Helen Thomas: Jews should "get the hell out of Palestine" or... Type Anything You Want About Israel Here That Has Nothing To Do With Helen

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    Jun 11, 2010 9:25 PM GMT
    Southbeach deleted the thread, so to be fair I thought it should be revived. Below are most of the posts, sans those from southbeach (except his initial post). However, I left all SB citations from other RJ members replying to him.

    southbeach150... Posts: 2725 Jun 07, 2010 2:54 PM
    I came across this over the weekend and was shocked that someone who has made their living covering politics for the past 50+ years would say such a thing.

    Apparently, she has just announced her retirement.
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/onmedia/0610/Helen_Thomas_retires.html

    DCEric Posts: 2232
    Jun 07, 2010 3:38 PM
    I am sure this thread will be full of constructive statements that will further the understanding of the two peoples bitterly divided in this conflict, and the millions who care. Also, unicorns are real.

    andymatic Posts: 208
    Jun 07, 2010 3:40 PM
    An awful way to end an amazing career.

    conscienti198... Posts: 491 Jun 07, 2010 3:41 PM
    And yet another thread which will be taken over by those who aruge for/aganist Israel/Palestine.

    _chuck_ Posts: 581
    Jun 07, 2010 3:48 PM

    dancerjack Posts: 998
    Jun 07, 2010 3:57 PM
    oh come on, darling. it's not really fair for you to delete other people's thoughts when we can't delete YOURS.

    kisses.
    blocking takes one so far, but is not as satisfying.

    I think all nations should go back to where they came from: Jews to Ur of the Chaldees, USAians to Italy, Scotland and Ireland, West Africa, Norway, Holland etc etc. All the inhabitants of Latin America should live in Spain apart from the Brazilians who should all be in Portugal and Africa.

    Oh it´s so realistic to move back to "homelands" that you have not lived in for 100s or 1000s of years. Let´s all do it.

    EricLA Posts: 2629
    Jun 07, 2010 4:04 PM
    Jay, I for one appreciate your comment. It is a touchy subject. Israel's statehood should not be questioned. And it deserves its security. However, I think most reasonable people would agree that Palestinians should not be displaced and deserve their equality and security, as well. A two-state solution seems to make the most sense, but both sides will have to compromise and bury hated and distrust that goes back 100s of years. But, South Africa and Northern Ireland give me hope that peace can be reached.


    darkeyedresol... Posts: 96 Jun 07, 2010 4:12 PM
    Considering most people thought she would die in that chair before retiring, it is sad to see this is how her career ends.

    Its usually how you go out is how people will remember you...sometimes
    southbeach150... Posts: 2725 Jun 07, 2010 4:14 PM
    dancerjack saidoh come on, darling. it's not really fair for you to delete other people's thoughts when we can't delete YOURS.

    kisses.

    Hehehe.... then you need to complain to the RJ admins to tell them to remove that functionality.

    But seriously, tokugawa and Caesarea4 had taken their hate war against each other and hijacked a topic that wasn't the place for their usual battle.

    And I did warn them to stop, and I even created a special topic just for them:

    The Tokugawa and Caesarea4 Argument here:

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/950656/



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    Jun 11, 2010 9:26 PM GMT
    pocketnico Posts: 238
    Jun 07, 2010 4:14 PM
    What a tacky way to go out! Not cool.

    Although apparently she forgot most Jews in Israel these days are from the former Soviet Union! Interestingly, just recently Russia Today did a report on Russian Jews in Israel deciding to return to Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan.

    JayDT Posts: 338
    Jun 07, 2010 4:17 PM

    EricLA saidJay, I for one appreciate your comment. It is a touchy subject. Israel's statehood should not be questioned. And it deserves its security. However, I think most reasonable people would agree that Palestinians should not be displaced and deserve their equality and security, as well. A two-state solution seems to make the most sense, but both sides will have to compromise and bury hated and distrust that goes back 100s of years. But, South Africa and Northern Ireland give me hope that peace can be reached.

    Either that or a coalition government. I'm not genius political scientist and I certainly don't have the answers. The one thing I know for sure is that both sides need to burry the hate.

    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 07, 2010 4:24 PM
    It is the Zionists' idea that want to wipe Palestinians out of their lands, so they can have a majority Jewish population in Israel. Zionists still use the word "Transfers" or "a land without a people for a people without a land." They're still in denial the ethnic cleansing what they did in the past and still doing it now.

    _chuck_ Posts: 581
    Jun 07, 2010 4:26 PM
    They would get along better if they had more bacon.

    Let's send lots and lots of bacon to Gaza and Israel

    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 07, 2010 4:28 PM
    _chuck_ saidThey would get along better if they had more bacon.

    Let's send lots and lots of bacon to Gaza and Israel


    Palestinians love bacon. I don't know about Israelis. They will shoot you in the eye.


    pocketnico Posts: 238
    Jun 07, 2010 4:29 PM
    If the USSR still existed, there would be enough Russian and Ukrainian Jews to qualify Israel as a distant Soviet republic...


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 07, 2010 4:31 PM
    That old bitch deserved to resign in disgrace. That someone with such hateful ideas was allowed in the White House for so many years is a frightening thought. At least she was exposed at age 89.

    Amazing that in a world of immigrants and transient people, the only people she believes should go "home" are the Jews. This was one of the most virulently anti-semitic public statements in years. Maybe she should move in with Mel Gibson.


    pocketnico Posts: 238
    Jun 07, 2010 4:33 PM
    I suppose she'll want to retire in Arizona...


    Blackguy4you Posts: 4051 Jun 07, 2010 5:04 PM
    darkeyedresolve saidConsidering most people thought she would die in that chair before retiring, it is sad to see this is how her career ends.

    Its usually how you go out is how people will remember you...sometimes


    As the immortal bard said:

    "The evil that men do lives after them
    The good is oft interred with their bones"
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:26 PM GMT
    Caslon14000 Posts: 14824 Jun 07, 2010 5:10 PM
    It is telling that more and more people are getting fed up with Israel's intrangience. Hell, even God lost patience with them...or so they say. ...


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 5:39 PM
    Great example of tolerance, understanding, and being unbiased from the far left lol.

    She either historically illiterate, or just plain hateful (I'm thinking both) in the fact that Jews have been there for a long time. And were rounded up and killed in Europe.

    Sad woman, and good radiance.



    There's a second vid of her coming out tomorrow, going further with her ignorance. It was announced this morning by the dude who took this. Then she came out saying she's resigning lol


    conscienti198... Posts: 491 Jun 07, 2010 5:49 PM
    IHG84 saidGreat example of tolerance, understanding, and being unbiased from the far left lol.

    She either historically illiterate, or just plain hateful (I'm thinking both) in the fact that Jews have been there for a long time. And were rounded up and killed in Europe.

    Sad woman, and good radiance.



    There's a second vid of her coming out tomorrow, going further with her ignorance. It was announced this morning by the dude who took this. Then she came out saying she's resigning lol


    WOW... actually, when I read her quote I thought she had said it in a hateful way.

    Watching that video... I don't see any hatred... sorry. She's just voicing her opinion on the subject and may or may not have her facts wrong.

    I don't agree with what she said, but this was not a hateful anti-semetic rant by a far leftist.

    Someone obviously didn't like what she has said before about Israel and wanted to set her up.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 5:50 PM
    EricLA saidJay, I for one appreciate your comment. It is a touchy subject. Israel's statehood should not be questioned. And it deserves its security. However, I think most reasonable people would agree that Palestinians should not be displaced and deserve their equality and security, as well. A two-state solution seems to make the most sense, but both sides will have to compromise and bury hated and distrust that goes back 100s of years. But, South Africa and Northern Ireland give me hope that peace can be reached.


    Yep I agree 100%. The people of Palestine do need help, support, security, and stability. However as long as Hamas, and other terrorist radical Islamic groups exist, they'll never have that.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 5:53 PM
    conscienti1984 said
    IHG84 saidGreat example of tolerance, understanding, and being unbiased from the far left lol.

    She either historically illiterate, or just plain hateful (I'm thinking both) in the fact that Jews have been there for a long time. And were rounded up and killed in Europe.

    Sad woman, and good radiance.



    There's a second vid of her coming out tomorrow, going further with her ignorance. It was announced this morning by the dude who took this. Then she came out saying she's resigning lol


    WOW... actually, I when I read her quote I thought she had said it in a hateful way.

    Watching that video... I don't see any hatred... sorry. She's just voicing her opinion on the subject and may or may not have her facts wrong.

    I don't agree with what she said, but this was not a hateful anti-semetic rant by a far leftist.

    Someone obviously didn't like what she has said before about Israel and wanted to set her up.


    What she said was absolutely awful and wrong. If a white person came out saying how all blacks should be sent back to Africa, he'd have people jump on him and rightfully so. I don't think people would be too happy if all of a sudden Native Americans started attacking, saying all Whites need to go back to Europe lol.

    She's always been a joke, but this was just absolutely pathetic. The second vid coming out goes more into it, which really is pretty bad and when it got announced early this morning, a few hours later she immediately resigned lol

    It don't matter how she said it, its what she said which was just so wrong.
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:26 PM GMT
    ZbmwM5 Posts: 950
    Jun 07, 2010 5:56 PM
    No one has thought that at age 89 maybe she doesnt give a shit and doesn't feel she has to censor herself in the US, where anything 'anti-Israeli' is turned into a huge event as if it was Pearl Harbor? Should she have said it? No... it doesnt do anything productive. Is it realistic to send those people back? No.... but of course everyone makes a big stink about it.

    It's interesting that no one makes a big deal about all the hateful comments that have been made by Israeli politicians in regard to Arabs and Palestinians.

    "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

    "The Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs." Menachim Begin

    "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

    "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]


    ..... but who gives a shit? They're just Arabs.


    makeumyne Posts: 604
    Jun 07, 2010 6:15 PM
    I thought you guys would be all over her right to free speech - every other dickhead can say what they want. What's gone on here?


    calibro Posts: 2227
    Jun 07, 2010 6:18 PM
    makeumyne saidI thought you guys would be all over her right to free speech - every other dickhead can say what they want. What's gone on here?


    no one is denying she had the right to say that.



    cadudesf Posts: 336
    Jun 07, 2010 6:21 PM
    andymatic saidAn awful way to end an amazing career.


    Agreed. That's what I thought when I heard about this.
    conscienti198... Posts: 491 Jun 07, 2010 6:27 PM
    southbeach1500 said
    makeumyne saidI thought you guys would be all over her right to free speech - every other dickhead can say what they want. What's gone on here?

    *Sigh*

    The right to free speech doesn't mean that you have the right to say whatever you want and your employer can't fire you for it (not that she was fired, though I'm sure the matter was "discussed" between her and her employer).

    There are consequences to what one says.


    I agree. This would be a free speech issue if Obama or Bush or LBJ suppressed her right to free speech.

    This is no different than Gieco firing that voice-over guy for calling teabaggers retarded.


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 07, 2010 6:29 PM
    ZbmwM5 saidNo one has thought that at age 89 maybe she doesnt give a shit and doesn't feel she has to censor herself in the US, where anything 'anti-Israeli' is turned into a huge event as if it was Pearl Harbor? Should she have said it? No... it doesnt do anything productive. Is it realistic to send those people back? No.... but of course everyone makes a big stink about it.

    It's interesting that no one makes a big deal about all the hateful comments that have been made by Israeli politicians in regard to Arabs and Palestinians.

    "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

    "The Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs." Menachim Begin

    "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

    "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]


    ..... but who gives a shit? They're just Arabs.


    Are you a serious person? I have discounted some of the other pro-Palestinian voices here because they strike me as stupid. But, really, you use this American woman's statement that Jews should go back to the two countries that exterminated them as an occasion to talk about Israeli politicians' statement's about Arabs? The fact is that anti-semitism is pretty much required of politicians and journalists in the Middle East, but it is not tolerated in the United States. What relevance does your comment have? Are you so blinded by hatred that you can't condemn an American bigot?

    Shame on you.


    conscienti198... Posts: 491 Jun 07, 2010 6:31 PM
    ZbmwM5 saidNo one has thought that at age 89 maybe she doesnt give a shit and doesn't feel she has to censor herself in the US, where anything 'anti-Israeli' is turned into a huge event as if it was Pearl Harbor? Should she have said it? No... it doesnt do anything productive. Is it realistic to send those people back? No.... but of course everyone makes a big stink about it.

    It's interesting that no one makes a big deal about all the hateful comments that have been made by Israeli politicians in regard to Arabs and Palestinians.

    "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

    "The Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs." Menachim Begin

    "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

    "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]


    ..... but who gives a shit? They're just Arabs.


    Totally! Arabs show their love of Israel and the West in more productive ways... like burning flags, recruiting children to blow themselves up in a crowd of people, flying planes into buildings, bombing embassies, etc.

    And let's not forget their love of women, gays, and infidels!
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    ZbmwM5 Posts: 950
    Jun 07, 2010 6:44 PM


    @NNJFitandbo

    "the fact is that its (antisemitism) pretty much required of politicians and journalists in the middle east..."

    That statement in and of itself shows what kind of an imbecile you are. Generalize, you do.... and so what relevance do your comments have from this point on, none.

    If you read my post at all, You'd see that I said she shouldn't have said it at all. And I also don't think they should go back to Germany or Poland. So just close your mouth now please.

    What infuriates you, methinks, is that I put your anger in perspective. Everyone has the right to get angry and up in arms when these comments are made against Israel and Israelis. But no one bats an eye when someone says awful things about Arabs. I think its interesting.... And it is. Does it make you angry when someone asks a thought provoking question? Apparently.

    But you can go get angry..... go find a punching bag or something... I'm not that concerned with your feelings.


    mascguymia Posts: 23
    Jun 07, 2010 6:47 PM
    What a disgrace!! Good riddance!!


    tazzari Posts: 103
    Jun 07, 2010 6:52 PM
    Helen Thomas was for very many years the one White House reporter who asked the difficult questions. That should be missed.

    She was for many years someone who wrote things that made you think, whether you agreed or not. That should be missed.

    For both reasons, we will be the poorer for her departure, as regrettable as her comments were.

    It is a sad thing that many here seem to think good riddance about her departure. We'll have lost a provocative voice, and those are always both rare and valuable.


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 07, 2010 6:58 PM
    ZbmwM5 said

    @NNJFitandbo

    "the fact is that its (antisemitism) pretty much required of politicians and journalists in the middle east..."

