me and the other gym crew. He does have to work through the anger, he's talked about wanting to "beat the shit out of some fag", I don't think he would, but just to be that angry isn't good. And he's only down and depressed when he mentions how little attention he gets from other gay dudes, no matter how hard he tries to reach out and make connections.

    90% of the time, he's a great guy to hang out with, just 10% of the time he gets down about his experiences as a gay man. I haven't seen how he interacts with other gay dudes, but when he talks about anything remotely gay, his entire demeanor changes and he just gets quiet and reserved, or when he's been drinking with the crew, he gets aggressive. Like last night my buddy's girlfriend asked if he goes to a local gay club, and he said "Fuck no! I hate gay peeps, I stay away from places like that"

    He's got potential, he's just got the anger to work through for sure, but aside from that, why is this perfectly good dude getting shot down and ignored? He only recently developed the anger since his last ex broke up a few months ago, so the anger wasn't the reason before that.

    I don't know what to tell him. I'd say "so try going straight", but maybe it's not that simple, maybe he can't even change that. So if he's stuck being gay, he's got to accept that and I guess accept the fact that he's going to be alone and looked down on for whatever reason. I don't want him to be depressed anymore and definitely don't want him to turn out violent or suicidal. So I'm coming straight to you guys and asking you what it takes for someone like that to get even a little bit of respect, to get a response to his emails, to get someone to try to be his friend, to get someone to take a shot at being his boyfriend maybe?

    OK, I went on long enough, I think that covers the main points. So help me help my friend out. Thanks!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:22 AM GMT
    Hey MascFit_Littleton, maybe the key here is which gay people. I'm assuming you're a gay people (lol) and you can build him up with some fine words and tell him you're a gay people so they're not what he sees them as. icon_wink.gif

    -Doug
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:34 AM GMT
    Nah, I kinda went a similar route as him, I played around a couple of times back in college, but I figured I was pretty solidly straight. Dick just does about as much for me as pussy does for gay men. So that's why my perspective is "well just avoid them and try to go straight", but he's been deep into it for a hell of a lot longer than a few experimental hookups.

    Hell, to be honest, he's gone over his whole dating history with me, and he's told me that there hasn't been a single positive experience being gay in his life. And that's just sad if it's not a choice. His whole experience has been hook ups and short term relationships, being used, being avoided, being ignored, being treated like shit, and all he wants is someone to love.

    My heart goes out to him it really does, but that's not where I am in my life at this point. College was a long time ago. I don't know any gay peeps I'd recommend he hang out with to see the positive, I don't know where to tell him to go that wouldn't be a meat market or have a negative atmosphere and make him feel worse. Basically, I don't know anywhere he can go to hang out with positive gay peeps who will build him up rather than tear him down.

    If gay peeps were more like the gym crew and I, then he'd have no problem. We don't care what he looks like, what he believes, or what his politics are. We see him as he is, and he's a good guy, a loyal friend, and someone you definitely want in your corner. But for some reason, while we can see all the good in him, gay peeps can't, and all I can do is shake my head and wonder what's wrong with THEM. Yeah, "Jeff" has some stuff to work out, but at the end of the day, even when he works that stuff out, he's still going to be "Jeff".

    I honestly don't think even if he was as positive around gay folks as he is around the crew that it would make a difference to gay people, the way he tells it. They just can't see him for his 90% positives and can only focus on that 10% negative, that is largely caused by their negative treatment of him in the first place. You treat someone like shit long enough, of course they're not going to be too happy with the people that treat them crappy, right?

