Understanding the Unemployed

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 21, 2010 5:55 PM GMT
    So um....this lady things that "entitlement" programs are keeping people from working.

    Hmm...I always thought it was the skyrocketing cost of living and the fact that wages arent going any higher...these oversimplified views of complex issues are really getting annoying.

    Thoughts? Ideas?

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    Jun 21, 2010 6:29 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidAngle is correct.

    It is not the "job" of the Federal government to create jobs.

    And the continued extension of jobless benefits does provide less of an incentive for the unemployed to just take "any" job.


    Its not about incentive, its about survival. The reason the payout for these programs have gone up is because of the cost of living. WHY haven't wages gone up as well? The only people making more money now are those who have all the money.

    You arent going to take a "honest" job at walmart where you cant get enough hours, cant make ends meet, and cant even get benefits. Throw in douche bag management and shit respect from the corporate offices and yea no one wants to work there because there is no goddamn point. Improve conditions and wages for employees and get more people working.

    The fact that unemployment pays more than working 50 hours on unemployment is a direct result of corporate lobbying and greed.

    Facts:

    -Cost of living has skyrocketed while wages have stayed the same.

    -The wage AND wealth gaps were widening before the recession and is bigger than ever now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 21, 2010 6:56 PM GMT
    It´s much better to have a society where the weak and vulnerable are eliminated. They are a drain on the rest of us and don´t pull their weight.
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    Jun 21, 2010 6:56 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    Its not about incentive, its about survival.

    If it was about survival, then people would take any job they can get, rather than do the calculation, and survive on canned tuna fish until something better came along.


    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    The reason the payout for these programs have gone up is because of the cost of living. WHY haven't wages gone up as well? The only people making more money now are those who have all the money.

    Not really on topic... more of a class warfare rant.




    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    You arent going to take a "honest" job at walmart where you cant get enough hours, cant make ends meet, and cant even get benefits. Throw in douche bag management and shit respect from the corporate offices and yea no one wants to work there because there is no goddamn point. Improve conditions and wages for employees and get more people working..

    Again... sounds like a class warfare rant.





    As Warren Buffet famously said of the Bush administration, "It is class warfare and my side is winning. It shouldn't be but it is."

    The repeal of many of the regulations and taxes that kept wealth in check as a political force has led to the current crisis of job loss. In fact, most corporate executives will tell you they have no reason to reinstate positions eliminated during the crisis because those who remain employed will simply work longer and harder to keep there jobs.

    Whereas in Europe, the corporate headquarters would be shut down by protests, here in the US, most people just bend over. And then, of course, there are right-wing tools like you who think they deserve all that life has to offer and the hoi polloi are there to serve you.
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    Jun 21, 2010 7:03 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidIt´s much better to have a society where the weak and vulnerable are eliminated. They are a drain on the rest of us and don´t pull their weight.


    I am just going to assume you were kidding about the social Darwinism...

    The sick and elderly are some of the BIGGEST boons to the economy believe it or not, the amount of jobs a long term care patient creates vastly outweighs the cost of keeping them alive.

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    Jun 21, 2010 7:07 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    Its not about incentive, its about survival.

    If it was about survival, then people would take any job they can get and survive on canned tuna fish, rather than do the calculation and collect unemployment instead while they wait for something more palatable to come along.

    You are so right, these people should just get some shit job where they DON'T get enough hours or pay and in the process lose their home,car,pretty much everything right?

    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    The reason the payout for these programs have gone up is because of the cost of living. WHY haven't wages gone up as well? The only people making more money now are those who have all the money.

    Not really on topic... more of a class warfare rant.

    This issue covers a range of topics, class warfare being one of them. Don't dismiss a fact that's inconvenient.



    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    You arent going to take a "honest" job at walmart where you cant get enough hours, cant make ends meet, and cant even get benefits. Throw in douche bag management and shit respect from the corporate offices and yea no one wants to work there because there is no goddamn point. Improve conditions and wages for employees and get more people working..

    Again... sounds like a class warfare rant.

    See above, stop trying to dismiss facts and points simply because they run counter to your argument.




  • nessthing

    Posts: 68

    Jun 21, 2010 7:10 PM GMT
    There are probably much more damaging videos you could play of Angle. Like ones where she's confused about her own political positions.
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    Jun 21, 2010 7:10 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    And then, of course, there are right-wing tools like you who think they deserve all that life has to offer and the hoi polloi are there to serve you.

    Nope. Try again.

    But how about going back to the original topic instead of making this a "Hooray for Socialism" rant.

    Original topic:

    this lady thinks that "entitlement" programs are keeping people from working.