    That statement in and of itself shows what kind of an imbecile you are. Generalize, you do.... and so what relevance do your comments have from this point on, none.

    If you read my post at all, You'd see that I said she shouldn't have said it at all. And I also don't think they should go back to Germany or Poland. So just close your mouth now please.

    What infuriates you, methinks, is that I put your anger in perspective. Everyone has the right to get angry and up in arms when these comments are made against Israel and Israelis. But no one bats an eye when someone says awful things about Arabs. I think its interesting.... And it is. Does it make you angry when someone asks a thought provoking question? Apparently.

    But you can go get angry..... go find a punching bag or something... I'm not that concerned with your feelings.


    You said she shouldn't have said it in one line but used it as an occasion to spout your bullshit. Lip service to avoid being called an anti-semite. Whatever. Co-opt a thread about an anti-semitic American White House journalist. Your rhetoric betrays you. You aren't troubled by Helen Thomas's vitriol, so don't pretend you are.

    And when a member of the White House Press Corps makes blatantly anti-Muslim or anti-Arab statements, you can be sure that I will condemn it. And I won't point out that anti-semitism is rampant in the Middle East because it has nothing to do with the comments of an American journalist.


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 07, 2010 7:02 PM
    tazzari saidHelen Thomas was for very many years the one White House reporter who asked the difficult questions. That should be missed.

    She was for many years someone who wrote things that made you think, whether you agreed or not. That should be missed.

    For both reasons, we will be the poorer for her departure, as regrettable as her comments were.

    It is a sad thing that many here seem to think good riddance about her departure. We'll have lost a provocative voice, and those are always both rare and valuable.


    I understand what you are saying here on one level. I was pretty shocked by her comments, and I have admired her pluck over the years (though I've never found her particularly intelligent or well informed). But I don't see how anyone should feel sorry for her, or miss her. What she is is obvious, an outrageous bigot. And the only appropriate response to her and her non-apology is RAGE.


    ZbmwM5 Posts: 950
    Jun 07, 2010 7:05 PM
    "I understand what you are saying here on one level. I was pretty shocked by her comments. But I don't see how anyone should feel sorry for her, or miss her. What she is is obvious, an outrageous bigot. And the only appropriate response to her and her non-apology is RAGE."

    "RAGE." you've got that one down pat, honey. Try a different emotion. You'd be less boring and two dimensional.


    MenschPress Posts: 535
    Jun 07, 2010 7:05 PM
    She is indeed entitled to her opinion, but I am shocked and saddened that that is her opinion.


    jakebenson Posts: 1719
    Jun 07, 2010 7:06 PM
    I'm laughing at all these people shouting "Freedom of speech!" as a reaction to this as if you are free to say ANYTHING you want while representing your company. I'm not sure if anyone is saying that on Realjock, but it's all over YouTube with, "she has every right to blah blah blah." I think she's absolutely free to say what she wants, and I'm not going to chastise her for saying what she said. But when you work anywhere you have to understand that what you say can affect your job, and your job is not obligated to support you on any crazy idea you have just because you think you are free to say everything without ramifications.

    Meanwhile, sure let's put the Jews back where they belong. That would be United Arab Emrites, Iraq, Germany, Poland, Britain, Palestine (yes I've met Palestinian Jews they showed me their passport), Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Ethiopian, Iran, Russia, France, Jordan, Canada, U.S. what am I missing here?

    But if we do this, then we should send back every American to their origins if their family lineage has only been in the United States for the past 60-100 years. It's gonna look pretty empty here in Los Angeles...

    Good idea?
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    fastprof Posts: 1767
    Jun 07, 2010 7:07 PM
    EricLA saidJay, I for one appreciate your comment. It is a touchy subject. Israel's statehood should not be questioned. And it deserves its security. However, I think most reasonable people would agree that Palestinians should not be displaced and deserve their equality and security,


    What a cogent comment!! I agree wholeheartedly.

    I have to note that the OP posted this to stir-up-shit. I notice also that he makes allusion to deleting the thread if anyone takes him to task (i.e., trying to point out what a hateful comment Helen made) on the issue he tacitly raised to the top of the thread.

    It's an old trick. And I note that he's happily stirring up shit in a number of other threads too.


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 07, 2010 7:09 PM
    JakeBenson saidI'm laughing at all these people shouting "Freedom of speech!" as a reaction to this as if you are free to say ANYTHING you want while representing your company. I'm not sure if anyone is saying that on Realjock, but it's all over YouTube with, "she has every right to blah blah blah." I think she's absolutely free to say what she wants, and I'm not going to chastise her for saying what she said. But when you work anywhere you have to understand that what you say can affect your job, and your job is not obligated to support you on any crazy idea you have just because you think you are free to say everything without ramifications.

    Meanwhile, sure let's put the Jews back where they belong. That would be United Arab Emrites, Iraq, Germany, Poland, Britain, Palestine (yes I've met Palestinian Jews they showed me their passport), Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Ethiopian, Iran, Russia, France, Jordan, Canada, U.S. what am I missing here?

    But if we do this, then we should send back every American to their origins if their family lineage has only been in the United States for the past 60-100 years. It's gonna look pretty empty here in Los Angeles...

    Good idea?


    No, JB, the only people whose migratory patterns are verboten are the Jews. Of course, it's rich that folks like Thomas want the Jews to go back to the places where they were rounded up and sent to death camps.
    tazzari Posts: 103
    Jun 07, 2010 7:10 PM
    " And the only appropriate response to her and her non-apology is RAGE"

    I just don't do rage any more; it seems to me that it rarely accomplishes much. I'm saddened by what she said and that she said it, but I don't see how rage would make matters much better.

    Moreover, rage is usually met with more rage - and little good comes of it.


    ZbmwM5 Posts: 950
    Jun 07, 2010 7:12 PM
    JakeBenson said

    Meanwhile, sure let's put the Jews back where they belong. That would be United Arab Emrites, Iraq, Germany, Poland, Britain, Palestine (yes I've met Palestinian Jews they showed me their passport), Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Ethiopian, Iran, Russia, France, Jordan, Canada, U.S. what am I missing here?


    If they want to go back, they should be allowed to. Wow, we agree for a change? And I think the governments should allow them and treat them like any other citizen. Sadly many governments are not going to... even if the people wanted to return. Too many people displaced in this conflict.


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 07, 2010 7:13 PM
    tazzari said" And the only appropriate response to her and her non-apology is RAGE"

    I just don't do rage any more; it seems to me that it rarely accomplishes much. I'm saddened by what she said and that she said it, but I don't see how rage would make matters much better.

    Moreover, rage is usually met with more rage - and little good comes of it.


    Fair point. This is a personal issue with me. I am a Jew and when I visited Germany, neo-Nazis chased my party and threw stones and bottles at us. That Helen Thomas thinks Israeli Jews should be returned there is infuriating to me. Not that I even think Germany is a particularly anti-semitic country today. It's just not a place where I believe Jews will feel welcome for a long time.


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 07, 2010 7:16 PM
    fastprof said
    EricLA saidJay, I for one appreciate your comment. It is a touchy subject. Israel's statehood should not be questioned. And it deserves its security. However, I think most reasonable people would agree that Palestinians should not be displaced and deserve their equality and security,


    What a cogent comment!! I agree wholeheartedly.

    I have to note that the OP posted this to stir-up-shit. I notice also that he makes allusion to deleting the thread if anyone takes him to task (i.e., trying to point out what a hateful comment Helen made) on the issue he tacitly raised to the top of the thread.

    It's an old trick. And I note that he's happily stirring up shit in a number of other threads too.


    I don't agree with the OP on much. And I am not a Zionist who believes that the Palestinian claim to the same land should be given short shrift. I honestly believe that there will be a two-state solution, like our President does (and believe me, AIPAC isn't loving Obama).

    But I want Helen Thomas and her repugnant views condemned in no uncertain terms. It is that simple: you are with me or against me on this one.


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 07, 2010 7:19 PM
    ZbmwM5 said"I understand what you are saying here on one level. I was pretty shocked by her comments. But I don't see how anyone should feel sorry for her, or miss her. What she is is obvious, an outrageous bigot. And the only appropriate response to her and her non-apology is RAGE."

    "RAGE." you've got that one down pat, honey. Try a different emotion. You'd be less boring and two dimensional.


    Yes, I believe in civilized rage at injustice. Like Martin Luther King. I can differentiate between anger and violence. And I don't wish any violence at all on the batty old bitch who sank her own ship with her disgusting remarks. I just hope she fades away into obscurity like her friend Mel Gibson. So there.


    fastprof Posts: 1767
    Jun 07, 2010 7:25 PM
    NNJfitandbi saidBut I want Helen Thomas and her repugnant views condemned in no uncertain terms. It is that simple: you are with me or against me on this one.


    Hear, hear. I for one agree with you, as you know.

    {Edited to eliminate my stupid typo...thanks to the several who pointed it out}

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    Jun 11, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 07, 2010 7:27 PM
    fastprof said
    NNJfitandbi saidBut I want Helen Thomas and her repugnant views condemned in no uncertain terms. It is that simple: you are with me or against me on this one.


    Here, here. I for one agree with you, as you know.


    Good man.


    FirstKnight Posts: 190
    Jun 07, 2010 7:38 PM
    Does Helen Thomas have dementia? I think so....Elderly individuals suffering from frontotemporal dementia make inappropriate and outrageous statements. At age 89 this is certainly a possibility. It is unfortunate that anyone has to end a long productive career on such an embarrassing comment. She probably should have retired earlier while she still had her mental faculties.
    tazzari Posts: 103
    Jun 07, 2010 7:39 PM
    "Fair point. This is a personal issue with me. I am a Jew and when I visited Germany, neo-Nazis chased my party and threw stones and bottles at us. That Helen Thomas thinks Israeli Jews should be returned there is infuriating to me. Not that I even think Germany is a particularly anti-semitic country today. It's just not a place where I believe Jews will feel welcome for a long time."

    Actually, I don't blame you for the anger; the neo-nazi story is dreadful, and I'm sorry that should have happened. Thanks for sharing it, though it hurts to read it.

    Nat


    Caslon14000 Posts: 14824 Jun 07, 2010 8:20 PM
    If the Israelis can't come to terms and live peacefully and fairly with their neighbors, then maybe Israel should be shut down. The rest of the world shouldn't be held hostage to a country that refuses to compromise and live peacefully.

    It has been 60 years that the other side has been waiting. It's no wonder that they have lost patience with Israel.


    flex89 Posts: 1574
    Jun 07, 2010 8:48 PM
    Caslon14000 saidIf the Israelis can't come to terms and live peacefully and fairly with their neighbors, then maybe Israel should be shut down. The rest of the world shouldn't be held hostage to a country that refuses to compromise and live peacefully.

    It has been 60 years that the other side has been waiting. It's no wonder that they have lost patience with Israel.


    No shit. Lord knows enough of us are thinking more or less the same way. Shame the old bag had to get bagged for thinking it loudly.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 9:04 PM
    joshnyz said
    helen thomas famtree

    LMFAO


    Caslon14000 Posts: 14824 Jun 07, 2010 9:05 PM
    And it has been asked for the past 60 years, that since it was Germany who was responsible for the Holocaust, why was it the Palestinians that list their land to make a haven for the Jews of Europe? Why weren't the Jews given North Rheinland-Westphalia instead?

    It's like the US saying "Oh you poor Blacks suffered so much from slavery. Here, have Ontario." Huh? So you give them a place you don't own? That's bullshit.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 9:08 PM
    She's a hateful old woman, and what she said are the same things the president of Iran, and other antisemitic people have said.

    She's also historically illiterate, as many other people are with how Israel came to be.

    There will never be peace in the Middle East, as long as radical Islam exist plain and simple. And that's a horrible sad thing for all the Arabs, who become victims when their radical religious leaders put them in harms way, or even kill them if they try to speak out against it.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 9:12 PM
    Caslon14000 saidAnd it has been asked for the past 60 years, that since it was Germany who was responsible for the Holocaust, why was it the Palestinians that list their land to make a haven for the Jews of Europe? Why weren't the Jews given North Rheinland-Westphalia instead?

    It's like the US saying "Oh you poor Blacks suffered so much from slavery. Here, have Ontario." Huh? So you give them a place you don't own? That's bullshit.


    Actually Caslon, the land that was given to the Jews, was British occupied land.. Land that nobody wanted. It was given to them when Chaim who was also a huge voice for Israel's statehood, but also Chemist helped the Brits greatly during WWI. Britain would have been destroyed if he didn't do what he did. (they don't teach that in history books shhh)

    The Arabs who never made a fuss when Britain had that land, began having a bitch fit when the Jews were returning, because there has always been a lot of fighting between them. The Arab nations then aligned themselves with Nazi Germany, Fascist Japan, and Italy during WWII, all of them had hatred for the Jews, even the Russians did when Russia and Germany were friends at first. Iran even changed its name from Persia to Iran because of this alliance with Nazi Germany. Iran means "Land of the Aryans" in Farsi.

    I don't deny Israel has been heavy handed at times. But the fact is as long as you have radical Islamic leadership, you're going to have violence and death, not just in Middle East, but everywhere. They do not respect life, and this has been said by them many times. You won't find any complaints from the Arabs living there in peace able to say and do as they please, and aren't forced into a religion or way of life that doesn't suit them... Especially if he is gay.


    Caslon14000 Posts: 14824 Jun 07, 2010 9:28 PM
    IHG84 said"... Land that nobody wanted. ... "


    Land that nobody wanted???? Are you totally daft? The people living there wanted the land! The British mandate after WWI didnt give the right to give the land away to anybody. They were supposed to be administering it for the people who lived there after the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

    It was pure European racism that caused this. Nobody else in the world counted by Europeans. Just like Britian declared Australia as uninhabited and totally dismissed the people living there already.
    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 9:36 PM
    Caslon14000 said
    IHG84 said"... Land that nobody wanted. ... "


    Land that nobody wanted???? Are you totally daft? The people living there wanted the land! The British mandate after WWI didnt give the right to give the land away to anybody. They were supposed to be administering it for the people who lived there after the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

    It was pure European racism that caused this. Nobody else in the world counted by Europeans. Just like Britain declared Australia as uninhabited and totally dismissed the people living there already.


