1947-1948: Arabs reject compromise and attack Israel

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    May 25, 2010 3:48 AM GMT
    In another topic, Samer regurgitates an old lie:

    sxydrkhair> Israel started the war with many Arab countries and stealing lands from Palestinians from the beginning of the conflict. Read the history.

    Calibro> israel was attacked by all of its neighbors first.

    The historical record (when Samer isn't vandalizing Wikipedia entries to conform with "the history") confirms Calibro's statement. But what is more interesting is that the last time Samer perpetrated this lie and I corrected him, he went on to explain/rationalize/justify why the Arabs attacked Israel.

    This is a typical pattern of Samer's lies:

    SDH lead-off lie> Israel started the war

    SDH follow-up lie> The Arabs were justified in starting the war because [insert new lie here]
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    May 25, 2010 3:54 AM GMT
    Let's examine the historical record.
    First some background:

    "Palestine" (the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish homeland) had first been partitioned in 1922-23. The eastern "half" (78%), located across (trans) the Jordan River, was made into an exclusive Arab state (no Jews allowed). Trans-Jordanian Palestine gained independence in 1946 as Trans-Jordan and (after seizing territory west of the river) would rename itself simply as "Jordan".

    The western "half" (22%) was allocated to a Jewish homeland and it is this "half" that was again partitioned (this time by the UN) in 1947. The UN Partition compromise (UNGAR 181) gave Jews 54% of this 22% (i.e. 12%) of the land - 85% of which was the Negev desert. Jews constituted the majority of the population here.

    Under the plan, the other 46% of the Jewish "half" would become another Arab state. Jerusalem (which also had a Jewish majority) would remain an international city, not part of either state but with free access.

    Upon the passing of this Resolution, the Jewish Agency accepted it and Jews danced in the streets.

    Rejecting compromise, the Arab reaction was very different.

    Arab League Secretary, Azzam Pasha (16 Sep. 1947):
    The Arab world is not in a compromising mood. It's likely... that your plan is rational and logical, but the fate of nations is not decided by rational logic. Nations never concede; they fight. You won't get anything by peaceful means or compromise. You can, perhaps, get something, but only by the force of your arms. We shall try to defeat you. I am not sure we'll succeed, but we'll try. We were able to drive out the Crusaders, but on the other hand we lost Spain and Persia. It may be that we shall lose Palestine.

    Note the comparison of "Palestine" to other conquered and lost Arab colonial acquisitions (Spain and Persia) as well as the admission that the UN partition plan was "rational and logical".

    They didn't really imagine that they might "lose 'Palestine'", thus once they did the cavalier attitude disappeared and they became hell-bent on its reconquest.


    Trygve Lie, the UN Secretary General:
    From the first week of December 1947, disorder in Palestine had begun to mount. The Arabs repeatedly had asserted that they would resist partition by force. They seemed to be determined to drive that point home by assaults upon the Jewish community of Palestine.


    John Bagot Glubb, the British Commander of the Arab Legion:
    Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria.... They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine.

    Note his reference to the "Arabs of Palestine", not "Palestnians".


    The UN Palestine Commission reported to the Security Council on 16 Feb. 1948:
    Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.


    Jamal Husseini didn't attempt to hide the known truth when he addressed the Security Council:
    The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world we were going to fight.


    Andrei Gromyko, the Soviet delegate, told the Security Council on 29 May 1948:
    the Arab states... organized the invasion of Palestine.


    On 15 May 1948, Arab League Secretary General Abdul Razek Azzam Pasha explained the Arab intentions:
    a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.


    The Arabs rejected compromise and peaceful coexistence and started the war.
    Not to defend Arabs but to "throw the Jews into the sea".
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    May 25, 2010 7:07 AM GMT
    Just to make clear the deviousness of Samer's lie, it is parallel to claiming that the US started the war against Japan during WW II (well, to make the analogy better, the Japanese would have had to issue endless threats of how they were going to destroy the US and perpetrated more than one attack).

