Religion VS sexuality....

  • drakutis

    Posts: 586

    Feb 01, 2008 10:50 PM GMT
    Check out what one of the biggest DC churches is going through.

    http://washingtonblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=16289

    You may have to copy and past the address.

    Very Interesting stuff and I know the church in question.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 02, 2008 3:35 AM GMT
    “The following people I am asking you to monitor very closely and my prayer is that you will sit them down from their ministries,” she told Owens in the December e-mail. “Because they are ushering in the presence of sin, lies, a spirit of homosexuality and sexual spirits.”

    icon_rolleyes.gif

    All I ask is people explain why their gay friendly version of religion is any more valid or believable than this woman's homo-hating version.

    People need to stop putting stock in fairy tales and help end the spread of dishonesty.

  • drakutis

    Posts: 586

    Feb 02, 2008 4:01 AM GMT
    When I tell some people that I don't belong to a church in the DC area, they give me this look of shame and this is from gays and straights! I have nothing against religion or churches. Matter of fact my home church is in Philadelphia. I just don't want someone who knows nothing of me telling me how to live my life and what I'm doing is wrong and against God's will!! If that is the case, I would rather have god tell me so and not some outsider to my life. Then want to collect money from me!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 02, 2008 5:37 AM GMT
    well, those damned sexual spirits need to leave the church and start heading my way! icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 02, 2008 5:42 AM GMT
    Satyricon331 saidwell, those damned sexual spirits need to leave the church and start heading my way! icon_lol.gif


    I would gladly open myself up for possession by some of those.icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 02, 2008 6:31 AM GMT
    What I find most upsetting is that once again a relatively small group of self righteous Christians have portrayed the entire Christian faith as being homophobic, self righteous, purist. There are millions of loving and caring Christians, that whether they support a gay lifestyle or not, do not cast judgment on others. They reach out in love and support for their fellow human beings regardless of their sexual orientation. Why can't the media ever talk about those Christians!

    I'm a practicing Christian and I'm gay...and the entire article disgusts me in several ways. The hypocrisy of that congregation to think that their slander of anyone is walking in the way of Jesus Christ makes me sick. And the fact that it made headlines, it's no wonder we have hatred all around us. Guess there was NO GOOD NEWS that day....pretty sad. I shall pray for their reconciliation and resolve, as well as their tolerance and understanding.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 02, 2008 8:40 AM GMT
    Can I strangle that choir member now? icon_evil.gif

    Please? icon_twisted.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 02, 2008 8:51 AM GMT
    icon_twisted.gifI want t see that list. This is just making me horny!!!icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 02, 2008 10:04 AM GMT
    I think what is appauling is how far Christian groups take literal translation of the bible. Some used it to support the idea of owning slaves and even still today some churches are struggling with a passage that states that no woman should have authority over a man. They believe that the woman's place is in the home making babies and of course gay men belong in hell....

    People should stop taking the bible so literal and focus in on what was being taught: Love and Respect for everyone. Pretty much every religon out there states the same thing but it gets mangaled on false premises that there is only one correct way to believe and all other ways are incorrect.

    If you guys want to read a great play about religon I suggest "Nathan the Wise" it boldly suggests that there is little difference between Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 02, 2008 10:17 AM GMT
    People really need to get a grip. This is another example of people unable to overcome their belief in nonsense.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 02, 2008 12:53 PM GMT
    Alexander89I want t see that list. This is just making me horny!!!

    Hey guys, it is quite a serious issue. It doesn't make me horny at all what's happening to those guys. I don't think they are having a great time right now, and they would enjoy much more your support than your sexual propositions.

    I found it strange that actually no black gays are posting here. I notice that before, but even more on this topic. My bf's black and he's strugeling with those issues of religion. It seems to be even less accepted from black churches to be gay. I know a black guy going to a "gay-friendly black church", being happy about it, but i don't think that compartmentalizing/cloistering people in narrow groups helps people to understand/accept eachother.
    Anyway, more importantly, as drakutis expressed, everyone should make his own opinion about religion and follow his own belief, not the church's belief/recommendations. (hope i got u right here mate). Churches are a way to make people with same belief join together, not a way to change people's belief to the churh's belief.

    Sorry for my english guys... I'm more use to talk than write about that. The frenchy apologies... icon_smile.gif
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 02, 2008 1:08 PM GMT
    I'm tired of these self-righteous religious bigots
    Jesus was probably the most liberal thinker who ever lived
    Maybe this will get to them
    [url][/url]
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2008 2:56 PM GMT
    GQJock: that was really funny! haha.


    I'm really sad to read that article. This is why I grew up the way I did: always feeling uncomfortable showing PDA or even anything remotely telling that I was gay in public (unless I was in a gay area). After moving to LA, I've learned that there are places where people are more open-minded (but the bigots still exist).

