"Peace activist" Muslims attack Israeli soldiers on ships

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 31, 2010 11:06 PM GMT
    Seriously fuck you guys if you think these were peace activists. I'm tired of this anti-Israel propaganda on Real Jock. Look at the fucking videos. These were not peaceful activists. The videos show they're violent. What do you expect Israeli soldiers to do when they get beat and stabbed? Just stand there? If this were the US invading a "peaceful" ship "sending aid" after it said no it has to go through the US first, they'd fucking bomb the shit out of those ships if not fuck everyone up on it.

    Caesarea4 saidRight.
    Here is the video evidence - showing that these "civilian", "humanitarian", "peace activists" and fraudulent "aid workers" actually began the violence:










    Thanks C4 for showing these. But I need to start a thread highlighting Pro-Israel because there's too much Anti-Israel shit in here.

    Here's another video that was original censored.

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    May 31, 2010 11:18 PM GMT
    Don't you understand? People died.
  • gaydocalex

    Posts: 80

    Jun 01, 2010 12:11 AM GMT
    Thank you JAKEBENSON for being a rare voice of reason after this horrible event. The Israeli army should never has allowed themselves to be in that position. It was thoroughly predictable. But the pictures dont lie. These soldiers were ambushed boarding a ship which was illegally crossing into Israel's territorial waters while defying Israeli demands to dock and unload under supervision.

    Israel has the right and responsibility to block weapons shipments from being smuggled into enemy territory. Hamas territory is most decidedly enemy territory and the Israelis have to defend themselves.

    Clearly the Palestinian version of Israelis shooting indiscriminately at civilians just is not true. Any attempt to make it true will only discredit those who lie so blatantly.

    These "peace activists" will surely be exposed as the warmongers and terror sympathizers that they are. I would not be surprised if they do find a weapons stash in those ships, though even these monsters from Europe would probably not be so stupid. They got what they wanted, an Israeli response which resulted in 9 deaths (martyrs for their sick cause).

    I hope the gay community understands how much freedom there is to be gay in Israel compared to ANY muslim or Arab country. When praying for the downfall of democratic Israel, be careful what you wish for... if it comes true, the main barrier to Arab/muslim expansionism and repression (Israel) will be gone.

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    Jun 01, 2010 2:39 AM GMT
    TigerTim saidDon't you understand? People died.


    Don't you understand not to cross borders? If a country warns you NOT to come into the country or territory, then DON'T go into it.

    Don't get me wrong I don't want to see Palestinian civilians suffer. I think they need food, aid, supplies, etc. But a ship of arrogant assholes claiming they have authority to go wherever they want and surpass laws of the land has consequences, especially when they start punching and stabbing authority figures.

    Hey, let's try this in other countries. Let's take a ship to RUSSIA to give "aid" to some minority group. At the same time let's film ourselves saying "We'll overcome Russia we're warriors YARRRRR!" Nevermind the Russian laws that state that supplies have to go through CUSTOMS first for inspection. Because we're "activists" so we can go wherever we want and bypass laws, and especially stab any Russians that come on the ship without expecting any ramifications whatsoever.

    No. It doesn't work that way.
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    Jun 01, 2010 4:06 AM GMT
    The loss of life is, of course, regrettable.

    The flotilla stated its intention of running a military blockade, illegally entering a closed military zone and refused to change course.
    International law does not require Israel to wait until the boat enters its territorial waters before it can respond.
    So all those making an issue that this happened in "international waters" are blathering needlessly - but par for the course.

    Note further that Israel said it would allow the aid to go through normal channels, inviting the flotilla to dock at the port in Ashdod. The "relief workers" refused exposing that their objective wasn't to deliver "aid" to Gaza but to make a political scene. (Some have claimed they don't trust Israel to deliver the supplies. Even ignoring this nonsense - Israel channels more humanitarian aid to Gaza than has been sent to Haiti, which has 6x the population - they could have sent the aid via Egypt, too)

    As AussieBody pointed out:
    http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/hamas_e108.htm

    || At 13:30 hours on Sunday, May 30, IHH head Bülent Yildirim was interviewed on board the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara. He was holding a small child at the time. He said that children had been brought aboard the ships as another means of preventing Israel from attacking. In our assessment, the children will be exploited for propaganda and to deter Israeli security forces from attacking the activist passengers.