    Anyway, I see the 90% "Jeff", gay people seem to only see the 10% "Jeff", and like I tell him all the time, that's their loss.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:37 AM GMT
    Wow i know the feeling honestly i am the same way i was called ugly and was the one ppl said look at ur bf to be mean to it hurts cus u already feel rejected by family and shit then the community u like ur rejectyed by tell him to gain confidence in himself and tell the lil widgets, since i cant say the f bomb on here but they deserve it, to kiss his ass tell him to get cocky and say my body might not be like urs but my account surpasses urs tell him to stand tall and make them respect him and kiss his ass in the process. he should be proud of who he is and not let the lil widget fish girls bring him down noone is perfect and while they are concerned with looks and body they will soon be old and all that muscle will fall south then they will see who wants them which will definetly not be the lil twinks they try to impress. tell him to gain a fuck u attitude and work on himself to where he is happy not them. Once he does this he will b the bomb and they will flock to him cus confidence no matter what they say is what make a person attractive and stand out. thats wat i did and even though i am still suicidal it is not over other people thoughts of me cus they dont pay my bills so fuck em.

    p.s. yes it is a block txt so deal with it

    p.s.s i got shit for not being politically correct in my past forums on my messages, so fuck the widgets that got smart shit to say about it

    p.s.s.s I forgot what was gonna go here lol honestly i did lol
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:40 AM GMT
    Well then, you're not gay; we are. Tell him about this site and he's welcome to look us up. There are a lot of great men here, and he doesn't have to get involved in the regular soap operas here. We'd be glad to say hi and talk. Would you?

    -Doug and Bill of meninlove
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:44 AM GMT


    Something reads off to me, about this thread?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:46 AM GMT
    honestly if he is as good as u say i would love to meet him lol and talk and be friends and see where it goes from there. but i was the same way i still get treated like he does and at times i hate gay life cus of the lil widgets that flock around and make it bad but yea tell him to join the site and add me juss let know who he is so we can exchange numbers if we hit it off maybe he could move here or i moe there i am looking to move anyway soon
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:51 AM GMT
    Fenix_Stone saidtell him to gain a fuck u attitude and work on himself to where he is happy not them. Once he does this he will b the bomb and they will flock to him cus confidence no matter what they say is what make a person attractive and stand out.


    Definitely, and that's what me and the crew have been telling him, me especially, because girls can sometimes be as superficial as gay dudes, so I went through similar BS with low confidence, then I changed my look (style), got into sports I enjoy (and got bigger in the process) and now everything I do is for me and not for any girl out there (it's just the cherry on the sundae if it happens).

    I'd rather he just hang out with the crew for a while, feel what it's like to be accepted for who you are, and not just how you look. We egg each other on, we call him "gay" and he calls us shit back. We push each other in the gym and like to hang out after at the bar and just be guys. He is the COOLEST fucker when it's just the crew, and we tell him that.

    But yeah, like I said, he just needs that "fuck the haters" attitude and just do his own thing. If people are too small minded or superficial to accept him for the kick ass bro that he is, then oh well.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:57 AM GMT


    "because girls can sometimes be as superficial as gay dudes,"

    ummm...if that's true why are you here asking us superficial gay dudes for assistance?

    ok, confused now.... -us
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 4:58 AM GMT
    meninlove said Well then, you're not gay; we are. Tell him about this site and he's welcome to look us up. There are a lot of great men here, and he doesn't have to get involved in the regular soap operas here. We'd be glad to say hi and talk. Would you?

    -Doug and Bill of meninlove


    Heh, I just chatted him up and told him, and he said "Fuck that shit, been there and tired of trying to fit in with those assholes"

    He also mentioned a site called connection or something like that, same deal.

    (I'm here because this was one of the sites he mentioned he's met people off of, I figured I'd try this one first and get some feedback for him, or at least some insight how to help him)

    Like I said before, he just gets like that when we talk about gay shit. I don't know what to tell him, I'm pretty sure that means he's not going to rejoin though.

    He's actually kinda pissed at me that I'm asking you guys about this stuff, he thinks I'm wasting my time. I'm hoping he's wrong though.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 5:03 AM GMT
    MascFit_Littleton said
    Fenix_Stone saidtell him to gain a fuck u attitude and work on himself to where he is happy not them. Once he does this he will b the bomb and they will flock to him cus confidence no matter what they say is what make a person attractive and stand out.


    Definitely, and that's what me and the crew have been telling him, me especially, because girls can sometimes be as superficial as gay dudes, so I went through similar BS with low confidence, then I changed my look (style), got into sports I enjoy (and got bigger in the process) and now everything I do is for me and not for any girl out there (it's just the cherry on the sundae if it happens).

