Cardio to loose fat and then build or Build to loose fat?

  • Prodij22

    Posts: 2

    Jan 31, 2008 4:50 AM GMT
    Ok guys I have a question. I have been going to the gym now for almost 3weeks now. I have a goal I want to hit, but I dont know what is best for starting out. Should I do nothing but cardio and loose weight to a goal I want, and then start building muscle mass and building my arms and stregnth? Or should I weight train build my body in hope to at the same time loose the excess fat and what not in all areas of my body. Basically what I want is a 32waist, 200lbs, nice size arms, develpoed chest, and abbs, with a nice set of legs. Everyones goal I guess. Where I have started at is a 34waist, about 239lbs, not much muscle, and deff need some help in all areas. Let me know what you guys think. I am going to the gym 4-6x's a week. Any pointers or tips let me know. Thnx guys-
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    Jan 31, 2008 8:36 AM GMT
    los ethe fat first as that is your primary goal and that which will keep you motivated and continuing your good ways. The secondary benefit of this route is if monitoring your food intake and taking the calorie deficit lower you will benefit threefold:

    1) You will be in control of your diet and will have the skills as it were to add the bulk and minimise the increase in body fat per centage which to a degree is inevitable

    2) Glycogen depletion will occur and you will benefit from adding mass quicker as the muscles reload (google glycogen rebound)

    3) Yuo will be able to start adding muscle mass from a much lower caloire starting point

    as for cardio to lose weight dont get me started, work the muscles hard, heavy and to failure with weights and let your diet burn the calories

    Hope that helps and if you need a plan/strategy hit me up
  • BlackJock79

    Posts: 437

    Jan 31, 2008 3:47 PM GMT
    That's what I'm doing. I'm primarily doing cardio until I loose all the fat I can, then I'm going to start weight lifting. I need to post a new picture...
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    Jan 31, 2008 3:49 PM GMT
    don't rely on cardio only to loose the weight. if you build muscle it will continue to burn calories even when you're not working out. cardio burns more calories while you're exercising, but doesn't burn throughout the day like an added pound of muscle does.

    i wouldn't worry so much about numbers, like weight you'd like to lose or the size of your arms, etc. Focus on the changes to your body you can feel (better posture, fiiting into clothes you couldn't before), stuff that makes you feel better about yourself. Numbers can be stressful & discouraging when you don't see them reflect the effort you've put into your workouts.
  • SoDakGuy

    Posts: 1862

    Jan 31, 2008 3:52 PM GMT
    It's LOSE!

    Not LOOSE!!!

    LOSE - take off

    LOOSE - lacking in reticence or power of restraint

    Sorry, sorry. It's a pet peeve of mine.

    Anyway ... continue ...
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    Jan 31, 2008 4:02 PM GMT
    I went from 260 to 170 and now bulked up to 180-185. I did it first with eating, then I moved into Cardio, then I moved into adding weights however I kept the weight relatively light (for me) with higher reps & sets.

    And it' true, the cardio burns at THAT moment where the weight training will maintain the "burning" throughout the day.

  • BlackJock79

    Posts: 437

    Jan 31, 2008 4:06 PM GMT
    SoDakGuy saidIt's LOSE!

    Not LOOSE!!!

    LOSE - take off

    LOOSE - lacking in reticence or power of restraint

    Sorry, sorry. It's a pet peeve of mine.

    Anyway ... continue ...


    icon_lol.gif LOL, I get them mixed up. Kind of like affect and effect and there and their. icon_redface.gif
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    Jan 31, 2008 10:09 PM GMT
    why not cardio to lose weight?

    Well primary reason is you are creating a calorie deficit to shift the stored body fat. Body fat is stubborn and so the body goes for the easiest source of energy available and that would be dietary carbohydrates, stored glycogen, protein, dietary fat and then last but not least body fat.

    OK well its not that slow a reaction time to switch from one to the next but without the stimuli increasing to the muscles then you will lose weight and not fat which is what you are specificaly trying to target. People say but hell yeh look at sprinters, sprinters dont build muscle from running they do it from associated training and they are also not creating a calorie deficit.

    So do yourselves a favour if you feel the urge to run to burn off the fat (after all its all about choice ie eat more train more or eat less train less) and that is in between your cardio days work the muscle hard heavy and to failure.

    Why diet?

    Its calculable, its daily and its consistent. You can create a deficit of 500 calories daily from your diet thats 3500 cals a week aka 1lb of fat

    To do the equivelant with running you will have to do roughly 40 mins plus daily.

    Why not to rely on weights and bulking now to burn the fat?