    Now imagine you point out to Samer that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor pre-dated any US attack on Japanese forces. Caught in his lead-off lie, ponder that he pitches this follow-up lie: "Japan attacked Pearl Harbor to protect Japanese Americans from ethnic cleansing lest they be put in internment camps. We can see how evil/racist the US was by the number of Japanese killed and raped during the war... which proves that the Japanese were justified in attacking the US."

    If Samer (and Ian) had a legitimate argument, would they resort to such spam propaganda lies-for-the cause, vacuous soundbites and endless sloganeering?
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    May 26, 2010 11:08 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 saidJust to make clear the deviousness of Samer's lie, it is parallel to claiming that the US started the war against Japan during WW II (well, to make the analogy better, the Japanese would have had to issue endless threats of how they were going to destroy the US and perpetrated more than one attack).

    Now imagine you point out to Samer that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor pre-dated any US attack on Japanese forces. Caught in his lead-off lie, ponder that he pitches this follow-up lie: "Japan attacked Pearl Harbor to protect Japanese Americans from ethnic cleansing lest they be put in internment camps. We can see how evil/racist the US was by the number of Japanese killed and raped during the war... which proves that the Japanese were justified in attacking the US."

    If Samer (and Ian) had a legitimate argument, would they resort to such spam propaganda lies-for-the cause, vacuous soundbites and endless sloganeering?


    I think you're caught in an endless cycle of facing off against someone who is a) none too bright b) a pathological liar or c) a disturbing combination of both a and b.

    I will not pretend to be a scholar on the subject and I do not fall agressively behind either camp on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I have seen people with both points of view make logical and/or impassioned arguments. However, your favorite sparring partner in these threads seems to start out with a declaration of that he wants everyone to believe and then attempts to fabricate the history to support this. When caught in this, he changes the story like he never told the lie in the first place. To be honest, the entire process has become tedious to watch. I can actually respect people on both sides of the argument if they keep to the facts or at least their obviously partisan interpretation of them. You can be a rabid Zionist or think the sun rises and shines out of Ahmadinejad's asshole, just be consistent in your arguments. If you're pushing made up bullshit, don't backtrack and tweak the story when someone calls you on it. Own it or shut the fuck up.
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    May 26, 2010 11:20 PM GMT
    Why did so many Jews return to Palestine before WWII?

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    May 26, 2010 11:41 PM GMT
    conscienti1984 saidWhy and how was the state of Israel formed?


    Regardless of whether you feel the establishment of Israel was justified or that that establishment provoked its neighbors into attacking it, the fact remains that Samer lied about who started the shooting war first to support his argument: Israel Bad, Palestine Good. If that's your point of view, you have as much right to it as someone does to the opposing one. However, continually making shit up rather that working within the framework of reality to make your arguments seems to be c4's objection to this person on this topic.
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    May 26, 2010 11:46 PM GMT
    GuerrillaSodomite said
    conscienti1984 saidWhy and how was the state of Israel formed?


    Regardless of whether you feel the establishment of Israel was justified or that that establishment provoked its neighbors into attacking it, the fact remains that Samer lied about who started the shooting war first to support his argument: Israel Bad, Palestine Good. If that's your point of view, you have as much right to it as someone does to the opposing one. However, continually making shit up rather that working within the framework of reality to make your arguments seems to be c4's objection to this person on this topic.


    I tweaked my question a little bit.

    I have a hard time to support Israel, but I deplore the conduct of Palestinian terrorists. I do not understand why those two groups of people cannot get along.

    And no, I do not think highly of Samer... but I think it is foolish to blindly support Israel like some politicians would like to have the USA do.
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    May 27, 2010 12:01 AM GMT
    conscienti1984 said
    GuerrillaSodomite said
    conscienti1984 saidWhy and how was the state of Israel formed?


    Regardless of whether you feel the establishment of Israel was justified or that that establishment provoked its neighbors into attacking it, the fact remains that Samer lied about who started the shooting war first to support his argument: Israel Bad, Palestine Good. If that's your point of view, you have as much right to it as someone does to the opposing one. However, continually making shit up rather that working within the framework of reality to make your arguments seems to be c4's objection to this person on this topic.


    I tweaked my question a little bit.

