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    Feb 18, 2007 9:07 AM GMT
    how much you alow yourself to find it?
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    Feb 18, 2007 7:57 PM GMT
    Sounds like Dreamer knows his Cicero.
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    Feb 20, 2007 10:35 AM GMT
    I totally agree with Dreamer except i believe the opposite. No, I mean I totally agree with him. Anyone with abs like that has got to be wise. Also, I love him desperately.

    I personally love being around people who believe in me and don't judge me so much.

    Also, I love people whose wisdom I hear in my head when they are not around (or maybe that's the schizophrenia kicking in). In either case, Dreamer is cool.
  • treader

    Posts: 238

    Feb 20, 2007 11:46 PM GMT
    I do feel that it's harder to make gay friends. There's always this tension at first on 'where is this going to go?'. There can be such a blurred line at times.

    I have had a problem recently of people that I would like to have as friends but I get this gut feeling that they want more. So end up playing this wierd dance - each hoping that the other would change. It's gets frustrating after a while. It seems like the mentality is if you're single then you shouldn't be looking for friends - you should be looking for a date or to get laid. That's it. Anway...
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    Feb 21, 2007 4:03 PM GMT
    I agree with Treader. It always seems as if I'm not able to have gay friends because if we see each other too often, we're dating, and not enough and theres nothing. Very much a black/white with no gray area.
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    Feb 21, 2007 4:43 PM GMT
    I feel true friendship can be seen when the people you are around love you for who you are and not what you appear to be.

    I am terrified about comming out because i know, most of my "friends" probably wont understand. So I'm at a bypass, have friends but hide who i am, or be true to myself and be friendless.

    Haha really a loss loss situation.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is finding a good friend is hard, and when you find one, never let them go, never.

    Because what is life without having people to share it with.
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    Feb 21, 2007 4:55 PM GMT
    I am not too sure I fully agree with treader and spryte21. I would certainly think that it is always worth looking for friends, as without them a life isn't much of a life.

    I don't think we are meant to go through this journey alone and we all benefit from the support of others.

    As far as the friends/lovers situation goes. We should try being honest and upfront early on in the friendship, with something like, 'Hey, I like you very much but can't see us ever getting together sexually. However I do think you're a lovely person and I'd be honoured to be your friend' I know this takes a bit of courage, especially if you are shy, but really we are all adults here and I've always felt being upfront saves a lot of misunderstanding later.

    Boring old fart Laurence
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    Feb 22, 2007 3:52 PM GMT
    don't get me wrong, I don't believe that everyone is the way I made it sound. Just in my experience in my area of the country. I would very much like to have a gay best friend. but in my neck of the woods, i would have to settle for a gay best girl friend. the gay to les ratio is very much not in my favor around here. lol.
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    Feb 22, 2007 4:06 PM GMT
    Hi Spryte

    Sorry no offence was meant. I always forget, coming from the busy gay capital of London. That the US is SO massive and that not everyone has the luxury of living in a place full of lezzas and Gays.

    But hang on in there (god that sounds's not meant to be), there's a big Gay community and coming on sites like this will make you more friends than you'd imagine.

  • phill

    Posts: 117

    Feb 24, 2007 4:28 AM GMT
    Most of the gay friends that i have made have had urges to be more than friends at first. Im usually very upfront about my intentions. In all my profiles it says im looking for friends and not sex. There is this fear at times that if i come off as wanting to be friends to early that the friendship will go no where. But i figure if the person is digging me enough to consider me as a friend instead of romantic inclination than he will stick around.

    I value my gay friends because through there eyes i see my culture and feel connected to a lifestyle im just starting to understand. I love them for who they are because they have the bravery to be free from what society places as a norm.

