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How much are we ruled by aesthetics?

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Mar 04, 2008 4:03 AM GMT

Guys, I was thinking about the guys I checked out today while I was out and about, I was really curious about how my own personal aesthetic taste determined who I looked at and who I didn't. I know men are visual creatures by nature and there are definately other factors at play here. What do you guys think

Doug

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Mar 04, 2008 1:19 PM GMT

Definitely.

I was struck by a line on the series I as watching on YouTube 'Paradise Falls'. The guy was complaining to a girl how he wasn't good looking enough. The girl replied by saying he looked good.

He replied that in the straight world he'd be a 7, but in the gay world he'd be 5, tops.

And another line from it, a girl asked why gay guys are so good looking. He replied if you're ugly and gay you get strapped unto an iceberg and sent to Antarctica or something.

I do think we focus unnecessarily on looks. I'm guilty too. Straight men are like that too anyway.

P.S. Don't send me to Antarctica!!!

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Mar 04, 2008 4:22 PM GMT

I was treated like a 3 in the straight world before I was out, not that I was.
Women tend to harbor resentment for a goodlookin man. I suppose they think we'll lie to them.
However, when I switched to gay I was instantly a 10.....The End.

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Mar 04, 2008 4:41 PM GMT

Antartica isn't so bad. You've just got to dress in layers. At least it isn't humid. I hate humidity.

Also: hot-tubbing in the snow...that's living!

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Mar 04, 2008 4:41 PM GMT

I think it's in the gene somewhere. Before I came out I use to get all sorts of comments from my wife regarding how particular I was about my dress and looks. But she would not have wanted me to be a "mess" either.

From what I've seen str8 guys don't place the value on being neat and "coordinated" but I'll tell you, now that I'm out and going other places, it's like a competition out there. In a way that aesthetic look really hampers a person from seeing another guy for who they really are. They already have their perceived image based solely on a persons looks.

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Mar 04, 2008 4:48 PM GMT

Is it, isn't it? For some guys looks are absolutely everything, and sometimes the only thing. They give up a possible life lived with a commited partner, in hopes for obtaining the joy and recognition of beauty, no matter how fleeting.

On the other hand, there are guys who long for commitment and love from another man. They place a higher value in what's inside. The inner workings of their personality and goals. But sometimes, these guys are short changed by a culture where pecks and perfect hair are everything, and love is just another in a pantheon of lifestyle fads.

Are aesthetic or genuine importance, or are they not? Suppose the answer lyes on what you inevitably find more important. Do you want the bachelor lifestyle until you're no longer fit to participate; or do you want a more stable commited lifestyle with someone you can trust and love?

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Mar 04, 2008 4:57 PM GMT

Interesting topic. Agreed that men, in general, are visually stimulated. When it comes to profiles and hot lists, I definitely weigh the aesthetic factor before clicking Add to hotlist.

When it comes to real-life, I am still affected by looks, but I find that my tastes in real-life are far less idealized. I am also apt to notice guys with great smiles, cool hair, interesting mannerisms or other less "erotic" features when out in public -- even if those same guys wouldn't show up on my hotlist. Photos don't always do one justice, and there is much more to a person than his/her outer appearance.

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Mar 04, 2008 6:13 PM GMT

boiwunderkind saidIs it, isn't it? For some guys looks are absolutely everything, and sometimes the only thing. They give up a possible life lived with a commited partner, in hopes for obtaining the joy and recognition of beauty, no matter how fleeting.

On the other hand, there are guys who long for commitment and love from another man. They place a higher value in what's inside. The inner workings of their personality and goals. But sometimes, these guys are short changed by a culture where pecks and perfect hair are everything, and love is just another in a pantheon of lifestyle fads.

Are aesthetic or genuine importance, or are they not? Suppose the answer lyes on what you inevitably find more important. Do you want the bachelor lifestyle until you're no longer fit to participate; or do you want a more stable commited lifestyle with someone you can trust and love?

I hope that's an oversimplification. Yes, there are guys to whom looks are the end-all be-all, but there are also plenty of guys out there who carry around preconceived notions that every attractive guy out there is a shallow commitment-phobic lifelong bachelor and player.

Yeah, guys tend to be very visually-motivated, often. I won't lie - I won't date someone I don't find physically attractive. But I ALSO won't date someone I don't find intellectually attractive or emotionally beautiful.

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Mar 04, 2008 6:47 PM GMT

I wouldn't say I am ruled by asthetics. I like to date good looking guys - but that can't be all. Guys I go out with have to have a lot more than just looks. Attitude, confidence, intelligence, humor, ambition, keen interest in something - these are key for me. It can't be all asthetics.....you have to come out of the bedroom sometime, and then you'd better have some of these key attributes to bring to the table.

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Mar 04, 2008 7:22 PM GMT

It's a given, men are MORE into Aesthetics than women! I mean how many BEAUTIFUL women do you see with a man that looks like, well nothing in comparison, however he probably has everything else for her; women can slide the Aesthetics thing up and down the scale as long as "he" has everything else. As for men, we tend to keep Aesthetics in our top 3 as a requirement!!

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Mar 04, 2008 8:01 PM GMT

GuiltyGear said
I was treated like a 3 in the straight world before I was out, not that I was.
Women tend to harbor resentment for a goodlookin man. I suppose they think we'll lie to them.
However, when I switched to gay I was instantly a 10.....The End.

Ummm no. Who are you fooling dude?

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Mar 04, 2008 8:03 PM GMT

Of course, everyone is judged by the way they look. However, the sentiment expressed by many in regards to gay men all being attractive is completely false.