    There are plenty of churches in DC that welcome gays. I really don't understand why some gays would choose to still congregate at this one even after all this. All the gays in the choir should have said "goodbye!" and then see what little left they have of a choir. Let the narrow-minded homophobes see how much we contribute.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2008 3:07 PM GMT
    eb925guy saidWhat I find most upsetting is that once again a relatively small group of self righteous Christians have portrayed the entire Christian faith as being homophobic, self righteous, purist. There are millions of loving and caring Christians, that whether they support a gay lifestyle or not, do not cast judgment on others.


    You are deluded sir. You can't simultaneously believe that a "lifestyle" is "wrong" and yet "not cast judgment." That makes no sense whatsoever, but alas, religion is the great deceiver, absolute faith in the absence of evidence.

    Most Christians are self righteous, it's coded into their belief system (believing they are the only true path to the giant sky fairy). If they're not, they're simply bad Christians.

    Religion is the poison running through the blood of this country.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2008 3:23 PM GMT
    Religion may be divinely inspired, but folks, it's man made. It is not of God. Churches are a construct of man. Further division of the human species. Categories into which one falls to find some sort of acceptance to give the ultimate meaninglessness of life faux meaning.

    I wish more people in the world would THINK for themselves. I've nothing against God, but a lot against the herd mentality.
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Feb 05, 2008 3:29 PM GMT
    Wow, what a horrible situation for those guys. Sadly, with all those emails going back and forth, and the email the one gay guy sent outing others, it's very much like highschool.

    Many fundamentalist Christians separate thier intolerance of homosexulaity from the person. 'It's nothing against you as a person, it's against your sexuality and your lifestyle'. Hypocrasy, yes, but it's better than throwing stones as you walk by. Maybe tolerance for the individual, not the lifestyle, is the first small, very small, step towards a future acceptance. It's not like it's something what can change over night.

    Posthuman said:

    Most Christians are self righteous, it's coded into their belief system (believing they are the only true path to the giant sky fairy). If they're not, they're simply bad Christians.

    And technically, he's right. Christianity has it's doctrine and belief system, self-righteousness and homophobia being part of that system. Jesus may not have preached against homosexuality, but Christianity is about so much more than following the teachings of Christ. It's about power, control, and being subservient to your religious leaders, aceepting their opinions and following their lead without question.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2008 3:30 PM GMT
    icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2008 3:34 PM GMT
    RunintheCity saidReligion may be divinely inspired, but folks, it's man made. It is not of God. Churches are a construct of man. Further division of the human species. Categories into which one falls to find some sort of acceptance to give the ultimate meaninglessness of life faux meaning.

    I wish more people in the world would THINK for themselves. I've nothing against God, but a lot against the herd mentality.


    God is also man-made. There is no evidence of God, gods, or god.
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Feb 05, 2008 3:49 PM GMT
    dfrw said

    God is also man-made. There is no evidence of God, gods, or god.


    There is also no evidence that the divine (however you see it) deosn't exist.

    While I'm not religious, I am a spiritual person, a polytheist that believes in a multitude of individual gods. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with believing in something 'greater' than us.

    My spirituality is based upon personal truth, which I am willing to share and talk about if the subject comes up. But it's just sharing, not proselytizing. I do have issue with religions that require blind faith (in it's leaders and their words) and promote hatred and intolerance in any manner. Although I take issue with any group that promotes hatred and intolerance in any manner, religious or otherwise.

    Yes, religions are man-made and there is nothing wrong with that. But when the focus turns towards hatred and away from spiritual enlightenment, there is the problem.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2008 4:22 PM GMT
    ShawnTo saidThere is also no evidence that the divine (however you see it) doesn't exist.

    While I'm not religious, I am a spiritual person, a polytheist that believes in a multitude of individual gods. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with believing in something 'greater' than us.

    My spirituality is based upon personal truth, which I am willing to share and talk about if the subject comes up. But it's just sharing, not proselytizing. I do have issue with religions that require blind faith (in it's leaders and their words) and promote hatred and intolerance in any manner. Although I take issue with any group that promotes hatred and intolerance in any manner, religious or otherwise.

    Yes, religions are man-made and there is nothing wrong with that. But when the focus turns towards hatred and away from spiritual enlightenment, there is the problem.


    The first statement you made, ShawnTo, is the same argument that proponents of ID (Intelligent Design) and other Creationists (for example) use to say, "we win because science (you) cannot prove that God doesn't exist." It really isn't up to science (or me) to prove that God does exist; it is up to God's proponents (Creationists, religionists, and so forth) to prove that he/she/it does exist. Since believers are unable to provide even a shred of evidence for the existence of God, one must assume, logically and rationally, that God does not exist.