    Ah, the familiar use of children as human shields, only to then cynically fault others if these children are harmed.
    Where is the love...?


    || He also said that while their resistance would be nonviolent, they would not allow Israeli soldiers to board the ships.... The flotilla’s organizers said they wanted the confrontation to take place during the day so that the media could document it for global distribution

    So again we see that they were more interested in a confrontation and initiating a wave of propaganda than in delivering "aid" to Gaza.

    This underscores that they themselves know that Gaza isn't really in need of the "aid" and thus the delivery itself wasn't the priority so much as starting the propaganda wave that people like ZbmwM5 and others are now - shamefully - riding.

    The people aboard these ships were not "peace activists", "relief workers" or "humanitarians". They are ruthless thugs only interested in their political anti-Israel agenda. They hate Israel/Jews more than they love or care for the Palestinian Arabs - who, like the children involved, they cynically use.
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    Jun 01, 2010 5:18 AM GMT
    Some more about the IHH group behind this fiasco
    From the Danish Institute for International Studies:


    http://www.diis.dk/graphics/Publications/WP2006/DIIS%20WP%202006-7.web.pdf
    the phenomenon of charitable front groups that provide support to Al-Qaida is by no means exclusively limited to the Arabian Peninsula. Indeed, elsewhere in the Muslim world, other such entities have been established with near equal success – as in Turkey, with the so called Foundation for Human Rights, Liberties, and Humanitarian Relief (IHH). Turkish authorities began their own domestic criminal investigation of IHH as early as December 1997, when sources revealed that leaders of IHH were purchasing automatic weapons from other regional Islamic militant groups.43 IHH’s bureau in Istanbul was thoroughly searched, and its local officers were arrested. Security forces uncovered an array of disturbing items, including firearms, explosives, bomb-making instructions, and a “jihad flag.” After analyzing seized IHH documents, Turkish authorities concluded that “detained members of IHH were going to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya.”44

    According to a French intelligence report, the terrorist infiltration of IHH extended to its most senior ranks. The report, written by famed counterterrorism magistrate Jean-Louis Bruguiere, revealed that IHH President Bulent Yildrim had directly conspired in the mid-1990s to “recruit veteran soldiers in anticipation of the coming holy war [jihad]. In particular, some men were sent into war zones in Muslim countries in order to acquire combat experience.”45

    Furthermore, in the hopes of “obtaining political support from these countries, financial aid was transferred [on behalf of IHH], as well as caches of firearms, knives, and pre-fabricated explosives.”46 An examination of IHH’s phone records in Istanbul showed repeated telephone calls in 1996 to an Al-Qaida guesthouse in Milan and various Algerian terrorist operatives active elsewhere in Europe – including the notorious Abu el-Ma`ali, who has been subsequently termed by U.S. officials as a “junior Osama Bin Laden.”47

    During the later Seattle trial of would-be Al-Qaida Millenium bomber Ahmed Ressam, federal prosecutors called French magistrate Bruguiere to the stand as an expert witness. Bruguiere testified that IHH had played “[a]n important role” in the Al-Qaida Millenium bomb plot targeting LAX. Under repeated questioning, Bruguiere insisted that “[t]here’s a rather close relation... The IHH is an NGO, but it was kind of a type of cover-up… in order to obtain forged documents and also to obtain different forms of infiltration for Mujahideen in combat. And also to go and gather[recruit] these Mujahideens. And finally, one of the last responsibilities that they had was also to be implicated or involved in weapons trafficking."48

    IHH has also been connected to supplying terrorist insurgents in Iraq and I think Afghanistan.
    You know, the ones attacking American (and British, Canadian and other) soldiers.

    I think we're starting to get a clearer picture
    Not only weren't these "humanitarian" "aid workers" or "peace activists", they were "militants"!

  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jun 01, 2010 8:02 AM GMT

    Israel had every right to stop and search that ship.

