Obama Top Foreign Policy Adviser...Watch Out Boys!

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    Jan 31, 2008 12:16 PM GMT
    Very disturbing little factiod here!

    Barack Obama's top foreign policy adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, was one of the architects of Operation Cyclone which funded Islamic extremists in order to escalate tensions with the Soviet Union.

    It is this very act of horrific foreign policy that has led to Islamic Militants gaining such a strong hold in the Middle East and, according to common belief, eventually leading to the September 11 attacks on the USA.

    This man is Barack Obama's "Advisor" on foreign policy???
    HOLY SHIT!

    I'm not making any attempt to draw connections with the whole Osama/Obama thing. But, this illustrates Obama's serious lack of judgment in picking advisers.

    Here are some Wiki links which detail the facts.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski#Afghanistan

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
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    Jan 31, 2008 12:38 PM GMT
    Here's some video evidence!

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    Jan 31, 2008 9:03 PM GMT
    devildog78 Thanks for this information, My God their all in this mess together aren't they, and this started back with Carter !!!! Did the this Brezinski push for the war in Iraq too? Somehow I've missed so far in my reading whether he backed the war or not. Thanks again for helping us be informed. If you get a chance vote on Moveon.org for who you want them to endorse for the Democratic nominee, you can do it through tomorrow morning !!
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    Jan 31, 2008 9:07 PM GMT
    If this is such big news why hasn't it hit the networks? Hmm.
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    Jan 31, 2008 9:31 PM GMT
    The thing is that 35 years ago encouraging Islamic extremists against the totalitarian and expansionist USSR seemed like a smart move.

    What most foreign policy officials fail to account for is the law of unintended consequences.

    Paraphrasing Newton's law: For each and every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

    This law applies to everything. More importantly, everything you do or don't do is in Newton's definition an 'action'. In other words, by doing nothing you have made a choice and taken an action. This action will have an equal and opposite reaction.

    Everything we do comes with a price.

    It's the smart man who learns from his mistakes, and by ruler, Brzezinski is as smart as a whip.





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    Jan 31, 2008 9:33 PM GMT
    ...and for every hysterical revelation, soon comes a voice of reason.

    Thanks IT Jock.
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    Jan 31, 2008 9:57 PM GMT
    XRuggerATX said...and for every hysterical revelation, soon comes a voice of reason.

    Thanks IT Jock.


    I always wait for ITjock to give his rebuttal. Ahhhh, the voice of reason. IT... you-da-man! icon_wink.gif
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    Jan 31, 2008 10:03 PM GMT
    Itjock
    you are confusing the physicist Newton's third law with the sociologist Merton's Law of Unintended consequences to oversimplify this mistake. Merton's law is really not a law at all but a call to be careful of what else may happen in developing a particular policy. I have read that the CIA refers to this a "blowback" A good 20th century example would be the 18th amendment that banned alcohol.

    That said I still would favor Hillary even though I think she is more of a hawk that Obama.
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    Jan 31, 2008 10:12 PM GMT
    COmale wrote: "you are confusing the physicist Newton's third law with the sociologist Merton's Law of Unintended consequences to oversimplify this mistake. Merton's law is really not a law at all but a call to be careful of what else may happen in developing a particular policy. I have read that the CIA refers to this a "blowback" A good 20th century example would be the 18th amendment that banned alcohol..."

    No - I really wasn't - sorry if I made some people think that they were equivalent. I was vastly over simplifying for time and expediency.

    I DID SAY "Paraphrasing Newton's law"

    I do think they have a cross grain of truth however in that N3 can be applied to socio political conditions. Truth is Truth.

    When we meddle with something sociological - economic - political - there are always consequences. Merton claimed - rightly - that you couldn't always see those consequences.

    I claim, OK, call it 'North's Law' if you like: that the more we meddle, the greater the response, the more we influence, the greater the change, there is a direct proportion between what we do to others and what comes back at us - what they do to us (directly or indirectly).

    Call it Karma if you prefer.

    Back in the 70's - especially in the aftermath of Vietnam - the idea that, 'the enemy of our enemy is our friend', with regard to the Soviet Union. seemed like a good idea. The fact that it would create such a large and different problem 35 years later was probably not considered. Hindsight is 20/20.

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    Jan 31, 2008 11:03 PM GMT
    I've had two friends seriously injured in Afghanistan and several suffer mental and emotional damage due to the war.

    I'm sorry, America's practice of funding terrorist organizations to gain political power, even in cold war times, never looked like a "smart move" to reasonable people. It's an abhorrent foreign policy and we're paying the price for it bigtime.

    It's bloody amazing that somebody would play the devil's advocate over such a debacle.

