Hate Crimes ..... Where do they Start?

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 10, 2010 10:31 AM GMT
    Here are the Statistics
    The Male Anti-gay statistics are sad
    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/data/table_04.html

    <object width=">
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 1:20 PM GMT
    From my stance it's learned from family, friends or media and by circumstance. A lot of the people who commit them are misinformed, respond to knee jerk reactions or have uneducated views.
    If you look at something like the Cronulla Riots in Australia, I tend to believe a lot of those people weren't racist, they were in an forced position to choose a side or wanted an excuse to cause trouble.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 3:40 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidIt seems to me that, at the root of "hate crimes" is hate, and you can see plenty of hate here on RJ, so perhaps you don't need to look very far at all for the answer you seek.


    What's the frequency of orientation-motivated assault by homosexuals against straight people?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 3:43 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidIt seems to me that, at the root of "hate crimes" is hate, and you can see plenty of hate here on RJ, so perhaps you don't need to look very far at all for the answer you seek.



    At least your recognize the nature of your own posting. Now you can step up an be part of the solution by changing your tone.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 3:51 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidSee what I mean?



    As someone who wished that another member here would die, I don't see your moral high ground. My comment didn't name call or wish you any harm two things you actually do. Now you are playing victim rather than discuss your behavior. Care to stay on topic?

    You seem to have classic bully attitude. You like to talk big until someone calls you on it then run off complaining about how people treat you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 3:56 PM GMT
    Interesting video icon_eek.gif

    It is taught. As far as anti-gay .. there is a certain segment of conservative and religious groups that actively promote hate and misinformation towards gays. Then there are those who turn the other way as it happens which does not help.

    There are too many people that don't care about blatant bigotry towards groups of people that they deem insignificant or foreign to them.

    there are some groups that monitor hate groups like
    http://www.splcenter.org/

    As far as here on real jock yes there are those who continually make sweeping negative generalizations about gay people as a whole or RJ members as a whole. That kind of hate mongering should be reported so that those people can get booted as a few have been in the past. Sometimes they come back so you have to report them again .. hopefully those kinds of people can be booted permanently.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 3:59 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    redheadedryan said
    southbeach1500 saidIt seems to me that, at the root of "hate crimes" is hate, and you can see plenty of hate here on RJ, so perhaps you don't need to look very far at all for the answer you seek.


    What's the frequency of orientation-motivated assault by homosexuals against straight people?

    I don't know either (assuming that you don't know since you are posing the question).
    If you had read the link you would be able to answer this .. even though the data is 2008 it gives an idea .. you need to do your research if you are really seriously interested ..

    Sexual Orientation Total: 1,617
    Anti-Male Homosexual 948
    Anti-Female Homosexual 194
    Anti-Homosexual 415
    Anti-Heterosexual 33
    Anti-Bisexual 27
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 4:12 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    ActiveAndFit saidIf you had read the link you would be able to answer this .. even though the data is 2008 it gives an idea .. you need to do your research if you are really seriously interested ..

    Sexual Orientation Total: 1,617
    Anti-Male Homosexual 948
    Anti-Female Homosexual 194
    Anti-Homosexual 415
    Anti-Heterosexual 33
    Anti-Bisexual 27


    The question was:

    What's the frequency of orientation-motivated assault by homosexuals against straight people?

    The information you posted (and what is in the link) does not answer that question as it doesn't identify the sexual orientation of the perps.
    It is close enough .. for it to be a hate crime against straights, the reason would have to be because they are straight .. if the number is an approximate total then you know that the approximate total for homosexuals offenders would have to be less (or equal) .. it has to do with fractions .. you know about those don't you? icon_rolleyes.gif

    Here is some quick math in case you still don't get it .. 33/1617 = (approx) .02 or 2 percent. Therefore the cases of homosexuals committing hate crimes against straights would be 2% or less.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 4:40 PM GMT
    I think it should be noted that a majority of anti-gay hate crimes do NOT get prosecuted as such.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 5:00 PM GMT

    Active and others, SB wants hate crimes against straights by gay people to justify his personal feelings about gays, especially RJ gays.

