Split v All-body

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 08, 2007 10:50 PM GMT
    Hey Guys -

    Ive been working out for a couple of years now and made some progress but still far away from where I wanna get. Basically, Id like to achieve a "cover model" body: big arms, abs, chest, lats, legs etc and lean muscle. You can see from my pics where I am.

    I train 5 times per week and have a personal trainer for 2 of them. He prefers split routine so I tend to do:

    Arms / Abs

    Each on separate days.

    I have not done cardio for a while as was worried this would burn muscle gains.

    My diet is:

    Wake up: shake
    Breakfast: 2 eggs, bagel, peanut butter
    Snack: nuts
    Lunch: 2 chicken breasts and salad. Yogurt
    Snack: Fruit
    Supper: Chicken and something

    I also take a shake after working out at lunchtime or in the evening.

    How does this look?
    Do you think splits work or all-body is better?
    Any suggestions to my routine?
    Should I do cardio?
    Any suggestions to my diet?

    Thanks guys.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 09, 2007 12:07 AM GMT
    Your development is genetic. If you have truly been working at optimal efficiency over the past two years then you should be at around 90% of your genetic potential (with out using steroids).

    personal trainer
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2613

    Jul 09, 2007 12:45 AM GMT
    Alex,I`d recommend you do some cardio workouts in the week,maybe up to two thirty minutes sessions.This will mainly help with muscle definiton as it burns fat.(You probably know all this!)As regards your diet,I`d say you need to eat 1.5g of protein per kilogram of body weight per day ie an 80kg man needs 120g of protein per day.Perhaps you could do with more variety in your diet,but it seems on the right lines.The shakes are a good idea.Make sure you have plenty of calories in your diet,otherwise your muscle gain will be threatened.As you`re working in a gym with a trainer,you`ll have a good environment to make gains,but as mitchster says,if you`re naturally ectomorphic,there will be limits on what you can achieve.Anyway,best wishes and good luck!
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    Jul 09, 2007 3:12 AM GMT
    If the split seems to be working then stick with it. How people choose to set up their workout routines varies from person to person. Over a year I went from lifting 6 days a week with basically no cardio, to 6 days a week with 3 days of cardio, 4 days of lifting with 4-5 days of cardio, etc. It's hard for me personally to stick with one routine because I'm trying to shape my body back and forth. I wanted to gain weight, then lose some, then I gained some muscle back and now I'm trying to cut/sculpt.

    Diet wise... Just a quick guess but that's probably around 1400 calories your taking in throughout your day, and you probably should be taking some more in. Multiply body weight by 12, 14 or 16, depending on your metabolism (12 for lower, etc...). Just as a guideline. Then go off that and see how it works. And if you like fish, try getting a big load of tuna, miracle whip and celery. Eat a can of tuna (normally 2.5 servings: 32g protein, 2.5 g fat, 150 calories) once or twice a day. Low cal and great for protein.
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    Jul 09, 2007 6:15 AM GMT
    Thanks guys.

    From the posts I take a few improvements:
    - Do some more cardio (1-2 sessions of 30 mins) to reduce bf
    - take in c. 120 kg of protein. How much is this in simple terms? More than two shakes and 4 chicken breasts per day? Plus nuts?
    - lifter_boy: when you say body weight, do you mean in lbs? I think Im 160 lbs, so that would be 2210 calories. How did you guess I was taking 1200? Seems like a lot of food to me! Sadly, I hate canned tuna!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 09, 2007 6:53 AM GMT
    Your diet actually looks pretty low in carbs. But if you don't feel low-energy throughout the day then I guess there's no reason you ought to eat more carbs.

    I'm with you on the canned tuna. Yecch. Too much tuna noodle casserole growing up. But it doesn't look like you're not getting enough protein. 2 eggs and 3 chicken breasts is like 120g protein. I've always read that bodybuilders should eat 1.5g protein or so daily per kg body weight, which would be 140g of protein, which you are almost certainly getting when you add the nuts and yogurt and the random incomplete proteins from all the other food. Oh, and a shake on most days? Seems to me you're getting plenty of protein.

    That said, protein tends not to be very calorie-dense. If you ate nothing but chicken breasts, just to get 1400 calories a day (which is very little) you'd have to eat ten of them and that'd be over 200g of protein. Even eggs, which have some fat, only have something like 70 calories apiece. Nuts have more since they have more fat in them. But most of the foods you list are not very high in calories. The bagel's probably the highest-calorie thing on there.

