We hurt our own interests by not voting this year...

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    Nov 11, 2010 3:55 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    rickrick91 said
    IHG84 said*Uses his Nostradamus powers, to predict more inane stupidity conjured from rickrick.*

    Go to bed you pitiful little man lol



    Sorry, IHG, but I'm just not interested in participating in one of those long flame wars you're notorious for starting.
    I have better things to do.

    Before you leave, did you want to retract the comments you made to me? Just a reminder.


    I wouldn't expect acts of decency from people like him.. I remember when he first talked to me, he was talking to me as if I didn't have a right to give my opinions on issues because he thought I didn't serve.. When he found out I was in fact in the military his response was "well there is more than one way to serve your country" to which I replied "yes I know, I do work in my community too"... He had nothing to say, and that's when the convo went into weirdville lol
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:00 AM GMT
    IHG84 said
    socalfitness said
    rickrick91 said
    IHG84 said*Uses his Nostradamus powers, to predict more inane stupidity conjured from rickrick.*

    Go to bed you pitiful little man lol



    Sorry, IHG, but I'm just not interested in participating in one of those long flame wars you're notorious for starting.
    I have better things to do.

    Before you leave, did you want to retract the comments you made to me? Just a reminder.


    I wouldn't expect acts of decency from people like him.. I remember when he first talked to me, he was talking to me as if I didn't have a right to give my opinions on issues because he thought I didn't serve.. When he found out I was in fact in the military his response was "well there is more than one way to serve your country" to which I replied "yes I know, I do work in my community too"... He had nothing to say, and that's when the convo went into weirdville lol

    Well, I wanted to give him a chance and leave the door open. We'll see what he decides.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:00 AM GMT
    IHG84 said
    socalfitness said
    rickrick91 said
    IHG84 said*Uses his Nostradamus powers, to predict more inane stupidity conjured from rickrick.*

    Go to bed you pitiful little man lol



    Sorry, IHG, but I'm just not interested in participating in one of those long flame wars you're notorious for starting.
    I have better things to do.

    Before you leave, did you want to retract the comments you made to me? Just a reminder.


    I wouldn't expect acts of decency from people like him.. I remember when he first talked to me, he was talking to me as if I didn't have a right to give my opinions on issues because he thought I didn't serve.. When he found out I was in fact in the military his response was "well there is more than one way to serve your country" to which I replied "yes I know, I do work in my community too"... He had nothing to say, and that's when the convo went into weirdville lol



    That's a complete lie.
    If you want to have any credibilty - prove it.
    Otherwise, everyone will know that you're a liar.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:02 AM GMT
    IHG and SoCal together again.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:04 AM GMT
    n8698u saidIHG and SoCal together again.



    Like famine and pestilence.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:05 AM GMT
    rickrick91 saidand now we're screwed - unless the Democrats can somehow get a few Republicans to vote to repeal DADT.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_re_as/as_election_gates

    We cannot afford to sit out elections.
    We must VOTE if we want our interests represented, and if we want to keep the anti-gay Republicans from having the power to deny us our equal rights.


    I agree with you on this. People should vote, but only if they actually know a good deal about the people they're voting for. What's the use in voting for someone you know little to nothing about? And it's worse when the person you vote for turns out to be a total schmuck. Yes, you can do research and such, but still, you only know what others are telling you. Finding honest information is hard these days. But hey, this is just my opinion icon_razz.gif
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:08 AM GMT
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 saidand now we're screwed - unless the Democrats can somehow get a few Republicans to vote to repeal DADT.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_re_as/as_election_gates

    We cannot afford to sit out elections.
    We must VOTE if we want our interests represented, and if we want to keep the anti-gay Republicans from having the power to deny us our equal rights.


    I agree with you on this. People should vote, but only if they actually know a good deal about the people they're voting for. What's the use in voting for someone you know little to nothing about? And it's worse when the person you vote for turns out to be a total schmuck. Yes, you can do research and such, but still, you only know what others are telling you. Finding honest information is hard these days. But hey, this is just my opinion icon_razz.gif




    You're right.
    There's a lot more misinformation going around nowadays, and people getting their news from sources that have a bias - so it's harder to make an informed vote.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:14 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 saidand now we're screwed - unless the Democrats can somehow get a few Republicans to vote to repeal DADT.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_re_as/as_election_gates

    We cannot afford to sit out elections.
    We must VOTE if we want our interests represented, and if we want to keep the anti-gay Republicans from having the power to deny us our equal rights.