    Wrong again.. There weren't any people there, and the British gave it to the Jews, after Chaim pretty much saved Britain with what he did.

    The thing is, there has just always been hatred between Arabs, and Jews. And the Arabs (not all of course), don't want to share anything with the Jews at all.

    To say the Jews were never there, or don't have a right to be there is just wrong. They've always been there and just went back after WWII.
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:28 PM GMT
    Caslon14000 Posts: 14824 Jun 07, 2010 9:39 PM
    IHG84 said
    Caslon14000 said
    IHG84 said"... Land that nobody wanted. ... "


    Land that nobody wanted???? Are you totally daft? The people living there wanted the land! The British mandate after WWI didnt give the right to give the land away to anybody. They were supposed to be administering it for the people who lived there after the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

    It was pure European racism that caused this. Nobody else in the world counted by Europeans. Just like Britain declared Australia as uninhabited and totally dismissed the people living there already.


    Wrong again.. There weren't any people there, and the British gave it to the Jews, after Chaim pretty much saved Britain with what he did.

    The thing is, there has just always been hatred between Arabs, and Jews. And the Arabs (not all of course), don't want to share anything with the Jews at all.

    To say the Jews were never there, or don't have a right to be there is just wrong. They've always been there and just went back after WWII.

    You have got your history so wrong, there is no use talking to you. ....Next!


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 9:41 PM
    Caslon14000 said
    IHG84 said
    Caslon14000 said
    IHG84 said"... Land that nobody wanted. ... "


    Land that nobody wanted???? Are you totally daft? The people living there wanted the land! The British mandate after WWI didnt give the right to give the land away to anybody. They were supposed to be administering it for the people who lived there after the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

    It was pure European racism that caused this. Nobody else in the world counted by Europeans. Just like Britain declared Australia as uninhabited and totally dismissed the people living there already.


    Wrong again.. There weren't any people there, and the British gave it to the Jews, after Chaim pretty much saved Britain with what he did.

    The thing is, there has just always been hatred between Arabs, and Jews. And the Arabs (not all of course), don't want to share anything with the Jews at all.

    To say the Jews were never there, or don't have a right to be there is just wrong. They've always been there and just went back after WWII.

    You have got your history so wrong, there is no use talking to you. ....Next!


    Actually its you who not only has his history wrong, but it also seems you follow the same propaganda Hamas, and other Hamas supporters like to spew.

    Why doesn't the U.N do more to help out the people of Palestine? Why don't people condemn Hamas, which obviously is doing no good for the people? There's a lot of questions you should be asking yourself, but you're just not honest enough to.


    tereseus1 Posts: 1459
    Jun 07, 2010 10:06 PM
    i dont think that was her...for gods sake shes 82....maybe shes getting senile...And for the love of god ive been reading up on this conflict and i still dont have a clue who really belongs where....on that piece of land.


    Caslon14000 Posts: 14824 Jun 07, 2010 10:12 PM
    shybuffguy said" ... But the Issue was Helen Thomas and not Israel."

    Well, actually I think it's about her remarks, too, not just the lady herself.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 10:14 PM
    shybuffguy said
    Caslon14000 said
    IHG84 said"... Land that nobody wanted. ... "


    Land that nobody wanted???? Are you totally daft? The people living there wanted the land! The British mandate after WWI didnt give the right to give the land away to anybody. They were supposed to be administering it for the people who lived there after the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

    It was pure European racism that caused this. Nobody else in the world counted by Europeans. Just like Britian declared Australia as uninhabited and totally dismissed the people living there already.


    The people living there didn't want the land, hey sold it !


    Yep, I remember reading about that too. Its stuff they won't teach you in history books lol.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 07, 2010 10:22 PM
    shybuffguy saidTre thread wasn't abou Israel, it was abou what Thomas said.

    The sad fact is hat this isn't the first time she has said such things about Israel. She said similar things back in 2006 when it caused, then WhiterHouse press secretary, Tony Snow to quip: "Well, thank you Helen for the Hezbollah view". What happened was she removed her own mask and showed the world what and who she really is. She has always been biased and has never shown the objectivity that the press has always clkaimed to have.

    She may have broken many glass ceilings and should be applauded for that, but she was never objective. When she was no longer a reporter and began doing opinion pieces, she should have been removed from he press corps. It's obvious that she was forced out, which is a wrong, because now no one will ever be able to ask her what exactly she ment by her comments.

    Having given her her due, I say good-bye and I for one am glad to see her go!


    I remember when she found out she had some Jewish in her, when she was going over her family history. When she talked about the little Jewish heritage she said it as if she was disgusted by it lol.

    She's always been a far left person with some antisemitic views, it just came out big time in this little vid and I'm curious to see the second part tomorrow that the guy is supposed to be releasing.


    CarbGoggles
    Posts: 230
    Jun 07, 2010 10:23 PM
    DCEric saidI am sure this thread will be full of constructive statements that will further the understanding of the two peoples bitterly divided in this conflict, and the millions who care. Also, unicorns are real.


    I FUCKN KNEW UNICORNS WERE REAL!!!

    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 07, 2010 11:59 PM
    As usual, the anti-Israel spammers attempt to hijack the topic:
    sxydrkhair saidIt is the Zionists' idea that want to wipe Palestinians out of their lands, so they can have a majority Jewish population in Israel. Zionists still use the word "Transfers" or "a land without a people for a people without a land." They're still in denial the ethnic cleansing what they did in the past and still doing it now.
    Reality:
    1947-1948: Arabs reject compromise and attack Israel
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/960691

    Guess who still rejects compromise and peaceful coexistence, 62+ years later:
    In search of a solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict: UNSCR 242, Oslo and Camp David/Taba
    (Or: I support the Clinton COMPROMISE parameters. Do you?!)
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/354843
    ZbmwM5 said"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

    At the time it was a statement of fact. Prior to 1948 the Arabs of Mandate Palestine (the Jewish state-to-be) denied that there was a "Palestine" or "Palestinians" (the term technically referring to all citizens of Mandate Palestine, but in practice used by the Jews and rejected by the Arabs. Between 1948-1967 no one considered Gaza or Judea/Samaria (then Trans/Jordan's so-called "West Bank") to be "occupied". The Arab imperative wasn't the establishment of another Arab state but remained the destruction of Israel. Only after 1967 did the concept of "Palestinian Arab self-determination" begin to appear.


    ZbmwM5> "The Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs." Menachim Begin

    More honest people than ZbmwM5 provide the "quote" as "[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs". Except that they are also lying. Begin said "They" and he wasn't referring to the Palestian Arabs but specifically to terrorists who had just perpetrated a heinous attack. Imagine if Clinton had said "the
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:28 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 08, 2010 1:44 AM
    Caesarea4 got his fact all wrong about the Palestinian history. He is in denial the existence of Palestinians as a people or a nation. He also in denial the Israeli settlements, Israeli aparthied and occupations are illegal.

    There is no point arguing with this loser. He also met terrorist Rabbi Kahane.
    Lostboy Posts: 6631
    Jun 08, 2010 1:54 AM
    JakeBenson saidMeanwhile, sure let's put the Jews back where they belong. That would be United Arab Emrites, Iraq, Germany, Poland, Britain, Palestine (yes I've met Palestinian Jews they showed me their passport), Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Ethiopian, Iran, Russia, France, Jordan, Canada, U.S. what am I missing here?

    But if we do this, then we should send back every American to their origins if their family lineage has only been in the United States for the past 60-100 years. It's gonna look pretty empty here in Los Angeles...

    Good idea?


    You forgot the crucial part: when you send Americans back to their countries of origin you have to claim that the people currently living there have no right to be there and should get out. Ireland is the traditional American homeland!


    swimbikerun Posts: 2229
    Jun 08, 2010 2:02 AM
    There isn't enough room for someone to voice an opinion? It's not like she said Jews should die. She said they should simply get out of Palestine. There seems to be a lot of attacking her personally and not focusing the discussion of what she dared to bring up.

    Why shouldn't Jews move? Does might make right?
    If you accept the fact that repatriating Jews en masse to Germany and Poland is untenable then you must accept the need for Jews to make peace where they are presently located. Will Jews ever know peace any other way?

    Or is this more about Zionist fantasies?


    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 08, 2010 2:11 AM
    IHG84 saidGreat example of tolerance, understanding, and being unbiased from the far left lol.

    She either historically illiterate, or just plain hateful (I'm thinking both) in the fact that Jews have been there for a long time. And were rounded up and killed in Europe.

    Sad woman, and good radiance.


    There's a second vid of her coming out tomorrow, going further with her ignorance. It was announced this morning by the dude who took this. Then she came out saying she's resigning lol


    She is not a sad woman or hateful. I think you're a sad person and ignorant. If wasn't for Hitler or European racism, there probably wouldn’t be an Israel Jewish state at all since until then most Jews were not Zionists. After the Holocaust happened, Israel has caused more Jewish deaths than anything else.


    gym_dude Posts: 99
    Jun 08, 2010 2:12 AM
    Good for Helen!! She voiced HER opinion which she is entitled too! She was ASKED if she had any comments re: Israel and she shared them - freedom of speech and all that. I applaud her...Pity she apologised later!! She should have stuck by her remarks. What I really think was bad was all those people condemning her, just for sharing her opinion, quite rightly, that they should get out of Palestine! Shame really!!


    CarbGoggles Posts: 230
    Jun 08, 2010 2:13 AM
    It's so annoying how the media blows things sooooo far out of proportion. I feel like I'm watching a world cup match. The tinniest instance of contact with the opposing team and OMG I THINK IT'S BROKEN!!! It's pretty pathetic. This woman exercised her freedom of speech. She was asked for her opinion and she gave it. Should we all be afraid to speak our mind for fear of being stoned to death by the many who are clearly innocent?


    CarbGoggles Posts: 230
    Jun 08, 2010 2:14 AM
    gym_dude saidGood for Helen!! She voiced HER opinion which she is entitled too! She was ASKED if she had any comments re: Israel and she shared them - freedom of speech and all that. I applaud her...Pity she apologised later!! She should have stuck by her remarks. What I really think was bad was all those people condemning her, just for sharing her opinion, quite rightly, that they should get out of Palestine! Shame really!!


    I totally agree and I have yet to find a unicorn... The second post to this thread confirmed they were real.


    swimbikerun Posts: 2229
    Jun 08, 2010 2:15 AM
    gym_dude saidGood for Helen!! She voiced HER opinion which she is entitled too! She was ASKED if she had any comments re: Israel and she shared them - freedom of speech and all that. I applaud her...Pity she apologised later!! She should have stuck by her remarks. What I really think was bad was all those people condemning her, just for sharing her opinion, quite rightly, that they should get out of Palestine! Shame really!!
    Yeah, you Limeys started the whole thing!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917


    gym_dude Posts: 99
    Jun 08, 2010 2:24 AM
    CarbGoggles said
    gym_dude saidGood for Helen!! She voiced HER opinion which she is entitled too! She was ASKED if she had any comments re: Israel and she shared them - freedom of speech and all that. I applaud her...Pity she apologised later!! She should have stuck by her remarks. What I really think was bad was all those people condemning her, just for sharing her opinion, quite rightly, that they should get out of Palestine! Shame really!!


    I totally agree and I have yet to find a unicorn... The second post to this thread confirmed they were real.


    Mind if i help you look for it??????
    jusTom Posts: 126
    Jun 08, 2010 2:29 AM
    she should go back to lebanon or syria [her parents came from there]

    btw [im quoting the media] her only jurnalistic ''achivment'' was that pat nixon got married....


    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 08, 2010 2:40 AM
    sxydrkhair saidCaesarea4 got his fact all wrong about the Palestinian history. ...There is no point arguing with this loser.

    ROTFL. At least you admit that I have FACTs on my side.
    If you could counter and refute them you would.
    Instead you simply seek to expand the discussion with new spam propaganda soundbites, slogans and lies.
    All of which are already refuted here:

    "Palestine" is the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish homeland
    - and Arab denials of the existence of "Palestine".
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/349491

    Samer> If wasn't for Hitler or European racism, there probably wouldn’t be an Israel Jewish state

    The Mandate of Palestine was established following WW I with the purpose of re-establishing the Jewish state in the Jewish homeland (then known as "Palestine", which at that time was not the name of an Arab group). If not for WW II, Israel may have been established even sooner (consider that the first proposed compromise partition of western Mandate Palestine was in 1937, an effort that was suspended due to the war).


    Samer> After the Holocaust happened, Israel has caused more Jewish deaths than anything else.

    Really? More than 6 million Jews have died because of Israel?
    Or is this thinly veiled Holocaust denial?

    Talk about a "blame the victim" mentality.
    Arabs violently attack Jews/Israel for decades, and it is Israel's fault ("cause")?
    Just like pretty dresses and lipstick (not aggressive men) have caused women to get raped?


    Back to this topic:

    Those continuing to talk about "freedom of speech" are ignorant of two points:
    No one has denied Thomas her right to speech (like we can?).

    Just as she has the right to speak her bile, others have the right to criticize her.
    (Or are you trying to suppress our "freedom of speech"?!)

    I wonde
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:29 PM GMT
    Carolinaagger Posts: 14
    Jun 08, 2010 2:56 AM
    She definitely ended it with a bang........ Tho everyone is entitled to their own opinions, being a journalist, her comments were a Big No No.

    jrunner25 Posts: 808
    Jun 08, 2010 4:20 AM
    Poland? Germany? but my mother is from Iran LOL. someone didnt do her research (:
    Ez4711 Posts: 14
    Jun 08, 2010 8:20 AM
    southbeach1500 saidI came across this over the weekend and was shocked that someone who has made their living covering politics for the past 50+ years would say such a thing.

    Apparently, she has just announced her retirement.
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/onmedia/0610/Helen_Thomas_retires.html


    The shocking thing is that she is niether Jewish or Muslium and belives that she can speak for both.


    CarbGoggles Posts: 230
    Jun 08, 2010 8:49 AM
    Ez4711 said
    southbeach1500 saidI came across this over the weekend and was shocked that someone who has made their living covering politics for the past 50+ years would say such a thing.

    Apparently, she has just announced her retirement.
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/onmedia/0610/Helen_Thomas_retires.html


    The shocking thing is that she is niether Jewish or Muslium and belives that she can speak for both.

    What!? That's stupid. Your comment is about as shocking as the media's response to her comments. Since when did you have to be of any faith to have an opinion and what is Muslium lol?