    International Law

    Section II

    98. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.

    Section IV

    Neutral merchant vessels


    67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
    (a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
    (b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;

    Israel has international law on its side, not hysteria of the anti-Israel fringe.

    They're damn lucky that Israel didn't just blow them out of the water.

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    Jun 01, 2010 1:57 PM GMT
    Seems like the anti-Israel crowd which has rallied to support the IHH militants has no intellectual, moral or legal refuge left.
    Not that it will stem their hate and their lies required in pusruit of that hate.
  • shutoman

    Posts: 505

    Jun 01, 2010 2:30 PM GMT
    Dear Caesarea,

    For the record. Just because yours is that last post on any forum discussion does not mean I - or anyone else for that matter - accepts that you have won the argument. Rather it suggests that you have a lot of time on your hands.

    Nor I accept that literally the last word is the most probative. To suggest that it does implies an approach to an argument that does not weigh merits. I'm sire you're not that kind of guy.

    Jake, there is one important point here. you say: "If a country warns you NOT to come into the country or territory, then DON'T go into it."

    In the normal course of events, this is true. But these boats were not in Israel's territorial waters (leaving aside the issue of whether Israel can impose a blockade off the Coast of Gaza - a distinctly moot point). There is no dispute (even from the Israeli government) that these boats were in International Waters.

    Leaving aside the rights and wrongs, this was a screw-up. There are now nearly 600 civilians being held in Israel without charge. Israel has achieved virtually 100% condemnation (pace US) and has the administration of these boats to deal with. It's a mess.

    Moreover, this is yet another military 'solution' on the cusp of forthcoming peace talks and Israel set the timing. I hope this is just a coincidence.

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    Jun 01, 2010 2:57 PM GMT
    So, shutoman, you have time to do everything but read and address the topic?

    shutoman> these boats were not in Israel's territorial waters

    Webster666 has already quoted from the governing San Remo convention:
    http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce
    98. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.


    shutoman> this is yet another military 'solution' on the cusp of forthcoming peace talks and Israel set the timing. I hope this is just a coincidence.

    The timing of this event was determined by the IHH militants and their Hamas terrorist allies.
    Are you suggesting it was intentional, to derail peace talks, but that nonetheless this is somehow devious Israel's fault?
  • shutoman

    Posts: 505

    Jun 01, 2010 5:38 PM GMT
    Caesarea,

    I have addressed precisely the issue not only of the location of the vessels but of the effect of San Remo. You sought to suggest these boats were not in International Waters. To repeat, citing San Remo confirms that these vessels WERE in International Waters. Please read what I have written.

    The timing of this raid - and the subsequent deaths - was entirely that of Israel. This raid could have happened at any time over the last few weeks. Why now?

    The number of deaths, all on one side, shows disproportionate use of force.

    I understand the c600 detainees are now to be charged with non-cooperation? If so, why were 60 released? And non-cooperation with what? The issue of the legality of the blockade is moot and in any case would presumably be for decision by an international Tribunal. How can an Israeli court possibly have jurisdiction here?

    Please set out why Israel can maintain any form of legal blockade on the Gaza coast (that is non Israeli waters)?
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    Jun 01, 2010 6:50 PM GMT
    shutoman> You sought to suggest these boats were not in International Waters. To repeat, citing San Remo confirms that these vessels WERE in International Waters.

    I made no such suggestion nor is there an implication.
    If the boat was in territorial waters then Israel had a right to board.
    If the boat was in international waters then Israel had a right to board.
    The location of the boat has no impact on whether Israel had a right to board.
    What don't you understand? Will we really need to go over this a 4th and 5th time?


    shutoman> The timing of this raid - and the subsequent deaths - was entirely that of Israel. This raid could have happened at any time over the last few weeks. Why now?

    Really? Duh!

    Because the boat was "now" approaching the blockade and attempting to breach it.