    It sure doesn't look like body fat is a problem for you, so maybe you could try adding more complex carbs to your diet, whole grains and whatnot, and see what difference that makes? If you're eating fewer calories every day than you burn, then you'll lose weight, and if you don't have much fat left to lose (as it appears you don't) then your body will burn some muscle along with it for energy. So it could be that you just need to put more energy into your body to keep the muscle on? It's worth a shot, anyway. If it doesn't help, you can always cut it back out.
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2613

    Jul 09, 2007 2:49 PM GMT
    Alex,if you`re 160lbs,then you`re about 71kgs,so you need about 106g of protein a day,not 120kgs!LOL.As regards portion size,you`ll have to read some food labels to get an idea of the protein content(it`s usually in g per 100g of the food,or the total amount in that serving),then work your own needs.Many good fitness books will have lists of servings and what that means in terms of protein,and there`s bound to be a website with the same info.At 25,doing that amount of training,at 160lbs,I think you`ll need more than 1400 calories a day;more like what lifterboy suggests.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 09, 2007 3:24 PM GMT
    I think you have the right approach (and for what it's worth, you look closer to your goal than you sound ;-) )... Contrary to popular belief it really does take years of work to approach your theoretical potential, and part of that is being truly tenacious, patient, and consistent.

    I know a few people who swear by full body workouts, but for my own metabolism, they would be useless. I would be toned, but I was NEVER able to get above 180lbs with such a routine. (And I have a theory that the only people for whom they work well are those who already have STELLAR genetics in the first place).

    Also, regarding diet... I find that I need to minimize my intake of shakes. A shake a day might as well be a Big Mac... For some reason most major brands of shakes have either bloated me or made it hard to be lean. I can eat pasta nearly as much as I want and stay reasonably lean... But a shake a day makes that very difficult.

    A lot of your progress may well come from trial and error. We all have different metabolisms, and your body may react to a specific routine (exercise and dietary) very differently from someone else's.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 09, 2007 5:57 PM GMT
    You look great Walsh- keep up the good carbs!! Mike
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    Jul 13, 2007 2:34 PM GMT
    bro, you look great. my experience has been work hard and in time it will come to you. patience and consistency has been the key. id also say more protein in your diet like most have suggested. doing cardio in the morning has really worked for me as well. ultimately it does come down to genetics though... just keep up the good work.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 18, 2007 4:57 PM GMT
    Hey there, little boy. You're doing an excellent job of being consistent and working hard. It's not easy, I know. It's hard for me to gain muscle too. You know, any good personal trainer knows that while coming to the gym on a regular basis is critical for muscle gains, being consistent with what you do once you're inside the gym, can be devastating. Your body adapts (adds muscle) to meet the demands you place on it, and once it does, you have to place new demands on it to give it something else to adapt to. If you've been doing a two day split for two years, you need to STOP and do something different. Try a 3 different full body workouts a week instead.

    Also, I don't know what kind of trainer you have, but if he's ok with you not doing cardio, then he's crazy. Forget fat loss, if you want to feel as good as you look, you need a healthy heart. Also, the more aerobically fit you are, the faster your body will recover from workouts. Shorter amounts of time between workouts means faster results. CARDIO at least 3x/week.

    Everyone's basically right about the amount of food you eat. You think beauty is easy? Eat that tuna, boy! And you better love it, cause you're gonna' be eating a lot of it. You know from here how much protein you need to be eating every day. Well in order for your body to change that protein into muscle it needs energy. That energy comes from calories. Those calories come from carbs and fat. To build muscle like you want to, you can't EVER be hungry. In fact, to meet the calorie requirements you need, you'll probably be eating so often (up to every 2 hours) that you'll be absolutely sick of food. This is when a protein shake or something like that actually makes sense. It's one less meal you have to prepare.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jul 29, 2007 12:36 PM GMT
    Don't beat up on yourself anwalsh too much
    going by your pic you look great
    but you're right if you've been going at this for a few years you should be further along

    ...be careful of comparing yourself to the cover models tho
    there is a large Genetic component to what those guys look like that many of us cannot achieve no matter how much we workout
    but that doesn't mean we can't try
    I agree with many of the men here
    eat more protein....
    cardio? yeah but use it as a cutting tool - it doesn't build muscle
    what will help is working on the core muscles more
    legs - back - and abs these muscles will set the tone for the rest of the body