Irony in gay pride parades!

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9528

    Jun 09, 2008 12:49 AM GMT
    georgiaboy said, "Does anyone else see the irony that we, the gays, have a gay pride parade to encourage equality when the fact that we have our OWN parade and celebrate being gay is in itself not equal to the masses and promotes segregation within? Do we subconsciously retain segregation so we have something to fight for?"

    I have been to only one gay pride parade (Seattle '03) and have to wonder what you're talking about. I saw gays, heteros, bisexuals, Catholics, Boy Scouts, etc. etc. etc. and see the COMMUNITY that it promotes. Pride is about equality, not special treatment. Celebration is not segragation. PRIDE is all inclusive.
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    Jun 09, 2008 2:04 AM GMT
    There are many possible criticisms of Pride celebrations. This is among the most misconceived.

    In case you hadn't noticed, and regardless of your political views, LGBT people are discriminated against, threatened with violence, etc, etc. This demands a response. How Pride should best meet that requirement is another question entirely.

    Shame shame shame on you MikePhil. You live in a country far more tolerant than the one I'm in. There may be no battles to fight where you are, but there sure are here.

    The "I'm alright Jack" attitude is one of the worst and most contemptible of views to hold.
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    Jun 09, 2008 2:20 AM GMT
    georgiaboy saidBut that’s the mindset, “let us have one measly day!” Key word being “us.” That's segregation. You want yours b/c they have theirs! If you feel every day is a straight day then instead of taking 1 day for ourselves lets live amongst everyone of all differences as if there is no difference, the definition of equal, and create a society that is actually equal and together WITH our differences! Not the “ you got yours, so I’ll take mine” idea.

    Actually, the best thing about Pride is not that the straight people stay away. They don't, at least not the gay-supportive ones. The best part is that the gay whiners stay home with the whining straight people.

    Hey, here's an idea. Let's all leave Real Jock. Why should we segregate ourselves here on a gay site? Ironic, ain't it?
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    Jun 09, 2008 3:06 AM GMT
    Why str8 people arent invited to Gay Pride...

    dis party sux� word
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    Jun 09, 2008 3:48 AM GMT
    In actuality, I would say a severe criticism of some Pride festivals is that too little attention is paid to the participation of Allies.
  • trebor965

    Posts: 200

    Jun 09, 2008 4:20 AM GMT
    my straight friends took their family to the gay parade in royal oak. it was a family outing.
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    Jun 09, 2008 4:45 AM GMT
    PRIDE! Parades and festivals are an important part of gay culture and heritage, as well as all of the politics and marketing, etc., which goes on. It is important because someplace, every moment of every day, somebody comes to terms with themselves or a family member or friend or co-worker, and what it means to be "GAY" or "LESBIAN" or "BISEXUAL" or "TRANSGENDERED" and that person needs to know that they are not alone. PRIDE is as much a public display of support as it is a reason to party...even if it is only on one day out of 365!
    If you have never been to a PRIDE festival and parade, you should go at least once, to have the experience and get a better perspective of what the community is like in your city. If you have been to previous PRIDES, GREAT! I hope you had fun and continue to attend and support them. Just know that the vast majority of smaller PRIDES grow each year, because we don't all live in the Mega-cities and need to know that there are others out there that understand what it is like to “want that hot guy at the gym, but are afraid to talk to him because you might get beaten up”, or that you enjoy doing drag, but haven't known where to go with this need, or what it is like to want a church that is accepting.....PRIDE gives all of that an outlet and in a fun and positive environment. PRIDE is about many things, but one of the more important is that everyone is allowed to be themselves and express themselves freely...from the DYKES on Bikes to the Topless Lesbians, to the CHUBBIES and the BEARS and TWINKS, JOCKS, DRAG QUEENS and DRAG KINGS, to the "Band Fags", to the "FLAGGOTS", to PFLAG, etc....even the religious and the political....all are welcomed!
    The protesters are even expected, although they are pointedly excluded from the festival, they too have the right to attend and make their views known outside of the festival grounds...
    I find very little to be "ironic" or "disingenuous" about having PRIDE parades and festivals....I think they are needed and more than once a year! I thinks we need to let people see that we are all different and yet similar. That we are the “professional” or the “blue collar guy”, or the father of children with a family and the High School student and the college Frat Boy, or the Lip Stick Lesbian Beauty Queen, or the military Veteran, or the minister of a Church, etc….that we can be Republican or Democrat, or Black or Asian, or beautiful or ugly, thin or fat or jocks or theatrical or flaming or… “Just like them”!