    Because the number of those incidents are so tiny, it's nearly impossible to get data on google. (and we think he knows this)

  • seven_deadly_...

    Posts: 104

    Jun 10, 2010 5:09 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidIt seems to me that, at the root of "hate crimes" is hate, and you can see plenty of hate here on RJ, so perhaps you don't need to look very far at all for the answer you seek.


    Hi SB - I'm curious about what you're suggesting (if anything) through the above post.

    GQJock's question was "Where do hate crimes start?" Do you mean to imply that the amount of "hate" in the RJ forums somehow leads to actual hate crimes? If so, how do you envision that happening? Or perhaps you're not implying anything and are just voicing dissatisfaction about negativity in threads?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 5:37 PM GMT
    See? When confronted you just ignored it rather have a conversation.
  • seven_deadly_...

    Posts: 104

    Jun 10, 2010 5:41 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    seven_deadly_monkeys said
    Hi SB - I'm curious about what you're suggesting (if anything) through the above post.

    GQJock's question was "Where do hate crimes start?" Do you mean to imply that the amount of "hate" in the RJ forums somehow leads to actual hate crimes? If so, how do you envision that happening? Or perhaps you're not implying anything and are just voicing dissatisfaction about negativity in threads?

    Intolerance and aggression... of which there is no shortage around here, and which is at the root of all hate crimes.


    OK, so lets say an RJ member posts a thread which proves unpopular with the vast majority of the other members. Multiple people participate in the thread and demonstrate what could be considered intolerance and aggression, primarily directed at the OP. How does that actually lead to a hate crime? Are you suggesting that the OP might become so frustrated and angry that he'll go out and commit a hate crime?
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 10, 2010 5:55 PM GMT
    southbeach, disagreeing isn't intolerance. That's where your logic on hate crimes is flawed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 5:55 PM GMT
    Intolerance of Hitler, his antics and nazis and aggression against them is also what world war II was about.

    Then there's intolerance of slavery and aggression against it, like a certain war in your country SB.


    Do try again.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 5:57 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    MonkeyPuck saidSee? When confronted you just ignored it rather have a conversation.

    No, I don't see.

    What I do see is you trying to start an argument with me by criticizing me.


    Again, avoid the subject.

    I agree with you that the forums here can get rather toxic. All I am asking is that you own up to your part of fixing it as actively contribute to it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 6:05 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    MonkeyPuck saidSee? When confronted you just ignored it rather have a conversation.

    No, I don't see.

    What I do see is you trying to start an argument with me by criticizing me.


    It's not criticism if he's addressing a matter of fact. Something you of all people shouldn't even start throwing any stones at anyone on hereicon_lol.gif
    Seems all you want to do is argue with facts people give, just shut up. Cause i'm sure others like me are sick of ignorant assholes like you. We have enough in society. Either link something productive or shut up.
  • seven_deadly_...

    Posts: 104

    Jun 10, 2010 6:10 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    seven_deadly_monkeys said
    OK, so lets say an RJ member posts a thread which proves unpopular with the vast majority of the other members. Multiple people participate in the thread and demonstrate what could be considered intolerance and aggression, primarily directed at the OP. How does that actually lead to a hate crime? Are you suggesting that the OP might become so frustrated and angry that he'll go out and commit a hate crime?

    You are fishing for a direct cause and effect.

    I'm suggesting that at the root of hate crime is intolerance and aggression.

    Nothing more, nothing less.


    First - thanks for taking the time for the back and forth discussion. I appreciate it.

    I get what you're saying about intolerance and aggression being the root of hate crimes. That makes sense. I guess I'm searching for a direct cause and effect because your initial post seemed (at least to me) to indicate that RJ was partially responsible for hate crimes. If your point was that intolerance/aggression --> hate crimes, I'm unclear why your first post in this thread included the additional verbage about hate on RJ and not needing to look very far.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 6:17 PM GMT
    SovereignNemesis said
    southbeach1500 said
    MonkeyPuck saidSee? When confronted you just ignored it rather have a conversation.