    Muscle is not a miracle worker you need to be in excess to build muscle and with that unless you again count the calories you will add more fat (highly demotivational. It will also not burn anywhere near the level of fat that is touted around by half the muscle heads out there.
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    Jan 31, 2008 10:11 PM GMT
    I would imagine that loose fat is the worst kind of fat to have.
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    Jan 31, 2008 10:19 PM GMT
    XRuggerATX saidI would imagine that loose fat is the worst kind of fat to have.



    The WORST EVER!!!
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    Feb 01, 2008 3:35 AM GMT
    What I have done is gain weight in the winter (to lift heavy), loose fat in the spring (to show the muscles) and then work to be hard and cut in the summer.

    I'm still lifting heavy through the year but the difference is the diet. Eating two hours a day keeps your energy up, your metabolisim up and keeps your body from going catabolic -so you can lose the fat and build some muscle at the same time. for the average person not competing you should be careful of your caloric intake, for instance if a serving of protein shake says two scoops, only use one scoop. Also, too much protein turns into fat, and a 1/4 cup of any carb is enough per meal or a cup of vegetables is good...this is for the average folks. If you are competing then your caloric intake should be much higher.
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    Feb 01, 2008 3:59 AM GMT
    I'm not really trying to gain muscle, but I can speak from the losing fat standpoint that diet is the most important thing. If you eat the right way then your body will react how it's supposed to. There are other factors such as genetics, but the key for me is always staying one step ahead of hunger (eat to avoid hunger and keep your metabolism going).
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    Feb 01, 2008 10:30 AM GMT
    As said earlier, it would be a good idea for you to do cardio in order to eliminate fat (haven't use neither lose or loose, better not, lol) for 8 to 12 weeks, but afterwards, when you'll change training and diet to take on weight, u'll have to eat more than you spend in energy, and because of that, you'll take some fat again. Just don't be demotivated, you'll just ahve to go for another 8 weeks of cutting fat icon_wink.gif

    A) 8-12 weeks aim: cutting fat
    B) 8-12 weeks aim: adding weight (muscle and fat)
    A) 8-12 weeks aim: cutting fat
    B) ...

    Until you get the results you desire... icon_biggrin.gif
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    Feb 01, 2008 10:51 AM GMT
    pfm has some good advice. I agree with drop the weight fisrt through cardio. Who knows, you may have more muscle under there than you think and you may be happy with just the dropped weight.

    Good luck and dont get discouraged. Keep your chin up and stick with it.
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    Feb 02, 2008 7:52 PM GMT
    when you guys gonna wise up!

    Cardio is extremely inefficient and will do sod all to retain the muscle mass and will not do anything for your heart and lungs over and above a properly constructed weights routine.

    Let the diet do the hard work and you put the hard work in on the resistance training.

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    Feb 02, 2008 7:57 PM GMT
    Finally. I've been quietly watching this now for several days....bfg1 comes to the rescue.

    Endless hours of cardio are beyond stupid. They slow your metabolic rate to a CRAWL (make fat folks fatter). Lean muscle is the ONLY thing that will increase your base metabolic rate as you grow older. PERIOD.
  • drakutis

    Posts: 586

    Feb 02, 2008 8:12 PM GMT
    AARRGGGG!!!!!!
  • drakutis

    Posts: 586

    Feb 02, 2008 8:13 PM GMT
    AARRRGG!!!!!
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    Feb 02, 2008 8:18 PM GMT
    Recent studies have suggested that the majority of fat loss generally occurs within the first 20 minutes of cardio. Going over 20 minutes may well increase a persons chance of catabolizing lean muscle mass in addition to fat. The loss of this muscle mass would then proportionately reduce the body's fat burning potential.
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    Feb 02, 2008 8:22 PM GMT
    SoDakGuy saidIt's LOSE!

    Not LOOSE!!!

    LOSE - take off

    LOOSE - lacking in reticence or power of restraint

    Sorry, sorry. It's a pet peeve of mine.

    Anyway ... continue ...




    whoa, calm down, i was typing fast. christ--
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    Feb 02, 2008 8:25 PM GMT
    genqb said[quote][cite]SoDakGuy said[/cite]It's LOSE!

    Not LOOSE!!!

    LOSE - take off

    LOOSE - lacking in reticence or power of restraint

    Sorry, sorry. It's a pet peeve of mine.

    Anyway ... continue ...




    whoa, calm down, i was typing fast. christ--[/quote]

    You're pretty, you don't need to spell.icon_lol.gif
  • mondschein_us

    Posts: 1

    Feb 02, 2008 10:34 PM GMT
    It's my opinion that the key to losing fat is combining cardio with a high protein diet. As I understand the science, the body uses a hierarchy of sorts as to how it burns calories, resorting to the easiest to burn to the most difficult to burn. This means carbs burn quicker, followed by fat. Since carbs are already in a "sugar" form, there's no transformation required to burn them. Fat must be transformed back into sugars in order to burn. Protein is required to burn fat in the body.