    CarbGoggles Posts: 230
    Jun 08, 2010 8:52 AM
    jrunner25 saidPoland? Germany? but my mother is from Iran LOL. someone didnt do her research (:

    Dude she's 90... She doesn't have time to go through all the countries that jews originated from lol.
    Lostboy Posts: 6631
    Jun 08, 2010 8:55 AM
    Actually Ur of the Chaldees is in Southern Iraq, then benei Yisrael wandered off to Israel and wrote their book to justify their presence there. And BOY do they go on about it... Send them all back to Iraq!


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 08, 2010 9:10 AM
    IHG84 said

    She's always been a joke, but this was just absolutely pathetic. The second vid coming out goes more into it, which really is pretty bad and when it got announced early this morning, a few hours later she immediately resigned lol

    It don't matter how she said it, its what she said which was just so wrong.


    What? Really? She has always been a joke? According to ... you? This coming from a guy who thinks Fox News contains fair and balanced reporting.

    Helen Thomas has been a journalist since 1943 and until this latest snafu, happened to be one of the most well-respected journalists in the world. Granted, what she said was wrong, but this is America, isn't it? You do know we're living in America, don't you?

    You are one of the biggest hypocrites on this site.


    BiGymGuy Posts: 1007
    Jun 08, 2010 9:12 AM
    I love Helen Thomas...


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 08, 2010 9:24 AM
    reppaT said
    IHG84 said


    Helen Thomas has been a journalist since 1943 and until this latest snafu, happened to be one of the most well-respected journalists in the world. Granted, what she said was wrong, but this is America, isn't it? You do know we're living in America, don't you?


    I think you are overstating it to a large degree. She was a pioneer for women and certainly deserves credit for blazing a new trail and for her steadfastness. No one intimidated Helen Thomas. Sometimes the crazy ones achieve something because, in the right context, they have traits that make them effective. No doubt that it was a thrill to see her attempt to take down the high and mighty with her questions, and to watch her not back down. I'm not sure she was ever respected for her intellect. She was more of a showperson than someone whose fine mind led to big stories. And now we know she's a bigot.

    Thomas was to the Left what a lot of Fox News jerks are to the right except the Left had the class not to give her a show where she would have to express her own views. I know she has been a columnist, but did she ever really write an important column? I'm asking because I don't know the answer. I haven't read her column. I certainly am not aware that her opinions have been thought of as influential, but as I said, I could be wrong.

    Don't make Helen Thomas into Sam Donaldson. He had the same relentless, cantankerous personality, but it was also clear that he has a fine mind.


    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 08, 2010 9:31 AM
    Lostboy> Ur of the Chaldees is in Southern Iraq, then benei Yisrael wandered off to Israel and wrote their book to justify their presence there.

    That book actually has a lot more to do with backstory for different Canaanite tribes banding together to form a confederation (perhaps to counter the Philistine invasion). Consider, for example, the sons of Jacob, not just who was from which wives, but which were from concubines.

    There's no historical record of Abraham (further backdrop?) or even the Exodus or Joshua's battles (many happened earlier).

    There is historical record that the Hebrew tribes were Canaanites (e.g. Asher is known as such from earlier Egyptian records).

    There is archeological evidence of a gradual transformation by these Canaanites who settled the then-vacant highlands. They start out with typical Canaanite architecture and pottery, even eating pork, and then - over a century, things change and the Israelite confederation evolves.


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 08, 2010 9:42 AM
    NNJfitandbi said
    reppaT said
    IHG84 said


    Helen Thomas has been a journalist since 1943 and until this latest snafu, happened to be one of the most well-respected journalists in the world. Granted, what she said was wrong, but this is America, isn't it? You do know we're living in America, don't you?


    I think you are overstating it to a large degree. She was a pioneer for women and certainly deserves credit for blazing a new trail and for her steadfastness. No one intimidated Helen Thomas. Sometimes the crazy ones achieve something because, in the right context, they have traits that make them effective. No doubt that it was a thrill to see her attempt to take down the high and mighty with her questions, and to watch her not back down. I'm not sure she was ever respected for her intellect. She was more of a showperson than someone whose fine mind led to big stories. And now we know she's a bigot.

    Thomas was to the Left what a lot of Fox News jerks are to the right except the Left had the class not to give her a show where she would have to express her own views. I know she has been a columnist, but did she ever really write an important column? I'm asking because I don't know the answer. I haven't read her column. I certainly am not aware that her opinions have been thought of as influential, but as I said, I could be wrong.

    Don't make Helen Thomas into Sam Donaldson. He had the same relentless, cantankerous personality, but it was also clear that he has a fine mind.


    Helen Thomas cannot hold a candle to San Donaldson, but I don't know of any modern day political journalists capable of holding a candle to Helen Thomas. After all, it's mostly guts, not intelligence, that make for a great political reporter.


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 08, 2010 9:43 AM
    southbeach1500 saidWarning to Caesarea4.

    Discuss Helen Thomas on this thread please.

    If you wish to post your usual Israel stuff, please start your own thread.

    Again, please discusss Helen Thomas on this thread and not your usual Israel stuff.

    Thanks for your cooperation.


    Who are you, the official RJ forum Nazi? Do us all
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:29 PM GMT
    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 08, 2010 10:11 AM
    southbeach1500 said
    reppaT saidWho are you, the official RJ forum Nazi? Do us all a favor and delete the thread, already. Please, just do it.

    Apparently I am a person who - without even trying - irritates you very much.

    ROTFL. It appears, even if without trying, that you "irritate" most people.

    Nor am I sure why you selective "warn" me given that all I did was respond to what a handful of others said
    Why no warning to sxydrkhair or zbmwm5 who rushed to post their anti-Israel spam propaganda?
    Makes it look like you'd rather censor just one side of the discussion.


    Warning to southbeach:
    I suspect that if you delete this thread (and it will be at least your 3rd, not second) that most people will simply ignore your threads in the future.

    Warning to everyone:
    I would suggest to people that anytime southbeach starts a thread, rather than respond to it, a new thread be started.
    That way he can't threaten to go home with his bat & ball.


    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 08, 2010 11:49 AM
    Caesarea4 said
    "Palestine" is the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish homeland - and Arab denials of the existence of "Palestine"

    You see anything wrong with this sentence? Quoting around Palestine like they don't exist. Arabs never denial of the existence of Palestine. That's plain propaganda. Like what Edward Said, "Palestine used to be an Arab country end of the seventh century," when Arab Muslims took over. It is Israelis that are in denial of the existence of Palestine today. Like yourself quoting around Palestine like that word never exist.
    Caesarea4 said
    The Mandate of Palestine was established following WW I with the purpose of re-establishing the Jewish state in the Jewish homeland (then known as "Palestine", which at that time was not the name of an Arab group). If not for WW II, Israel may have been established even sooner (consider that the first proposed compromise partition of western Mandate Palestine was in 1937, an effort that was suspended due to the war).

    According to the British Mandate of Palestine say 93% was owned by Palestinians and others. Many Palestinians today have papers to prove they own the land, not the British government. 80% of Palestinian people were dispossessed of their homes, farms, and businesses.


    Caesarea4 said
    Really? More than 6 million Jews have died because of Israel?
    Or is this thinly veiled Holocaust denial?


    I am not a Holocaust denial and I feel sad when 6 millions Jews were killed by Hilter and Nazis. If wasn't the Holocaust or any anti-Semitic in Europe, then there will be no Jewish state in Palestine. You see where I am going? The only reason why the Zionist want a Jewish nation because they want to escape religious persecution or the Holocaust in Europe. They need to understand the Holocaust is already over and there are millions other people were killed too in the Holocaust. Many Jews back than were anti-Zionists because European Jews had lived for many many generations upon feeling less then human, different, unwanted than any other Jews around the world. If you read some of the early Zionists works you will be amazed just how much they seemed to AGREE with anti-Semites! Some of them were good allied with Nazis. - Nazis support Zionists

    I think you agree that colonialism is stupid and people should not go off claiming other people’s homes as their own.


    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 08, 2010 1:43 PM
    "Palestine" is the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish homeland
    - and Arab denials of the existence of "Palestine".
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/349491

    Samer> Arabs never denial of the existence of Palestine

    Follow the link. In the first half of the 20th century, the Arabs who had colonized "Palestine" (then the Latin/European name for the Land of Israel) claimed that there was no such place as "Palestine" (it was, they said, "southern Syria") and that there were no "Palestinians". Only after failing to steal this land by war [in 1948] did these Arabs begin to call themselves "Palestinians", stealing the name and perpetrating one of the greatest hoaxes of the 20th century.


    Samer> According to the British Mandate of Palestine say 93% was owned by Palestinians and others

    No, that's not at all what the Royal Survey of [Mandate] Palestine showed. These are cooked figures made by propagandists like you who break the category into "Jewish" and "Arab and other", where "other" includes public lands not privately owned by anyone. Again, there is a full refutation of your propaganda lie in the link above. Since you continue to lie about this in each new topic, I'll soon create a topic dedicated to this.


    Samer> Edward Said [said], "Palestine used to be an Arab country end of the seventh century," when Arab Muslims took over

    Yes, Arab Muslims invaded, conquered and colonized this land in the 7th century, but it wasn't a "country". Filastin (the foreigners couldn't even correctly pronounce the "P" consonant which isn't found in Arabic) was a military district of the Umayyad dynasty (empire) based in Damascus. (This is like claiming that the "Green Zone" in Iraq is an American country.

    There is already a topic dedicated to this subject:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/979648


    Samer> After the Holocaust happened, Israel has caused more Jewish deaths than anything else.

    C4> Really? More than 6 million Jews have died because of Israel?
    Or is this thinly veiled Holocaust denial?

    SDH> I am not a Holocaust denial

    Then explain for us how Israel has "caused more Jewish deaths than anything else".
    Obviously you can't. You just lied for the cause, again.
    You are such a pathological and compulsive liar that you just can't stop yourself from making such statements, no matter how transparently wrong.

    C4> Talk about a "blame the victim" mentality.
    Arabs violently attack Jews/Israel for decades, and it is Israel's fault ("cause")?
    Just like pretty dresses and lipstick (not aggressive men) have caused women to get raped?

    Samer> [silence]


    Samer> Nazis support Zionists

    This nonsense, again?
    It is true that some Zionists attempted to work with (not "support") the nazis in order to cut a deal and rescue Jews that were going to be slaughtered.

    Yet it was Muhammed Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem and the head of the Arab Higher Committee (as the organization that represented the ARABS of Mandate Palestine was called) who collaborated with the nazis - spent much of the war in hitler's bunker - and attempted to get the nazis to bring their "final solution" to the mideast.


    Samer> colonialism is stupid and people should not go off claiming other people’s [land]

    So, to get back to what Helen Thomas said (you do realize that is the topic here, right?), was it wrong for foreign Arab empires to invade, conquer and colonize the Jewish homeland? Do you think that the "Arabs should go back to Arabia"?
    swimbikerun Posts: 2229
    Jun 08, 2010 1:48 PM

    Israel, Palestine Now Fighting Over Cemetery Space


    MenschPress Posts: 535
    Jun 08, 2010 2:20 PM
    southbeach1500 saidHey Caesarea4,

    Since you don't care to post about Helen Thomas.... why don't you create your own thread where you can post your usual Israel stuff, instead of always invading other people's topics with your constant retorts, counterpoints and history lessons about Israel?

    Seriously.... what you're posting has nothing to do with Helen Thomas, which really is (or was) the topic of this thread.

    I mean, really, if you posted a thread about Israel, how would you feel if I and others came in and started posting lengthy essays on Madonna or whether fish is better broiled or baked?


    He's responding to sxydrkhair. Didn't you see th
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:29 PM GMT
    MenschPress Posts: 535
    Jun 08, 2010 2:38 PM
    southbeach1500 saidMost on here don't agree with my point of view on things, but at least I stay on topic (for the most part).


    Well then, stop talking about yourself. ;-)


    MelB4Ever Posts: 19
    Jun 08, 2010 4:30 PM
    pocketnico saidIf the USSR still existed, there would be enough Russian and Ukrainian Jews to qualify Israel as a distant Soviet republic...


    I'm a jew from Uzbekistan..don't forget that.


    MelB4Ever Posts: 19
    Jun 08, 2010 5:01 PM
    ZbmwM5 said

    @NNJFitandbo

    "the fact is that its (antisemitism) pretty much required of politicians and journalists in the middle east..."

    That statement in and of itself shows what kind of an imbecile you are. Generalize, you do.... and so what relevance do your comments have from this point on, none.

    If you read my post at all, You'd see that I said she shouldn't have said it at all. And I also don't think they should go back to Germany or Poland. So just close your mouth now please.

    What infuriates you, methinks, is that I put your anger in perspective. Everyone has the right to get angry and up in arms when these comments are made against Israel and Israelis. But no one bats an eye when someone says awful things about Arabs. I think its interesting.... And it is. Does it make you angry when someone asks a thought provoking question? Apparently.

    But you can go get angry..... go find a punching bag or something... I'm not that concerned with your feelings.


    That's so not true at least in NY, I live in NY and I never hear people say negative stuff about Arabs...people always standing up for them and not tolerating discrimination against them and saying how not all muslim arabs are terrorists..that its just a stereotype yet I see Muslim people complaining all time on the news that they are being harassed and treated unfairly. Its strange because I have never witnessed that and have yet to see that in front of my eyes. Maybe..I'm wrong..because I'm not Muslim myself and I'll never know what its like to be one.

    On the other hand, I constantly witness people putting down Jews and saying shit about them, sometimes even having hateful graffiti on subways and elsewhere and the Jews never complain or say a thing about it. Its like Jews are used to that discrimination that they don't do anything about it.

    I do wanna bring up a good example...If someone said anything about African Americans of that nature..I'm sure nobody will tolerate it and it would be a huge deal. So why should Jews tolerate it? They did the right thing by firing her ass.


    Webster666 Posts: 2332
    Jun 09, 2010 3:23 AM
    I think that the demented bitter old hag should lead the next flotilla of militant activist terrorist sympathizers full speed ahead right into Gaza !


    Webster666 Posts: 2332
    Jun 09, 2010 3:31 AM
    Caslon14000 saidIf the Israelis can't come to terms and live peacefully and fairly with their neighbors, then maybe Israel should be shut down. The rest of the world shouldn't be held hostage to a country that refuses to compromise and live peacefully.