    DoomsDayAlpaca
    So um....this lady things that "entitlement" programs are keeping people from working.

    Hmm...I always thought it was the skyrocketing cost of living and the fact that wages arent going any higher...these oversimplified views of complex issues are really getting annoying.

    Thoughts? Ideas?


    Reading comprehension fail much?

  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Jun 21, 2010 11:31 PM GMT
    It is not the entitlement programs themselves that prevent people from working, it is the small percentage of people that get onto these entitlement programs and abuse the system costing taxpayers tons of money. However if any group of people are welfare cheats in this country, it is the very rich. A good example are your professional sports teams especially the NFL, NBA, and the NL. The wealthy team owners expect the taxpayers to foot the entire bill for the land acquisition, design, and construction of their glorified playpens and then these owners do whatever they damned well please and threaten to leave town if they don't get their way or in another words the government doesn't give them more free money at taxpayer expense. Those are the guys that have been feeding off American taxpayers for too damn long. It is time to end the costly corporate welfare for professional sports and tell these owners to stop paying their players such astronomical salaries. No football, baseball,or basketball player deserves to be payed hundreds of millions of dollars a year. That is just ridiculous. It is time to pull the plug on government funding for professional sports teams.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Jun 23, 2010 10:07 PM GMT
    SouthBeach, it is not only the crooked politicians that win but also the greedy sports team owners and their steroid addicted, horribly overpaid professional athletes. It is a terrible disgrace.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Jun 23, 2010 10:20 PM GMT
    SouthBeach you have to keep in mind the tremendous pressure placed on political leaders by the wealthy sports team owners and the professional sports leagues because if these rich bastards don't get their way, they pack up and move their sports team someplace else where the politicians and voters both will give them an astronomical free handout. If anything, I blame the voters for being so naive into voting for costly bond issues to build these gigantic playpens for these professional sports teams.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 23, 2010 10:29 PM GMT
    That's not my problem...

    Sorry not my dept...

    Don't know, don't care

    At least she's got passing the Buck down, but hey, it's also not really the presidents job to oversea BP's mess icon_neutral.gif

  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Jun 23, 2010 10:37 PM GMT
    That is the whole damn trouble with todays US economy, most of the jobs available pay horribly low wages with greatly reduced benefits. That is just valid proof that a service based economy does not work. We need to revitalize and expand our manufacturing and agricultural sectors or the US is going to be in some very serious trouble.
  • seven_deadly_...

    Posts: 104

    Jun 23, 2010 10:45 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidIf it was about survival, then people would take any job they can get and survive on canned tuna fish, rather than do the calculation and collect unemployment instead while they wait for something more palatable to come along.


    In my opinion, there are probably people who do what southbeach suggests. If I got laid off and had a choice between working a minimum wage paying job that earned me less than what I'd get through unemployment insurance, I'm not sure what I would do. I can certainly see how it would be attractive to remain on unemployment.

    On the other hand, if I was laid off and able to find work that paid at (or close to) what I'd make through unemployment, I'd definitely go back to work.

    Does anyone else see it as a problem that "middle class" jobs are disappearing, increasingly leaving only minimum wage paying jobs? Perhaps the real thing that's keeping people from working is the lack of jobs which pay a living wage.
  • jmanorlando

    Posts: 205

    Jun 23, 2010 11:21 PM GMT
    I know people who receive unemployment and play Farmville, video game sand screw around all day and I know some people working their ass off to find a job or I know people who work 2 and 3 jobs.

    Certain programs help good people get through tough times and that is the goal and the reason for the programs, other people abuse the system and basically say the government owes me and they do nothing to improve where they are or try to make their own way.

    Like everything there is some truth to some of the things she says, not all of it but some. How do you balance things, how do you make sure the good people get the money and others who abuse the system don't?





  • jmanorlando

    Posts: 205

    Jun 23, 2010 11:29 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidThat is the whole damn trouble with todays US economy, most of the jobs available pay horribly low wages with greatly reduced benefits. That is just valid proof that a service based economy does not work. We need to revitalize and expand our manufacturing and agricultural sectors or the US is going to be in some very serious trouble.


    We already are in trouble but the average Chinese worker earns $1 and change a day. A day!

    The other issue is the US can't regulate and tax every industry to death. The higher the cost to build in the US, the better it looks to build overseas. Seriously, try running your own small business - Business Tax, Occupation Tax, State License Tax - then try to offer extra benefits and the costs quickly skyrocket. Then when someone does "take a risk" and invest in the US - Workers look to sue over tons of issues, the unions want in to run your shop into the ground, etc... I could go on but - it is almost impossible to plan your business today with no idea what businesses will face next year.
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    Jun 23, 2010 11:37 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidAngle is correct.