    I give my all to each and everyone of my friends and at times this confuses them because it can blur the line between friend/lover. I love them dearly and show it.
  • GQjock

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    Apr 14, 2007 9:28 PM GMT
    It's very hard to make "Gay" friends...
    once you have them their friends for life
    but there's always that sexual minefield you have to tip-toe thru first
    ...are you interested in me? No, I'm not interested in you. Why aren't you interested in me?....blah, blah blah
    So taking stock most of my friends happen to be friends of friends or Ex's of mine on the guy side
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    Jun 15, 2007 12:56 AM GMT
    I find it hard to make gay friends, too.

    For some reason they all get mad, legitamitely angry because I don't want to take it further... maybe I would if they didn't act so desperate.

    I try to make as many friends as I can, which isnt hard, the only problem is that very few of them are what I consider "good" friends.
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    Jun 15, 2007 2:47 AM GMT
    Virtually all of the gay friends I have are those that were introduced by other gay friends. I tend to be very shy with people I don't know and when ever I've tried to start a conversation with someone gay whom I didn't know they assume I'm hitting on them (I don't know why since I'm not the flirtatious type). This means they react one of three ways that seems to be age related: if they're 10 years or more younger than me, I'm 'creepy old guy', if they're about my age, they're response is a form of 'I'm not interested' no matter how much of a nonsequitor that may be to the question I asked (which can be very funny after the fact), and if they're older, it's "lets go back to my place and discuss".

    I've only got about 7 really close gay friends who have no problem giving me an honest answer when I ask, and will always be there when I may make an occasional social faux pas. They've always been there for the good and the bad and I will always be there for them.
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    Jun 15, 2007 2:13 PM GMT
    hey guys... tough subject this one. I have a few very good friends. one of them I consider my best 'female' friend, who just happens to be my ex wife! but seriously, most of my male fiends are guys i've slept with, there's no tension, cause we've been there. although there's one guy i've known for almost 9 yrs now, and we've never been naked together. that's when you know it's more than just your cock that makes u important! they respect u for who u are, not what you've got in your pants.... does that make sense?
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    Jun 16, 2007 4:18 PM GMT
    GQjock brings up a good point. I do not have gay friends. I have gay guys that I know but if I was in trouble or needed some to be there for me I would not call them. I do not know why it is so hard to make good gay friends. All my male friends are str8. Does that say soemthing about us as gay men, that we can not extend the hand of friendship but we can easily flip our dicks out for sex? Sad isnt it? I have a very few friends who have been with me in the good times, and did not hesitate to be there in my bad times. The falkes ran away as soon as trouble showed up, and thats a sign you look for in a good friend, those who stick around. I think that friendship is just like a relationship. You have to wokr on it. Yes the attraction, the connection may be instant, but you go to keep it up. What kind of a friend are you if you never call, or make the effort to hang with that person. Also if they are going to accept you for who you are and respect you, you are suppose to do the same in return. Having friends is not easy, but is sure as hell worth it.
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    Jun 16, 2007 4:47 PM GMT
    This is a very interesting topic. Mostly because its something that Ive been struggling with a lot lately. I was part of a big group of friends and we partied every weekend together. Then I stopped drinking and found out that our friendship was based on party buds. There is always that whole, are you attracted to me, sort of attitude when I meet new gay men. Its almost like we all need to have the sex, get it over with and then we can concentrate on being friends. That has only happen ed a couple times and in the end the friendship didnt work out. It is very hard to find a true friend who is there for you thru thick and thin.

    My best friend just happens to be a girl who was the last women I dated until I finally accepted the fact I was gay. I have many gay acquiances who I would consider friends but like many have said in this forum, I wouldnt trust them to call in case of an emergency. I'm sure that some would be there but I dont want to test it.

    In the end, I feel, we just need to be open to new friends and they will come if and when its suppose to happen, not forced.
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    Jun 16, 2007 4:59 PM GMT
    Women say the same thing frequently and usually blame sexual competition.
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    Jun 16, 2007 5:36 PM GMT
    Interesting topic...

    I've always found it somewhat difficult/confusing to make gay friends for the same reasons expressed by a few others here. Pretty much all of my gay friends have slept with each other. I'm an anomaly in that I haven't slept with any of them.