    You can quote Newton and Merton if you wish. But, when the actions of misguided politicians seriously effect the safety of the republic they represent there's a big problem.

    An hysterical revelation it may be, and rightfully so!
    I have presented factual information. It's up to you to take it to heart or not.

    To realifedad:
    I have not found any information to suggest he supported the Iraq Invasion. From what I've read, he's been a leading critic in regards to the Bush Administration's handling of it.

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    Jan 31, 2008 11:04 PM GMT
    ITJock I do think they have a cross grain of truth however in that N3 can be applied to socio political conditions. Truth is Truth.


    If understanding socio political conditions could be as simple as applying Newton's third law our government would have a much easier task of living in our complicated world. Obama and Clinton should hire Professor Hawking to advise them. We need to meddle in world affairs. Look to the period between the WWI and WWII. We didn't meddle and look what happened in Europe. I agree with IT's premise but I also think there are times we need to meddle. I have yet to hear anything from any candidate that gives me hope they understand this issue. I think Franklin Roosevelt did, but Bill Clinton and George W did not. What does concern me is why give Brzezinski a second chance when he messed up things to begin with.
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    Jan 31, 2008 11:44 PM GMT
    HIllary Clinton also worked for Barry Goldwater.

    My how hindsight changes things.
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    Feb 01, 2008 12:39 AM GMT
    I would have thought that with the just over debacle of the Vietnam war, that medling like Brezinski promoted and Carter signed off on would have appeared as what it was. (just adding to problems and accomplishing nothing) Devildog I think is right on with how badly this f'd up the middle east, and these young men are paying the price for continued CIA meddling. Seems to me that our Gov./CIA/Pentagon instead of learning from mistakes, they keep making them worse and worse. This program of Brezinski's even ended up promoting "POPPY" growing to fund the arms for the AlQuida they started. The First Bush was right in on it with Reagan. read the article on Consortiumnews.com for a continuance of Devildog's subject here and what all its led too. THIS IS A F'N SHAME !!!! I don't think we'll ever end this terrorism until we stop our Gov/CIA/ Pentagon from continuously giving the terrorists reason to hate us.
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    Feb 01, 2008 12:49 AM GMT
    Rugger -- Sadly I don't think we can count on network news for informing the public of anything that has facts that might "bite the (government) hands that feed it" (them) remember they are owned by GE, Disney, and etc. and current policies have fed them very well, as with other major corporations. The only way to get real facts about what's going on is to go to the independent/donation funded investigative news agencies/activists groups, who are trying to alert the public of what is going on behind the seens.
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    Feb 01, 2008 1:00 AM GMT
    Devildog
    I mostly agree with you on your premises. I have to disagree on your use of the word terrorist. This is a loaded word and it should be used judiciously. Im many parts of the world the US is considered to be a terrorist. We have received very low marks as to out treatment of prisoners. I know the founders of modern day Israel were considered to be terrorists by England as I'm sure were George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.


    what we need are leaders who can understand, if that is at all possible, the consequences of their alliances with the various world factions.

    Your a very thoughtful guy. Keep up the good work and I'm sorry about your friends.
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    Feb 01, 2008 1:07 AM GMT
    realifedad said I would have thought that with the just over debacle of the Vietnam war, that medling like Brezinski promoted and Carter signed off on would have appeared as what it was. (just adding to problems and accomplishing nothing) Devildog I think is right on with how badly this f'd up the middle east, and these young men are paying the price for continued CIA meddling. Seems to me that our Gov./CIA/Pentagon instead of learning from mistakes, they keep making them worse and worse. This program of Brezinski's even ended up promoting "POPPY" growing to fund the arms for the AlQuida they started. The First Bush was right in on it with Reagan. read the article on Consortiumnews.com for a continuance of Devildog's subject here and what all its led too. THIS IS A F'N SHAME !!!! I don't think we'll ever end this terrorism until we stop our Gov/CIA/ Pentagon from continuously giving the terrorists reason to hate us.


    Did you ever read Eisenhowers Farewell Address?

    "America's leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment....

    ...But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs -- balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage -- balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration....

    ... This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

    In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

    We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together. ..." -DDE

    A speech I think should be taught to every single school child.



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    Feb 01, 2008 1:50 AM GMT
    Well ITJock, I feel better about what you've said now that you've quoted this which supports what we've been saying about what a hell of a mess our Gov/CIA/Pentagon policies have gotten us in. That speach should be posted on both sides of the presidents and his advisors doors and the Senate/Congress doors. The hell of it is, would they comprehend and follow the admonition to caution contained in the speach? Our younger generation like my children, those their age (20's) and like these guys here, Devildog, and many others that are realizing what our government has done to our nation, have one hell of a job ahead of them to affect a change in the direction of our country. Honestly though This current "REGIME" have so F'd up, that Millions are becoming aware of the Gov's self made debacle, I want to be optimistic for their sakes. But the cost to these fine young people fighting this f'd up war for Bush, is so so terribly overwelming, it just hurts to think of it.
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    Feb 01, 2008 2:01 AM GMT
    COmale,

    Calling them Terrorists is calling a spade a spade.
    I have always said that the United States is the world's biggest terrorist organization. My statements in no way shape or form let the USA off the hook, they implicated the USA if anything.