    It has been 60 years that the other side has been waiting. It's no wonder that they have lost patience with Israel.




    Are you out of your fuckin' mind ?
    History shows, and you and the rest of the world knows very well that, for the past 60 years, all of Israel's neighbors have declared war on Israel and LOST. They have continuously tried to terrorize Israel and LOST.
    With the exception of the Hamas and the Palestinians, all the neighbors have learned to let Israel alone to live in peace.

    For the past 60 years, the only thing the other side has been waiting for is for Israel to go away.

    Well, it ain't gonna happen.

    Hamas and the Palestinians would rather DIE than see Israel live in peace.
    And, so it shall be.


    shutoman Posts: 52
    Jun 09, 2010 8:05 AM
    Helen Thomas is not really known in the UK. But her comments are deeply disturbing, deserve outright condemnation and were good cause for her resignation (or, frankly, dismissal).


    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 09, 2010 8:36 AM
    Didn't, according to the Old Testament, the Israelites come out of Egypt originally? And didn't God tell the Israelites they had to drive out the Hivites, Jebusites, Hittites, Amalakites, Amonites and Perrizites from their homes and massacre them in order to get Israel??

    And didn't the Irgun and countless other Zionist groups launch vicious terrorist attacks against British soldiers (including hanging servicemen from orange groves) in order to press the initiative for an Israeli state?

    Actually the Biblical account is mostly untrue. The Hebrew people originated in Mesopotamia (yes, long before the Babylonian captivity). There was no exodus out of Egypt, for the simple fact that there are no records of any Jewish slaves ever existing in Egypt - and the Egyptians chronicled nearly all of their history. Yes there does appear to have been a Hebrew civilization existing in the Levant area at around the time of Christ - albeit a rather modest one.

    But to all the pro-Israel people on here who were so disgusted with Ellen Thomas's remarks, the absurdity of the idea of "sending people back to where they belong" actually works precisely the other way - Recreating in 1948 a country that had been dead for 2,000 years like Israel for Jews to return to (on the authority of the Bible), was no less absurd than than the idea of sending all Brits with Saxon names back to Germany.
    No wonder the Zionists considered creating Israel in Madagascar, Patagonia and Uganda, before choosing Palestine!

    "Israel - a land without a people for a people without a land". That statement was wrong twice.

    And yes those were harsh words by Ellen Thomas. But after 60+ years of Zionist madness and the resultant degeneration of the Middle East into something resembling a tinderbox - completely understandable. Indeed if Israel's beloved doyenne Golda Meir can get away with the repugnant bile she felt entitled to spout on a daily basis, Ellen Thomas can too.

    But never mind. The message is "Don't mess with Jehovah and his theological Lebensraum". Mad West Bank settlers and 70 million tub-thumping Evangelical Christians in America's Midwest wouldn't have it any other way.

    After all, many Israelis are still waiting for the Messiah to arrive - and he may yet tarry.


    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 09, 2010 9:02 AM
    Big up to ZbmwM5 and Calson14000!!!

    Keep the faith guys!


    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 09, 2010 9:23 AM
    It's amazing how some crawl out from under their rocks when they see others making racist hatist statements.

    Look how pouncer opens with an argument he knows is false just in order to tarnish:

    pouncer> Didn't, according to the Old Testament, the Israelites come out of Egypt originally? And didn't God tell the Israelites they had to drive out the Hivites, Jebusites, Hittites, Amalakites, Amonites and Perrizites from their homes and massacre them in order to get Israel??

    pouncer> Actually the Biblical account is mostly untrue.

    So why bring it up?


    pouncer> The Hebrew people originated in Mesopotamia (yes, long before the Babylonian captivity).

    You have archeological or historical evidence of this?

    Because the existing historical and archeological evidence indicates that the Hebrews were of Canaanite origin.


    pouncer> there does appear to have been a Hebrew civilization existing in the Levant area at around the time of Christ - albeit a rather modest one.

    The population at the time has been estimated as high as 7 million (compare
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:30 PM GMT
    judoguy Posts: 971
    Jun 09, 2010 9:39 AM


    Funny lady! when I'm 89 I'll say whatever I want just to provoke and piss off humourless people too. (I'll also start doing drugs and drink too much, but that's a different story)


    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 09, 2010 10:34 AM
    Well Caesarea, why don't you read about the descent of the Semitic people covered in the Pentateuch? The Bible doesn't seem confident they originated in Canaan so why should we??
    I mention the Bible because, despite it's notorious falsity, it's jumpy narrative and happy-go-lucky sense of history, it remains the most popular real estate guide for the Mid-East region among Zionists such as yourself.
    It's not my fault that ethnic cleansers such as Moses didn't exist, and that we should be glad they didn't.

    Historical evidence clearly shows that the Bible is a very confused, disjointed text that deals quasi-historically mainly with Semitic people who originated from the Land Between the Rivers - translation = Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq). Indeed most Biblical scholars place the supposed Garden of Eden just outside Baghdad.
    Read any book that shows the history of the Jews in Iraq, or indeed the history of the ancient peoples of the Euphrates delta.

    Also, if you're going to accuse me of being an anti-Semite (I am an anti-Zionist and the genius of the neocon is to conflate the two), be sure to post your address beneath your Zionist bunkum - as I'd like to take the opportunity to send you a writ for libel if that is your view. In truth I consider anti-Semitism to be a disease - one which unfortunately is passed down quite successfully from one generation to another. The desire to stamp it out is one that I share, and that's why like many Jews, I try carefully not to endorse Israel when battling it.
    All religions and ethnic groups have their hangups, and to me praising Israel to combat anti-Semitic bigots would be like touting the virtues of Sharia Law to defend Muslims.

    I called Ellen Thomas's remarks harsh, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out I do not endorse them or find them particularly helpful. Indeed forcing the Israelis out of Palestine would be to do unto the Israelis the very same evil which was committed against the Palestinians.

    The Jewish rebellion against the Romans failed quite dismally of course, yet the Barbarians of Germania (a population of people which was sparser still) seemed to succeed quite well.
    Indeed the Jewish Pharisees of Canaan oversaw a multi-ethnic group of peoples, ranging from Jews and other Semites to Arabs and even Berbers. All in all, this population was small enough for Tiberius Caesar to consider it an "outpost".

    Finally, on your last point, Celts have been living in Britain and Europe for a time period that makes 3300 years look absolutely paltry. Yet today they are limited mostly to Brittany, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Indeed Moorish Arabs have been living in Spain much longer than the multi-ethnic Spaniards of the present day, and indeed many have stayed. Yet you won't see any serious UN initiative to incorporate Spain into the Maghreb, or indeed to throw the Bosnian Muslims back to Turkey to establish a homeland for the Slavs.

    The Israelis should take their grief to the Europeans who massacred them, and maybe even the Brits for placing them in such a ludicrously preposterous and dangerous location that has given them nothing but war and turmoil for the past 62 years.

    In the meantime, the citizens of Gaza and the West Bank are having to get used to the charming routines or the concentration camp. And inside the insanitary, impoverished tents and shanty towns, emaciated stick children and malnourished, dispossessed grandparents keep watch over the glass box which adorns the most prestigious spot on their mantle. For in that box are the keys they took with them from their old houses. Some of them can actually physically see their beloved olive groves and white-washed homes from the squalor of their camps, and keep faith that those keys will be used by their grandchildren or maybe their great-grandchildren to unlock the door to their future in the years to come.


    SteveAndrew Posts: 2
    Jun 09, 2010 10:40 AM
    Oh Please!....the woman is 92 and should have retired from public speaking a long time ago...she obviously has lost some marbles...how and what will you be saying at that age? lol

    I think we should let it slide....


    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 09, 2010 10:49 AM
    Indeed the Jewish people have but two blotches on an otherwise mostly admirable historical record. The first is the Ancient Jews' capitulation to the Rabbis of Jerusalem, instead of to the pillar of Ancient Athens - the scientific capital of the world which many Jews had been attracted to after being influenced by Alexander of Macedon.
    Second is the 19th Century stain of Zionism, a movement encouraged by anti-Semites who were gathering pace in 19th Century Germany and Eastern Europe at the time. Because apart from that (and please don't be so vein as to tout the "socialist" qualities of the Kibbutz) Jews have arguably been the greatest contributors to left-wing political thought in history. (You know Hitler knew this very well and would in fact often conflate Judaism with communism to stir up his Nazi base).


    jduckj Posts: 37
    Jun 09, 2010 11:06 AM
    as a Jew i dont understand why the world hates us, i think they're just jealous.. they should FOLLOW US!

    we have the world's greatest power (arguable) wrapped around our finger willing to fight our wars. and if they question anything, we just pull the anti-semitic card which we've guilted them to fear.

    i feel like the many people that hate us are just jealous because they weren't smart enough to do the same for their own respective countries.


    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 09, 2010 11:13 AM
    Well actually that is a little harsh JduckJ. Though political humour is always a virtue!


    jduckj Posts: 37
    Jun 09, 2010 11:32 AM
    im just proud, that's all!


    NNJfitandbi Posts: 1911
    Jun 09, 2010 2:11 PM
    Pouncer saidDidn't, according to the Old Testament, the Israelites come out of Egypt originally? And didn't God tell the Israelites they had to drive out the Hivites, Jebusites, Hittites, Amalakites, Amonites and Perrizites from their homes and massacre them in order to get Israel??

    And didn't the Irgun and countless other Zionist groups launch vicious terrorist attacks against British soldiers (including hanging servicemen from orange groves) in order to press the initiative for an Israeli state?

    Actually the Biblical account is mostly untrue. The Hebrew people originated in Mesopotamia (yes, long before the Babylonian captivity). There was no exodus out of Egypt, for the simple fact that there are no records of any Jewish slaves ever existing in Egypt - and the Egyptians chronicled nearly all of their history. Yes there does appear to have been a Hebrew civilization existing in the Levant area at around the time of Christ - albeit a rather modest one.

    But to all the pro-Israel people on here who were so disgusted with Ellen Thomas's remarks, the absurdity of the idea of "sending people back to where they belong" actually works precisely the other way - Recreating in 1948 a country that had been dead for 2,000 years like Israel for Jews to return to (on the authority of the Bible), was no less absurd than than the idea of sending all Brits with Saxon names back to Germany.
    No wonder the Zionists considered creating Israel in Madagascar, Patagonia and Uganda, before choosing Palestine!

    "Israel - a land without a people for a people without a land".
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:30 PM GMT
    sdgman Posts: 64
    Jun 09, 2010 5:51 PM
    Wasn't her character killed off in the first batman movie?


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 09, 2010 6:00 PM
    sxydrkhair said
    IHG84 saidGreat example of tolerance, understanding, and being unbiased from the far left lol.

    She either historically illiterate, or just plain hateful (I'm thinking both) in the fact that Jews have been there for a long time. And were rounded up and killed in Europe.

    Sad woman, and good radiance.


    There's a second vid of her coming out tomorrow, going further with her ignorance. It was announced this morning by the dude who took this. Then she came out saying she's resigning lol


    She is not a sad woman or hateful. I think you're a sad person and ignorant. If wasn't for Hitler or European racism, there probably wouldn’t be an Israel Jewish state at all since until then most Jews were not Zionists. After the Holocaust happened, Israel has caused more Jewish deaths than anything else.


    She's not sad or ignorant to people like you, who share her same ignorant, misguided and even hateful views.

    The more she, and others like her speak. The more they show their ignorance and historical illiteracy.

    What you said definitely shows the exact ignorance, and hate that I'm talking about lol... Which is sad.

    There's been hate and violence towards Jews long before Hitler was even born. And if you truly understood history, you'd know that Marx who was a self hating Jew made hate for the Jews bigger in Europe, followed by Stalin, which all inspired Hitler, who also fueled the hatred of Jews already in the Middle East because of the history between Arabs and Jews.

    I don't condone a lot of the heavy handedness of the Israeli gov after the war to now, however at the same time I can understand it, being that the Arab nations helped and supported the European nations that hated and were killing Jews.

    So I stand by what I say... She's a sad ignorant woman as well as those who think like her, and good riddance.


    CAJock753 Posts: 338
    Jun 09, 2010 6:06 PM
    The good Ms. Thomas has been an embarassment to journalism for a long time. Goodbye dear lady, and good riddance to you! May we never hear from you again. You're an insensitive, thoughtless, inconsiderate old bitch!

    If I'm guilty as a jew of putting forth an ad hominem argument, so be it!


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 09, 2010 6:07 PM
    sdgman saidWasn't her character killed off in the first batman movie?


    The Crypt keeper's wife was in Batman?

    I'm bad for that lol


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 09, 2010 6:16 PM
    CAJock753 saidThe good Ms. Thomas has been an embarassment to journalism for a long time. Goodbye dear lady, and good riddance to you! May we never hear from you again. You're an insensitive, thoughtless, inconsiderate old bitch!

    If I'm guilty as a jew of putting forth an ad hominem argument, so be it!


    Only an embarrassment to people who don't understand journalism. I'm Jewish, and a journalist (hold a degree in journalism), and I think she has done a fine job over the years. And I'm not alone. Most journalists feel the same way I do.

    Here's hoping nobody ever records you saying something you may regret and posts it on the Internet.


    MenschPress Posts: 535
    Jun 09, 2010 6:17 PM
    This is interesting...

    What Helen Thomas Missed


    jduckj
    Posts: 37
    Jun 09, 2010 6:22 PM
    filthy goys are just jealous of us.. uhm we are THE CHOSEN PEOPLE not only in our holy literature, but theirs as well. they should pay us a stipend for entering america.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 09, 2010 6:26 PM
    reppaT said
    CAJock753 saidThe good Ms. Thomas has been an embarassment to journalism for a long time. Goodbye dear lady, and good riddance to you! May we never hear from you again. You're an insensitive, thoughtless, inconsiderate old bitch!

    If I'm guilty as a jew of putting forth an ad hominem argument, so be it!


    Only an embarrassment to people who don't understand journalism. I'm Jewish, and a journalist (hold a degree in journalism), and I think she has done a fine job over the years. And I'm not alone. Most journalists feel the same way I do.

    Here's hoping nobody ever records you saying something you may regret and posts it on the Internet.



    She's not an embarrassment to people who don't understand true journalism, and having a degree in it doesn't mean anything sorry.