    I've found, more often than not, that sexual attraction drives friendship, at least initially, in the gay world. How many of us have had (still have) those friends we *know* want to sleep with us? And once you know that a person has feelings for you, it adds a strange and awkward dimension to the friendship.

    Since I moved out of the city, I only have one gay friend where I live now. It's been such a relief making new friends without any sexual/attraction politics. I find that my friendships are much deeper now because there's no attraction - or even potential for attraction - between myself and my straight friends.

    As for my one gay friend, shortly after we met, he told me he had a crush on me. I was just out of a (bad) relationship, so the last thing I wanted to consider was dating anyone. We've stayed friends - and he's become a very good friend - but I sometimes still feel as if he's interested or hopes that things will change between us. Quite honestly I'm a bit worried about what he'll do if I ever decide I want to start dating again. As much as I value his friendship, this is the kind of thing that makes gay friendships difficult for me.

    When looking at the straight world, how often does one find good heterosexual friendships? How often does one see a guy with really close girl friends, or vice versa? How often does one see a guy in a relationship hanging out with his best bud girl friend, going camping for the weekend, etc? It doesn't happen very often from what I've observed. Why? Simple. The potential for attraction. I think this is what makes gay friendships more of a challenge.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 16, 2007 5:58 PM GMT
    I've been struggling with trying to enforce a distinction in feelings beween friends and boyfriends for years. It's complicated, and I understand the dilemma highsierrahiker is in with his will be very tough for highsierra's friend when highsierra starts to date, and the friend realizes he's out of the picture that way.

    It's odd that for me in some respects it's more of a challenge and in other respects less so to make gay friends.

    Since the kind of person I gravitate towards is one with whom I can have shared experiences, if that person is a male, he's liable to also attract me, since there isn't much distinction between what I am looking for in a boyfriend and a friend in terms of interests.

    Physically, I am attracted to guys who are fit and actively athletic. But those are the sorts of guys with whom I'd want to pal around with too. And some of these guys are also ones that share other interests with. As peterstrong puts in his profile, many of my friends are guys I'd like to date, if things could work out that way.

    I also think it's a mistake to completely repress the sexual edge (I don't mean one has to act on it) you might feel for a friend with whom you are not boyfriends. That sexual edge may be there because of a deep sense of emotional connection. To repress it (again, I don't mean act on it) might destroy the connection.
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    Jun 16, 2007 6:25 PM GMT
    Hmm. I guess I'm an anomaly on this one--none of my gay friends are guys I wanted to sleep with, and I think only one or two of them might have been interested in me that way. One of my better gay friends was a guy I went on a date with; we were both not the other's physical type, he was just out of a relationship and not over his ex, I was just out of the closet and rather hesitant about dating, and a number of other things that make us much better off as friends than boyfriends. I have significantly more straight friends than gay ones, but that's not surprising because there are so many more straight people than there are gay ones. Actually, to the best of my knowledge, more of my friends who would have liked to sleep with me are straight women than are gay men--including my best friend from college.

    There's also the fact that my two closest gay male friends are guys I befriended while we were all still in the closet, including both my best friend from high school and one of my roommates in college.

    Long term, I've typically had fairly even numbers of guys and girls as my closest friends (though in college it did skew a bit more towards the girls), but my second circle of friends--the people who are more than just acquaintances but aren't the sort you call out of the blue to see if they're free to do something--have been primarily women. I've always felt that part of it had to do with hierarchies; men and women in social groups often establish their pecking order within a gender, but there isn't the posturing for position between genders. Dealing with the chest thumping of some guys was just so much more draining than dealing with the girls, who I'm sure were doing their own version of it but which didn't directly concern me. I've long joked that my life is a sitcom, but it was pretty bad during college when my best friend asked me out, I turned her down, and she started dating someone else while a mutual friend of ours really wanted to date her. *That* guy got to be really irritating in trying to one-up me all the time in front of her, hoping to get her to notice him. I never had to deal with my female friends trying to one-up me for status.
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    Jun 16, 2007 6:36 PM GMT
    My friendships are based on other things than being gay. I don't think of myself as gay first--there's Christian, Democrat, tai-chi-doer, music-discusser, reader, walker, art-museum liker, Lost fan, Woody Allen fan--and lots of other things that are more fundamental to my identity than being gay. If a guy and I connect on these other things, and he happens to be gay, then I have a gay friend. But a guy who can't recite the numbers Hurley used to win the lottery isn't going to have a chance with me, gay or straight!!
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    Jun 21, 2007 9:32 AM GMT
    One area I think that is relevant could be called:

