Barebacking...

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    Sep 16, 2014 9:38 AM GMT
    Going raw is awesome, but it needs to be planned and prepped.

    When i was on the "dating" scene, all hookups were kept covered. If things went beyond the hookup, and barebacking was mentioned, testing needed to be done. Fresh. A nasty folded up paper from his wallet dated 3 years ago was not proof enough. Mandatory test that week.

    Some didn't want it bad enough and we kept it covered, or we fizzled out.

    One in particular got his test, and i got mine, and we're still together.

    Std free + monogamy = barebacking all the time.
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    Sep 16, 2014 10:05 AM GMT
    JonSpringon saidGoing raw is awesome, but it needs to be planned and prepped.

    When i was on the "dating" scene, all hookups were kept covered. If things went beyond the hookup, and barebacking was mentioned, testing needed to be done. Fresh. A nasty folded up paper from his wallet dated 3 years ago was not proof enough. Mandatory test that week.

    Some didn't want it bad enough and we kept it covered, or we fizzled out.

    One in particular got his test, and i got mine, and we're still together.

    Std free + monogamy = barebacking all the time.


    +1
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    Sep 17, 2014 8:03 PM GMT
    JonSpringon saidGoing raw is awesome, but it needs to be planned and prepped.

    When i was on the "dating" scene, all hookups were kept covered. If things went beyond the hookup, and barebacking was mentioned, testing needed to be done. Fresh. A nasty folded up paper from his wallet dated 3 years ago was not proof enough. Mandatory test that week.

    Some didn't want it bad enough and we kept it covered, or we fizzled out.

    One in particular got his test, and i got mine, and we're still together.

    Std free + monogamy = barebacking all the time.



    Good Answer....couldn't say it better myself icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 18, 2014 3:38 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    Wyndahoi saidThe reality is that when it comes to sex people don't make rational, logical decisions. Which is why education alone doesn't work. It helps. Condoms help. But the reality is, sex is an animal drive that is not necessarily something that all of us can control and use responsibility all of the time. Blaming people who occasionally make a poor decision sheen it comes to their sex life is like blaming someone who eats an occasional donut.
    Add in the fact that decisions surrounding sex are often made while under the influence of various chemicals and it increases the chances if poor decisions with bad consequences. We can either deal with the world and make policies based in how it is (people often make irrational decisions that put their health at risk) or we can live in a fantasy world where people only make good decisions.
    The latter leads to slut shaming and an unending pandemic. Using all tools to end HIV (testing, education, condoms AND Truvada) is the best decision.


    THIS. And remembering that none of the above tools are foolproof.


    TRUVADA??? This is INSANE... First read this and then let me tell you what they are trying to convince you of:

    Dr. Henry: "For patients with normal renal function doing well in Truvada, the rate of development of serious renal problems from Truvada is low overall (averaging < 2-3% year)and is usually monitored every 6-12 month with lab tests. KH"

    http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SideEffects/Q213274.html?ic=2003

    Now think about this because I am one of many now with chronic kidney disease because of Truvada... They are trying to say this percentage is a low number but what they ARE not telling you is that MOST people have been on Truvada and with that percentage over a 20 year period of those taking Truvada 40 percent at least will have chronic kidney disease.

    They tell you the annual number but fail to tell you the overall number of the ones have been taking it all these years.
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    Sep 18, 2014 10:23 AM GMT
    Jerred-

    I'm sorry you have HIV and chronic kidney disease.
    What stage is your CKD? Because that diagnosis covers a wide range from no big deal to you need a transplant. The reality is though your experience with Truvada is not comparable to someone on PrEP. HIV alone can damage the kidneys and since you were being treated for HIV you already had you were taking other medications that may have potentiated the harm Truvada did to your kidneys.
    Someone on PrEP is taking Truvada alone. They're being screened for harm to their kidneys. If there are any signs of kidney damage the medication would be stopped.
    Also, no one has been on or is going to be on PrEP for 20 years. It is something that people can start and stop as needed.
    There are no freebies in medicine. There is risk with every medication you take. But for some people the risk of taking Truvada is MUCH lower than having high risk sex without it.
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    Sep 18, 2014 7:57 PM GMT
    Wyndahoi saidJerred-

    I'm sorry you have HIV and chronic kidney disease.
    What stage is your CKD? Because that diagnosis covers a wide range from no big deal to you need a transplant. The reality is though your experience with Truvada is not comparable to someone on PrEP. HIV alone can damage the kidneys and since you were being treated for HIV you already had you were taking other medications that may have potentiated the harm Truvada did to your kidneys.
    Someone on PrEP is taking Truvada alone. They're being screened for harm to their kidneys. If there are any signs of kidney damage the medication would be stopped.
    Also, no one has been on or is going to be on PrEP for 20 years. It is something that people can start and stop as needed.
    There are no freebies in medicine. There is risk with every medication you take. But for some people the risk of taking Truvada is MUCH lower than having high risk sex without it.