    PRIDE in Columbus, OH, is a VERY BIG event and culminates a full month of events, this year on the weekend of June 28-29.....PLEASE Come to COLUMBUS for PRIDE! Last year had about 200,000 in attendance and the parade lasted about 2 hours and stretched out over about 2.5 miles, through downtown Columbus, in front of the State Capitol and is usually well attended by the Mayor and many high placed politicians and other supporters, MANY of them are STRAIGHT ALLIES! MANY HAVE THEEIR KIDS AND SPOUSES with them and many are marching in the parades!.....The city is very accepting, friendly and FUN!
  • imperator

    Posts: 626

    Jun 09, 2008 5:40 AM GMT
    I've never bought this assimilationist rhetoric. Sure, we can denounce identity politics and tell ourselves that we're equal to everyone else and that we don't need a "special day" to feel as free to walk down Main street as any hetero couple, but your argument ignores a major point: the oppression or disenfranchisement of a minority by the majority doesn't just stop because the minority declares themselves equal. Heterosexism and straight priviledge won't just go away because we say so.

    In order to secure its position relative to the majority, the minority has to remain visible and vocal and refuse to dissappear or appear content so long as there is inequality. When the majority finally gets used to the idea that we're here, and that we're not *so* different but that our differences must be respected, and when the bigotry against us becomes so marginalised that homophobia is no longer protected or sanctioned or indeed practiced by government, then we can talk about just blending in and not needing Pride days. But until then, if we're complacent/lazy and we don't make ourselves seen and heard, then the ignorant wackos will keep hammering-- unchallenged-- that we're insignificant, that we're 'sick' and 'immoral,' and without a presence to defend ourselves they'll set back the clock. To accept leftover scraps from someone seated at the table-- rather than to demand a seat ourselves-- is to court starvation while the one giving the handouts gets fat. Someone who is truly equal doesn't need 'protection' or charity.

    Moreover, I think many of us who are out and proud and have some perspective don't observe Pride days for ourselves-- we really don't need the day to walk freely in public view because we own that every day. We do it for the still-closeted people who are still under the cloud of thinking they're "the only one," so that they can see our numbers and our diversity and see that we aren't all one way or another-- flamboyant or tragic or stereotypical-- and that there could be a place for them in our midst if they're living lives that feel like traps. I show up to pride for them (and for the eye candy, if I'm to be honest) so that maybe they can recognise a familiar face in the crowd.

    Back to my main point, though: as long as there are organisations out there as big and as influential as-- for example-- Focus on the Family, trying to convince society and governments that we're immoral deviants and that we should be treated like second-class citizens (or worse) we can't stick our fingers in our ears and say "la de da, isn't it great that we're all so equal, we don't need to make a scene or call attention to ourselves because that would be segregating ourselves." We can't afford to, because there are people out there who hate us. It's unjustified and unjust and it's real-- they absolutely believe in the "us versus them" and they want us gone-- and even if we object philosophically to the entire game, if we don't show up then we forfeit.

    If you allow yourself to be invisible, then you're making it that much easier for those who want to make you dissappear. When there's no longer a vast and powerful segment of society actively out to disadvantage us, then we can truly relax. Until then, resting on our laurels and pretending there's no differences between us (when there is a legitimate, essential characteristic that makes us different from the majority-- not better or worse, just different) is tantamount to slow suicide.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 09, 2008 10:04 AM GMT
    TigerTim saidShame shame shame on you MikePhil. You live in a country far more tolerant than the one I'm in. There may be no battles to fight where you are, but there sure are here.

    The "I'm alright Jack" attitude is one of the worst and most contemptible of views to hold.





    Tim, Why is it that your response does not surprise me?

    I said, I have never been to a pride parade, and ask to be educated, and I asked if any straight groups or individuals have been invited. When I say invited, I mean asked to take part in the parade, not to come and view it.

    I gave my view based on what I have seen in photos and in the news.

    Sorry Tim I always seem to bug you in some way.

    Shame shame shame on you Tim. You couldn't address my points, or answer my questions.

    Mike
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    Jun 09, 2008 10:49 AM GMT
    MikePhil said[quote][cite]TigerTim said[/cite]Shame shame shame on you MikePhil. You live in a country far more tolerant than the one I'm in. There may be no battles to fight where you are, but there sure are here.