    Curtains,protection techniques or putting up the shutters.

    As gay men a lot of us may at some stage have developed techniques to keep areas of our lives closed from family and friends etc. For some it would have been a short period for others an extended.

    We get very very good at those techniques. "Putting the shutters up".

    A result of this is that what one gets good at, one also learns to get good a recognising.

    I believe what makes friendships difficult (but never impossible) between many gay men is that they encounter each other at differing stages of discarding those shutter techniques.

    Indeed for men with less "protected" zones in their life encountering those techniques can be painful and signal a lack of trust. It will signal that their emotional needs will not be supported. This is more often an assessment at sub-conscience level.

    For those that protect areas of their life, they often feel pushed along uncomfortably into areas that they believe they are not ready for and possibly personality wise may never be ready for. They will very often be more internally processing emotional needs or simply ignoring/storing them.

    I see above as a sliding scaling, it is also complicated by any underlying sexual tension or history that may exist.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 21, 2007 10:59 AM GMT
    Another aspect of the friends that I had that I hadn't mentioned before was that I had to think about which friends were gay and which weren't. I tend to not segregate them. I realize that if there are 'gay issues' I want to discuss that only my gay friends will understand then I think of who's gay or not ("What's the best lube? Is this vacation spot gay-safe?") but many of the things my friends and I talk about are not gay specific (relationships, family issues, etc) so there's no distinction there.

    If I find one of my gay friends to be really hot/attractive, it's never an issue since if he's not interested in me in a romantic/sexual way whether its because I'm not his type or he's in a relationship, it doesn't matter and is never an issue since being friends always precludes that.

    A guy could be the hottest man I've ever seen or met, but if he's not interested in me, why waste time or ruin a friendship with that. That happened once in my life and will NEVER happen again. Nothing is worth hurting someone or yourself over if they are good friends.
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    Jun 21, 2007 2:54 PM GMT
    I agree with most of what has been said, there is a layer of sexual tension at some point in gay male relationships. I have found similar tension when making friends with a straight woman that doesn't know I'm gay.

    My 3 best friends:
    one is my ex of 7.5 years;
    second I slept with within a week of meeting him, didn't feel right to either of us, so we became best friends instead;
    third have never slept with, but there was one really weird night...

    we were college roommates, and shared apartments after college for about 5 years. In the last apartment we lived together in, one night after we had been out drinking he confessed to me that he had "feelings" and wanted to know if I did. We talked for a long time, as he has been my closest friend for the longest of anyone (26+ years). We met at Boy Scout Camp when we were both counselors, he was the first person I came out to, etc.). At the end of our conversation that night, we almost kissed, but it just didn't click right for me. We didn't kiss of anything, and he went off to his bedroom.

    Within a month after that he met a great guy and they have been together sisnce. And he is still my bestest of my 3 closest friends.

    Not sure if my story helps anyone, but I felt like sharing it. :o)

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    Jun 21, 2007 4:31 PM GMT
    I've always loved what one of my mentors, Adolf Guggenbuhl-Craig, says:

    "A really close friend is someone you can only bear to be around five minutes a year."

    It's hyperbole, of course, but I think it's true. A good friend calls you on all your shit, sees through you in a flash and demands you do better. Sometimes I hate my friends.