Ireland should leave the E.U and join the U.S.A?!

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  Oct 24, 2010 3:27 PM GMT

  these two articles were on the front page of the Sunday independent, just thought they were a good read-
  
  http://www.independent.ie/national-news/soden-lets-quit-eu-and-join-us-2392427.html
  
  http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/frederick-forsyth-rise-up-reclaim-your-country-2392492.html
  
  
  (but knowing how pro europe the entire establishment is in ireland this will all be forgotten by tomorrow)

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  Oct 24, 2010 3:31 PM GMT

  I think Ireland's problems---and solutions---lie in Ireland, not in the EU or the USA.

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  Oct 24, 2010 3:43 PM GMT

  http://www.independent.ie/national-news/soden-lets-quit-eu-and-join-us-2392427.html
  
  http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/frederick-forsyth-rise-up-reclaim-your-country-2392492.html
  
  After inserting the links, highlight each one and hit the URL button above to make them live.
  
  I've always considered the EU concept interesting because it seemed to me that it was founded based on conflicting goals. Germany was a big supporter because there was a belief that the strength in the German economy could influence policies and work-ethics in poorer counties and all would benefit. The poorer countries supported it because they felt an alliance with the wealthier countries would strengthen themselves. They would have to meet certain conditions of membership, but their fundamental culture and work-ethic could remain unchanged.
  
  It always seemed logical for there to be some sort of union to reduce trade barriers, facilitate standards, and have economic strength as a union that individual countries would not have. Even basic things such as phone and electrical plugs differed among many countries. I always felt the bureaucrats in Brussels wanted to create a organization with their power supreme and the individual countries subordinate. The states within the US generally share a common culture, language, and work-ethic, unlike the differences among the European countries. Always seemed to me that the tight central control from Brussels would be challenged.

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  Oct 24, 2010 8:22 PM GMT

  TigerTim saidI think Ireland's problems---and solutions---lie in Ireland, not in the EU or the USA.

  
  
  
  actually a LOT of irelands current problems have been caused by our membership of the e.u (e.g the e.u demanding that our banks must be saved at any cost- that cost has so far been calculated at roughly 100 billion euro- for a country of 4.5 million people).

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  Oct 24, 2010 8:43 PM GMT

  leixguy said

  TigerTim saidI think Ireland's problems---and solutions---lie in Ireland, not in the EU or the USA.

  
  
  
  actually a LOT of irelands current problems have been caused by our membership of the e.u (e.g the e.u demanding that our banks must be saved at any cost- that cost has so far been calculated at roughly 100 billion euro- for a country of 4.5 million people).

  
  
  And a government of rampant incompetence combined with reckless greed is not to blame. Oh no.
  
  

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  Oct 24, 2010 10:16 PM GMT

  of course it is, our government, property developers and bankers have caused our problems. However what i am saying is that had the government been allowed to let the banking system fail then we would not have to spend 100 billion saving the banks (which has virtually bankrupted the state and will cause decades of renewed emigration, reductions in standard of living etc)

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  Oct 24, 2010 10:26 PM GMT

  Join the US??? ...
  
  That's like rowing out to be on the Titantic! ...
  
  Don't wanna a chance at that!

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  Oct 24, 2010 10:28 PM GMT

  leixguy saidof course it is, our government, property developers and bankers have caused our problems. However what i am saying is that had the government been allowed to let the banking system fail then we would not have to spend 100 billion saving the banks (which has virtually bankrupted the state and will cause decades of renewed emigration, reductions in standard of living etc)

  
  
  Oh pshaw. If you let your banking system fail your entire country would never be able to raise capital again. Plus, in letting banks fail, which do you choose? Do you:
  
  (i) Fuck the poor in your country who suddenly lose their life savings/assets/paychecks etc?
  
  (ii) Fuck the foreign investors? In which case you might remember Ireland is a minnow in a very big and nasty pond.
  
  (iii) Fuck the rich who in any case are the best place to flee to somewhere better?
  
  or if not who exactly do you fuck?
  
  You're an utter idiot if you think Ireland would be any better off for letting the banking system fail.

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  Oct 24, 2010 10:51 PM GMT

  You're an utter idiot if you think Ireland would be any better off spending 100+ billion saving banks in a country of 4.5 million rather than letting the banks fail.
  

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  Oct 24, 2010 11:05 PM GMT

  leixguy saidYou're an utter idiot if you think Ireland would be any better off spending 100+ billion saving banks in a country of 4.5 million rather than letting the banks fail.
  

