Creationist Lunacy Invades Science Museum.

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    Apr 04, 2008 2:59 PM GMT
    Why lame? She's exactly the kind of person we're discussing here. Given the power, she IS the Taliban, only she'll stab you with a crucifix rather than behead you.
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    Apr 04, 2008 4:05 PM GMT
    I'm still waiting for John to explain which Muslims he's talking about, because all he said was "Muslims" which of course is millions of different people.

    McVeigh was not a Muslim. He was a white, male, US citizen. Maybe John doesn't think white male non-muslims can be terrorists, even after they take down a skyscraper and kill hundreds in the process.

    (yes, in OKC, that's a skyscraper)
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    Apr 04, 2008 7:29 PM GMT
    I have an excellent source, Irshad Manji, the author of "The Trouble with Islam". If you think I'm critical, she's really bad, and she was raised a muslim. She used to be a producer for Q-TV.
    Islam is in a transition, this is evident by the amusing television show, "Melody Arabia". It's interesting to see arabs dressed like George, Michaels, or Cindy Lauper or Madonna doing Pop music videos like 1980s MTV and singing in arabic. These young people are taking a huge risk.

    On the other hand, there are the multitudes who follow
    the Quoran and take it's message of spread the word and kill anyone who doesn't accept the word, to heart.
    I don't have a problem with race, at all. I do hate backwards medieval cultures that threaten western liberal culture though.


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    Apr 04, 2008 7:36 PM GMT
    Then please at least acknowledge the Muslims who are giving the faith a decent name, rather than indicting all Muslims. You may have some compelling things to say, but the way you get absolutist about it all makes you sound crazy (not in the good way). It's the absolutist approach that makes me think your emotions trump your reasoning. Where does it hurt?
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    Apr 04, 2008 7:45 PM GMT
    In defense of my muslim bros please allow me to remind you that W. Bush a self-proclaimed Christian who has helped hundreds of thousands of Iraqis to their graves.

    Please remember, there are good and bad people in all faiths.
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    Apr 04, 2008 8:06 PM GMT
    Jackal69 said; allow me to remind you that W. Bush a self-proclaimed Christian who has helped hundreds of thousands of Iraqis to their graves.

    Is it really hundreds of thousands? It looks to me like the vast majority of Iraqis were helped to their graves by Al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents killing Shias, Shias and the Mahdi Militia killing Sunnis and on occasion, an American killed a Sunni, Shia or Al Qaeda terrorist.

    So why does being a Christian have anything to do with it? President Bush is the leader of a codified secular state. This isn't the crusades.

    Since I brought the crusades up though, islam is behaving somewhat like the Crusaders of medieval times.
    The Crusaders were directed by kings who derrived their authority from a religious leader, the Pope. Just like muslim states do today. It is we of the west who are secular, and advanced now.

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    Apr 04, 2008 8:13 PM GMT
    Bush may have inherited a secular state, but he wants a theocracy. He acts towards this aspiration.
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    Apr 04, 2008 8:15 PM GMT
    For real - dubya gump thinks he has a directive from god. The man is a f*kn lunatic, surpassed in his lunacy only by tricky dick "shoot em in the face" cheney. If dubya gump was poor and told someone he had a directive from god, he'd be in the looney bin like anyone else making such a claim.
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    Apr 04, 2008 8:21 PM GMT
    XRugger, it isn't so bad, you haven't been executed or given 7,000 lashes. The Republicans don't take lesbians out and bury them to their necks and stone them to death.
    President Bush has had to play to his base and unfortunately, part of that base is the Christian Taliban. It's a numbers game, if more people in the LGBT community became Republicans, we'd get a better shake.

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    Apr 04, 2008 8:30 PM GMT
    So whether or not GLBT people get equal rights and fair treatment has to do with party affiliation? The GOP will only look out for you if you play for their team?

    Are you honestly saying that the Evangelical constituency's agenda will take a back seat to ours?
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    Apr 04, 2008 8:31 PM GMT
    "The Republicans don't take lesbians out and bury them to their necks and stone them to death."

    no, they leave that up to the gullible masses who take license from their homophobic rantings. they're cowards.
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    Apr 04, 2008 8:43 PM GMT
    Yes, John43620 it would be hundreds of thousands of casualties. Actually, as many as 654,965 more Iraqis may have died since hostilities began in Iraq in March 2003 than would have been expected under pre-war conditions, according to a survey conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad.

    The deaths from all causes—violent and non-violent—are over and above the estimated 143,000 deaths per year that occurred from all causes prior to the March 2003 invasion.

    So, yes....because our Mighty Bush decided to go into a senseless war, hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost.