    Journalist are supposed to be unbiased, and objective... She however has never been, and has always pushed her own political/ideological views. Its no surprise so many other "journalist" out there feel she's done a fine job, because there are loads of "journalist" out there who don't practice real journalism, which is why as they say today "journalism is dead"

    Which is part of why people have become bigger on learning things for themselves, because they can't trust "journalist" these days, as many "journalist" today aren't honest, unbiased and objective.


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 09, 2010 6:42 PM
    IHG84 said
    reppaT said
    CAJock753 saidThe good Ms. Thomas has been an embarassment to journalism for a long time. Goodbye dear lady, and good riddance to you! May we never hear from you again. You're an insensitive, thoughtless, inconsiderate old bitch!

    If I'm guilty as a jew of putting forth an ad hominem argument, so be it!


    Only an embarrassment to people who don't understand journalism. I'm Jewish, and a journalist (hold a degree in journalism), and I think she has done a fine job over the years. And I'm not alone. Most journalists feel the same way I do.

    Here's hoping nobody ever records you saying something you may regret and posts it on the Internet.


    She's not an embarrassment to people who don't understand true journalism, and having a degree in it doesn't mean anything sorry.

    Journalist are supposed to be unbiased, and objective... She however has never been, and has always pushed her own political/ideological views. Its no surprise so many other "journalist" out there feel she's done a fine job, because there are loads of "journalist" out there who don't practice real journalism, which is why as they say today "journalism is dead"

    Which is part of why people have become bigger on learning things for themselves, because they can't trust "journalist" these days, as many "journalist" today aren't honest, unbiased and objective.



    And you have an understanding of "true journalism," huh? Uh huh. Do me a favor, and define that for me, please. Quick, Google away!

    I hate to break it to you, oh lover of Fox News/Limbaugh/Beck, but there is no objective journalist in the world. There never has been, and there never will be. Objectivity exists in theory, and there are a few media outlets that strive to offer both sides of the story in all of its reporting, but they fail.

    Objectivity in journalism is a myth. As long as people gather and distribute the news, objectivity isn't going to happen, so why should Helen Thomas be called out for being less than objective? She's no different from Limbaugh or Beck or any other nutjob created with the help of Murdoch.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 09, 2010 6:52 PM
    reppaT said
    IHG84 said
    reppaT said
    CAJock753 saidThe good Ms. Thomas has been an embarassment to journalism for a long time. Goodbye dear lady, and good riddance to you! May we never hear from you again. You're an insensitive, thoughtless, inconsiderate old bitch!

    If I'm guilty as a jew of putting forth an ad hominem argument, so be it!


    Only an embarrassment to people who don't under
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:30 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 09, 2010 7:03 PM
    IHG84 said
    sxydrkhair said
    IHG84 saidGreat example of tolerance, understanding, and being unbiased from the far left lol.

    She either historically illiterate, or just plain hateful (I'm thinking both) in the fact that Jews have been there for a long time. And were rounded up and killed in Europe.

    Sad woman, and good radiance.


    There's a second vid of her coming out tomorrow, going further with her ignorance. It was announced this morning by the dude who took this. Then she came out saying she's resigning lol


    She is not a sad woman or hateful. I think you're a sad person and ignorant. If wasn't for Hitler or European racism, there probably wouldn’t be an Israel Jewish state at all since until then most Jews were not Zionists. After the Holocaust happened, Israel has caused more Jewish deaths than anything else.


    She's not sad or ignorant to people like you, who share her same ignorant, misguided and even hateful views.

    The more she, and others like her speak. The more they show their ignorance and historical illiteracy.

    What you said definitely shows the exact ignorance, and hate that I'm talking about lol... Which is sad.

    There's been hate and violence towards Jews long before Hitler was even born. And if you truly understood history, you'd know that Marx who was a self hating Jew made hate for the Jews bigger in Europe, followed by Stalin, which all inspired Hitler, who also fueled the hatred of Jews already in the Middle East because of the history between Arabs and Jews.

    I don't condone a lot of the heavy handedness of the Israeli gov after the war to now, however at the same time I can understand it, being that the Arab nations helped and supported the European nations that hated and were killing Jews.

    So I stand by what I say... She's a sad ignorant woman as well as those who think like her, and good riddance.


    My ignorant and hateful? What did I say make you think my ignorance and hate? Tell me what is my hateful views? You are not making any sense.

    I agree there was hate and violence toward Jews way before Hitler was born in Europe. Jews in the Arab countries live way better than Jews live in European countries. If I were a Jewish I would rather live in Arab countries under the Ottoman rules than live under the Hitler regime. Arab hateful anti-semitism was more or less born 1947 with the creation of the state Israel. That is because Zionist started ethnic cleansing, stealing lands, and killing Palestinians. Zionist taught Arabs to hate because of the Zionist racist ideology. Have you read about their racism toward the Palestinians and Arabs? - read more

    Arabs support European nation that hated and were killing Jews? Where you get that idea?


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 09, 2010 7:05 PM
    You do know that Helen Thomas is a commentator, too, don't you? Yes, of course you do. I mean, you do seem to know everything about anything.

    *Edit

    lol


    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 09, 2010 7:09 PM
    Webster666 said



    Was 100% owned by Native Americans...


    Native American Indians can return their homes and now American citizens. Palestinian refugees and Palestinians in the occupied territories on other hand aren't allowed to return their homeland in Israel. They can't become Israeli citizens.


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 09, 2010 7:14 PM
    sxydrkhair said
    Arabs support European nation that hated and were killing Jews? Where you get that idea?


    He Googled it.

    Pay him no mind ... since he seems to be lacking one, anyway.


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 09, 2010 7:25 PM
    reppaT saidYou do know that Helen Thomas is a commentator, too, don't you? Yes, of course you do. I mean, you do seem to know everything about anything.

    *Edit

    lol


    No I don't think I know everything. No man knows everything, and you never stop learning. I know a lot of things because I read a lot, I know a lot of things because of the experiences I've encountered based on how I've chosen to live my life.

    I'm also very fortunate enough to have people in my family who've gone through some pretty wild and scary shit, that I can learn from. Like my grandparents who were both in the Nazi camps. I know a lot of things because I listen to people, and respect them even if I don't agree with them. I know a lot of things because I don't make myself a slave to an ideology, or political party. I have a mind of my own, and a lot of questions.

    I know when I see dishonesty, ignorance, even hate.. Its what you constantly display in every forum I see you post in, and its why you're finally going on ignore, because I'm tired of your childish uneducated school girl antic's.


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 09, 2010 7:33 PM
    That's the best you can do? Oh, how I'm going to miss the myriad posts where you call out how ignorant everyone is ... dammit!

    But one final time for shits and giggles, and in your memory:

    LOL


    jakebenson Posts: 1719
    Jun 09, 2010 7:36 PM
    According to Helen Thomas's logic, she should return to Beirut, Lebanon.


    jrunner25 Posts: 808
    Jun 09, 2010 7:46 PM
    this is why once im done with school, im going to get married to a jewish man and move to Israel (: More jews more fun!


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 09, 2010 7:48 PM
    ^

    Smart man


    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 09, 2010 8:01 PM
    sxydrkhair said
    IHG84 said
    sxydrkhair said
    IHG84 saidGreat example of tolerance, understanding, and being unbiased from the far left lol.

    She either historically illiterate, or just plain hateful (I'm thinking both) in the fact that Jews have been there for a long time. And were rounded up and killed in Europe.

    Sad woman, and good radiance.


    There's a second vid of her coming out tomorrow, going further with her ignorance. It was announced this morning by the dude who took this. Then she came out saying she's resigning lol


    She is not a sad woman or hateful. I think you're a sad person and ignorant. If wasn't for Hitler or European racism, there probably wouldn’t be an Israel Jewish state at all since until then most Jews were not Zionists. After the Holocaust happened, Israel has caused more Jewish deaths than anything else.


    She's not sad or ignorant to people like you, who share her same ignorant, misguided and even hateful views.

    The more she, and others like her speak. The more they show their ignorance and historical illiteracy.

    What you said definitely shows the exact ignorance, and hate that I'm talking about lol... Which is sad.

    There's been hate and violence towards Jews long before Hitler was even born. And if you truly understood history, you'd know that Marx who was a self hating Jew made hate for the Jews bigger in Europe, followed by Stalin, which all inspired Hitler, who also fueled the hatred of Jews already in the Middle East because of the history between Arabs and Jews.

    I don't condone a lot of the heavy handedness of the Israeli gov after the war to now, however at the same time I can understand it, being that the Arab nations helped and supported the European nations that hated and were killing Jews.

    So I stand by what I say... She's a sad ignorant woman as well as those who think like her, and good riddance.


    My ignorant and hateful? What did I say make you think my ignorance and hate? Tell me what is my hateful views? You are not making any sense.

    I agree there was hate and violence toward Jews way before Hitler was born in Europe. Jews in the Arab countries live way better than Jews live in European countries. If I were a Jewish I would rather live in Arab countries under the Ottoman rules than live under the Hitler regime. Arab hateful anti-semitism was m
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:31 PM GMT
    IHG84 Posts: 859
    Jun 09, 2010 8:17 PM
    shybuffguy said
    reppaT said
    sxydrkhair said
    Arabs support European nation that hated and were killing Jews? Where you get that idea?


    He Googled it.

    Pay him no mind ... since he seems to be lacking one, anyway.


    Why do you always resort to personal attacks instead of addressing what he said?

    The fact that you may or may not be a jew or a Journalism major doesn't negate the fact that someone else does their homework and forms their own opinion instead of letting you bully them into yours.

    I'll see your major in journalism and stack my masters in history up aginst it anyday !

    One point I would make to you is that I too do my homework and so far I haven't heard any liberals tell me to do my homework and form my own opinions. I hear it from the conservative side everyday.

    I have one question. If all journalists are biased, then why does it bother you so much that some may have an opinion that differs from you and your liberal friends? I don't agree with you, but I think you have a right to your opinion, maybe thet is where we differ.

    Now make a personal attack on me and then get back on topic instead of telling us how great your liberal intelect makes you.


    Just put him on ignore. I've been told he always does this. He can't say anything intelligent or honest, and when he gets busted he gets down with the insults. Its what far left nut bags, and far right nut bags do. Just ignore him, he's useless don't let him make this whole thing about him.
    southbeach150... Posts: 2725 Jun 09, 2010 8:42 PM
    And in other news....

    I came across this over the weekend and was shocked that someone who has made their living covering politics for the past 50+ years would say such a thing.

    Apparently, she has just announced her retirement.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/onmedia/0610/Helen_Thomas_retires.html

    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 10, 2010 4:03 AM
    It’s amazing, but not surprising, how much completely irrelevant spam Samer has posted. Since no one believes what this pathological and compulsive liar posts, allow me to only point out a couple of logical contradictions:

    Samer 1> The identity of the modern-day Palestinian people are indigenous peoples who had lived in the land since time immemorial, including the ancient Hebrews, the Canaanites and mixed with many other conquerors like Romans, Greeks, Persian, Arabs, Ottoman Turks, Crusaders, Byzantine, Umayyad, Fatimid, Ayyubid, Mamluk, Nabateans and Ghassanids.

    Samer 2> There are so many ways Zionists like Caesarea4 trying to make it look like Palestinians aren't a legitimate people. First they claim they are all Yemenis who "moved to Israel after they built it from scratch." Secondly they say they're just a collection of people from neighboring countries (Lebanese, Syrians, Jordanians, and Egyptians) who were placed there by Arab governments as a conspiracy. Now a more creative approach, saying they're a mix of absolutely everything in the world

    Isn’t that what he just said, that they are a hodge-podge of various different invaders over the centuries?

    For a more thorough discussion of this subject, see this topic:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/979648


    Arab Muslims invaded, conquered and colonized this land in the 7th century, but it wasn't a "country". Filastin (the foreigners couldn't even correctly pronounce the "P" consonant which isn't found in Arabic) was a military district of the Umayyad dynasty (empire) based in Damascus. (This is like claiming that the "Green Zone" in Iraq is an American country.)

    Samer> It is like in Hebrew the name Israel start with Y. Like Yisrael not Israel or Yerushalayim, not Jerusalem. What is your point? Every languages are different.

    In Hebrew, Yisrael correctly starts with a Y, unlike in English. If the English conquered Israel tomorrow, do you think Israelis would start saying “Israel” instead of “Yisrael”? Yet when the Arabs conquered Palestina, they called it “Filastin”?! This indicates that they weren’t “Arabized” (a process that would take numerous generations) but that the change was sudden due to the arrival of Arab colonists.

    As for the “J” in Jerusalem, it comes to English via the German, in which “J” is pronounced like a “Y” in English. All of which is totally irrelevant because Jews/Israelis correctly pronounce it in Hebrew and would continue to do so if Americans conquered Jerusalem – while the American colonists would mispronounce it as Jerusalem, just as the Arab colonists mispronounced “Palestina” as “Filastin”.


    Samer3> the Zionists also supported the Nazi regime

    C4> it was Muhammed Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem and the head of the Arab Higher Committee (as the organization that represented the ARABS of Mandate Palestine was called) who collaborated with the nazis - spent much of the war in hitler's bunker - and attempted to get the nazis to bring their "final solution" to the mideast.

    Samer4> That is true, because he was opposite to Zionism.

    But you just told us that the Zionists supported the Nazis, so why would the head of the Arab Higher Committee court hitler rather than consider that the friend of his enemy was his enemy?

    Once again Samer has been caught arguing from contradicting premises, showing us that his arguments are illogical bunk – lies for the cause. Samer is the kind of guy who would argue in front of liberals that Israel is evil because it discriminates against gays… and 2 minutes later, in front of a fundamentalist audience, argue that Israel is evil because it is a gay haven.

    Such arguments are a reversal of the scientific method (which appears to be far beyond Samer’s grasp). Rather than collect facts and build (and modify) a model to fit them, he invents “facts” in support of his false notions.
    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 10, 2010 4:45 AM
    Unable to squarely address anything I said above, pouncer continues with more nonsense:

    pouncer> The Hebrew people originated in Mesopotamia (yes, long before the Babylonian captivity).

    C4> You have archeological or historical evidence of this?
    Because the existing historical and archeological evidence indicates that the Hebrews were of Canaanite origin.

    pouncer> why don't you read about the descent of the Semitic people covered in the Pentateuch? The Bible doesn't seem confident they originated in Canaan so why should we?