    Everybody is crazy but him. That should tell you something.
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    Sep 18, 2014 11:40 PM GMT
    Read these two quotes from this study on the dangerous drug in Truvada:

    "In their analysis of comprehensive VA electronic health records, the study authors found that for each year of exposure to tenofovir, risk of protein in urine – a marker of kidney damage – rose 34 percent, risk of rapid decline in kidney function rose 11 percent and risk of developing chronic kidney disease (CKD) rose 33 percent." Tenofovir is one of the chemicals in Truvada.

    "To be sure that tenofovir was the culprit, Scherzer and her colleagues looked for associations between 18 other antiretroviral medications and the same three measures of kidney disease: protein in urine, rapid decline in function and progression to CKD. None were associated with higher risk."


    http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2012/02/11508/tenofovir-leading-hiv-medication-linked-risk-kidney-damage
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    Sep 19, 2014 4:13 AM GMT
    Did you miss this?



    "Shlipak noted that HIV, itself, increases the risk of kidney damage, while modern antiretroviral treatments clearly reduce that overall risk. “Patients need to be aware of their kidney disease risks before they start therapy, and this should influence the medications that they choose in consultation with their doctor,” he said. “For an otherwise healthy patient, the benefits of tenofovir are likely to exceed the risks, but for a patient with a combination of risk factors for kidney disease, tenofovir may not be the right medication.”
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    Sep 19, 2014 1:24 PM GMT
    timmm55,

    They have quite often tried to blame HIV for causing diseases such as dementia, etc. But never once do they explain how the virus does this BECAUSE IT DOES NOT. The virus is capable of only one thing and that is attack the immune system. It does not harm just any cell in the body. Around the time they started saying it causes kidney disease was after Truvada came out. They claim thirty percent of HIV positive patients have it now but the Truth is because they give Truvada out to all of them. And as the article also says, it is known the other drugs besides Truvada do not cause this.
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    Sep 19, 2014 6:12 PM GMT
    Jerred saidtimmm55,

    They have quite often tried to blame HIV for causing diseases such as dementia, etc. But never once do they explain how the virus does this BECAUSE IT DOES NOT. The virus is capable of only one thing and that is attack the immune system. It does not harm just any cell in the body. Around the time they started saying it causes kidney disease was after Truvada came out. They claim thirty percent of HIV positive patients have it now but the Truth is because they give Truvada out to all of them. And as the article also says, it is known the other drugs besides Truvada do not cause this.


    I quoted from your own link.

    Now find a link to substantiate your 20% claim. If you want to talk TRUTH, not just your truth/opinion, you need to provide evidence.
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    Sep 19, 2014 6:33 PM GMT
    Timm55,

    I provided evidence from the largest study done on this where they distinctly say from VA record research that the rise in risk of chronic kidney disease is 33 percent when taking Truvada. I also explained how Truvada is trying to twist the truth by BARELY admitting to doctors the annual statistics but leaving out the accumulative statistics because they know it would show at least 20 percent are coming down with kidney disease. I also provided proof in the same large scale study that other HIV meds do not have these effects and they tested 18 of them.
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    Sep 19, 2014 9:47 PM GMT
    Jerred saidTimm55,

    I provided evidence from the largest study done on this where they distinctly say from VA record research that the rise in risk of chronic kidney disease is 33 percent when taking Truvada. I also explained how Truvada is trying to twist the truth by BARELY admitting to doctors the annual statistics but leaving out the accumulative statistics because they know it would show at least 20 percent are coming down with kidney disease. I also provided proof in the same large scale study that other HIV meds do not have these effects and they tested 18 of them.


    No you DID NOT. You provided a link that said <2-3%.
    You say "would show"... find one that DOES show. This is your Truth?

    If I missed it repost please.
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    Sep 19, 2014 9:53 PM GMT


    According to the study authors, Viread’s role in causing kidney disease is still controversial, as not all studies have found evidence that Viread causes kidney damage. The authors hypothesized that this discrepancy may be due to varying patient populations (for example, patients with more or less pre-existing kidney damage) or other factors.

    In this study, the researchers set out to definitively determine whether Viread use over time is associated with kidney damage. The study included 10,841 HIV-positive United States veterans who started antiretroviral therapy for the first time between 1997 and 2007.

    The average participant age was 46 years old. Almost all participants (98 percent) were male and just under half (49 percent) were African-American.