    As some of you have mentioned, there is a high instance of people losing muscle on a high cardio exercise regimen. The key to this is maintaining protein intake. If your protein consumption is not high enough, the body will turn to its only other source of protein to burn the fat - - your muscles. (I'm pretty sure this is the foundation of the Atkins diet.)

    The other side of this is metabolism. Increasing muscle mass will increase metabolism.

    Bottom line for me: Focus on cardio, but not at the expense of building muscle. My suggestion would be to focus on the cardio for the first couple of months, at the same time starting to work on your lifting routine. Once you see the weight coming off, increase the focus on lifting. This may slow down the decrease you see when you stand on the scale, but pay more attention to your measurements instead - how your clothes fit. Don't get stuck focusing on the number. Muscle mass is denser than fat mass, so you may not end up at 200 lbs, but very well may have that 32waist you seek.
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    Feb 03, 2008 4:58 AM GMT
    I just wanted to sincerely Thank each and every one of you whom have posted here! I have learned quite a bit in the last week reading all of the messages! I am currently at the heaviest weight of my life (225 but don't tell anyone). I am approaching 25 quickly and am not too excited about the way my body is currently looking, and this site has helped educate me on proper weight loss and physical fitness techniques/ routines. I am 6ft 6in and would like to drop at least 30 pounds of fat before gaining any muscle. I am walking/ jogging 5-6 times a week for at least 5 miles each time. I have yet to start any type of real excersize though. Your help was and is greatly appreciated, Thanks again!
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    Feb 03, 2008 9:35 AM GMT
    mondschein_us saidIt's my opinion that the key to losing fat is combining cardio with a high protein diet. As I understand the science, the body uses a hierarchy of sorts as to how it burns calories, resorting to the easiest to burn to the most difficult to burn. This means carbs burn quicker, followed by fat. Since carbs are already in a "sugar" form, there's no transformation required to burn them. Fat must be transformed back into sugars in order to burn. Protein is required to burn fat in the body.

    As some of you have mentioned, there is a high instance of people losing muscle on a high cardio exercise regimen. The key to this is maintaining protein intake. If your protein consumption is not high enough, the body will turn to its only other source of protein to burn the fat - - your muscles. (I'm pretty sure this is the foundation of the Atkins diet.)

    The other side of this is metabolism. Increasing muscle mass will increase metabolism.

    Bottom line for me: Focus on cardio, but not at the expense of building muscle. My suggestion would be to focus on the cardio for the first couple of months, at the same time starting to work on your lifting routine. Once you see the weight coming off, increase the focus on lifting. This may slow down the decrease you see when you stand on the scale, but pay more attention to your measurements instead - how your clothes fit. Don't get stuck focusing on the number. Muscle mass is denser than fat mass, so you may not end up at 200 lbs, but very well may have that 32waist you seek.


    well you are kinda on the right track but protein does not magically transform into muscle nor is it a panacea to retain it.

    In the absence of sufficient carbs the body needs an energy source to burn. Protein is not that energy source and whilst its busy converting it its tapping into that readily available source of energy ie glycogen in muscles. As for building or retaining the muscle this will not occur without the muscle being placed under increasing tension so regardless of the amount of protein you put in you will not retain with running, unless you are eating at BMR + activity.

    As I have asid before you can create a dietary deficit daily and keep that up long term, most will not do the same with CV. They will wain they will lose motivation as progress is slow and the reward versus the input simply is not worth it.

    If you like running, by all means do it but dont kid yourself that it is an efficient form of fat loss nor will it give you a good base to build from
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    Feb 03, 2008 4:47 PM GMT
    Hey guys!

    Actually I had a lot of fun the last 5 minutes i spent on reading your posts, but I've learned as well.

    I just wanna share this: I used to be 150 pounds and I felt myself heavy, then i got into gym on a daily routine, with very little cardio, like 20min tops a day, on different stationaries, and I worked muscle lenght and strenght. I tried to follow a diet as well, mostly a lot of proteins like 10 walnuts a day and things like that, and healthy-non-fat carbs, like pasta, and specially not eating after 7pm! Nowadays I'm only 141 pounds, I grew up 1 inch in only 3 weeks! So after all, carbs keep you straight from not fainting or passing out and proteins help you get ripped.

    Guys, do not rely on cardio, there are tons of things that are way more important than cardio to loose weight, trus bfg1, after all, he's got that awesome body for some reason after all! lol

    XOXO