    Not only does he lack evidence, the argument is sheer idiocy.
    The Bible doesn't seem confident in man's ability to reach the moon... why should we?
    And he just told us that the Bible is totally worthless.... so why bring it up?
    We should base our thoughts on the best available information, yet you prefer to pick and choose, and to obfuscate.
    A sign of pouncer's bias and prejudices.

    pouncer> Read any book that shows the history of the Jews in Iraq

    I have ready many such books. The Jewish community of Baghdad is dated from the 6th century BCE. That's some 700 years later than the period we are discussing.


    pouncer> I mention the Bible because, despite it's notorious falsity, it's jumpy narrative and happy-go-lucky sense of history, it remains the most popular real estate guide for the Mid-East region among Zionists such as yourself.

    More idiocy. Not only am I an atheist (and most ZIonist Jews are secular) but beyond Joshua the history of the Bible is pretty well established. Archeologists have spoken of setting forth with the Bible in one hand and a shovel in the other. Another sign of pouncer's bias and prejudices.


    pouncer> there does appear to have been a Hebrew civilization existing in the Levant area at around the time of Christ - albeit a rather modest one.

    C4> The population at the time has been estimated as high as 7 million (compare to early 19th century estimates of a population as low as 50,000).
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:31 PM GMT
    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 10, 2010 5:46 AM
    shybuffguy saidWhy do you always resort to personal attacks instead of addressing what he said?

    The fact that you may or may not be a jew or a Journalism major doesn't negate the fact that someone else does their homework and forms their own opinion instead of letting you bully them into yours.

    I'll see your major in journalism and stack my masters in history up aginst it anyday !

    One point I would make to you is that I too do my homework and so far I haven't heard any liberals tell me to do my homework and form my own opinions. I hear it from the conservative side everyday.

    I have one question. If all journalists are biased, then why does it bother you so much that some may have an opinion that differs from you and your liberal friends? I don't agree with you, but I think you have a right to your opinion, maybe thet is where we differ.

    Now make a personal attack on me and then get back on topic instead of telling us how great your liberal intelect makes you.


    You questioned IrishHandJob's 'research' on Arabic history, not mine. I never raised any issue with history, so I'm not sure why you bring mine into question. How could you when I never addressed it in this thread?

    I jumped into this thread with guns blazing because specific people were quick to condemn Helen Thomas. Yes, what she said was inappropriate, but this is America.

    A few guys in this thread - real fans of Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck - damn Helen Thomas for exercising free speech, yet never, ever question statements from B.O. and G.B. that are far more shocking and worth more condemnation than anything Helen Thomas has ever said.

    Regarding IrishHandJob, he has a history or twisting facts in favor of his conservative point of view. Whenever anybody disagrees with him, he slams them as being ignorant, then throws in an "everybody says," or "others have told me," as a means to emphasize he doesn't stand alone in his thoughts when, in fact, he does.

    Lately, he tries to come across as being educated and well researched. I'm here to tell you, he is neither well educated, nor researched.

    In a similar fashion, you claim to also do your homework, yet you say you haven't heard any (not one) Liberal tell you to do your homework, but that you hear it from conservatives everyday. So, allow me to be the first Liberal to tell you this: do your fucking homework!

    You, too, seem to be suffering from the same syndrome as IrishCumRag.

    And since you're so into blanket statements, I don't need to tell you how great my Liberal intellect makes me, or any educated Liberal. It's a simple fact. All Liberals are capable of thinking for themselves and doing research the old fashioned way vs. listening to Fox News' talking heads or from the coloring books at Bob Evans.

    IHG, I'm still awaiting the rebuttal to your last insult. Still trying to come up with one? You can't wrap your well-educated and researched, shrapnel-filled grey matter around the difference b/t a journalist and a commentator like Helen Thomas, and a simple (and I do mean simple) commentator like Glenn Beck, can you?

    It's okay, I'm on holiday until next week. I have all day.

    lol


    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 10, 2010 9:13 AM
    Those talking about "freedom of speech" miss two points:

    1. No one has denied Thomas her right to speech (like we can?).

    2. Just as she has the right to speak her bile, others have the right to criticize her.
    (Or are you trying to suppress our "freedom of speech"?!)

    I wonder: if Rev. Phelps said "all gays should die", or if an American Journalist said "All Hispanics should go back to Mexico", would only they have the right to this "freedom of speech" but we couldn't condemn them for their racist/hatist comments...?!

    And if Rush or Beck were to say something like that... would it make sense to defend them by saying "Helen Thomas did it too"?



    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 10, 2010 9:43 AM
    Not only do you continue to derail your own topic, but your own bias is showing.

    Why don't you mind the people who post nothing at all related to the topic, instead using it as a pretense to post their anti-Israel spam propaganda? Including posting large pictures? (Well, they are better with pictures than with words, eh?)

    As long as they continue to do so here, I will continue to refute what they say and "set the record straight" here.
    Of course, I've also offered them links to other topics, why haven't they followed them and moved the discussion there?
    And why do you continue to ignore that, too?
    I'm starting to fear that you have a crush on me and thus your obsession.


    Why don't you tell us what you found "shocking" about her comment?


    Satyricon331 Posts: 810
    Jun 10, 2010 10:35 AM
    southbeach1500 saidCaesarea4,

    Congratulations on devoting about 1% of your last three posts in this topic to what the topic is actually about.

    Can you please, please, please control your need for "setting the record straight" on all things Israel and only write things here that are about Helen Thomas and the fallout from her remarks?


    I don't understand why you're so averse to topical drift. It can generate extremely interesting discussions. If the original topic engenders reader interest, any topical drift won't distract people too much. If the original topic doesn't, then topical drift is good for that reason. I would think you would be more libertarian about it - like goods providing utility, topics provide interest, and have a sort of price mechanism by topical reply.
    southbeach150... Posts: 2725 Jun 10, 2010 10:43 AM
    Satyricon331 saidI don't understand why you're so averse to topical drift.

    In the case of Caesarea4 (and the few others who do this), it's the same old history lesson presented in excruciating detail.

    As an example, what does this have to do with Helen Thomas' comment and the resulting fallout?

    Samer4> That is true, because he was opposite to Zionism.

    But you just told us that the Zionists supported the Nazis, so why would the head of the Arab Higher Committee court hitler rather than consider that the friend of his enemy was his enemy?


    Or this:

    pouncer> The Hebrew people originated in Mesopotamia (yes, long before the Babylonian captivity).

    C4> You have archeological or historical evidence of this?
    Because the existing historical and archeological evidence indicates that the Hebrews were of Canaanite origin.


    Or this:

    In the first half of the 20th century, the Arabs who had colonized "Palestine" (then the Latin/European name for the Land of Israel) claimed that there was no such place as "Palestine" (it was, they said, "southern Syria") and that there were no "Palestinians". Only after failing to steal this land by war [in 1948] did these Arabs begin to call themselves "Palestinians", stealing the name and perpetrating one of the greatest hoaxes of the 20th century.


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    Jun 11, 2010 9:32 PM GMT
    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 10, 2010 1:29 PM
    C4> Why don't you tell us what you found "shocking" about her comment?

    Southbeach> I was amazed at how stupid a person who spent 50 years covering Washington DC and politics could be at making such a non-PC remark.

    So the problem, in your eyes, was that she made a "non-PC remark" rather than that what she said was bigoted and wrong?
    southbeach150... Posts: 2725 Jun 10, 2010 1:36 PM
    Caesarea4 saidC4> Why don't you tell us what you found "shocking" about her comment?

    Southbeach> I was amazed at how stupid a person who spent 50 years covering Washington DC and politics could be at making such a non-PC remark.

    So the problem, in your eyes, was that she made a "non-PC remark" rather than that what she said was bigoted and wrong?

    The newsworthiness of this story is that the "Queen of the White House Press Corps" had such bad judgement to say what she did.

    We can devote another thread to whether the words she spoke were right or wrong. Plenty of people feel the same way she does. Plenty of people disagree with what she said.

    The issue is not what was said so much as who said it.


    Satyricon331 Posts: 810
    Jun 10, 2010 2:45 PM
    southbeach1500 said
    Satyricon331 said
    Again, I don't understand why you're so averse to topical drift. Theirs isn't an extreme form, despite its "excruciating detail." Again, I would have thought you would have been content to rely on the topical pricing mechanism.

    Apparently I don't see things in such black and white absolutes as you do.


    I don't understand your reply at all. My mention of an extreme form indicates I was thinking in nuance rather than black and white.


    MenschPress Posts: 535
    Jun 10, 2010 2:48 PM
    Pouncer saidDidn't, according to the Old Testament, the Israelites come out of Egypt originally?


    No. According to the Bible, the tribe of Hebrew slaves in Egypt is descended from Joseph, who is brought there as a slave after his brothers betray him. His ancestor Abraham is the original Hebrew patriarch. God sends Abraham from Ur to Canaan and promises that land to him. Canaan is now Israel.

    So while it's true that Abraham was BORN in Ur (i.e. southern Mesopotamia, i.e. Iraq), if you're going to quote the Bible, then what matters is not where he came from, but what God says he and his descendants are entitled to.

    Abraham's descendants became "Israelites" when Abraham's grandson Jacob wrestled with a divine being, who then renamed him "Israel". Again, this is before the story moves to Egypt.

    Of course, I don't believe this is actual history any more than you do, but let's get clear on what it says.


    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 10, 2010 2:58 PM
    Caesarea4beyond Joshua the history of the Bible is pretty well established


    This is so ignorant as to be comic. I could devote my entire post to the absurdity of this logic. You're forgetting that Matthew traces Joseph's descent from King David via 28 intermediate generations, while Luke has 41 generations. Worse, there is almost no overlap in the names on the two lists!

    Also, being an atheist you'll realize that the "pretty historically well established" Bible cites all the New Testament miracles as facts, as it does the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, the Epiphany, the Holy Ghost, desert demons and astrological predictions etc. etc. etc.

    This is not even to mention the historicity of Jesus, let alone the Old Testament with its giants, its leviathans, its unicorns, its sorcerous pharaohs and its talking snakes. Plus, of course, it's God on a Mountain.

    Your allusion to the 6th Century BC refers to the Babylonian Captivity of course. This would indeed be where the Israelites invented and wrote down the story of Genesis; postulating that the first Semitic man and woman were created in the Garden of Eden - which is in Mesopotamia (yes I'm aware that the word "Semitic" is not actually used, but the Old Testament deals mainly with Semitic people and it cannot possibly be dealing with the origins of humankind as a whole or it would have cited Kenya instead). Plus there were a lot of Semitic people in the Middle-East at that time, and even if they didn't "originate" in Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia is certainly the earliest known Biblical reference to them. Unless you want to propose Adam and Eve were Arabic, black Greek or Roman - the only other ethnic groups the Bible is aware of.
    And yes I dismiss the Bible as rubbish. The reason I mention it and take the time to debunk it is because most people in the Israel/Palestine debate don't.

    There are 13 million Jews in the world today, 40% of which live in Israel. In other words, today, after 62 years of global Jewish immigration to Israel, and with a world population which is now 6 billion (with immigration now the easiest it's ever been), there are only about 5.2 million Jews in Israel. And that includes people who are only part-Jewish and converts with no Jewish blood whatsoever.
    And you really believe there were 7 million Jews living there before Christ? We know for a fact that the so-called "Kingdom of David" 3,000 years ago was particularly modest, more like a fiefdom.
    Besides, before the Industrial Revolution the most populous region of Israel's approximate size the world had ever seen was the 6th Century Spanish Caliphate of Cordoba (est.500,000). Just something to consider.

    Also I do condemn Thomas's remarks, I'm just not obsessed with them like you are. Just like I don't use quotes, footnotes and citations on every paragraph because unlike you I am not writing an essay.

    Finally you accuse me (on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, which I've now come to expect) of wanting Israel to be an Arab state, as well as wanting an Arab state for the Palestinians. Not at all. One Jewish state, one Arab state would suit me fine.

    http://www.janusthinking.com/2010/01/luxury-in-the-nazi-concentration-camps/

    Hey I can post a link too! This one posits that due to camaraderie and wise food rationing, the Holocaust at times could even be luxurious!! It was posted on the web by a well-known Jewish academic so I guess it must be true!!.

    It's simple why I'm not complaining about the Romans conquering the Celts, or say the Europeans conquering America. And that's because there are no Celts or Native Americans in concentration camps. And the Native Americans nor the Celts are forced to do any country's shitwork for them.

    Israel isn't a terrorist state, a moderate state, or even a rogue state. It's a lunatic state. For only a lunatic state would do what they did last week.

    Lastly is your supra-Zionist allegation that anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism. I guess that means all Jews that existed before 1948 were anti-Semites. And that would include all who died during the Holocaust. You attempt a witticism by calling me a Zionist - well, that is an insult no doubt, but better than being an anti-Semite my friend!!

    Do more research, go back to school if you like, but STOP misrepresenting me and libelling me with words I've never said.


    TigerTim Posts: 1754
    Jun 10, 2010 3:05 PM
    The things she said are dreadful. She should apologize for them. There's little more to say.


    reppaT Posts: 1169
    Jun 10, 2010 3:24 PM
    southbeach1500 saidHelen Thomas = Reporter

    Limbaugh, Beck et al = Commentators


    uhm, a journalist can be a commentator, but not all commentators are journalists. Helen Thomas worked as both a commentator and as a journalist. What part of that don't you understand?

    Why hold her to higher standards than Faux News journalists and commentators? That's my point. In the world of Southbeach and IHG, it's okay if any number of right wingers are bigots
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:32 PM GMT
    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 10, 2010 3:46 PM
    Caesarea4> Why don't you tell us what you found "shocking" about her comment?

    Southbeach> I was amazed at how stupid a person who spent 50 years covering Washington DC and politics could be at making such a non-PC remark.

    C4> So the problem, in your eyes, was that she made a "non-PC remark" rather than that what she said was bigoted and wrong?

    SB> We can devote another thread to whether the words she spoke were right or wrong. Plenty of people feel the same way she does. Plenty of people disagree with what she said.

    We don't need another thread for you to answer the question, unless you're trying to beat around the bush and avoid it.


    SB> The issue is not what was said so much as who said it.