    Researchers measured participants’ kidney function and HIV-related outcomes, such as viral loads (amount of HIV in the blood) and CD4 (white blood cell) counts. They also measured their blood pressure and blood glucose levels, since high blood pressure and diabetes can also lead to kidney damage.

    Results showed that each year of Viread use was associated with a 30 percent higher risk of having abnormally high levels of protein in the urine, a sign of kidney damage. In addition, each year of Viread use increased the risk of a rapid decline in kidney function by 11 percent and increased the risk for chronic kidney disease by 33 percent.
    [url]http://www.aidsbeacon.com/news/2012/02/15/viread-is-associated-with-long-term-irreversible-kidney-damage-hiv-aids/
    [/url]
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    Sep 19, 2014 10:21 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Jerred saidTimm55,

    I provided evidence from the largest study done on this where they distinctly say from VA record research that the rise in risk of chronic kidney disease is 33 percent when taking Truvada. I also explained how Truvada is trying to twist the truth by BARELY admitting to doctors the annual statistics but leaving out the accumulative statistics because they know it would show at least 20 percent are coming down with kidney disease. I also provided proof in the same large scale study that other HIV meds do not have these effects and they tested 18 of them.


    No you DID NOT. You provided a link that said <2-3%.
    You say "would show"... find one that DOES show. This is your Truth?

    If I missed it repost please.


    No I provided the link that you got your information on in the last post you just made also. I provided the 2-3 percent link to show how doctors are being manipulated.
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    Sep 19, 2014 10:26 PM GMT
    Viread use increased the risk of a rapid decline in kidney function by 11 percent and increased the risk for chronic kidney disease by 33 percent.

    You know that's 11% and 33% of <2-3%?
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    Sep 19, 2014 10:52 PM GMT
    timmm55 saidViread use increased the risk of a rapid decline in kidney function by 11 percent and increased the risk for chronic kidney disease by 33 percent.

    You know that's 11% and 33% of <2-3%?


    Do you know what the statistics are right now for HIV people with Chronic Kidney Disease is RIGHT NOW thirty percent. Truvada has been given out to just about every one of them. They are trying to say it is the HIV that causes it but that is so far from true. HIV affects ONE THING ONLY... Your Tcells. Why all the kidney disease? Because of the chemicals in Truvada.
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    Sep 19, 2014 11:01 PM GMT
    Jerred said
    timmm55 saidViread use increased the risk of a rapid decline in kidney function by 11 percent and increased the risk for chronic kidney disease by 33 percent.

    You know that's 11% and 33% of <2-3%?


    Do you know what the statistics are right now for HIV people with Chronic Kidney Disease is RIGHT NOW thirty percent. Truvada has been given out to just about every one of them. They are trying to say it is the HIV that causes it but that is so far from true. HIV affects ONE THING ONLY... Your Tcells. Why all the kidney disease? Because of the chemicals in Truvada.


    You are telling what you think statistics are, but NO proof.
    For the last time find a link to your 30% assertion.

    What do you think happens when HIV affects your T-cells? From 1000, down to 400, down to 50? Under 100 things start happening! Not good things either. Kidney issues is only one of them. That's why people need to get tested and on treatment early!
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    Sep 19, 2014 11:07 PM GMT
    Timmm55 your skepticism of me is disgusting... HERE LOOK AT THE PROOF IN MY BELOW LINK AND IF YOU WANT DO A SEARCH ON IT AND YOU WILL FIND DOZENS OF ARTICLES ON THE PERCENTAGE I JUST GAVE. And ALSO if you look at how they EVEN admit here that kidney disease caused by HIV is UNCOMMON. THEY FLAT OUT POINT AT THE MEDICATION... HERE IT IS... THIRTY FUCKING PERCENT. So applause to you and MuchMoreThanMuscle for your interest in bareback sex at the cost of lives down the road. It is clearly obvious where your minds are at.

    http://www.aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/staying-healthy-with-hiv-aids/potential-related-health-problems/kidney-disease/
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    Sep 20, 2014 12:36 AM GMT
    Jerred saidTimmm55 your skepticism of me is disgusting... HERE LOOK AT THE PROOF IN MY BELOW LINK AND IF YOU WANT DO A SEARCH ON IT AND YOU WILL FIND DOZENS OF ARTICLES ON THE PERCENTAGE I JUST GAVE. And ALSO if you look at how they EVEN admit here that kidney disease caused by HIV is UNCOMMON. THEY FLAT OUT POINT AT THE MEDICATION... HERE IT IS... THIRTY FUCKING PERCENT. So applause to you and MuchMoreThanMuscle for your interest in bareback sex at the cost of lives down the road. It is clearly obvious where your minds are at.

    http://www.aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/staying-healthy-with-hiv-aids/potential-related-health-problems/kidney-disease/


    My skepticism is disgusting? Of you? What are fucking GOD? LOL I'm skeptical of everybody and everything!