    I have a hard time to support Israel, but I deplore the conduct of Palestinian terrorists. I do not understand why those two groups of people cannot get along.

    And no, I do not think highly of Samer... but I think it is foolish to blindly support Israel like some politicians would like to have the USA do.


    I think blind support is never a good thing and US influence could be used to motivate more compromise while still being supportive of a long term ally. However, it takes two to compromise and we've seen it all fall apart time and time again. Maybe the concept of peaceful coexistence is a complete pipe dream.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    May 27, 2010 12:15 AM GMT
    Israel now, Israel tomorrow, Israel forever.


    35d98uc.jpg
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    May 27, 2010 12:28 AM GMT
    GuerrillaSodomite said
    conscienti1984 said
    GuerrillaSodomite said
    conscienti1984 saidWhy and how was the state of Israel formed?


    Regardless of whether you feel the establishment of Israel was justified or that that establishment provoked its neighbors into attacking it, the fact remains that Samer lied about who started the shooting war first to support his argument: Israel Bad, Palestine Good. If that's your point of view, you have as much right to it as someone does to the opposing one. However, continually making shit up rather that working within the framework of reality to make your arguments seems to be c4's objection to this person on this topic.


    I tweaked my question a little bit.

    I have a hard time to support Israel, but I deplore the conduct of Palestinian terrorists. I do not understand why those two groups of people cannot get along.

    And no, I do not think highly of Samer... but I think it is foolish to blindly support Israel like some politicians would like to have the USA do.


    I think blind support is never a good thing and US influence could be used to motivate more compromise while still being supportive of a long term ally. However, it takes two to compromise and we've seen it all fall apart time and time again. Maybe the concept of peaceful coexistence is a complete pipe dream.


    Are there no reasonable Palestinians? Or rather, are there no reasonable Palestinians with solid public support? Sad. Obviously Israel is not going away... nor should it at this time in history... but I think it's wise to question why that piss-hole territory in the Middle East has caused so much violence and trouble (and wise to study history).

    Can it be said the conflict boils down to religious differences?
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    May 27, 2010 1:22 AM GMT
    The Zionist infiltrated Palestine at the end of the Ottoman Empire and took the land the Palestinians had been living on for millennia. And the British let them. The Palestinians had no say in the matter.
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    May 27, 2010 2:02 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidIsrael now, Israel tomorrow, Israel forever.



    You seem to operate under the notion that since Israel is more open to gays, that it should be supported. Interestingly, Israel operates a government that imposes apartheid-like policies against hundreds of thousands of people within its borders. Just ask any of the hundreds of people who've died trying to enter Israel from the WB, who were denied entry because they are Palestinian.... and who thus die because they cannot get proper medical attention. Just look at the "security fence" which is really a wall that cuts off thousands of Palestinians from important resources, which has split numerous villages and towns in half, making even the simplest commute down a road impossible.

    Furthermore, Israel - a NATION which is given billions in foreign aid by the United States - is accused of numerous WAR CRIMES (Using illegal White Phosphorous Bombs in Gaza, Cluster Bombs in Lebanon, Killing individuals in Gaza with white flags - according to a report by Human Rights Watch.

    "The Human Rights Watch report Precisely Wrong focused on six Israeli drone strikes. Based on interviews with victims and witnesses, investigations of the attack sites, IDF and media reports on the fighting, and in one case IDF video footage of the attack, Human Rights Watch determined that the Israeli military directed its strikes at individuals who were civilians. In none of the cases did Human Rights Watch find evidence that Palestinian fighters were present in the immediate area of the attack at the time."

    Anyway.... I'm not going to list more and more of Israel's human rights violations (remember, they are the NATION that is occupying another group of people, whereas Israel makes sure to ruin any efforts of the PA to be effective or powerful).... you have google. Look up the DOZENS of UN security council resolutions that Israel is in violation of. Look up the history of the Haganah and Irgun, which were gangs that forced almost a million people out of their homes by force and by threat....

    If you consider yourself on the side of Human Rights, you'll see that Israel's record is smeared with a lot more blood than you could even fathom.

