Irony in gay pride parades!

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    Jun 09, 2008 3:49 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]

    I've always been temped to wear a T-shirt that says, "Pride?" on the front, and "Slightly Amused" on the back.[/quote]


    I think I may do that! THANKS for the idea!!!
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    Jun 09, 2008 3:55 PM GMT
    MikePhil saidI will never understand this thing they call "gay pride"

    I don't think it is subconscious at all. I think alot of gays would be lost if they had nothing to fight for.

    Mike



    That or fall to the negative (god I'm tired, lets make this short because I just ran outa words). Some guys are really hurt by all the bad vibes that surround being gay and grab that and turn it into Pride. You can't fight fire meekly, and so it turns into a flamboyant, high visibility affair because they strive not to be seeing as cowering from the (tired, can't remember the words)whatever.

    I'm indifferent to the Gay Pride bit, and I've always failed to see how being gay is supposed to affect a gay(happy) outlook.
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    Jun 09, 2008 4:08 PM GMT
    JustSwim> I'm sure there are still quite a few areas in America where it takes guts to hold and attend a gay pride parade.

    Obviously there are people in America who feel strongly about this. At a glance, I've noticed that we've gotten some posts here from people who have never previously posted (maybe that's par for the course in any topic, don't have the time to really look into it).


    Perhaps the reason I most like Pride is that it is OUTDOORS. A great alternative to bars, especially in areas where bars are not smoke-free. And it doesn't get just the bar flies.
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    Jun 09, 2008 4:16 PM GMT
    irishboxers saidHas anyone else noticed that MikePhil is getting berated for not toeing the line on Pride? It's his choice not to participate and yet he's getting buried in reasons why he's wrong. Seems like he's getting segregated into the "unPrideful" bunch.


    It seems to me that MikePhil is getting berated for forming an opinion about Pride without educating himself about what it is or represents. He hasn't even been to a Pride celebration! I think that's a pretty fair reason for berating someone.

    If he had an educated opinion for not liking Pride, I don't think there'd be nearly the same response.

    irishboxers saidI would be more accepting of the whole Pride production if it truly was a celebration of diversity. As it is now (in LA, at least), it's four massive dance stages surrounded by drink tents adjacent to the S&M pavillion. All the other special interest groups (gay dads, sports/civic/business organizations, outreach groups) are stuck behind a wall off to the side so as not to ruin the party atmosphere. I don't have a handy solution to it, but it's clear where the emphasis is.


    My experience at the various events I've attended across the US and Canada is that any area in which alcohol is sold has to be separated by law. I don't know if this is true in LA, but your description sure sounds like it.
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    Jun 09, 2008 4:16 PM GMT

    " MikePhil said
    I need to be honest here first. I have never been to a gay pride parade. All I know is what I've seen in pictures, and on TV, and what I have seen would not encourage me in anyway to even consider going.

    Yeah, nothing wrong with celebrating, and being proud, and I certainly have no shame, but I do not have to parade along a street half naked to do that. I cant see how that could further the cause of gays. I honestly think it is the opposite it does.


    I hope you make it to a Pride Parade one day, MikePhil.

    .................................smaller

    If you go, you'll find a celebration of who we are, not a protest or Equal Rights March. You'll also, with your feeble old eyes, see that PRIDE is not an instrument of spite against others or a starchy declaration of our social standing, but a means of individual empowerment! Hopefully, when you see this, you'll be able to rise from your uninspired confines, take yer shirt off, and get some sun on that chest!




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    Jun 09, 2008 4:17 PM GMT
    Being newly out, I'm really torn on the subject of gay pride and pride parades.

    On the one hand, no one celebrates being straight. Straight people don't have a need to celebrate being straight because they are accepted and even expected to be straight. I honestly don't think that pride parades are about being equal at all. I think that they are about being unique and wishing to be recognized, affirmed and valued. Celebrating one's uniqueness is not a bad thing. At the risk of being called names, I have to say that I believe in the "Vulcan" religious premise of IDIC, "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination." That is, we, are stronger for our uniqueness and we need to celebrate it. It's not just about gays and lesbians, or at least, I hope that it evolves, someday, into something greater, embracing all who have some uniqueness. ...More of a "Diversity Day."

    On the other hand, those who are "in your face" about their homosexuality and/or all the things which are peripheral to or associated with homosexuality (drag queens, skimpy clothing, sexual acting out, etc). Tend to put people off, promote stereotypes, and support ignorance of our value to society. And believe me, this is not a "whine." This is my own internal conflict that I need to resolve.

