will cardio stop me from getting bigger...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 02, 2007 5:05 PM GMT
    So I'm basically under the influence that since I am so skinny and have a high matabalism, that I have to build muscle up first and cannot do cardio right now.

    how true is this? can I and should I do any form of cardio if I want to get bigger muscles?
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2613

    Jul 02, 2007 5:30 PM GMT
    You need to do cardio and weight training.Make sure you`re getting enough calories each day to support your muscle growth,otherwise there`ll be no muscular development.ALso,keep up the protein intake,about 1.5g per kilogram of body weight,and weight train regularly.Best of luck!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 02, 2007 9:38 PM GMT

    When I FIRST started weight training, I was your weight and build, but with LESS definition; so you're already ahead of where I was.

    I would say that you should reduce your cardio sessions to no more than 20-30mins twice a week, if you are looking to put on significant mass. My advice is to follow a 3day program with the following split: Chest/Triceps/Delts



    I suggest doing a M-w-F or T-Thur-Sat
    split. Or switch it up as you need, just make sure you give yourself ample time to REST and recover (that's when growth occurs!)
    Start off doing 7-9 total sets doing 4-8repitions for each set (after doing 2 warm up sets). For the first two months, stick to compound, free weight exercises: Military Press, Bench Press, Bent Rows, Squats, DeadLifts, Curls, Close Grip Bench Press. Your Squats and DeadLifts are going to REALLY help you put on size. If you find yourself getting a little "soft" as you put on mass, try putting 15-20 mins of moderate cardio at the END of your weight training sessions.

    Remember to EAT CLEAN and EAT BIG
    (Linc is on the money with the protein amount). And don't neglect your complex carb intake (oatmeal, rice, non-fried potatoes).

    Keep us posted on your progress!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 02, 2007 10:01 PM GMT
    Yup, what he says is correct. Limit your cardio. Don't cut it out completely. Great time to do it is first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. You'll be pulling your stored fat for energy, plus the metabolism boost lasts for a good portion of the day.

    And after you weight train is a good time too, since you glycogen reserves have been used up for energy, forcing your body to pull from stored fat.

    Don't go at it too strenuous, light to medium intensity.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 02, 2007 10:44 PM GMT
    20-30 minutes of cardio, twice a week is what my trainer recommends for me.
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2613

    Jul 03, 2007 1:05 AM GMT
    Th other guys are right about the cardio,go steady on that,maybe two thirty minute sessions a week{depending on how cardio fit you are} at most.You look pretty slim anyway,with not much spare fat,and reasonable muscle definition now,so you should have a good muscled look fairly soon.Best wishes.
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    Jul 03, 2007 10:51 AM GMT
    All cardio is not created equal... for you, 25 minutes at LOW INTENSITY 2-3 times per week should be fine.

    As for the empty stomach thing - that's hotly debated in the bodybuilding community, and there are studies to support both fasted and non-fasted cardio for fat loss - but fat loss is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

    You need cardio just for general health. So I'd do 10 minutes for a warmup before your workouts, and 25 minutes after your workout to finish up. That's it.

    Assuming your working out 3x per week, you're done.

    On your off days, I suspect you're fairly active anyway - get whatever rest you can.

    - Joey
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 03, 2007 5:07 PM GMT
    Thanks so much. You guys are so great.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 06, 2007 9:04 PM GMT
    Think, on your own, for just a minute here. I'm not trying to sound demeaning, but here's how it works.

    If you eat an overage of calories, you WILL get bigger.

    If you eat an underage of calories, you WILL get smaller.

    It's EXACTLY as it seems it would be..DUH.

    Hypertrophy (muscle size) is a function of local muscular endurance. I.e., the muscle is able to generate power under an ONGOING load. The muscle is routinely engorged and eventually expands.

    Hyperplasia (additional muscle cells) is muscle splitting and you usually need growth hormone to get hyperplasia.

    Strength is a function of the muscles ability to generate power in SHORT bursts.

    So, if you want to get bigger, you need to effect local muscular endurance, AND...have an abundance of calories, some genes, some smarts, and an anabolic environment. It's that simple.

    When I train for a contest...I create an underage of calories, but, in as an anabolic environment as I can create. I eat upwards of 300 to 400 grams of protein, and...do 45 minutes of cardio interval training (high level stairs in 3-7 minute intervals with my heart rate at close to 160 to 170 with 45 seconds to 5 minute rest periods) to burn off the fat, twice a day. I.e. I do cardio, lift, do cardio, every day, and eat like a pig, but of good food. Somedays, I'll do 11 meals.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 06, 2007 9:06 PM GMT

    cardio will increase your vascularization / capilarization. That will HELP you to gain larger muscles. Cardio will also strengthen your cardiovascular system so that you can train harder. Cardio will also burn off fat like crazy. Any serious training person will do cardio a minimum of three times a week.