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    May 27, 2010 3:40 AM GMT
    ZbmwM5 said
    Webster666 saidIsrael now, Israel tomorrow, Israel forever.


    You seem to operate under the notion that since Israel is more open to gays, that it should be supported. Interestingly, Israel operates a government that imposes apartheid-like policies against hundreds of thousands of people within its borders.


    Yeah and the US doesn't. That's why they never made Indian reservations to shove Indians into remote territories.

    Gay Palestinians flee to Israel for a better life. That should tell you the comparison of how Palestine treats people compared to Israel.
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    May 27, 2010 3:44 AM GMT
    Caslon14000 saidThe Zionist infiltrated Palestine at the end of the Ottoman Empire and took the land the Palestinians had been living on for millennia. And the British let them. The Palestinians had no say in the matter.


    Russia, Germany, Spain, Iran, Egypt, Morocco and a slew of other Muslim and Christian nations routinely discriminated and murdered Jews in mass for a long time. The Jews finally said, "fuck this shit we need our own fucking country." No matter where the Jews made their country they would have been hated. So they figured what better location than where we came from.

    I blame Britain for drawing the boundaries and also blame surrounding Muslim countries for invading Israel, which led Israel to take more land. That's what happens when you win wars assholes...just look at the American Civil War. The Union took the Confederates land...and you still see dumbass white folk claiming they're a Confederacy. Just look at the American-Mexican war. America took a shitload away from California. In fact they took Arizona. In fact, if Israel wants to give "Palestine" to "Palestinians" then I think white people should get the fuck out of Arizona and give it back to the Mexicans.
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    May 27, 2010 4:16 AM GMT
    JakeBenson said
    ZbmwM5 said
    Webster666 saidIsrael now, Israel tomorrow, Israel forever.


    You seem to operate under the notion that since Israel is more open to gays, that it should be supported. Interestingly, Israel operates a government that imposes apartheid-like policies against hundreds of thousands of people within its borders.


    Yeah and the US doesn't. That's why they never made Indian reservations to shove Indians into remote territories.

    Gay Palestinians flee to Israel for a better life. That should tell you the comparison of how Palestine treats people compared to Israel.


    So you're saying that we shouldnt hold people up to a higher standard than that? lol... So, because the US stole land, used their own methods of terror and deceit to grab land from the Indians, that its ok? That's pretty fucking sad. The difference, the huge and sad difference, is that the memory and experience of those thousands of Palestinians who were forced out of their homes illegally with the creation of Israel has not yet been extinguished.

    The US was far more successful in subjugating and extinguishing a beautiful set of cultures that flourished across America. And what happened with the Native Americans was awful. But no one knows and no one gives a shit because we moved them out.... out of sight, out of mind. And it remains that way to this day. The reservations are terrible, alcoholism, poverty, lack of education. But who cares? Its just a few people in Wyoming. icon_rolleyes.gif

    The Palestinians are fighting for their lives and for the land that they lost and their dignity, which has been stripped mostly by the cruel actions of others who stole homes that were not theirs.

    Youre right that colonization is very much at the root of the problem. The land wasn't for Britain to dole out as they pleased.... And FYI, there was no problem in the holy land with Jews and Muslims living side by side, until EUROPEANS started immigrating there illegally (against Britain's own laws).

    Again, the whole idea of supporting Israel because they are friendlier to gays is pretty hypocritical if you ask me. Israel as a NATION commits atrocious war crimes and human rights violations that are unspeakable. These crimes have been responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians.... their actions affect thousands of people, not just a subset that you identify with. All of this happens courtesy of your tax dollars, to boot.
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    May 27, 2010 5:02 AM GMT
    ZbmwM5 said
    JakeBenson said
    ZbmwM5 said
    Webster666 saidIsrael now, Israel tomorrow, Israel forever.


    You seem to operate under the notion that since Israel is more open to gays, that it should be supported. Interestingly, Israel operates a government that imposes apartheid-like policies against hundreds of thousands of people within its borders.


    Yeah and the US doesn't. That's why they never made Indian reservations to shove Indians into remote territories.