    My partner is marching in Seattle's gay pride parade, dressed as his drag personna, Sizzlene. I can march with him, sit on the sidelines with friends, watching, or not go at all. Because I'm newly out, I'm excited about being gay and want everyone to know how happy I am being gay, and how much I love finally being able to be myself. Therein lies my dilemma, which I have to resolve MYSELF.

    I love the drag queens, and the butch men, the bears and the leathermen, the lipstick lesbians and the bull dykes. I have friends in all those categories, now, and have learned for myself just what wonderful people they can be.

    I don't know, yet, what I'll do for pride, but it is a reminder for me that I now have the opportunity to be myself, happy, and that I can support others in being themselves. Most of all, I'm going to HAVE FUN, something I hadn't known all those years that I closeted myself.

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    Jun 09, 2008 4:22 PM GMT
    sundown55 saidOn the one hand, no one celebrates being straight.


    Of course they do. Ever been to Mardi Gras ("Show Us Your tits!")? How about Carnivale? How about a bachelor party? Heck, every commercial and almost every sitcom on TV is a celebration of being straight.

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    Jun 09, 2008 4:24 PM GMT
    "On the one hand, no one celebrates being straight."

    I think somebody already mentioned weddings. I think that pretty clearly celebrates heterosexuality as well as procreation and the missionary position.
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    Jun 09, 2008 4:36 PM GMT


    We don't have a PRIDE parade because we have to, we do it because we want to!

    Photobucket

    Straight people don't celebrate being straight!!?
    They celebrate being straight everytime they can get married and have their nuptuals nationally recognized. They celebrate being straight every time they swap spit in public (yuck) and no one stares or berates them for it. They celebrate being straight anytime a woman dresses scantily in public and bares her chest for Mardi_Gra beeds and yet society turns their nose down at several blocks teeming with shirtless men. Isn't this what men do, take their shirts off, bare their cheat, assert their masculinity? But, because we are gay, we suddenly can't celebrate it! Why not?
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    Jun 09, 2008 4:39 PM GMT
    sundown55> I don't know, yet, what I'll do for pride, but it is a reminder for me that I now have the opportunity to be myself, happy, and that I can support others in being themselves. Most of all, I'm going to HAVE FUN, something I hadn't known all those years that I closeted myself.

    Exactly.

    Doesn't sound like you're that torn. Just go. You'll figure out everything else once you are there. (:
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 09, 2008 5:35 PM GMT
    Timberoo said[quote][cite]MikePhil said[/cite][quote][cite]Timberoo said[/cite]I see straight Pride parades quite often in the summer.

    Most other people call them weddings.



    I have been invited to some of those. How many straights are invited to the gays one?[/quote]

    Do you feel one must be invited if to go to the St Patrick's Day Parade if they are not Irish?[/quote]



    When I say "invited" I mean asked to take part in the parade. Not to come and view it.
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 09, 2008 5:39 PM GMT
    JBE60 saidWell I thought I was the first one to post to this forum topic this afternoon, but it got lost somehow.



    There are two threads, and I believe you posted in the other one.
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    Jun 09, 2008 5:51 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    " MikePhil said
    [i]I need to be honest here first. I have never been to a gay pride parade. All I know is what I've seen in pictures, and on TV, and what I have seen would not encourage me in anyway to even consider going.
    If you go, you'll find a celebration of who we are, not a protest or Equal Rights March. You'll also, with your feeble old eyes, see that PRIDE is not an instrument of spite against others or a starchy declaration of our social standing, but a means of individual empowerment! Hopefully, when you see this, you'll be able to rise from your uninspired confines, take yer shirt off, and get some sun on that chest!



    Your words are wise....thanks. I'm still conflicted about the whole thing. I don't identify with a lot of things I see in the parade,sometimes I am very embarressed..... yet FUK it, we can do whatever we wanr since we put up with so much shit almost everyday of our lives....or we see other gay men putting up with shit.

    In new york, I feel so proud and appreciative when I see the police, fire and other municipal workers proudly marching. It takes a real man, in jobs like that, to march. Then there are all the other gay groups that are dedicated to helping others....men and women with good souls. Then there are the "Parent's of gays" and the "grandparents of gays" and "sisters and brothers of gays" "gay doctors and lawyers"...the list goes on and on.

    And then there is the 2 minutes of silence to remember the ones who have died of AIDS,when you can hear a pin drop.... and there are tears everywhere.
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 09, 2008 5:59 PM GMT
    ChrisInLDN said[quote][cite]MikePhil said[/cite][quote][cite]TigerTim said[/cite]

    People did address your points.

    1) PFLAG (parents and friends of Lesbians and Gay) march in pretty much every pride parade, as do straight politican, the Mayor of London Marches here.....