There are unattractive, average, and good looking gay men just like they are unattractive, average, and good looking straight men.

Furthermore, I've hear the word "you're gorgeous" tossed around far too often in gay clubs. When I first started hearing it, I thought I was special, then I realized EVERYONE uses it to describe EVERYONE.

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Mar 04, 2008 8:40 PM GMT

But do these more attractive gods have a better time than everyone else?

Why don't we ask chazzad?

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Mar 04, 2008 9:48 PM GMT

MikeOnMain saidAntartica isn't so bad. You've just got to dress in layers. At least it isn't humid. I hate humidity.

Also: hot-tubbing in the snow...that's living!

Very droll. Like anyone would send YOU to Antarctica.

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Mar 04, 2008 10:00 PM GMT

Guys are more visually driven, but fortunately each of us is attracted by different things about a guy. I notice guys eyes, mouths, bums. I am also attracted to geeky smart guys. So called "dumb" jocks used to attract me physically but not for a relationship.

I also was not crazy about one night stands so even if a really good looking guy showed an interest, unless I was in the right mood I would pass it up. I figued what is the point if it can't lead anywhere else (e.g. I am on vacation)?

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Mar 04, 2008 10:02 PM GMT

jprichva said[quote][cite]MikeOnMain said[/cite]Antartica isn't so bad. You've just got to dress in layers. At least it isn't humid. I hate humidity.

Also: hot-tubbing in the snow...that's living!

Very droll. Like anyone would send YOU to Antarctica.

[/quote]

I agree, talking about false modesty.

I would love to go to the Antartica, I love penguins! But just to visit.

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Mar 05, 2008 12:09 AM GMT

What becomes interesting, and I think relevant to some of the responses to your question, is how we, as human beings, value other members of our species. I think that an answer to this question, and the subsequent valuation of the object in question, is a solid link between aesthetics AND ethics. (ethics being a logical response and aesthetics being a purely visceral response)
I say both because people are much more attractive in" their element" (ie. a doting dad, a great athlete, an animal lover, a compelling communicator etc.) A cute gay guy with a great body, frankly, is a dime a dozen in most larger cities. My heart rarely pounds harder unless I have been stimulated both logically and aesthetically. If i saw a cute guy leave a building without holding the door open for someone, their stock would plummet but an average guy could remember to hold it open and he would be Brad Pitt to me. I think that is why I would have a hard time defining my type. I find myself swooning over the most ordinary men as long as they are articulate or passionate about what they are doing in life. I can develop a crush on a guy on the train based on the book he is reading or his inability to hold in his laughter at something inappropriate more easily than just the basis of physical beauty.

In a society where we are bombarded with images of beautiful, physically perfect idiots, I find myself less and less interested in the mundaneness of physical perfection.

GQjock

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Mar 05, 2008 12:15 AM GMT

Gay men definitely focus alot on looks
but I think that men in general
Str8 men focus on looks in women too
They should focus some of that attention on themselves

I'm at the point when I see a goodlooking tightbodied man who dresses well over the age of thirty he's gay and is fair game

I haven't been wrong yet

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Mar 05, 2008 12:16 AM GMT

...enough to pursue and achieve that aesthetic standard in ourselves by any means possible.

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Mar 05, 2008 9:33 AM GMT

I knew it!

You're all gonna send me to Antarctica!

But not without a fight!

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Mar 05, 2008 1:57 PM GMT

I have noticed that as I have gotten older my aesthetics have changed. What attracted me at 20 or 30 doesn't always turn my head at 40. Today I have no interest in a guy with a build like a boy or a guy with a boyish face who might only shave once a week. I agree with MNjock, it's the little things that go along with the guy that can make him hot, the way he walks or holds his drink. I guess it also depends on deep you get into the little details of life and what you notice.

Doug

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Mar 05, 2008 9:32 PM GMT

to me, there's more to it...the way the body moves is important, the accent, the pitch, the pace, the attitude...all in all the whole package as you get to know the guy...and we all lose our charms in the end!

PS: Antartica is beautiful, and you gotta keep close to the others to keep warm...

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Mar 05, 2008 10:00 PM GMT

i read somewhere once that we get information from our senses in the following way:

90% sight
5% hearing
3% touch
1.5% smell
0.5% taste

if that's true, then yes, we have no choice but to be "ruled" by visual aesthetics.

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Mar 06, 2008 12:03 AM GMT

plus we are animals governed by the same instincts and desires as they are. we think we are seperate but many animals and birds have weird dances and decorate themselves to attract a mate, or gather a bunch of twigs and rocks and build a hut to attract a mate (their version of materialism). and dont forget the buck with the biggest horns gets to mate or have his harem..so female animals are often very picky and will pick a healthy, strong, attractive or brightly colored mate. in the wild, they arent looking for wit, humor, spontinaity or career ambition.

so yeah, i think looks are vitally important, then the other factors come into play..personality, intelligence, humor, interests...posture even. so we can drool over some hottie, but then find him utterly boring, while we can have no initial interest in someone not our type, and then get to know them and develope a bond.

**however, i am not so sure about gay animals. i know researchers in the field who witness "gay animals" - usually a bunch of males who live together for protection and who are unable to mate with a herd of females who are dominted by one male who fights them off. they will "mount" each other and show affection, etc. but i am not sure if they go out of their way to fight, or impress each other to win over one male over the other, or if they think one is hotter than another..who knows.

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How much are we ruled by aesthetics?