    ITjock,

    I have read and seen Eisenhower's Military Industrial Complex Address many times. It's prophetic and completely puts our current situation in stark perspective.

    In fact! It was Eisenhower's address which prompted me to abandon my goal of becoming a Marine Corps officer.

    My main reason for starting this thread is to illustrate one thing, all these politicians are corrupt! Even Barack Obama. A man who's spent his career embellishing this image of a caring honest exception to the rule.

    We should all inform each other about the facts our media ignores. Really all our media cares about are creating stories that attack the nations emotions, race, gender, sex, etc. We the people need to engage each other intellectually in order to gain any factual grasp of our world.
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    Feb 01, 2008 2:31 AM GMT
    Your right on it devildog !!!! I totally agree !!! and your last paragraph is exactly what we should all do !! You definately have my respect !!! I hope you can see your way to get into some work that will promote your good reasoning among those around you. KEEP ON TRUCKING !!!
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    Feb 01, 2008 5:14 AM GMT
    Brzesinski also helped normalize relations with China, worked on the Camp David Accord, and limit nuclear arms with the Soviet Union?

    So, you know, the man didn't exactly cause 9/11
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    Feb 01, 2008 8:26 PM GMT
    MunchingZ -- Have you read,and do you know of any articles/books that tells what this Brezinski has been up to over the last ten years or so? It would sure make me feel more comfortable, if there was additional positive facts about him such as the ones you mentioned. Cause at the outset while he may not have been responsible totally for 9-11, but it was that policy he promoted that got "THE BALL ROLLING" in the wrong direction. Let us know if you would, I've done a lot of reading from the Globalresearch.com site and only come up with his early history as above.
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    Feb 01, 2008 9:19 PM GMT
    Barack Obama is woefully lacking in foreign policy experience (he mused about sending in troops to Pakistan to get terrorists), so any help in this respect can only be a good thing.

    Brzezinski is a very bright and pragmatic man. He saw the Soviet Union in the 1970's as the #1 problem in the world, and he was undoubtedly right. Also he is of Polish background I believe so he had no love for the Soviets or Communism.

    Was it a mistake funding the Afghan rebels? At the time no, now perhaps. But arming Osama Bin Laden in the late 70's and 80's to fight the Soviets was not the only reason why 9/11 took place, or even the main reason. There are a whole bunch of factors including the Persian gulf war of 1991 and the basing of the US Military on holy Saudi land. As well the Islamic fundamentalist (like their Christian counterparts) dislike a lot of modern secular society and its' freedoms including the rights and freedoms given to gays.

    They attacked the World Trade Centre not just because of what they saw as aggressive US foreign policy but also because the US is a symbol of the "evil" western society's tolerance of what Islamic fundamentalists despise.
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    Feb 01, 2008 9:45 PM GMT
    He is an active guy. He works towards resolving the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, has been a vocal critic of GW Bush and specifically his Iraq policy, and is a professor at Johns Hopkins University according to his Wiki page.

    Also, I wouldn't say that Obama is woefully lacking in International experience. He sits on the foreign relations committee, has lived abroad in a developing nation (something no other candidate has done), and while campaigning has been brokering a peace deal between Kenya's two main political factions. He is clearly not the most experienced candidate. Compare that to Clinton's experience where she supported DOMA, the Iraq war, and spent several years working for Walmart as a lawyer keeping unions out. If Obama gets the nomination he will pick someone with great foreign policy and defense experience like Joe Biden Wes Clark, or Bill Richardson and the point will be moot really.

    God, I can't wait until this election is over. I can get my life back icon_biggrin.gif
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    Feb 01, 2008 10:10 PM GMT
    MZ, I was going to bring up Wes Clark. While he's had close ties to the Clintons, I think he's waiting to see who gets the nod, in case he'd be considered for VP.
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    Feb 01, 2008 10:52 PM GMT
    A President should seek advice from people who have expertise in a particular field. One hopes that the President would have the judgment to listen to different points of view and make his own decision. In the 70's most opinion, right or left, in the country supported aid to the Afghan mujaheddin against the Soviet invaders. Radical or fundamentalist Islam wasn't in the picture.

    Brzezinksi was never one of my favorite thinkers, but he is far from the only person who was ever wrong about an issue.