    I'd rather he just hang out with the crew for a while, feel what it's like to be accepted for who you are, and not just how you look. We egg each other on, we call him "gay" and he calls us shit back. We push each other in the gym and like to hang out after at the bar and just be guys. He is the COOLEST fucker when it's just the crew, and we tell him that.

    But yeah, like I said, he just needs that "fuck the haters" attitude and just do his own thing. If people are too small minded or superficial to accept him for the kick ass bro that he is, then oh well.



    but still though honestly he is gonna give u guys a fake happy cus i am like that i am still like that even though i have a fuck u attitude now it is hard when ppl ignore u cus for me being in the south white. Cus i am not white i am over looked i did a experiment here where i made a white profile in addition to my profile same everything i was real on mines and a cocky prick on my white one guess which one got 13 hits in juss one hour............. the white one while mines got 13 hits in one week lol but he needs to juss know there is one person out there for him juss dont give up looking and be a lil more into the gay scene.


    Hey group idea for yall why dont u guys take him to a gay bar. even though he says he does not go there he will if his comfort team goes with him. this might give him a small level of confidence to open up. even if he says no the fact you guys though of it will make him feel tons better.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 5:04 AM GMT
    meninlove said

    "because girls can sometimes be as superficial as gay dudes,"

    ummm...if that's true why are you here asking us superficial gay dudes for assistance?

    ok, confused now.... -us


    I'm here because this is one of the sites he mentioned, so I figure if anyone knows why he's being treated like crap or has a good reason to treat him like crap, it'd be someone on here. He's my friend, I'm trying to help him, and he's told me that this site and that connection site were pretty representative of the kind of stuff he's been through.

    Girls can be superficial, that's just how it is. Usually about something more material though. I get a nice new car, and suddenly I'm popular, for example.

    We get more slack on our bodies than gay guys give each other though I guess. When we're working out, he's told me "if I looked like that guy, I'd get more attention" pointing to some roided out or shredded up dude grunting in the corner. The rest of us are all pretty average, and we do just fine in the love department. If I had to look like a fitness model to get even a response to an email, I'd be pretty angry/depressed too I think.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    May 13, 2010 5:05 AM GMT
    i call horse hockey on this thread starter and this thread.

    a search of his username reveals NOTHING.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 5:16 AM GMT
    I've been meaning to do this for a while:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/944832
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 5:23 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidI've been meaning to do this for a while:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/944832


    Thanks Paul, but he's getting help now, so not too worried about that. I keep up with him, make sure things are ok. I was actually there for one of his attempts... was not a good night, first time I've actually cried since my grandma died. Just freaked me out seeing him unconscious on a stretcher.

    That was a couple years ago, and no relapses since then. He took the breakup with his last boyfriend pretty well I guess. They never seemed really close anyway to me. He's more angry than depressed now, which still isn't good in the end.

    I don't want my friend to kill himself over something like this, and I don't want to see him in jail for beating up another gay dude either. For those of you taking my post seriously, I am really thankful for any advice or feedback you can give me to help him out.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 5:36 AM GMT
    I turned it around for myself with a "fuck you" attitude.

    Now, I can say, "On your journey, may you find joy within yourself". And, with a big smile.

    Tell 'em, Lily!

  • Iluros

    Posts: 559

    May 13, 2010 5:42 AM GMT
    Well, you seem like a really good friend, I think. He's lucky to have someone who obviously cares a lot about him.

    Our sexual orientation is not a choice. People like what they like, for whatever reason, there isn't a conscious decision about it being made. Now, if your friend is actually bisexual, he could choose to behave in a heterosexual manner and might be successful at it. But if he's not attracted to women, then trying to go straight is not going to work out for him.

    It's true that being gay is hard. There's a lot of superficiality and negativity to deal with when it comes to clubs and the internet. To some extent, this is also true for straight people. You should tell him that going through life he's going to sift through a lot of people who are negative and superficial, in order to find the good people. Everyone does this in their life, ultimately, though some have more success than others (those who make bad decisions about who they have in their lives have a surplus of drama). The people we surround ourselves with influence us, so we have to learn that there are some people who we simply don't want in our lives.