    2) Plenty of straight friends/colleagues/family have attended Pride/Mardi Gras with me. It's very inclusive, not exclusive. Mardi gras in Sydney

    3) I don't see how you can generalise about the state of undress of people if you've never been to a parade. Most people are in street attire.


    4) Plenty of straights have been invited to gay weddings. Do you think gay mne only mix with gay men? I'd say I have as many straight friends as gay.


    Yes Chris, they did, but I was just replying to Tim, and he was a big help icon_smile.gif

    Anyway, PFLAG is not the kind of thing I'm talking about. PFLAG is a group involved with the gay community. I'm talking about groups that are not involved in anyway. Sport groups, youth groups, that kind of thing. Are there any of those?

    On point number 3, I explained where I got that view from. I can't say much more on that at this point. I hope to be proven wrong icon_smile.gif

    On number 4, I know that, I was just messing about the weddings icon_smile.gif
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 09, 2008 6:16 PM GMT
    irishboxers saidHas anyone else noticed that MikePhil is getting berated for not toeing the line on Pride? It's his choice not to participate and yet he's getting buried in reasons why he's wrong. Seems like he's getting segregated into the "unPrideful" bunch.

    I would be more accepting of the whole Pride production if it truly was a celebration of diversity. As it is now (in LA, at least), it's four massive dance stages surrounded by drink tents adjacent to the S&M pavillion. All the other special interest groups (gay dads, sports/civic/business organizations, outreach groups) are stuck behind a wall off to the side so as not to ruin the party atmosphere. I don't have a handy solution to it, but it's clear where the emphasis is.



    Thank you Irish icon_smile.gif

    Edit: I have removed a comment here also.

    If I felt all this pride, and some one posted what I posted, I would be all excited telling him all the reasons he should go, and trying to encourage him to go. If I were in the same area, I would be asking him to come with me.

    There is some encouragement from a few guys, and that is nice, but not what you would expect to get from a gay website. Why is it that just a hand full of guys give encouragement?

    Not a lot of pride from where I'm standing.
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 09, 2008 6:30 PM GMT
    Robis132 said[quote][cite]irishboxers said[/cite]Has anyone else noticed that MikePhil is getting berated for not toeing the line on Pride? It's his choice not to participate and yet he's getting buried in reasons why he's wrong. Seems like he's getting segregated into the "unPrideful" bunch.


    It seems to me that MikePhil is getting berated for forming an opinion about Pride without educating himself about what it is or represents. He hasn't even been to a Pride celebration! I think that's a pretty fair reason for berating someone.

    If he had an educated opinion for not liking Pride, I don't think there'd be nearly the same response.
    [/quote]

    Yet another response full of pride icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jun 09, 2008 6:33 PM GMT
    MikePhil said[quote][cite]JBE60 said[/cite]Well I thought I was the first one to post to this forum topic this afternoon, but it got lost somehow.



    There are two threads, and I believe you posted in the other one.[/quote]

    Thanks, I wish somehow RJ could warn people of very similar threads being created at the same time.
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 09, 2008 6:36 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    " MikePhil said
    I need to be honest here first. I have never been to a gay pride parade. All I know is what I've seen in pictures, and on TV, and what I have seen would not encourage me in anyway to even consider going.

    Yeah, nothing wrong with celebrating, and being proud, and I certainly have no shame, but I do not have to parade along a street half naked to do that. I cant see how that could further the cause of gays. I honestly think it is the opposite it does.


    I hope you make it to a Pride Parade one day, MikePhil.

    .................................smaller

    If you go, you'll find a celebration of who we are, not a protest or Equal Rights March. You'll also, with your feeble old eyes, see that PRIDE is not an instrument of spite against others or a starchy declaration of our social standing, but a means of individual empowerment! Hopefully, when you see this, you'll be able to rise from your uninspired confines, take yer shirt off, and get some sun on that chest!



    Maybe I will get the inspiration one day to go to one, but judging by some of the replies, to me at least, I would be in no rush to go icon_confused.gif

    But there have been a few encouraging ones.
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    Jun 09, 2008 6:40 PM GMT
    a1972guy saidMy favorite part about the WHOLE thing is when the local TV News interviews the one guy who is clad in PRACTICALLY nothing, and we KNOW he's on something, and he's talking about we want to be treated like everyone else and be equal and yadda yadda yadda! Dude, he's in a TooToo with a G-String and on Roller Skates!!! Come one!!!