    The "I'm alright Jack" attitude is one of the worst and most contemptible of views to hold.





    Tim, Why is it that your response does not surprise me?

    I said, I have never been to a pride parade, and ask to be educated, and I asked if any straight groups or individuals have been invited. When I say invited, I mean asked to take part in the parade, not to come and view it.

    I gave my view based on what I have seen in photos and in the news.

    Sorry Tim I always seem to bug you in some way.

    Shame shame shame on you Tim. You couldn't address my points, or answer my questions.

    Mike
    [/quote]

    People did address your points.

    1) PFLAG (parents and friends of Lesbians and Gay) march in pretty much every pride parade, as do straight politican, the Mayor of London Marches here.....

    2) Plenty of straight friends/colleagues/family have attended Pride/Mardi Gras with me. It's very inclusive, not exclusive. Mardi gras in Sydney

    3) I don't see how you can generalise about the state of undress of people if you've never been to a parade. Most people are in street attire.


    4) Plenty of straights have been invited to gay weddings. Do you think gay mne only mix with gay men? I'd say I have as many straight friends as gay.
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    Jun 09, 2008 11:11 AM GMT
    Why don't you ask our members from Latvia and Poland what they feel about gay pride parades. There are still many places in the world where they have to fight to have a parade and face physical dangers when they do participate.

    It wasn't that long ago when the same thing was the norm in America. I'm sure there are still quite a few areas in America where it takes guts to hold and attend a gay pride parade.

    Midtown Manhattan is not middle America...
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    Jun 09, 2008 12:00 PM GMT
    I may be over simplifying things...
    but I know a lot of straight people that are going to this years Boston Pride, just because they've heard it was a blast. I've always thought a good way to make friends is throw a FABULOUS party and invite everyone! So I'm all for having a pride parade.
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    Jun 09, 2008 12:59 PM GMT
    a1972guy saidMy favorite part about the WHOLE thing is when the local TV News interviews the one guy who is clad in PRACTICALLY nothing, and we KNOW he's on something, and he's talking about we want to be treated like everyone else and be equal and yadda yadda yadda! Dude, he's in a TooToo with a G-String and on Roller Skates!!! Come one!!!


    I've always been temped to wear a T-shirt that says, "Pride?" on the front, and "Slightly Amused" on the back.
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    Jun 09, 2008 1:03 PM GMT
    MikePhil saidTim, Why is it that your response does not surprise me?


    I'm not sure. You'll have to answer that. Perhaps you expected such a response when you wrote this:

    MikePhilI think alot of gays would be lost if they had nothing to fight for.

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    Jun 09, 2008 1:46 PM GMT
    georgiaboy saidDoes anyone else see the irony that we, the gays, have a gay pride parade to encourage equality when the fact that we have our OWN parade and celebrate being gay is in itself not equal to the masses and promotes segregation within?

    Do we subconsciously retain segregation so we have something to fight for?


    No, pride parades are REPARATIONS for all the times I hit on a guy in public and, due to statistics, get rejected by the fact that he's straight. All I ask for is one day out of the entire year where I can roam around hitting on any guy I want without worrying about his sexuality (except for the gay-for-pay ones in their underwear passing out porno passes). This day where all the gays are rounded up and then quarantined to park festival is called gay pride and I'm sure glad it exists.

    The thing with this "retain segregation" is that to some degree gays will segregate for the purposes of courting each other and trying to get laid. It makes perfect sense. After all, that's what straight people do (unless you think no hetero gets laid from going to a straight bar).
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    Jun 09, 2008 1:50 PM GMT
    georgiaboy saidBut that’s the mindset, “let us have one measly day!” Key word being “us.” That's segregation. You want yours b/c they have theirs! If you feel every day is a straight day then instead of taking 1 day for ourselves lets live amongst everyone of all differences as if there is no difference, the definition of equal, and create a society that is actually equal and together WITH our differences! Not the “ you got yours, so I’ll take mine” idea.


    Straight men segregate themselves all the time. It just doesn't seem like because there's too many of them.

    Besides, where else can you see the crunkest most ridiculous looking butch Lesbian fights? Thank god for gay pride.
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    Jun 09, 2008 2:07 PM GMT
    MikePhil saidI will never understand this thing they call "gay pride"

    I don't think it is subconscious at all. I think alot of gays would be lost if they had nothing to fight for.