    Interval training is particularly effective at fat burn. Doing endless hours of cardio is pointless, boring and stupid. Remember: don't train like a moron.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 08, 2007 9:00 AM GMT
    i play aussie rules football, and i usually run about 15-20kms a game. before the season, i weighed about 78kgs and now (in the middle of season) im 73kgs. i still go to gym, obviously not as intense, but nowhere near the intensity of the off season

    so yeah cardio does slow u down, but dont stop it completely!!

    ps. dont over do it, cause i got glandular fever and chronic fatigue last year, that was a killer!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 08, 2007 1:16 PM GMT
    But if he is skinny an already high metabolism should he being doing it at all? I was thinner than him when I started lifting weights an I stayed far away from cardio an I gained 45 lbs in less than a year (an yes my stomach is still flat)
    Just be sure to eat healthy food a lot morning till night an weight gaining bars or shakes help too. I like ABB xxl bars an shakes. The ideal diet is to eat every 3hrs its a lot of work but its worth it. An Try to get a lot of sleep as well
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2613

    Jul 08, 2007 2:51 PM GMT
    Cardio training will burn any excess fat you have,and boost your metabolism,so at the very least it helps with muscle definition.I`ve found this personally with running alone.As long as you get enough calories every day to help muscle growth,you should be okay.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 10, 2007 11:01 PM GMT
    Had to reply to ChuckyStud's post. Chuck has obviously created an exceptional physique for himself. However, he's also been lifting for at LEAST a decade, and has conditioned his body throughout the process of its muscle maturity.

    Dude, you're 17...don't make the mistake of thinking you are going to gain "80lbs of muscle" this year and look like an IFBB pro. Give yourself
    (and your BOD) time to slowly make gains so that you don't feel CHRONIC PAIN by the time you reach my age (or Chuck's).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 15, 2007 5:31 AM GMT
    I think there are some confusions concerning how muscle fibers uses energy here...

    Chuckystud is right with training tips, but here are some corrections concerning muscle fibers and energy pathway...

    Muscle fiber hypertrophy is not exactly a fucntion of local muscle endurance, but rather function of local muscle strength.

    Endurance is defined as the duration of muscle fiber to produce contractions. So what gives muscle endurance..? Lets look at how energy is produced (time to dust your basic colleg bio text books...)

    There is the slower but more efficient AEROBIC form of energy via the Kreb Cycle, and there is the less efficient but more powerful, short burst ANAEROBIC form of energy.

    Fast twitch muscle fibers, the ones responsible for strength and adapts to increased resistive training by hypertrophy, uses glycogen (sugar) locally stored in the muscle fibers and also from the liver with creatine phosphate to create anaerobic energy. glycogen is fisrt borken down via the process of glycolysis into pyruvate, then via anaerobic process energy and waste/byproduct of lactic acid (I am not going into any details of this pathway, one who wish can review their textbooks.)

    So fast twitch fibers begin to adapt to weight training (when performed properly) with increased creatine phosphate and glycogen stored in the muscle fibers. This makes it strong and fast, but does not increase local muscle endurance.

    Slow twitch bifers, on the other hand, generate energy with the Kreb Cycle process, which is AEROBIC, so oxygen is vital. It stars with the same pyruvate but then with the addition of NAD+, turns into acetyl CoA, and the rest of the Kreb Cycle is intiated. It can also use some left over lactic acid from anaerobic process to make more energy...

    So, slow tweich fibers, under proper training, can actually produce increased number of myoglobins stored in the muscle. Myoglobin is simililar to our blood's hemoglobin, which it stores oxygen. Now, this is a fucntionof local muscle endurance...

    That is the reason why creatine monhydrate can increase training fast twtich fibers for hypertrophy and size, as it provides a source of creatine phosphate locally inthe muslce fibers for making ATP (ATP when broken down to ADP produces energy) for anaerobic respiration.

    This is also why you see chickens, which can only violently flap their wings but not long enough to fly, has huge breasts but its all white meat, as it has no myoglobin but mostly glycogen and creatine phosphate. While long distance flying birds have actually smaller breasts, but its very dark in color as there are more myoglobins stored in the tissues. The same can be said for deep sea diving mamals like dophines and seals, ever wonder thier flesh is dark and red? Myoglobin..so they do not even need to breath as much as there is local oxyen support inthe muslce tissues.