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    Apr 04, 2008 9:11 PM GMT
    And you know what? It goes much more negatively than just the human casualties:

    The Cost to Our Forces in Iraq
    3,990: American troops who have died in Iraq since the start of the war. [icasualties.org, 3/17/08]
    29,395: Number of U.S. service members that have been wounded in hostile action since the start of U.S. military operations in Iraq. [AP, 3/11/08]
    60,000: Number of troops that have been subjected to controversial stop-loss measures--meaning those who have completed service commitments but are forbidden to leave the military until their units return from war. [US News and World Report, 2/25/08]
    5: Number of times the 3rd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment has been sent to Iraq. They are the first Marine Corps unit to be sent to Iraq for a fifth time. [San Francisco Chronicle, 2/27/08]
    2,100: Number of troops who tried to commit suicide or injure themselves increased from 350 in 2002 to 2,100 last year. [US News and World Report, 2/25/08]
    11.9: Percent of noncommissioned Army officers who reported mental health problems during their first Iraq tour [Los Angeles Times, 3/7/08]
    27.2: Percent of noncommissioned Army officers who reported mental health problems during their third or fourth Iraq tour [Los Angeles Times, 3/7/08]


    The Cost to Our National Security

    1,188: Number of global terrorist incidents from January - September 11th, 2001. [American Security Project, "Are We Winning?," September 2007]
    5,188: Number of global terrorist incidents in from January- September 11th, 2006. [American Security Project, "Are We Winning?," September 2007]
    30: Percent increase in violence in Afghanistan from 2006 to 2007. [Reuters, 10/15/07]
    21: Number of suicide bombings in Afghanistan in 2001. [Center for American Progress, "The Forgotten Front," 11/07]
    139: Number of suicide bombings in Afghanistan in 2006, with an additional increase of 69 percent as of November 2007. [Center for American Progress, "The Forgotten Front," 11/07]
    30: Percent of Afghanistan controlled by the Afghan Government according to DNI Mike McConnell. [Associated Press, 2/27/08]
    2,380: Days since September 11th, 2001 that Osama Bin Laden has been at-large.

    The Cost of Funding the War in Iraq

    $50-60 Billion: Bush Administration's pre-war estimates of the cost of the war. [New York Times, 12/31/02]
    $12 Billion: Direct cost per month of the Iraq War. [Washington Post, Bilmes and Stiglitz Op-Ed, 3/9/08]
    $526 Billion: Amount of money already appropriated by Congress for the War in Iraq. [CRS, 2/22/08]
    $3 Trillion: Total estimated cost of the Iraq War. [Washington Post, Bilmes and Stiglitz Op-Ed, 3/9/08]
    $5 Trillion - $7 Trillion: Total cost of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan accounting for continued military operations, growing debt and interest payments and continuing health care and counseling costs for veterans. [McClatchy, 2/27/08]
    160: Percent that the cost of the Iraq War has increased from 2004 to 2008. [CRS Report, 2/22/08]

    Just think about what we could have done in our own country with the $5TRILLION being spent in Afghanistan and Iraq!

    How about them apples??!!
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    Apr 06, 2008 5:13 AM GMT
    War is expensive, losing the war is costlier.

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    Apr 06, 2008 8:37 AM GMT
    NNJfitandbi said
    Randall Terry is a better example of a Christian terrorist. There aren't too many others.


    And it's irresponsible -- no, worse than that, it's morally reprehensible to equate the Christian Right with the fringe elements of Islam that terrorize so many people in this world, most of them Muslim.

    http://msnbc.com/modules/clinics/

    What were you saying about a lack of extremist Christian terrorists?
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    Apr 06, 2008 9:18 AM GMT
    I don't know if I should cry, choke, cream these guys for what they're doing.

    It's one thing to reinforce the opinions of older people. However, to go to a museum, selectively choose things to support your cause, consciously ignore other things, and then have the children repeat them to you is ludicrous.

    It's so horrible I hate it with a passion. Rather than showing the children that evolution is one take on the origin of earth, and creation is another take on the origin of earth... and we believe that creation is the right one because of X Y Z because we have faith in the bible; they go in and decide rip science to shreds without even using okay arguments. Saying okay is a compliment because those arguments were so horrible....

    I forgot who said it but, science and spirituality shouldn't be in such dire opposition. If anything it should be working together to bring the world to a better quality of life; One where there is just as much belief in science as there is in spirituality. In reality - science nor sprituality is proveable. Even the basis of basic ideas** show how much we DONT know and how much faith we seriously have just so that we can have personal security.

    But that's a subject for my blog or a new thread, I've already ranted hard enough...

    [**i.e. the origin of life and what is matter really composed of (because there's even smaller materials beyond the nucleus, the proton, and the quark)]
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    Apr 06, 2008 3:35 PM GMT
    blind2limits saidOne where there is just as much belief in science as there is in spirituality. In reality - science nor sprituality is proveable.

    The difference between science and religion is that scientists embrace change and invite people to prove them wrong. Religious people refuse to admit they're wrong no matter the amount of evidence presented.

    And the problem with having your whole belief system rooted in an all-powerful god is that anything can be explained away. The earth is 6,000 years old for instance. Science knows it's billions of years old and the Grand Canyon took tens of millions of years to form.

    But for those who believe in an all-powerful god, He just made it all as it is, instantly. When confronted with the age of the earth, religious people often quote 2 Peter 3:8 and say that to God, a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. So, see, when you're God, 6000 years is the same as tens of billions of years. Dilemma solved.
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    Apr 06, 2008 5:40 PM GMT
    The one aspect that really pisses me off though is the idea of blasphemy. With blasphemy, all rational discussion, and irrational discussion are required to cease. Discussion is not tolerated.
    It's just like "Political Correctness".
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    Apr 07, 2008 8:42 AM GMT
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