    There are good gay people out there, even if they're hard to find. What he's doing is pushing himself inward because of feelings of rejection and not belonging on sites like this from some of the members. But withdrawing from the gay community entirely is not going to make him feel any better about himself. His toxic insecurity will continue to eat away at him, and he definitely won't have a chance to come across someone worthwhile. Speaking as someone who has spent many years as a loner I know that pushing people away just confines you to your own dark thoughts. They repeat themselves over and over in a vicious cycle. Only other people can give you perspective and free you of this burden.

    If he can do something to build his confidence (like continue exercising with your group), then eventually he will realize he doesn't really care what other people think. It takes a lot of bravery and maturity to allow yourself to be vulnerable, but that is the step he has to take.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 3:27 PM GMT
    Have your friend pick up a copy of "The Velvet Rage" and discuss it as he reads it with his counselor (a gay one preferably).

    Our hatred and self-loathing as gay men is deeply entrenched in our psyche and it will take some digging to get to it. IMHO, the ones who treat him the way they do are the ones that haven't dealt with their own self hatred. Once your friend finds the sources of his feelings about being gay and how that fits into who he really is, he'll find the things to celebrate about being gay and the people he hangs out with will reflect his new found confidence and self LOVE!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 3:54 PM GMT
    In my opinion, Iluros is correct in what he said above.

    Sounds to me like your bud has some major self-esteem issues. He is way too worried about what other people think of him. He also may have a depression problem.

    I agree there are assholes on this site and many other gay sites - but this is the world. He needs to learn to separate the positives from the negatives, in every aspect of his life. He needs perspective, and serious professional help.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 7:00 PM GMT
    Yeah this is a tough situation to be in...to be the guy you described and being the friend of the guy you described...It really makes you think how no one is perfect and we all have internal issues no matter how good the package may look on the outside. I've had my bouts of low self esteem, but it never got to the point of attempting suicide. My problems pale in comparison to that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 7:18 PM GMT
    Of course gay people are avoiding your friend. They can feel his anger and resentment towards them. If you walk into a gay club with a huge chip on your shoulder, others will sense it, and the insecurity behind it, and they will avoid you. As they will in any social situation. Thus, his belief that guys avoid him becomes self-fulfilling.

    It sounds like your friend has internalized insecurity/depression/anxiety/anger which he is projecting onto gay people. I strongly recommend that he look into cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT), acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT), and mindfulness practice, and that he see a therapist who is trained in those areas. These techniques have been very helpful to me in dealing with my own anxieties and other issues.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 13, 2010 7:18 PM GMT
    His issues aren't about being gay or dealing with gay relationships. They're about self-esteem. That's the root of it all.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 7:32 PM GMT
    MascFit_Littleton said...OK, I went on long enough, I think that covers the main points. So help me help my friend out. Thanks!

    Your friend needs to know that being gay is a wonderful gift, an exceptional gift. I consider it my own greatest asset, and in all immodesty, I have not a few.

    If he's having trouble with his local community, whether gay or straight, he oughta get the Hell out of Dodge. I think what he needs is to spend some time in a predominately gay or gay-friendly community, that will open his eyes, and let him realize his full potential as a gay or bi man. I doubt that's ever gonna happen where he lives now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 7:33 PM GMT
    He's depressed and suicidal. Gay isn't the issue.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 13, 2010 10:00 PM GMT
    Not to come off as to much of an asshole, but your friend needs help; serious Physiological help.
    His being gay has little to do with it; if he were strait he would have the same attitude.
    I know this type of guy; He thinks he should be with the hottest guy on the planet. I had a straight friend that would only date a chick if she could waitress at Hooters and if he was lucky to get such a girl he would end up looking for someone more attractive; not to mention, the physical abuse he would put these woman threw because they weren’t perfect. God forbid someone turns him down; he is god’s gift and you’re an ass if you don’t think so.