    I agree with you on this. People should vote, but only if they actually know a good deal about the people they're voting for. What's the use in voting for someone you know little to nothing about? And it's worse when the person you vote for turns out to be a total schmuck. Yes, you can do research and such, but still, you only know what others are telling you. Finding honest information is hard these days. But hey, this is just my opinion icon_razz.gif




    You're right.
    There's a lot more misinformation going around nowadays, and people getting their news from sources that have a bias - so it's harder to make an informed vote.


    One reason I didn't vote for Obama. I knew nothing about him and judging from that bigass media campaign he did, I had a feeling that he was lying about many things. All talk, little to no action.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:24 AM GMT
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 saidand now we're screwed - unless the Democrats can somehow get a few Republicans to vote to repeal DADT.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_re_as/as_election_gates

    We cannot afford to sit out elections.
    We must VOTE if we want our interests represented, and if we want to keep the anti-gay Republicans from having the power to deny us our equal rights.


    I agree with you on this. People should vote, but only if they actually know a good deal about the people they're voting for. What's the use in voting for someone you know little to nothing about? And it's worse when the person you vote for turns out to be a total schmuck. Yes, you can do research and such, but still, you only know what others are telling you. Finding honest information is hard these days. But hey, this is just my opinion icon_razz.gif




    You're right.
    There's a lot more misinformation going around nowadays, and people getting their news from sources that have a bias - so it's harder to make an informed vote.


    One reason I didn't vote for Obama. I knew nothing about him and judging from that bigass media campaign he did, I had a feeling that he was lying about many things. All talk, little to no action.


    Eh, I knew enough. For cleaning up the environment, against corporate abuse, intelligent, and at the very least ambivalent about gay rights instead of violently opposed too.

    That and McCain/Palin are firmly AGAINST net neutrality which is enough for ANYONE to lose my vote.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:30 AM GMT
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 saidand now we're screwed - unless the Democrats can somehow get a few Republicans to vote to repeal DADT.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_re_as/as_election_gates

    We cannot afford to sit out elections.
    We must VOTE if we want our interests represented, and if we want to keep the anti-gay Republicans from having the power to deny us our equal rights.


    I agree with you on this. People should vote, but only if they actually know a good deal about the people they're voting for. What's the use in voting for someone you know little to nothing about? And it's worse when the person you vote for turns out to be a total schmuck. Yes, you can do research and such, but still, you only know what others are telling you. Finding honest information is hard these days. But hey, this is just my opinion icon_razz.gif




    You're right.
    There's a lot more misinformation going around nowadays, and people getting their news from sources that have a bias - so it's harder to make an informed vote.


    One reason I didn't vote for Obama. I knew nothing about him and judging from that bigass media campaign he did, I had a feeling that he was lying about many things. All talk, little to no action.




    What were his lies?
    And what proof do you know of that they were lies?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:42 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 saidand now we're screwed - unless the Democrats can somehow get a few Republicans to vote to repeal DADT.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_re_as/as_election_gates

    We cannot afford to sit out elections.
    We must VOTE if we want our interests represented, and if we want to keep the anti-gay Republicans from having the power to deny us our equal rights.


    I agree with you on this. People should vote, but only if they actually know a good deal about the people they're voting for. What's the use in voting for someone you know little to nothing about? And it's worse when the person you vote for turns out to be a total schmuck. Yes, you can do research and such, but still, you only know what others are telling you. Finding honest information is hard these days. But hey, this is just my opinion icon_razz.gif




    You're right.
    There's a lot more misinformation going around nowadays, and people getting their news from sources that have a bias - so it's harder to make an informed vote.


    One reason I didn't vote for Obama. I knew nothing about him and judging from that bigass media campaign he did, I had a feeling that he was lying about many things. All talk, little to no action.




    What were his lies?
    And what proof do you know of that they were lies?


    Well this is just what I've seen so far. Yea, Bush messed up this country and Obama was handed the plate full of crap to sort through. But for one, he said he was going to make this country strong again. Instead, the little money we have is going overseas to help others. We're investing money in countries that really want nothing to do with us. And then this whole healthcare thing....now tell me, forcing healthcare on a nation where many people can't even afford car insurance is ridiculous. The government has been asking for money that we don't have. Yes, Obama is doing a better job than Bush did. But there are still many problems in this country that need to be addressed..before we think about helping anyone else.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 4:59 AM GMT
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 saidand now we're screwed - unless the Democrats can somehow get a few Republicans to vote to repeal DADT.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_re_as/as_election_gates

    We cannot afford to sit out elections.
    We must VOTE if we want our interests represented, and if we want to keep the anti-gay Republicans from having the power to deny us our equal rights.