    Gay Palestinians flee to Israel for a better life. That should tell you the comparison of how Palestine treats people compared to Israel.


    So you're saying that we shouldnt hold people up to a higher standard than that? lol... So, because the US stole land, used their own methods of terror and deceit to grab land from the Indians, that its ok? That's pretty fucking sad. The difference, the huge and sad difference, is that the memory and experience of those thousands of Palestinians who were forced out of their homes illegally with the creation of Israel has not yet been extinguished.

    Oh the horrible memories of Israel fixing up Gaza and then giving it to the Palestinians. Yes they must be so tortured as they produce like 9 babies per family. Meanwhile somewhere on a reservation in the US there's thousands of drunken Indians stuck on reservations made by white people still intent on seeing them drown in their own misery.

    ZbmwM5 said
    The US was far more successful in subjugating and extinguishing a beautiful set of cultures that flourished across America. And what happened with the Native Americans was awful. But no one knows and no one gives a shit because we moved them out.... out of sight, out of mind. And it remains that way to this day. The reservations are terrible, alcoholism, poverty, lack of education. But who cares? Its just a few people in Wyoming. icon_rolleyes.gif

    If you actually look at maps you'll notice far more reservations than just on Wyoming. And why don't people care? Because Native Americans are in remote areas. Meanwhile Israel puts Palestinians on mainland. You know the whole bottom half of Israel is just bullshit sand. If Israel was half as bad as the US they'd throw the Palestinians into the desert.

    ZbmwM5 said
    The Palestinians are fighting for their lives and for the land that they lost and their dignity, which has been stripped mostly by the cruel actions of others who stole homes that were not theirs.

    hahahahaha fighting for their lives as they make 9 babies per family? Oh that's classic. Terrorist organizations hide next to civilians so when Israelis target them they incidentally kill those civilians and then Palestinians cry to the world, "they killed our babies such savages waaaaa give us aid money so we can build rockets." Meanwhile Israelis survive attacks because they built bomb shelters. You know what's cruel? Launching rockets into Israel unprovoked.

    ZbmwM5 said
    Youre right that colonization is very much at the root of the problem. The land wasn't for Britain to dole out as they pleased.... And FYI, there was no problem in the holy land with Jews and Muslims living side by side, until EUROPEANS started immigrating there illegally (against Britain's own laws).

    Are you talking about the holocaust survivors who were still discriminated against and routinely beaten in "post Nazi" Germany? Or the Russian Jews who were beaten and murdered in Russia during the Pogroms? Because if I were a Jew at that time I'd illegal move out of my own country so I could SAVE MY FUCKING LIFE.

    But yeah Europe fucked this whole current situation up. We have a compromise there.

    ZbmwM5 said
    Again, the whole idea of supporting Israel because they are friendlier to gays is pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

    They are also friendlier to women and even friendlier to "enemies." There's 20% non-Jews living in Israel. I don't think there's any Israelis living in Palestine. They'd be stoned or blown up. Take a vacation to Israel and then Palestine. See what happens when your fag hag wears a bikini on the beach. ;)

    ZbmwM5 saidIsrael as a NATION commits atrocious war crimes and human rights violations that are unspeakable.

    Israel just wants to be left alone but terrorist organizations from Muslim countries nearby continuously blow shit up, steal Israeli soldiers, and then hide in civilian areas. I bet you if Muslims left Israel alone then it wouldn't be building just a huge military to keep itself safe from future Muslim terrorist attacks.

    ZbmwM5 saidThese crimes have been responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians.... their actions affect thousands of people, not just a subset that you identify with. All of this happens courtesy of your tax dollars, to boot.

    Good I'm glad I pay money to give gays and women their rights in a foreign country that contributes so much to science and research. Moreover, US gives money to Palestinians to continue their education, which I also support.
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    May 27, 2010 5:23 AM GMT
    JakeBenson... no offense, your whole viewpoint reeks of someone who doesnt read anything on the subject. You sound like you watch the soundbites on FOX..... Your whole nonsense about "they have 9 babies and terrorists live right next to them" is pure propaganda that you've swallowed like a chump. Stop watching TV and read some books, dude.