    Mike

    Perhaps you should read this thread then:
    Lesbian kisses at game ignite Seattle debate
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    Jun 09, 2008 2:14 PM GMT

    Anybody can have fun at PRIDE, even straight people. Even if it is celebrating us, it is still a celebration!! How is it segregative when anyone is envited? It's the same as calling a Renassaince Festival segregative, or a POW-WOW, or the Fourth. Mostly any party has a theme, a birthday, a bridal shower....a PRIDE PARADE. I can't even think of a celebration that is themed toward everyone: Earth Day maybe? All I know is if you can't have fun at a PRIDE parade you really need to remove the sizable utility pipe from your ass.
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    Jun 09, 2008 2:17 PM GMT
    New Orleans IS parade headquarters. We celebrate uniqueness and diversity without batting an eye.... for anything. We don't care, ....we don't have to.... we're New Orleans.icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 09, 2008 2:20 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    Anybody can have fun at PRIDE, even straight people. Even if it is celebrating us, it is still a celebration!! How is it segregative when anyone is envited? It's the same as calling a Renassaince Festival segregative, or a POW-WOW, or the Fourth. Mostly any party has a theme, a birthday, a bridal shower....a PRIDE PARADE. I can't even think of a celebration that is themed toward everyone: Earth Day maybe? All I know is if you can't have fun at a PRIDE parade you really need to remove the sizable utility pipe from your ass.


    Well stated!
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    Jun 09, 2008 2:30 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear said...All I know is if you can't have fun at a PRIDE parade you really need to remove the sizable utility pipe from your ass.


    icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jun 09, 2008 2:41 PM GMT
    TigerTim said[quote][cite]MikePhil said[/cite]Tim, Why is it that your response does not surprise me?


    I'm not sure. You'll have to answer that. Perhaps you expected such a response when you wrote this:

    MikePhilI think alot of gays would be lost if they had nothing to fight for.

    [/quote]


    "THINK"being the key word there.

    Anyway, it seems you want me to think that way. Seen as you have no interest in educating me.

    For those that have, thank you, and I will reply to you later icon_wink.gif

    Mike
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    Jun 09, 2008 2:51 PM GMT

    MikePhil, everytime you snog the boyfriend: that is like a mini-PRIDE-Parade. A real PRIDE Parade is like that, except on a grander scale!

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    Jun 09, 2008 3:07 PM GMT
    No I don't believe WE retain segragation within at all. I put the responsibility for answering this question unto the hands of gay pride parade organizers and the rules the city that regulates what's allowable or not. I as someone who watches the parade am not responsible for what goes into it. After all, I've never paid money see a gay pride parade.

    And I don't see how people finding common ground and refering to themselves as "us", even if it's officially for one condom laced homo holiday, promotes segragation? If anything the main goal of Pride parades and any other peace seeking group is to help give people whom feel lost and alone a sense of brotherhood. With that Us could come to mean anyone whom supports the LGBT community and their families. It's not like the only people affected by Pride are gay clubbers.

    But no matter what is said or done, the term "Us" will always be used segragate a group of people from another. Our country and humanity for that matter are not so socially evolved as we'd all like to believe. We still employ many old "outdated" ways of thinking and verbalizing ourselves on any scale in many ways. Until society comes together in a way similar to that of 50's and 60's Civil Rights Movement again, and redefines what it means to be Human and Humane, that we're going to have to deal with that fact that we still seek to separate the "good" apples from the "bad" apples. The same way you separate yourself from "anyone else [whom] see[s] the irony"

    Personally, I like any parade or social gathering that promotes tolerance and acceptance of difference. But in the end it's just like Mardi Gras, and will be remembered for the cute useless trinkets we get and the hangover the next day. It can do anymore harm to than you can do to yourself.
  • irishboxers

    Posts: 357

    Jun 09, 2008 3:48 PM GMT
    Has anyone else noticed that MikePhil is getting berated for not toeing the line on Pride? It's his choice not to participate and yet he's getting buried in reasons why he's wrong. Seems like he's getting segregated into the "unPrideful" bunch.

    I would be more accepting of the whole Pride production if it truly was a celebration of diversity. As it is now (in LA, at least), it's four massive dance stages surrounded by drink tents adjacent to the S&M pavillion. All the other special interest groups (gay dads, sports/civic/business organizations, outreach groups) are stuck behind a wall off to the side so as not to ruin the party atmosphere. I don't have a handy solution to it, but it's clear where the emphasis is.