    I agree with you on this. People should vote, but only if they actually know a good deal about the people they're voting for. What's the use in voting for someone you know little to nothing about? And it's worse when the person you vote for turns out to be a total schmuck. Yes, you can do research and such, but still, you only know what others are telling you. Finding honest information is hard these days. But hey, this is just my opinion icon_razz.gif




    You're right.
    There's a lot more misinformation going around nowadays, and people getting their news from sources that have a bias - so it's harder to make an informed vote.


    One reason I didn't vote for Obama. I knew nothing about him and judging from that bigass media campaign he did, I had a feeling that he was lying about many things. All talk, little to no action.




    What were his lies?
    And what proof do you know of that they were lies?


    Well this is just what I've seen so far. Yea, Bush messed up this country and Obama was handed the plate full of crap to sort through. But for one, he said he was going to make this country strong again. Instead, the little money we have is going overseas to help others. We're investing money in countries that really want nothing to do with us. And then this whole healthcare thing....now tell me, forcing healthcare on a nation where many people can't even afford car insurance is ridiculous. The government has been asking for money that we don't have. Yes, Obama is doing a better job than Bush did. But there are still many problems in this country that need to be addressed..before we think about helping anyone else.

    Regarding integrity issues, and I also included leadership / acting presidential. (I posted this in another thread, but in the context of the lying discussion, it is relevant here.)

    Integrity

    1. Breaking his promise about accepting federal campaign financing

    2. Campaign website disabled credit card billing address verification, thereby facilitating illegal contributions. Such verification is standard internet practice and was followed by both McCain and H. Clinton campaigns. Story broken by NY Post, whose reporters were subsequently kicked off campaign plane.

    3. Continually stating that existing health care plans would not be affected - "If you like your plan, you can keep it." Should have been obvious that would not be the case.

    Leadership / Acting Presidential

    1. Trying to ram health care through Congress prior to Summer 2009 recess to prevent voters from influencing representatives. Showed disdain towards the voters.

    2. Continually finding scapegoats: Bush - 2 years into office, Republicans - when Democrats have clear majorities and could pass whatever they wanted, Voters - being not smart enough to vote Democratic in mid-terms

    3. Other non-Presidential behavior: Telling Hispanics that Republicans are their enemy (not explicitly mentioning Republicans, but clear message), personally going after opponents by name, most recently Boehner. Overall, a mocking of opponents - not the dignified behavior one would expect of a Chief Executive
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 5:01 AM GMT
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 saidand now we're screwed - unless the Democrats can somehow get a few Republicans to vote to repeal DADT.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_re_as/as_election_gates

    We cannot afford to sit out elections.
    We must VOTE if we want our interests represented, and if we want to keep the anti-gay Republicans from having the power to deny us our equal rights.


    I agree with you on this. People should vote, but only if they actually know a good deal about the people they're voting for. What's the use in voting for someone you know little to nothing about? And it's worse when the person you vote for turns out to be a total schmuck. Yes, you can do research and such, but still, you only know what others are telling you. Finding honest information is hard these days. But hey, this is just my opinion icon_razz.gif




    You're right.
    There's a lot more misinformation going around nowadays, and people getting their news from sources that have a bias - so it's harder to make an informed vote.


    One reason I didn't vote for Obama. I knew nothing about him and judging from that bigass media campaign he did, I had a feeling that he was lying about many things. All talk, little to no action.




    What were his lies?
    And what proof do you know of that they were lies?


    Well this is just what I've seen so far. Yea, Bush messed up this country and Obama was handed the plate full of crap to sort through. But for one, he said he was going to make this country strong again. Instead, the little money we have is going overseas to help others. We're investing money in countries that really want nothing to do with us. And then this whole healthcare thing....now tell me, forcing healthcare on a nation where many people can't even afford car insurance is ridiculous. The government has been asking for money that we don't have. Yes, Obama is doing a better job than Bush did. But there are still many problems in this country that need to be addressed..before we think about helping anyone else.




    Well, the government hasn't "been asking for" more money since obama was elected.
    Taxes haven't gone up a dime.
    In fact, one third of the economic recovery bill was additional tax CUTS.

    But, it's cool if you don't agree with some of the things he's done.
    I don't agree with everything either.
    I don't expect to ever have a president who only does things I agree with.

    I just don't think he's lied.
    I think he was oversold as a candidate partly by his own campaign, and a lot more so by the media, and it was always going to be impossible for him to meet expectations.