    "I don't think there's any Israelis living in Palestine. They'd be stoned or blown up. Take a vacation to Israel and then Palestine."

    Um, what do you think the whole issue about the SETTLEMENTS is about? Israelis in the West Bank. Ie... land grabs to make it more difficult for peace to be achieved.

    "Israel just wants to be left alone but terrorist organizations from Muslim countries nearby continuously blow shit up, steal Israeli soldiers, and then hide in civilian areas. I bet you if Muslims left Israel alone then it wouldn't be building just a huge military to keep itself safe from future Muslim terrorist attacks."

    lol. Seriously... do the math. People think Palestinians are going around killing Israelis left right and center. Reality is that more than 6 times as many Palestinians have been (since the second intifada), and continue to be killed by Israel's military incursions - over 6,000 people. Who gives a shit, you dont - because like a little sheep, you see them all as terrorists. Israel does not want peace... why? They dont need it. With our support, they can continue to do whatever the hell they please.

    They talk about wanting safety from the Holocaust, and how terrible it was (which it was), but then go and steal peoples homes, kill them and commit war crimes - as a nation. That's smearing the names of the innocent people who died in Nazi camps, and to use THAT history to commit atrocities is beyond reprehensible.
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    May 27, 2010 5:49 AM GMT
    Honestly, Israel shouldn't exist. It was land stolen, to establish a Zionist state.
    Much like America was created by killing all the natives.


    With that being said........
    Israel is a rad place with sexy homo guys and a more progressive lifestyle then the Middle East in general.


    Still, it doesn't justify stealing land just because Israel is kickass country.
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    May 27, 2010 6:23 AM GMT
    Caslon14000 saidThe Zionist infiltrated Palestine at the end of the Ottoman Empire and took the land the Palestinians had been living on for millennia. And the British let them. The Palestinians had no say in the matter.


    They did not "infiltrate" and "take" the land. They BOUGHT it. Much of it from absentee landlords. Yes, people living there were displaced as a result, but there was nothing illegitimate about the process. If you're going to call that theft, then all of Capitalism is theft.

    You see, the problem here is that the Palestinians have a perfectly understandable and legitimate reason to be angry, and yet the Jews did nothing wrong. Then the Jews become the target of that anger, and the endless cycle of rage and revenge begins.

    There was no original villain. Just hurt which has led to more hurt.
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    May 27, 2010 6:24 AM GMT
    bboi saidHonestly, Israel shouldn't exist. It was land stolen, to establish a Zionist state.
    Much like America was created by killing all the natives.


    With that being said........
    Israel is a rad place with sexy homo guys and a more progressive lifestyle then the Middle East in general.


    Still, it doesn't justify stealing land just because Israel is kickass country.


    It was not stolen. It was purchased legally. See my previous post.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    May 27, 2010 6:36 AM GMT
    bboi saidHonestly, Israel shouldn't exist. It was land stolen, to establish a Zionist state.
    Much like America was created by killing all the natives.


    With that being said........
    Israel is a rad place with sexy homo guys and a more progressive lifestyle then the Middle East in general.


    Still, it doesn't justify stealing land just because Israel is kickass country.


    Actually, the U.S. stole Hawaii more than Israel stole their land. Israel was given land that was already occupied, but those who occupied did not have control over the land. Does that suck, yes. The way America purchased the Louisiana Territory from France is the way Jews inherited Palestine and renamed Israel from Great Britain. Furthermore, full control over the territory occurred after the Arab League and Arab Higher Committee rejected the partition plan from the UN and Jewish groups seized the Palestinian land after the Arab groups began attacking.
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    May 27, 2010 6:40 AM GMT
    Honestly I took a course on the Arab/Israeli conflict.

    I can say from A LOT of studying and research from accredited sources, the fault of this matter is 50/50. Either the Arabs fucked up this time or it was the Israelis.

    No side is better than the other. Both have made problems worse.
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    May 27, 2010 7:04 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair said
    MenschPress said
    Caslon14000 saidThe Zionist infiltrated Palestine at the end of the Ottoman Empire and took the land the Palestinians had been living on for millennia. And the British let them. The Palestinians had no say in the matter.