    Why don't you explain to us how Israel could have interdicted this vessel, say, 2 weeks ago?
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    Jun 01, 2010 7:13 PM GMT
    Wait...didn't Israel fire at the ships?
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    Jun 01, 2010 7:40 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    JakeBenson saidSeriously fuck you guys if you think these were peace activists. I'm tired of this anti-Israel propaganda on Real Jock. Look at the fucking videos. These were not peaceful activists. The videos show they're violent. What do you expect Israeli soldiers to do when they get beat and stabbed?


    Ummm... Unless Israel has declared war on Turkey, the Israeli soldiers had no right to storm that ship.

    Those on the ship were merely defending themselves.

    I'd like to see what Israel would have done had Turkish forces done the same to Israel (blockades, forced boardings of Israeli non-military vessels).

    The days of Israel getting a free pass on these kinds of things must come to an end.


    No they were not defending themselves. They were ready for war. They even have footage preparing themselves to fight beforehand.

    If you think Israel can't get away with this then I sure as hell hope you're not pro-America invading Muslim countries killing multiple thousands of civilians in an attempt to kill the "terrorists."
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    Jun 01, 2010 7:59 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidWait...didn't Israel fire at the ships?

    The IHH "militants" began the violence, which they had premeditated.
    Did you watch the videos at the beginning of this topic?
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    Jun 01, 2010 8:21 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidWait...didn't Israel fire at the ships?

    The IHH "militants" began the violence, which they had premeditated.
    Did you watch the videos at the beginning of this topic?


    This conflicts with reports that the Israelis were firing from their ships 5 minutes before the commandos were dropped.
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    Jun 01, 2010 9:09 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    reports that the Israelis were firing from their ships 5 minutes before the commandos were dropped.

    I haven't seen any such report (what's your source?) and find it highly implausible that Israel would drop in soldiers - armed with paint guns - one by one had there already been firing.

    The videos above - as well as those from Turkish TV sources on board - show that the "militants" began the violence, which they openly stated was pre-meditated.
  • Mepark

    Posts: 806

    Jun 01, 2010 10:59 PM GMT
    There was nothing "humanitarian," or "peaceful" coming from those so-called activists. Americans are so quick to believe any statements made by journalists with the content of those two sensitive words. The fact is that the activists were pro-Hamas loyalists and their intention was to provoke Israel, plain and simple. They did....Israel was pre-maturely or mistakingly condemned and their reputation further damaged. And it's sad that people, including Arabs like myself, don't see who really was the evil in all of this. The truth is that the Palestinian people are caught up in the middle of this, and their leaders and so-called supporters such as Iran and Syria are bringing war right to their front doors.
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    Jun 01, 2010 11:18 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    reports that the Israelis were firing from their ships 5 minutes before the commandos were dropped.

    I haven't seen any such report (what's your source?) and find it highly implausible that Israel would drop in soldiers - armed with paint guns - one by one had there already been firing.

    The videos above - as well as those from Turkish TV sources on board - show that the "militants" began the violence, which they openly stated was pre-meditated.


    http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/01/gaza.raid.eyewitnesses/

    And then there is this

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    Jun 02, 2010 12:00 AM GMT
    In this scenario, when the ships were approaching the Israel coastline, the Israeli forces HAD EVERY RIGHT to intercept those ships. Israel's version of the interception was (surprisingly) broadcast on the BBC News. The video clearly shown how the crew of the ship set about to attack the Israeli soldiers as they were lowered on board.
    But why?
    If the crew of the ship had nothing to hide, and all their cargo were innocent items of aid, why the on-board aggression?
    If I was the captain of that ship and I knew that I was carrying ordinary merchandise, then I would have urged the Israeli forces to thoroughly inspect the cargo, and any part of the ship if they desire to look over. Then we would have been escorted to port safely.
    Guilt always shows up in one way or another, and aggressive resistance to inspection is the most likely way.
    It is very unfortunate that the world media, and especially the BBC, had always been pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel. One time BBC Middle East correspondent Orla Gearing was on the point of being aggressively biased against Israel, even if her reports were clear enough that Israel was not to blame.
    It is my opinion that leaders of other nations, particularly Turkey, the UK and America take special care if siding against Israel, for this could bring their economic or political downfall, as was the cause of the demise of the British Empire in 1966, the result of the White Paper signed by the British Government in the 1940s, preventing the Jews from entering their homeland as decreed by the Balfour Declaration signed in 1918.
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    Jun 02, 2010 12:12 AM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca> reports that the Israelis were firing from their ships 5 minutes before the commandos were dropped.