    TasP saves lives. Read the CDC release. Your hand wringing is getting old.

    HIV Treatment and KIDNEY DISEASE

    "Thanks to scientific advances in effective ART, people with HIV are living longer. But as people with HIV live longer, kidney problems may increase. While widespread access to and earlier initiation of ART has led to a decrease in HIVAN, other causes of kidney disease persist and, in some cases, are on the rise.

    For example, in the U.S., people who are infected with HIV are three times more likely to develop hypertension (high blood pressure) and are four times more likely to develop diabetes than uninfected individuals. Both hypertension and diabetes are common causes of end-stage renal disease.

    In addition, about 25% of people living with HIV in the United States are co-infected with hepatitis C virus (HCV), an inflammation of the liver that causes a chronic infection. HCV is associated with several types of kidney disease.

    People living with HIV can also develop kidney disease caused by side effects of medication, including some antiretroviral (ARV) medications, as noted above.

    For these reasons, it is very important to work closely with your healthcare provider to monitor your HIV treatment and ensure your kidneys stay healthy."

    So with viral suppression (Truvada...TasP, which you call " causing the cost of lives down the road"....it reduces kidney damage.

    Ironic eh?




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    Sep 20, 2014 12:54 AM GMT
    timmm55,

    I just have to let this go. I just happened to be the two to three percent and am somewhat angry about it. I'm just going to lay down and find a happy place in my mind to deal with this now.
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    Sep 20, 2014 3:48 AM GMT
    JonSpringon saidGoing raw is awesome, but it needs to be planned and prepped.

    When i was on the "dating" scene, all hookups were kept covered. If things went beyond the hookup, and barebacking was mentioned, testing needed to be done. Fresh. A nasty folded up paper from his wallet dated 3 years ago was not proof enough. Mandatory test that week.

    Some didn't want it bad enough and we kept it covered, or we fizzled out.

    One in particular got his test, and i got mine, and we're still together.

    Std free + monogamy = barebacking all the time.



    Exactly the way we feel about it too.
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    Sep 20, 2014 6:11 PM GMT
    On the subject of low viral loads due to medication making it 97 percent safe to have bareback sex is BULLSHIT also... Here's the proof. I knew this already myself. The meds to not affect the semen. Semen is where the virus hides. Again, you are following the WRONG scientific data. Read this from a reputable source:

    http://www.thebodypro.com/content/68538/hiv-can-be-found-in-semen-even-when-viral-load-is-.html
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    Sep 20, 2014 6:20 PM GMT
    People preaching that these drugs that make you HIV undetectable is the answer to barebacking with HIV icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Sep 20, 2014 6:43 PM GMT
    Jerred saidOn the subject of low viral loads due to medication making it 97 percent safe to have bareback sex is BULLSHIT also... Here's the proof. I knew this already myself. The meds to not affect the semen. Semen is where the virus hides. Again, you are following the WRONG scientific data. Read this from a reputable source:

    http://www.thebodypro.com/content/68538/hiv-can-be-found-in-semen-even-when-viral-load-is-.html


    Somewhat true.

    From your link, semen was undetectable in MOST. Note that 93.4% had undetectable semen also. Even at 115 copies, in blood there it is low.
    "Twenty of 304 men (6.6%) with an undetectable viral load in blood (HIV RNA below 40 copies per milliliter) had a detectable viral load in semen. In these 20 men, viral loads in semen ranged from a low of 115 copies per milliliter of semen to a high of 1750 copies per milliliter. All of these men were taking three or four antiretrovirals including either a protease inhibitor, a nonnucleoside reverse transcriptase inhibitor, or the integrase inhibitor Isentress (raltegravir)."
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    Sep 20, 2014 6:52 PM GMT
    THE IMPORTANT PART of the article suggests to use condoms because when HIV patients go to doctors they don't test your semen, they test your blood. Please understand I am not trying to play doctor, I am trying to use my conscience with what I have experienced and learned. I don't want any kid to suffer what I have and BELIEVE me I have suffered tremendously. It was proven about 2008 that even with a good tcell count, HIV patients were coming down with all forms of cancer. I know that as I was one of them and met them all around me with lymphoma, lung cancer, etc. AIDS Services Foundation admitted this to me. A doctor came into my room and referenced a past visit I had to the emergency room around the time I caught HIV in which my right testical had swelled up. He told me my cancer was HIV related before the surgery and year fight to rid myself of advanced stage cancer. The final surgery they had to do after months of chemotherapy was a traumatic surgery. I lost my job over it. It was an eight hour surgery in which they dumped all my intestines out in order to go in and remove the cancer.