    They did not "infiltrate" and "take" the land. They BOUGHT it. Much of it from absentee landlords. Yes, people living there were displaced as a result, but there was nothing illegitimate about the process. If you're going to call that theft, then all of Capitalism is theft.

    You see, the problem here is that the Palestinians have a perfectly understandable and legitimate reason to be angry, and yet the Jews did nothing wrong. Then the Jews become the target of that anger, and the endless cycle of rage and revenge begins.

    There was no original villain. Just hurt which has led to more hurt.


    Jews owned less than 7% of the land while the rest owned by Palestinians and others. They were driving out of their land by forced.

    How come you never talk about Zionist terrorist groups like the Haganah, the Irgun, the Lehi and the Palmah?


    Excuse me, are you disputing anything I just said? I can't tell.

    Jews did indeed own less than 7% of the land prior to 1948. Yet they suffered more than 20 years of Arab violence and attacks up to that point. I am trying to explain SOME of that anger behind those attacks being due to having been displaced from the land they had been living on. I don't know where the rest of the anger came from. Just general hatred of Jews?

    The Haganah was a defense force created by Jewish settlers to defend themselves against persistent Arab attacks.

    How come you never talk about Arab slaughters of Jews?

    You see? If it's the enemy, it's "terrorist"; if it's your side, it's "defense". Let's not play that game, okay?

    I said that the Palestinians have a legitimate and understandable reason to be angry (because they were displaced from land they had lived on), and YET the Jews did nothing wrong (they bought the land legally). That is a statement which is fair to BOTH groups. Do you dispute it?
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    May 27, 2010 7:06 AM GMT
    Israel doesn't teach it's citizens to hate Palestinians. Can't say the same for Palestinians. From the guardian.

    Walt Disney's daughter today described Hamas as "pure evil" for creating a television show in which a Mickey Mouse-style character encourages violent resistance to Israel and the US. The al-Aqsa television station of Hamas, which dominates the Palestinian government, started showing Tomorrow's Pioneers last month. It is hosted by a presenter called Farfur, who dresses in a Mickey Mouse suit. He advises children to drink their milk as well as encouraging what Israeli critics have described as "hate-filled propaganda" against the "Zionist occupation" of Palestine.

    In one clip which has appeared on YouTube, a young viewer speaking to Farfur by telephone recites a poem which includes the lines: "Rafah sings 'Oh, oh' Its answer is an AK-47". As the poem is being read out, Farfur pretends to shoot an assault rifle. Another child tells Farfur: "It is the time of death, we will fight a war".

    Today, Diane Disney Miller, 73, attacked the appropriation of Mickey Mouse, the comic character created in 1928 that became the Walt Disney company's most familiar icon. Ms Miller, who is the only surviving child of Walt Disney, who died in 1966, told the New York Daily News: "Of course I feel personal about Mickey Mouse, but it could be Barney as well.

    "It's not just Mickey, it's indoctrinating children like this, teaching them to be evil. The world loves children and this is just going against the grain of humanity ... What we're dealing with here is pure evil and you can't ignore that."

    In the show, Farfur's co-host is a young girl called Saraa who speaks about the struggle against Israel and the US. Farfur tells children they must pray in the mosque five times a day until there is "world leadership under Islamic leadership". The clip on YouTube includes a call for the US to pull out of Iraq and criticism of the US president, George Bush, and the US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice.

    Israeli National News criticised the show, which it says broadcasts from Gaza via satellite to the Arab world, describing it as "teaching kids to hate and kill".


    Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/may/09/usa.israel



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 27, 2010 7:26 AM GMT
    luvitohateit saidHonestly I took a course on the Arab/Israeli conflict.

    I can say from A LOT of studying and research from accredited sources, the fault of this matter is 50/50. Either the Arabs fucked up this time or it was the Israelis.

    No side is better than the other. Both have made problems worse.


    Exactly... and they will continue to do so, if they cannot recognize the simple fact you have just stated.