    The Republicans are going to have the same problem, because they've overpromised with their campaign promises.
    It's just factually impossible to spend money to create the jobs they promised to create and slash government revenues by making the Bush tax cuts permanent and still somehow reduce the National Debt, as they've promised to do.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 5:25 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 said
    Steel241 said
    rickrick91 saidand now we're screwed - unless the Democrats can somehow get a few Republicans to vote to repeal DADT.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_re_as/as_election_gates

    We cannot afford to sit out elections.
    We must VOTE if we want our interests represented, and if we want to keep the anti-gay Republicans from having the power to deny us our equal rights.


    I agree with you on this. People should vote, but only if they actually know a good deal about the people they're voting for. What's the use in voting for someone you know little to nothing about? And it's worse when the person you vote for turns out to be a total schmuck. Yes, you can do research and such, but still, you only know what others are telling you. Finding honest information is hard these days. But hey, this is just my opinion icon_razz.gif




    You're right.
    There's a lot more misinformation going around nowadays, and people getting their news from sources that have a bias - so it's harder to make an informed vote.


    One reason I didn't vote for Obama. I knew nothing about him and judging from that bigass media campaign he did, I had a feeling that he was lying about many things. All talk, little to no action.




    What were his lies?
    And what proof do you know of that they were lies?


    Well this is just what I've seen so far. Yea, Bush messed up this country and Obama was handed the plate full of crap to sort through. But for one, he said he was going to make this country strong again. Instead, the little money we have is going overseas to help others. We're investing money in countries that really want nothing to do with us. And then this whole healthcare thing....now tell me, forcing healthcare on a nation where many people can't even afford car insurance is ridiculous. The government has been asking for money that we don't have. Yes, Obama is doing a better job than Bush did. But there are still many problems in this country that need to be addressed..before we think about helping anyone else.

    Regarding integrity issues, and I also included leadership / acting presidential. (I posted this in another thread, but in the context of the lying discussion, it is relevant here.)

    Integrity

    1. Breaking his promise about accepting federal campaign financing

    2. Campaign website disabled credit card billing address verification, thereby facilitating illegal contributions. Such verification is standard internet practice and was followed by both McCain and H. Clinton campaigns. Story broken by NY Post, whose reporters were subsequently kicked off campaign plane.

    3. Continually stating that existing health care plans would not be affected - "If you like your plan, you can keep it." Should have been obvious that would not be the case.

    Leadership / Acting Presidential

    1. Trying to ram health care through Congress prior to Summer 2009 recess to prevent voters from influencing representatives. Showed disdain towards the voters.

    2. Continually finding scapegoats: Bush - 2 years into office, Republicans - when Democrats have clear majorities and could pass whatever they wanted, Voters - being not smart enough to vote Democratic in mid-terms

    3. Other non-Presidential behavior: Telling Hispanics that Republicans are their enemy (not explicitly mentioning Republicans, but clear message), personally going after opponents by name, most recently Boehner. Overall, a mocking of opponents - not the dignified behavior one would expect of a Chief Executive


    Once more I point you to

    http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/?ref=nf

    And

    http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

  • rioriz

    Posts: 1056

    Nov 11, 2010 6:08 AM GMT
    Back on topic...so the We that was mentioned in in the OP... was that Gays or Americans? Cause if Gays then prolly yes but if Americans then prolly no...
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    Nov 11, 2010 6:16 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    n8698u saidIHG and SoCal together again.



    Like famine and pestilence.


    I betcha Socal beats off to IHG's posts... icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Nov 11, 2010 1:40 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    IHG84 said I do not vote for party, and I do not and will not vote just for gay issues.. I vote for people who have the best ideas in moving the country forward especially in these dangerous times where everything can all go to hell... I'm not thinking about DADT or gay marriage when I vote... There's a lot of people like me out there too.. Gay, straight, and bi.



    This is so true. I get that it rubs many here the wrong way. Sorry -- get over it! They just can't fathom that some of us (probably far more than those of us who are actually vocal about it) think, live, and vote beyond our gayness. I don't think we should have to apologize about it either. We're all entitled to our own priorities based on our own personal values and needs. It's not being selfish either. It's being an individual.

    Regardless, I predict that the next 2 years are going to see some solid gains for the gay movement. I think we will be pleasantly surprised. Republicans are not idiots. They know they need to lighten up on some of the social issues, and I think you will see this start to happen sooner rather than later.

    All good points. An additional point - Having gays within the Republican ranks articulating gay rights issues will have much more of an effect influencing Republican positions than will gays who are allied with the left wing of the Democratic party. To to many here, instead of being upset with us, which has no effect, they should, if open-minded, be supporting us in pursuing the same ultimate goal but coming from a different direction.
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    Nov 11, 2010 1:43 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    rickrick91 said
    n8698u saidIHG and SoCal together again.