    Also, studies have shown that muscle hyperplasia does increase with GH, but only during puperty... I think testoosterone actually have an effect of hyperplesia, but also only before one matures into adulthood (that I am not totally certain.) Aduts with GH supplimentation only increase cell counts of other soft tissue such as the one in the viceral organs. GH does not even promote bone growth for adults as the epiphyseal plates of bones are already sealed in an adult... You just get more bone growth at areas where these plates are not sealed in adults such as your jaws and brows... Also studies have shown excess sex hormones during puberty can speed up the sealing of bone epiphseal plates, making one's height growth stunted..

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 16, 2007 2:21 AM GMT
    There are different views on premature closure of bone plates, but, you did do a nice job explaining hypertrophy.

    There's lots of compelling evidence that high GH does cause hyperplasia, even in adults. High androgens are generally considered to cause hypertrophy, but, you're the study.

    Look at the hugest of the huge, and they'll tell you they are taking 10 iu to 15 iu of GH daily.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 16, 2007 10:25 PM GMT
    Endocrinology is not my field, so I am only repeating what I have read in medical textbooks and research studies. Sure, these studies can be flawed, and possibly not conclusive or even current, but I tend to trust them more than what one can read from some bodybuilding magazines..

    To assume GH is responsible for huge body builders having their statures simply by what they take or their looks can be misleading... These bodybuilders are taking so many things for so long, and that includes all sorts of things like IGF1, IGF2, insulin, etc, that to contribute one substance or a common dosage is not exactly a controlled study... Sure it could be the GH, but this is only an assumption, and an assumption not based on controlled, measurable, repeatable, and objective facts.

    Again, I am not an endocrinologist... What I know is the scientific process and research methodolgies..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 18, 2007 2:32 AM GMT
    Men's Health... Well, hate to say this, but as reliable as People's magazine...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 18, 2007 6:11 AM GMT
    will cardio stop you getting big depends on your calorie intake its quite simple really.

    Running burns calories
    Excess calories are required to create growth

    So as long as you allow for the burnt calories in your intake so that you still have the surplus you require then there is no reason it should affect growth.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 20, 2007 4:18 AM GMT
    Cardio wont make you lose muscle if you do it right. Interval and/or sprint training are good ways to burn fat and maintain muscle mass. Keep cardio sessions between 30-45 minutes and avoid endurance type cardio like long runs.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 20, 2007 4:46 AM GMT
    "Men's Health... Well, hate to say this, but as reliable as People's magazine..."

    But the cover models look so good!
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    Jul 21, 2007 10:59 PM GMT
    Great thread with lots of useful info for me.

    I am just like the opening poster - skinny with high matabalism - and I'd like to gain weight/muscles but it's so hard for me. I have weigh 63-64 kilos (138 lbs) for the last 2-3 yrs. Doesn't go up or down.
    But I did do way more cardio than 20-30 mins twice a week. I have to make it less cardio. That will be my first step.

    If you guys have more tips - feel free to write it!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 03, 2007 2:24 PM GMT
    I would like to add the following information concerning calories...

    When you do cardio, you burn calories, but where the calories are coming from can be played with...

    If you do cardio before you do weights, you may see the treadmill telling you that you have burned so many calories, not a lie...

    BUT, you may not have burned many calories from FAT.., but mostly from sugar...

    THAT is the reason why doing cardio AFTER your glycogen reserve is low is more effective at loosing body fat reserve. This is most efficient by doing cardio after an intensive resistive training, when your body has no choice but to tap into fat and protein reserves for caloric needs...

    Too intense and prolonged cardio after your glycogen reserve is low will rob more of your protien reserve for caloric needs.

    If you doubt this, just buy some urin strips, and do your work outs with cardio first then try the recommended way. Check your urine for keytones. Keytones are by products of fat metabolism. If you burned alot of calories, but your body is not going into keytosis, you are not buring fat!

    HOWEVER, this does NOT to say, if you are overwieght, that buring even calories from suger reserve is not helpful... Because any excess calories, from sugar, fat, or protien, will be stored in your body as either sugar or fat. Protein is not really "storable" but can only be "synthsized", such as bulding yor muscles...
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13999

    Aug 03, 2007 3:57 PM GMT
    If I can suggest, consider trying to do some cardio that will also help with strength and flexibility, like kick-boxing.
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    Aug 03, 2007 4:32 PM GMT
    Just becareful with kickboxing... There are so many vriants, like yoga, some forms are questionable. We get a lot of ankle injuries and sometiems fractures from people who kick box...(well nothing beats snow boarders..they keep us in business!)