    Caesarea4> I haven't seen any such report (what's your source?)

    DDA> "Activists tell of live fire DURING Israeli raid"

    But that same report goes on to say that Israeli forces only fired after they were attacked.

    No, it's not CNN or AP or any credible news agencies that are reporting this as fact, they are passing on an allegation from ONE of the "militants".

    Hmmm, who is it that constantly twists and misrepresents sources in this way and misconstrues kangaroo court accusations as "proof"? DDA is that you or are you letting your friend tokugawa use your RJ account?


    It is highly implausible that Israel would drop in soldiers - armed with paint guns - one by one had there already been live fire

    DDA> [silence]


    The videos above - as well as those from Turkish TV sources on board - show that the "militants" began the violence, which they openly stated was pre-meditated.

    DDA> [ignored]
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    Jun 02, 2010 1:15 AM GMT
    Caesarea4 saidDoomsDayAlpaca> reports that the Israelis were firing from their ships 5 minutes before the commandos were dropped.

    Caesarea4> I haven't seen any such report (what's your source?)

    DDA> "Activists tell of live fire DURING Israeli raid"

    But that same report goes on to say that Israeli forces only fired after they were attacked.

    No, it's not CNN or AP or any credible news agencies that are reporting this as fact, they are passing on an allegation from ONE of the "militants".

    Hmmm, who is it that constantly twists and misrepresents sources in this way and misconstrues kangaroo court accusations as "proof"? DDA is that you or are you letting your friend tokugawa use your RJ account?


    It is highly implausible that Israel would drop in soldiers - armed with paint guns - one by one had there already been live fire

    DDA> [silence]


    The videos above - as well as those from Turkish TV sources on board - show that the "militants" began the violence, which they openly stated was pre-meditated.

    DDA> [ignored]


    It would be irresponsible for them to only report one side of the story.

    And so far I have been asking for verification since everyone stumbles upon different sources.

    Work on not being a prick buddy.
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    Jun 02, 2010 1:19 AM GMT
    southbeach> The old attitude of "Israel gets a pass on anything it does as long as it says it is doing it in self-defense" is slowly starting to fade away here in the USA.

    I don't know that those days ever existed, or that it's dubious that Israel is motivated by something other than its security.

    Thankfully most Americans are smarter than the spam propagandists think and they don't fall for the vile slogans and soundbites (e.g. "pirates").

    GallupPoll20100224.gif
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    Jun 02, 2010 2:14 AM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca> reports that the Israelis were firing from their ships 5 minutes before the commandos were dropped.

    Caesarea4> I haven't seen any such report (what's your source?)

    DDA> "Activists tell of live fire DURING Israeli raid"

    But that same report goes on to say that Israeli forces only fired after they were attacked.

    No, it's not CNN or AP or any credible news agencies that are reporting this as fact, they are passing on an allegation from ONE of the "militants".


    DDA> It would be irresponsible for them to only report one side of the story.

    No one said that CNN shouldn't report the allegation, but it is you who misrepresented it as "reports", as if CNN or AP were themselves reporting this rather than passing on ONE allegation from one of the "militants".

    It was you who failed to share that the same AP report also provided an opposing statement.


    DDA> so far I have been asking for verification since everyone stumbles upon different sources.

    So you keep repeating something for which you haven't been able to find "verification"?


    It is highly implausible that Israel would drop in soldiers - armed with paint guns - one by one had there already been live fire

    DDA> [silence, again]


    The videos above - as well as those from Turkish TV sources on board - show that the "militants" began the violence, which they openly stated was pre-meditated.

    DDA> [ignored, again]

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 02, 2010 3:33 AM GMT
    They were attacked on the high seas. How dare they defend themselves? How dare they be prepared to defend themselves in light of the illegal Israeli blockade?

    The greed of the Israelis is going to do them in.