    Yes, if you had said that there wouldn't be much of an outcry, but this is a cop-out.
    It's no different than when former Secretary of State James Baker said "F*ck the Jews"
    Or Billy Graham.



    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 10, 2010 3:48 PM
    TigerTim saidThe things she said are dreadful. She should apologize for them. There's little more to say.

    That doesn't appear so difficult to write.
    Why do you think a handful of people can't bring themselves to say that?
    And nonetheless say more and more?
    southbeach150... Posts: 2725 Jun 10, 2010 3:52 PM
    Caesarea4 said
    TigerTim saidThe things she said are dreadful. She should apologize for them. There's little more to say.

    That doesn't appear so difficult to write.
    Why do you think a handful of people can't bring themselves to say that?
    And nonetheless say more and more?

    That's my point!

    Why can't you be concise and on topic?



    fastprof Posts: 1767
    Jun 10, 2010 3:57 PM
    @southbeach...

    You apparently think that tangential discussions that develop because of an original post are something to be discouraged. I'll agree that name-calling is out of line.

    But, the fact that some people have chosen to discuss the content of Thomas's gaffe is fair game for discussion, even if you don't want to discuss it.

    You seem to be jumping up and down about this, and threatening to take "the basketball and go home...."

    Just sit back and let people discuss. You don't have to respond or agree. You don't own the free speech that has been displayed here.


    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 10, 2010 3:59 PM
    southbeach1500 saidGreat job pouncer and Caesarea4.

    This topic will soon be deleted as you really couldn't care less about the topic and instead use it as yet another place to spew pro Israel / anti Arab / pro Arab / anti Israel debate.

    Since you won't cease and desist, it's such a shame that all that you wrote will soon be gone....


    southbeach, caesarea4 will never give up with his pro-Israel propaganda and his hatred against Palestinian people. He always insulting people that don't agree with him or insulting someone that have freedom of speech like Helen Thomas. He doesn't care if someone talk bad about Muslims or Christians like few other threads on realjock. Notice, he never talk about Christian and Muslim history in Palestine? He will never stop until he is the last person to post on this thread. So annoying...

    Pouncer is not pro-Palestinian or pro-Israel. Don't blame him for ruining your thread. It is Caesarea4 that's showing hate. I don't blame Halen Thomas for telling Jews to move back where they coming from. Someone like Caesarea4 will never shut up.
    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 10, 2010 4:02 PM
    C4: Attacks against soldiers aren't terrorism.

    Yes indeed, that's why Nidal Malik Hassan is no type of terrorist, and shouldn't be described as such.

    C4: There are no refugee camps in Israeli proper.

    Yeah, and Auschwitz wasn't in Germany proper either.

    C4: Talk about the historical evidence, not the Biblical evidence.

    Yeah precisely because Biblical Evidence doesn't cut the mustard. On realizing that, the Bible no longer comes into it according to you. Except for David Ben-Gurion instructing the Israeli archeologists to "dig up the Title Deeds" of course.

    C4: Hey stop defending the Palestinians, you'll close down this thread. For example you never hear me endlessly touting the virtues of Israel. Plus Jerry Falwell will be spinning in his grave goddammit!!

    Enough said. A self-defeat is always satisfying. One hint on debating though - after you've defeated your own argument by ignoring and evading my remarks, don't continue to push that original argument thinking it's going to remain anything intellectually formidable.

    As Winston Churchill once said of his experience during the Boer War - "It's always exhilarating to be shot at - without result"
    southbeach150... Posts: 2725 Jun 10, 2010 4:10 PM
    What does this:

    Yes indeed, that's why Nidal Malik Hassan is no type of terrorist, and shouldn't be described as such.

    have to do with the topic?


    Seems like we're on a tangent of a tangent of a tangent of a tangent....


    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 10, 2010 8:20 PM
    pouncer> "It's always exhilarating to be shot at - without result"

    When the only person supporting you is sxydrkhair, it seems you've been shot down but are in denial about it.
    (Try not to hurt yourself next time you insist on thumping your chest.)


    pouncer> you've defeated your own argument by ignoring and evading my remarks

    Insanity abounds. You've ignored most of my points and I've (to southbeach's chagrin) methodically refuted yours, point-by-point. Indeed, it is laughable that in your most recent post you don't actually quote me (which is deceptively not obvious from your format) and then respond to your own confabulated straw man arguments.

    Since you only honestly addressed one point, there's little I need to add to my prior post:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/979676#54845_983964_name

    Caesarea4> There are no Arab "refugee camps" inside Israel proper.
    The camps in the disputed territories were inherited by Israel in 1967.

    pouncer> Auschwitz wasn't in Germany proper either.

    My, how idiotic pouncer's comment is when my 2nd line isn't deceitfully omitted. The "refugee camps" in the disputed territories were built by Arab governments who tossed the Arabs of Palestine into them and threw away the keys.

    Unlike Auschwitz which was built and operated by the Germans.

    The comparison of camps run by the UNRWA to an extermination camp where more than 1 million people were methodically murdered should leave little doubt in readers' minds just how mad with hate this pouncer character is.


    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 10, 2010 8:45 PM
    I think I actually know what C4 is trying to achieve - and it's green, overweight, lives under a mountain and wields a club.

    So I'm anti-Palestinian according to you am I?

    You know what? I wouldn't sacrifice ONE Palestinian life to fight your Zionist bile!

    The Palestinians have one million Israeli allies who marched for the Peace Now rally in Tel Aviv deploring Israel's actions. For a country of 7 million people, that doesn't look good for the established nationalism. Nor do the estimated 30% of Israelis who weren't present at the Peace rally, but who are nonetheless in support of the Palestinian cause.

    No justice - no peace.

    You know God was the guy who put Ariel Sharon in a vegetative state because he showed too much sympathy for the Palestinians, at least according to Pat Robertson - and he's with Israel all the way baby!!
    Seriously though this is surely rubbish - that guy gorged himself to sheer bloatation. I personally know many Palestians who made a little holiday in their hearts the day Ariel Sharon seismically hit the ground.

    May this reality soon hit home with the Israeli Knesset. May Britain continue to expel each Israel
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:32 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 10, 2010 9:13 PM
    C4 guess what? I am the last one to post this. Now what? You going to response back and be the last person on this thread? You need help or maybe you should go see a psychologist.

    Being anti-zionist does not necessarily mean one is anti-Jewish or anti-Israel. I am anti-Zionist and love Israel (a country where my ancestors come from) and Jews people, not the Israeli government. Anti-Zionism does not mean that Jews have no right to emigrate to Palestine. Many of them are against the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, Israeli's apartheid and their racist ideology.


    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 10, 2010 9:25 PM
    And the true irony is this: - Israel may not even survive the night. It may survive this recent outrage, actually I expect it shall. But it shall not survive the long period of night to come. For when the Arab World finally finds its spine, when the corrupt kings and puppet presidents of the Arab World finally give way to elected representatives of the Arab people, when the US and it's aid gives way to China as a superpower, and the Arab finger of unequivocal condemnation points at Israel, rest assured Israel will suddenly discover the virtues of negotiation.

    In any event, the idea of Israel remaining a Jewish state for the foreseeable future is now starting to be doubted by people on the right who I honestly never expected to think such things. The United States is a declining empire, the advent of China is already marked in the sky. Barack Obama is working fast to sure up relations with the Arab World. They see the writing on the wall.


    fastprof Posts: 1767
    Jun 10, 2010 9:36 PM
    Pouncer saidAnd the true irony is this: - Israel may not even survive the night. It may survive this recent outrage, actually I expect it shall.
    In any event, the idea of Israel remaining a Jewish state for the foreseeable future is now starting to be doubted by people on the right who I honestly never expected to think such things. The United States is a declining empire,


    What a bunch of baloney. Whatever a person's feeling of Israel's raid, the fact remains that the extremists on both sides can come up with such poppycock. But this poppycock takes the cake.

    If China becomes a superpower, by the way, a majority of the world's population should fear for their human rights. As for the US, as long as the extreme rightists or people espousing these wacked out far, far, far left in another galaxy views, we'll be OK.

    This sounds right out of a book of "Slogans for the Reasoning-Impaired".


    pouncer Posts: 198
    Jun 10, 2010 10:09 PM
    Oh boy, not the old commie fear-mongering.



    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 10, 2010 11:01 PM
    sxydrkhair> Being anti-zionist does not necessarily mean one is anti-Jewish or anti-Israel

    I notice you can't tell us what it DOES mean.
    And I note the disclaimer of "not necessarily", which is a euphemism for "most likely".

    Zionism is the belief that Jews, like other national groups. have the right to self-determination in their own state.

    "Anti-Zionism" means being against the existence of a Jewish state.
    (And why would someone be against that unless they were Antisemites, i.e. anti-Jewish?)

    One cannot simultaneously be an "Anti-Zionist" and support the two-state solution (i.e. one Jewish, the other Palestinian Arab).


    Triggerman Posts: 11
    Jun 11, 2010 2:27 AM
    Enough with the politics.

    She has been showing signs of senility for a long time. Someone should have been kind enough before this to gently ask her to retire. I think people just put up with her and tried to be nice as she was held in such high regard, breaking all the glass ceilings she broke way back when. And she did. And she should be remembered for that. But in being nice to her, they let her stay too long and she made the major mistake that we are all discussing. And, unfortunately, she will be remembered for this stupid outburst more than anything she achieved in a lifetime of breaking down barriers to woman. This will be her last image. And though it is sad that she said what she said, it is even sadder that the people around her did not stop her while she still had some dignity. Or maybe they tried and failed. I do not know. But, like Jimmy the Greek, it is a sad ending to an otherwise decent career.


    sxydrkhair Posts: 5162
    Jun 11, 2010 2:32 AM
    Anti-Zionism does not equal with anti-Semitics and does not means someone is against Jewish state either. It means someone don't agree with Zionist's actions and Zionist racist regime. Get that in your head already.

    Oh Helen Thomas did apologized what she said about Jews. So get over with it.


    Triggerman Posts: 11
    Jun 11, 2010 2:41 AM
    She released a statement that said she should not have said what she said. It did not say she said anything wrong. Not really an apology. Not saying what she said was right or wrong. But her statement was not an apology for content. And I have no problem with that if she really felt what she said was true. But she never disavowed anything she said in her statement. Which is her right. But she only apologized, or her publicist wrote that she apologized, for saying it. She never disavowed what she said. A huge difference. But in America she should be free to say anything she wants.


    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 11, 2010 8:50 AM
    Zionism is the belief that Jews, like other national groups. have the right to self-determination in their own state.

    "Anti-Zionism" means being against the existence of a Jewish state.
    (And why would someone be against that unless they were Antisemites, i.e. anti-Jewish?)

    One cannot simultaneously be an "Anti-Zionist" and support the two-state solution (i.e. one Jewish, the other Palestinian Arab).

    sxydrkhair> It means someone don't agree with Zionist's actions and Zionist racist regime.

    That's completely ridiculous given that the "regime" is democratic and has been led by left, center and right parties. Samer's statement is exactly the same racism that we saw from Helen Thomas. For him there is no difference between a Rabin, Peres, Barak, Olmert, Sharon or Netanyahu. They all get lumped in under the same racist stereotype of "racist Zionist regime", they should all go "back" to Europe.

    As for the "racist" charge, note that Israeli Arabs not only vote and serve in the Knesset (parliament) but as ministers in the ruling government coalition (are they, too, part of the "racist Zionist regime"?!). They serve in the foreign office, including as ambassadors. They serve in the judiciary, including as judges on the High (supreme) Court - the only such court in the middle east where an Arab citizen can sue his own government, live to tell about it, and win or lose the case based only on its legal merits.

    Israeli Arabs even serve in the Israeli Defense Forces, achieving ranks as high as Generals (both the Home Front Command and Border Police are commanded by Major Generals who happen to be Israeli Arabs.)

    Don't let Samer Kalil's incessant, pathological and compulsive lies-for-the-cause fool you. The vast majority (66%) of Palestinian Arabs - living in the territories - give high marks to Israeli democracy and human rights (this from a scientific poll conducted by Ivy-Leauge trained Arab academics at the height of the intifada).

    Since there is no "racist Zionist regime", it is clear that this is not what "Anti-Zionists" oppose.
    They oppose the existence, exclusively, of the Jewish state.
    And, most often, this is because they are anti-semitic (i.e. Jew haters).
    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 11, 2010 8:58 AM
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    Jun 11, 2010 9:33 PM GMT
    caesarea4 Posts: 2945
    Jun 11, 2010 11:13 AM
    Caesarea4> Why don't you tell us what you found "shocking" about her comment?

    Southbeach> I was amazed at how stupid a person who spent 50 years covering Washington DC and politics could be at making such a non-PC remark.

    C4> So the problem, in your eyes, was that she made a "non-PC remark" rather than that what she said was bigoted and wrong?

    SB> We can devote another thread to whether the words she spoke were right or wrong. Plenty of people feel the same way she does. Plenty of people disagree with what she said.

    We don't need another thread for you to answer the question, unless you're trying to beat around the bush and avoid it.
    TigerTim saidThe things she said are dreadful. She should apologize for them. There's little more to say.

    C4> That doesn't appear so difficult to write.
    Why do you think a handful of people can't bring themselves to say that?
    And nonetheless say more and more? [As cover for what they haven't said.]

    SB> That's my point!

    It is your point?
    Do you believe that what Helen Thomas said is "dreadful"?
    Be concise, Southbeach! Yes or No?


    reppaT Posts: 1171

    Jun 11, 2010 11:20 AM

    southbeach1500 saidI just made a personal appeal via RJ email to pouncer to stay on topic. If he refuses, just as you are refusing to C4, then yes, I will delete this topic.



    meninlove Posts: 8703

    Jun 11, 2010 11:24 AM
    southbeach1500 saidI just made a personal appeal via RJ email to pouncer to stay on topic. If he refuses, just as you are refusing to C4, then yes, I will delete this topic.


    Good lord, and here we have noren chasing after us like a rabid dog
    in the forums claiming we're against free speech.


    meninlove Posts: 8703
    Ignore His Posts
    Jun 11, 2010 11:26 AM

    Oh, we'll let you find that out.


    reppaT Posts: 1171

    Jun 11, 2010 11:38 AM

    southbeach, your logic is mind-blowingly ... Republican in nature.

    It's okay. I've saved the entire thread, and though it will be a pain, I'll gladly re-post every response (with the same headline) in order to keep it going.