    Like famine and pestilence.


    I betcha Socal beats off to IHG's posts... icon_rolleyes.gif


    And you don't?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2010 1:46 PM GMT
    I'm South African and have lost track of what is going on with the DADT debacle.

    President Obama wants to repeal it right? But the Republican Party are blocking it?

    Where do things stand at the moment? Can openly Gay & Lesbian Americans sign up for the US Army?

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    Nov 11, 2010 1:52 PM GMT
    capetownboy said Can openly Gay & Lesbian Americans sign up for the US Army?

    No, the US military is more afraid of a gay service members than al queda..
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    Nov 11, 2010 2:35 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidHaving gays within the Republican ranks articulating gay rights issues will have much more of an effect influencing Republican positions than will gays who are allied with the left wing of the Democratic party. To to many here, instead of being upset with us, which has no effect, they should, if open-minded, be supporting us in pursuing the same ultimate goal but coming from a different direction.



    Exactly!!! Nothing wrong with taking a different approach towards reaching the same goal.
  • turtleneckjoc...

    Posts: 4685

    Nov 11, 2010 2:39 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    socalfitness saidHaving gays within the Republican ranks articulating gay rights issues will have much more of an effect influencing Republican positions than will gays who are allied with the left wing of the Democratic party. To to many here, instead of being upset with us, which has no effect, they should, if open-minded, be supporting us in pursuing the same ultimate goal but coming from a different direction.



    Exactly!!! Nothing wrong with taking a different approach towards reaching the same goal.


    Since the Log Cabin Republicans are so instrumental in pushing for a repeal of DADT, what is their stand on gay marriage?
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    Nov 11, 2010 2:58 PM GMT
    They want gay marriage, Turtleneckjock. I agree with what is being said by CuriousJock, but unfortunately those Republicans that are extremist and in power think of them as 'gays trying to infiltrate the party'.

    -Doug
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    Nov 11, 2010 3:12 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    capetownboy said
    President Obama wants to repeal it right? But the Republican Party are blocking it?




    Not quite as black & white as that.

    1) President Obama does want it repealed, at least that is what he says.

    2) The Obama administration made a misstep by trying to force a vote on DADT just prior to the November elections which was wrapped up in a Military appropriations bill chock full of pork and other wasteful spending that pandered to special interest groups.

    3) The Republican voted against this and it failed. It was seen by Republicans more of a vote of NO for the tactics of the Administration, rather than against DADT, as most Republicans have voiced a united front to not vote on DADT until the Pentagon data is complete.

    4) Through efforts orchestrated by Log Cabin Republicans, a Judge ruled that DADT was unconstitutional, and for 8 days last month openly gays were allowed to enlist in the military.

    5) Then the Obama administration successfully blocked the judges ruling, thereby putting DADT back in effect.

    6) Secretary Gates (formerly of the Bush Administration, but now with the Obama Administration) put into effect an immediate order that no serviceman or woman could be discharged (for being gay) without the review and authority of one of the 4 joint chiefs of the military -- Air Force, Army, Navy, Marines -- and since that order not a single member of the armed forces has been discharged while the debate and efforts to repeal continue, and awaiting the much anticipated data from a PENTAGON questioniare to the members of the military gauging their feedback on "Gays in the Military".

    7) The data results of this Pentagon questionaire is scheduled to be delivered to the congress from the Pentagon on December 1st. Once this is complete, the 4 joint heads of the military will give their recommendations either for, or against, repealing DADT. Secretary Gates has already given his blessing for repeal and, in fact, urged that it be done.

    It appears that after December 1st, the congress will vote once again on DADT. However, should the Obama Administration try once again to wrap the vote within the larger military appropriations bill, there could be resistance by Republicans as Republican Senator McCain has warned that he will lead a Republican led filibuster should the Obama administration once again try that tactic. Should this happen, a vote may not take place until the new congress is sworn in Jan 2011.

    It should be noted that Republicans are not necessarily against the repeal of DADT, especially if the Pentagon data supports it, and the joint chiefs of the military give their blessing. They are, however, demanding that this vote not take place until after December 1st and the data is received.
  • turtleneckjoc...

    Posts: 4685

    Nov 11, 2010 3:16 PM GMT
    meninlove said They want gay marriage, Turtleneckjock. I agree with what is being said by CuriousJock, but unfortunately those Republicans that are extremist and in power think of them as 'gays trying to infiltrate the party'.

    -Doug


    Thanks, Doug! Maybe they can work on the moderates in their party to stifle the radical fringe right and hey......they could help push a Democratic agenda whether they know it or not....