  
  But if banks fail, doesn't credit stop ...and then commerce stop ...and then everybody's fucked.
  
  Letting Lehman Brothers fail in the US was a mistake, cuz so many lost money that it caused the system to start to freeze up. Then the gov't had to quickly jump in with money to get credit moving again.

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  Oct 24, 2010 11:24 PM GMT

  well im not necessarily saying that ALL the banks should have been allowed fail, but those banks that were not systemic should have been let fail. for example letting anglo irish bank fail would have saved 30-35 billion- keep in mind that at the time it was nationalised the government was under the impression that the state would make money out of it, and that at worst it would break even, then a few months later it was going to cost 2 billion then 4 and now its 30-35. this bank has never lent to real economy, all of its business was related property- much of it not in ireland.
  
  one of the biggest lies the government told us was that the bailouts would get the banks lending again but that has not happened, for many people it is virtually impossible to attain credit. If the government had of spend a tiny fraction of the money they spend on bailouts on setting up a new state bank that would lend to businesses it would have been money much better spent (the main opposition party advocated that option)
  

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  Oct 24, 2010 11:44 PM GMT

  leixguy saidwell im not necessarily saying that ALL the banks should have been allowed fail, but those banks that were not systemic should have been let fail. for example letting anglo irish bank fail would have saved 30-35 billion- keep in mind that at the time it was nationalised the government was under the impression that the state would make money out of it, and that at worst it would break even, then a few months later it was going to cost 2 billion then 4 and now its 30-35. this bank has never lent to real economy, all of its business was related property- much of it not in ireland.
  
  one of the biggest lies the government told us was that the bailouts would get the banks lending again but that has not happened, for many people it is virtually impossible to attain credit. If the government had of spend a tiny fraction of the money they spend on bailouts on setting up a new state bank that would lend to businesses it would have been money much better spent (the main opposition party advocated that option)
  

  
  
  Hmmmmm....I think all our banks and corps have just about paid all the govt money back.
  
  Good thing too cuz they are about to get a second whammy with fraudulent foreclosures without proper paperwork. People are going to be able to take the banks to court and the banks arent going to be able to prove that the money is owed. The people will skate and the banks will be out a lot of cash.

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  Oct 25, 2010 1:02 AM GMT

  This thread is stupid.... seriously.....I only read you're first article, PS learn to make a hyperlink
  
  No one is making the government provide bank support...They jumped in to do it ass soon as the financial crisis began. So what are you expecting, Oh we swore to the international markets to not allow our banks to fail...but we acted without thinking, didn't consider the consequences were back peddling...fuck our international credibility...were already a joke of a sovereign nation
  
  The EU is not forcing our hand..the EU hasn't forced anyone, ever in fact it's because of the lack of force in controlling run away spending that were in this situation. If you and your fellow Irish idiots hadn't balled up Nice and Lisbon maybe the EU might have been actually able to get closer political integration and this wouldn't be so bad...But no drunk Irish idiots thinking they're outside of the tent flexing they're tiny muscles and pissing all over the EU when in fact all they are doing is pissing over themselves.
  
  If we weren't tied top the euro....we wouldn't have been able to borrow so much at the rates we do for so long, we would have been down graded to below junk and and out busted Iceland and greece months back if not years back
  
  We have milked the EU out of millions of AG subsidies, development funds, cheaper exports and even cheaper credit for years. The EU and the IMF are still propping us up as we speak
  
  Blame who you want I don't have the time to type fuller response...But it's YOU'RE FAULT...You in you're stupidity that is lashing out for someone, anyone else to take the blame....Basically the image your putting forward and saying is it's not our fault were a nation of Pig farmers and village idiots...Da Banks and da goovernmetn and da EU did dun us in... I dunno, we done did is traded our gooverment bonds for some magic beans
  
  Whine all you like but it's no one else's fault, these are the leaders you elected to make these decisions on your behalf and in your interests.
  
  What's done is done...all we can do is move forward
  
  
  
  
  

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  Oct 25, 2010 1:06 AM GMT

  leixguy saidwell im not necessarily saying that ALL the banks should have been allowed fail, but those banks that were not systemic should have been let fail. for example letting anglo irish bank fail would have saved 30-35 billion
  

  
  
  
  Also that would never happen...why should Margret who's pension is in AIB be saved why Mary who's with Anglo left with nothing.
  
  Or what are we suggesting....a multi billion tribunal with 30 years of appeals to determine who should be saved and who should be cut
  
  

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