    I can so relate to this. The media just eats that shit up. Don't forget the butchest lesbian possible with her lover hugging on her while they proudly ride their hog with the dykes on bikes. The lead off is usually named "Andy" and she's a full time Mechanic. Her hobbies include arm wrestling all the straight men at a biker bar.
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    Jun 09, 2008 7:28 PM GMT
    Thats the problem with pride, the fact that its related to celebrating diversity.


    To hell with diversity... when two people first meet, do they click based on things that are different between them? No, they click based on common interests. Same idea here.
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    Jun 09, 2008 8:56 PM GMT
    MikePhil said[quote][cite]Robis132 said[/cite][quote][cite]irishboxers said[/cite]Has anyone else noticed that MikePhil is getting berated for not toeing the line on Pride? It's his choice not to participate and yet he's getting buried in reasons why he's wrong. Seems like he's getting segregated into the "unPrideful" bunch.


    It seems to me that MikePhil is getting berated for forming an opinion about Pride without educating himself about what it is or represents. He hasn't even been to a Pride celebration! I think that's a pretty fair reason for berating someone.

    If he had an educated opinion for not liking Pride, I don't think there'd be nearly the same response.
    [/quote]

    Yet another response full of pride icon_rolleyes.gif[/quote]

    Wait a second, you post insulting claims about Pride and what it's about, then you admit that you've never actually been to an event, and you think we should all bend over backwards to invite you? Excuse my harsh words but screw that! You are responsible for your own actions, and it isn't anyone else's job to make you feel welcome when you go out of your way to discourage it.

    It isn't lacking pride to expect you to have educated yourself BEFORE opening your mouth. I'd happily encourage you to attend Pride but let's remember who shot the first volley over the bow. In short, if you express an opinion that is guaranteed to piss people off, you can't expect them you invite you to their party.
  • irishboxers

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    Jun 09, 2008 9:04 PM GMT
    Robis132 said[quote]
    My experience at the various events I've attended across the US and Canada is that any area in which alcohol is sold has to be separated by law. I don't know if this is true in LA, but your description sure sounds like it.


    You're absolutely right, Robis, but the last time I was at Pride (2 years ago) there was a beer vendor about 20 feet from the area where PFLAG, BALA, and the other non-profits and organizations were located. Also true of the main promenade-type area where other sponsors and booths were located...just steps from the drink tent and dance stages. I don't think zoning was the reason.
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    Jun 09, 2008 9:18 PM GMT

    In mike Phil's defense, when the media shows anything about PRIDE, it is usually the raunchy side: the guys showin their butts, making out in public, stumbling over drunk...pretty torrid stuff. Except straight people do these things all the time and noone objects. Cept me, muffin tops are the worst...lol.
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jun 09, 2008 9:37 PM GMT
    Robis132 said[quote][cite]MikePhil said[/cite][quote][cite]Robis132 said[/cite][quote][cite]irishboxers said[/cite]
    Yet another response full of pride icon_rolleyes.gif


    Wait a second, you post insulting claims about Pride and what it's about, then you admit that you've never actually been to an event, and you think we should all bend over backwards to invite you? Excuse my harsh words but screw that! You are responsible for your own actions, and it isn't anyone else's job to make you feel welcome when you go out of your way to discourage it.

    It isn't lacking pride to expect you to have educated yourself BEFORE opening your mouth. I'd happily encourage you to attend Pride but let's remember who shot the first volley over the bow. In short, if you express an opinion that is guaranteed to piss people off, you can't expect them you invite you to their party. [/quote]

    Robis, what were my insulting claims?

    I gave an opinion and my reasons for that opinion. I asked questions, and only one or two attempted to answer, and you were not one of the two, surprise surprise. I am guessing you can't answer so you attack instead icon_question.gif

    I think only you, and one other has taking offence, by my opinion.

    Just like you have an opinion on me, I have an opinion on Pride. What do you know about me, that gives you the right to say what you say?

    I will also inform you that, I have not gone out of my way to discourage it. I have asked those questions before in other gay websites without giving my opinion, and strangely enough trying to get answers is like trying to get teeth out of a hen.

    I have never discouraged anyone from going. I have never been encouraged to go, and anytime I question it, there seems to be a problem, yet it is called Pride. Show me the pride, and stop whingeing.
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    Jun 09, 2008 9:38 PM GMT
    I don't think I was overreacting earlier at all. I found the opinion that I quoted above to be really quite offensive and I think I made that distaste emphatic.

    Regrettably, I did not have time to leave a detailed response this morning before I went to work, which is unfortunate because a certain thread may have been avoided. I invariably take time to think before posting, and the question of Pride is such a broad one that it requires circumspection.

    In the hopes of illuminating the question, I have created a new thread which I hope might be a more positive place to discuss the merits of Pride.