    It is not the "job" of the Federal government to create jobs.

    And the continued extension of jobless benefits does provide less of an incentive for the unemployed to just take "any" job.


    Could you please share the data that shows the number of people who are unemployed that are willfully staying unemployed in order to receive jobless benefits?
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    Jun 23, 2010 11:45 PM GMT
    icon_lol.gif
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    Jun 23, 2010 11:46 PM GMT
    I’m trying to imagine what would happen if all benefits ceased with between 9 and 15 percent of the population unemployed?

    I don’t like the idea of people cheating the system; but ending benefits in the middle of the worst economic catastrophe since the 30’s could have serious consequences for the stability of our country. I believe there would be riots.

  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Jun 23, 2010 11:48 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidIt´s much better to have a society where the weak and vulnerable are eliminated. They are a drain on the rest of us and don´t pull their weight.

    " social trash. "
    - Karl Marx
  • DanielQQ

    Posts: 365

    Jun 24, 2010 12:02 AM GMT
    I think entitlement programs have some serious problems. Way too easy to exploit. There is a lot of work to be done around this country... building roads, picking up trash, planting trees, etc. i think that instead of giving people free money while they sit around and play video games, people collecting federal tax dollars ought to do SOMETHING in return... even if just 1-2 days a week.
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    Jun 24, 2010 12:02 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    jmanorlando saidThe other issue is the US can't regulate and tax every industry to death. The higher the cost to build in the US, the better it looks to build overseas. Seriously, try running your own small business - Business Tax, Occupation Tax, State License Tax - then try to offer extra benefits and the costs quickly skyrocket. Then when someone does "take a risk" and invest in the US - Workers look to sue over tons of issues, the unions want in to run your shop into the ground, etc... I could go on but - it is almost impossible to plan your business today with no idea what businesses will face next year.

    Very well said.

    Unfortunately, most on here won't be able to understand what you wrote, as they are blinded by hatred of business and love of the nanny-state government.


    Southbeach, I’m more liberal…and I understand what jmanorlando wrote. But it is the general public manning the oars, and keeping a business' boat moving. Executives steer the boat, but the boat goes nowhere moving the rudder alone.

    Many people work their honest 40 hr/wk job at minimum wage, and cannot make ends meet.

    Orlando had a disparity between wages and cost of living before the housing bubble burst. Many minimum wage earners could barely afford RENT on an apartment, much less a mortgage. I was there. I know
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    Jun 24, 2010 12:04 AM GMT
    DanielQQ saidI think entitlement programs have some serious problems. Way too easy to exploit. There is a lot of work to be done around this country... building roads, picking up trash, planting trees, etc. i think that instead of giving people free money while they sit around and play video games, people collecting federal tax dollars ought to do SOMETHING in return... even if just 1-2 days a week.


    I’m surprised there isn’t a huge, nationwide infrastructure revitalization program in place NOW. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jun 24, 2010 12:20 AM GMT
    I watched the video, and I'm stunned at her statement. The unemployed are abusers of entitlement?

    Her point is completely upside-down. Her claim is that unemployment benefits are better than poor-paying (but honorable) jobs. She accidentally made the point that wages are shit...and it's smarter to stay on unemployment.

    But who are we blaming for this? Lazy workforce? The corporations--to avoid taxation and paying fair wages--ship their headquarters overseas...yet keep the US as a customer.

    I'd like to hear how she, as a senator, is going to encourage job creation, stimulate the economy, keep corporations accountable to US labor. Her solution is to blame the victims. Bitch.
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    Jun 24, 2010 12:23 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    n8698u said
    I’m surprised there isn’t a huge, nationwide infrastructure revitalization program in place NOW. icon_rolleyes.gif

    I know... all we've got is the Barack Obama Highway so far... icon_rolleyes.gif

    Here's a few ideas for some big time projects that are way past due:

    1) Repaving of most of the interstate highway system

    2) Replacement of water mains in most major cities (up to 50% of water in some systems is lost to leaks)

    3) High speed rail which, for the most part, can be elevated over most of the interstate highway system

    4) Most controversial I know... but build a massive wall along the southern border of the USA


    I agree with 75%. 1,2, and 3.
    What I find so ironic, here in Orlando we have the monorail system transporting MILLIONS of people around Disneyworld every year, but we can’t get anything nearly as efficient across the state of Florida…at least definitively. Nationwide highspeed or MagLev rail??? What, like France???