    I understand man's need for comfort and meaning through religion or spiritualism, but I find it silly that people exert so much energy for what I, and many others believe, to be fiction. Indeed, I find such beliefs to be quite dangerous and, in fact, responsible for much of the violence and death that occurred throughout history.

    I'll paraphrase Julia Sugarbaker from Designing Women in one episode, "crystals are just rocks...tell your fiends."
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Feb 05, 2008 4:36 PM GMT
    I understand what you are saying, dfrw. My point was that just because we cannot prove the existence of a divine power doesn't mean one doesn't exist. I do believe that science is capable of having all the answers where it concerns this physical plane, but we, as yet, do not have all those answers.

    In time, as we evolve, both intellectually and technologically, many more answers will come. Throughout the years, scientific claims have been made and disproven, so to say that the divine doesn't exist because science cannot prove that is does shows limited thinking.

    Besides, science concerns this physical plane, something the divine may have touched, but does not encompass. I don't see how we can prove the existence of something so far beyond our experience with the limited amount of understanding we have.

    This is all just in my own opinion (obviously) and not meant to be taken as an offense by anybody. I think one can have a very healthy personal belief system that can include both science and faith without one contradicting another. Blind faith in science is equally as detrimental as blind faith in religion.

    I believe it's entirely possible that a divine force created all existence. If the divine (however one sees it) created this physical plane, it can be argued that it followed the laws of physics it created, having a hand at the creation of all things, life, etc. through evolution. A belief in one does not automatically mean a disbelief in the other.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2008 4:37 PM GMT
    In reference to Posthuman's comments:

    You are deluded sir. You can't simultaneously believe that a "lifestyle" is "wrong" and yet "not cast judgment." That makes no sense whatsoever, but alas, religion is the great deceiver, absolute faith in the absence of evidence.

    First, I am not deluded, obviously your opinion. There is nothing misleading or deceiving about my thoughts. Organized religion has its issues, I don't disagree with that, the article clearly articulates that point by the mere fact that a group who have been called by their faith to love, find themselves at each other's throats. I don't believe that the lack of support or endorsement of a group's actions constitutes casting judgement upon individuals who do endorse that action. What you did not include in your quote is the what I stated after that: They reach out in love and support for their fellow human beings regardless of their sexual orientation. This is the call Christians are given and I believe that the majority fall into this group. Caring, loving, Christ like human beings, who are not perfect, that would give of themselves for people like us, despite our sexuality.

    As for absolute faith in the absence of evidence, that's what faith is... believing in something without the need for proof, a higher spiritual being, a belief.

    Most Christians are self righteous, it's coded into their belief system (believing they are the only true path to the giant sky fairy). If they're not, they're simply bad Christians.

    No way man! Christians believe, because of their faith, that there is one god and through Jesus Christ alone, there is salvation. It has nothing to do with "them" and they do NOT believe that "they are the only true path" to anything. Christians believe they are sinners, not worthy of the grace God has shown them. There is no "they" in Christianity, it's about Him (God). Not everyone who calls themself a Christian acts, speaks or conducts themselves as Christ like, the article, again, is clear reference to this. However, I think articles such as this and reactions such as yours are a lot like "thowing the baby out with the bath water".

    Religion is the poison running through the blood of this country.

    I think this is a statement that conveys great intolerence. Faith based organizations and their members do a lot in our society for caring and outreach to those who are in need. I'm sorry you feel otherwise.

    Peace man!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2008 4:53 PM GMT
    ShawnTo: [quote][cite]Jesus may not have preached against homosexuality, but Christianity is about so much more than following the teachings of Christ. It's about power, control, and being subservient to your religious leaders, aceepting their opinions and following their lead without question.
    [/quote]

    Christianity IS about Jesus Christ and only the teachings of Christ. The fact that there are denominations and groups that call themselves Christians that desire power, wealth, recognition, etc should not change the meaning of Christianity. One should look carefully at what a person says and does to reveal their true motivations in claiming to be a Christian. There is interpetation of the Word through scripture, just as in any religion anywhere in the world, but we can only hope that people who hear the Word will use their God given intelligence to separate wheat from the chaff!
  • justjk

    Posts: 302

    Feb 05, 2008 5:00 PM GMT
    I myself am a Christian, i have no problems with God, he and i are good, my faith is perfectly fine so as long as my faith is strong and god and i have a good relationship i will neither condem or condone the churches that feel they need to preach us all into hell, everyone should just feel strong in their faith and i think we'll all be o.k.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2008 6:49 PM GMT
    I guess the subject of this topic is lost....icon_neutral.gif