    No, I don't see.

    What I do see is you trying to start an argument with me by criticizing me.


    It's not criticism if he's addressing a matter of fact. Something you of all people shouldn't even start throwing any stones at anyone on hereicon_lol.gif
    Seems all you want to do is argue with facts people give, just shut up. Cause i'm sure others like me are sick of ignorant assholes like you. We have enough in society. Either link something productive or shut up.



    I don't think telling SB to "shut up" or calling him an "ignorant asshole" really help the overall situation in fact I think it only enables his behavior. There are was to point out issues without slinging insults.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 10, 2010 9:56 PM GMT
    Puh...leeze we have people on here equating getting their heads verbally handed to them for making stupid comments
    To people getting maimed and killed because they're gay or they're black or they're an immigrant???
    You're kidding me right?

    I hope icon_confused.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 10, 2010 10:09 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    ActiveAndFit saidIt is close enough .. for it to be a hate crime against straights, the reason would have to be because they are straight .. if the number is an approximate total then you know that the approximate total for homosexuals offenders would have to be less (or equal) .. it has to do with fractions .. you know about those don't you? icon_rolleyes.gif

    That's your interpretation, but it's not stated in the data.
    It is a number, it is math. 33/1617 = approximately 2% is not an interpretation it is basic math. But your denial of basic math is kind of funny. It exposes you.

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/victims.html
    "2.0 percent were victims because of an anti-heterosexual bias."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 11, 2010 12:01 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    ActiveAndFit saidIt is a number, it is math. 33/1617 = approximately 2% is not an interpretation it is basic math. But your denial of basic math is kind of funny. It exposes you.

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/victims.html
    "2.0 percent were victims because of an anti-heterosexual bias."

    You don't get the nuance in my comment.

    Maybe someone else on here will explain it to you.
    I get your nuance alright it is "I am insincere and argue against facts because I think the majority of RJ'rs are against me!!"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 11, 2010 12:52 AM GMT
    Interestingly, though not surprisingly, this thread has quickly devolved to personal agenda's justified by selective use of the statistics.

    Take into account that the statistics are "as reported and accepted as" biased based crimes. So, it's only the reported crimes (many hate crimes are not reported, particularly in right-wing/conservative or highly religious homogeneous communities. Secondly, if the reporting agent decides that it isn't a bias based crime (due to his/her own biases), then it's not reported as such.

    Now, given what I've already said, what I find most disturbing is the fact that 10% of the reported crimes are based on sexuality, but ~71% (5 of 7) of the total murders are based on sexuality.

    The 'hate' almost always comes from ignorance.

    As for the video, it's certainly provocative, but I don't think that it says anything new. You can provide or even expect one solution to two completely different issues that are being combined by circumstance (citizenship, and drunk driving.)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 11, 2010 1:12 AM GMT
    bgcat57 saidInterestingly, though not surprisingly, this thread has quickly devolved to personal agenda's justified by selective use of the statistics.

    Take into account that the statistics are "as reported and accepted as" biased based crimes. So, it's only the reported crimes (many hate crimes are not reported, particularly in right-wing/conservative or highly religious homogeneous communities. Secondly, if the reporting agent decides that it isn't a bias based crime (due to his/her own biases), then it's not reported as such.

    Now, given what I've already said, what I find most disturbing is the fact that 10% of the reported crimes are based on sexuality, but ~71% (5 of 7) of the total murders are based on sexuality.

    The 'hate' almost always comes from ignorance.

    As for the video, it's certainly provocative, but I don't think that it says anything new. You can provide or even expect one solution to two completely different issues that are being combined by circumstance (citizenship, and drunk driving.)
    Yes. In actuality in is estimated that many hate crimes against gays are under reported for various reasons like the victim may not want to be further exposed or is in the closet somewhat. Also, at least before hate crimes legislation (I think this may have changed) not all states collected this information, etc.

    As far as motivation in homophobia there have been many studies into this. Karen Franklin and Gregory Herek have lots of interesting writings on this
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 11, 2010 1:15 AM GMT
    What is the cause of the hate?