The unspoken divide

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    Jun 25, 2012 3:30 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    freedomisntfree said
    nanidesukedo said
    TropicalMark said
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)
    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.
    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the right. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the right from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    Mirrors suck, dont they?


    What you get at on here, Mark, is what irks me about the conservative members on here. They sit around and play innocent victim constantly - they make these long, drawn out posts about how there is lack of civility from other people and that intellectual discourse isn't welcome - when they, among all the people on Real jock, are the ones most doing what they accuse and bemoan others of doing. I mean, I don't see our members going around and creating threads meant specifically to chastise a particular member of the board and then, even long after that thread has died, bumping it.

    Above the tactics which you bitch and moan about, guys? Hardly. You are the source of it.


    You know .... that's precisely what I would say about your side. So now what?


    I don't see us making posts about how posters shouldn't be discouraged by the evil, mean, and terrible conservatives and then espousing how amazing our values and characters are, stating our innocence of all intellectual dishonesty and lack of character over and over and over again.


    You know .... that's precisely what I would say about your side. So now what?
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    Jun 25, 2012 3:37 AM GMT
    TigerTim saidI was very interested in this article about the generational divide in political opinions:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/opinion/sunday/the-generation-gap-is-back.html?ref=opinion

    We see this a lot on RealJock—practically all of the right wing posters are old. Given the extent to which that generation has fucked up the country, is it time to give the fat cat over 40s a heart attack?




    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Even though I am very close to 60 my self, and I am liberal leaning on most issues,

    I have to agree with you, GET RID OF THESE OLD GEEZERS, their excuse for staying in political power is usually over their experience, I think its just an excuse to save the status quo, which to my way of thinking is a grose failure on every front !!!
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    Jun 25, 2012 4:04 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    nanidesukedo said
    freedomisntfree said
    nanidesukedo said
    TropicalMark said
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)
    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.
    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the right. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the right from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    Mirrors suck, dont they?


    What you get at on here, Mark, is what irks me about the conservative members on here. They sit around and play innocent victim constantly - they make these long, drawn out posts about how there is lack of civility from other people and that intellectual discourse isn't welcome - when they, among all the people on Real jock, are the ones most doing what they accuse and bemoan others of doing. I mean, I don't see our members going around and creating threads meant specifically to chastise a particular member of the board and then, even long after that thread has died, bumping it.

    Above the tactics which you bitch and moan about, guys? Hardly. You are the source of it.


    You know .... that's precisely what I would say about your side. So now what?


    I don't see us making posts about how posters shouldn't be discouraged by the evil, mean, and terrible conservatives and then espousing how amazing our values and characters are, stating our innocence of all intellectual dishonesty and lack of character over and over and over again.


    You know .... that's precisely what I would say about your side. So now what?


    It's best not to say anything. icon_smile.gif
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    Jun 25, 2012 3:45 PM GMT
    socalfitness said

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)


    Aw I think that was a compliment! Thanks socalfitness!!
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    Jun 25, 2012 11:20 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    socalfitness said

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)


    Aw I think that was a compliment! Thanks socalfitness!!

    You're welcome. It was. I didn't want you to think I was referring to you when I was commenting on some folks with degrees. I remember a discussion months ago involving a book that I referenced. You were highly negative about it but you had read it and made specific points. I agreed with some, disagreed with others, but it was a very civil discussion. Others resort to personal name calling. Aside from different degrees of maturity which is the main factor, you had specific knowledge that you brought to the table.
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    Jun 25, 2012 11:26 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidI was very interested in this article about the generational divide in political opinions:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/opinion/sunday/the-generation-gap-is-back.html?ref=opinion

    We see this a lot on RealJock—practically all of the right wing posters are old. Given the extent to which that generation has fucked up the country, is it time to give the fat cat over 40s a heart attack?
    I'm over 40 and only vote for candidates that express sentiment for equal rights.

    Lately it's been Democratic candidates that do that. If Romney expressed the same sentiment, I'd probably vote for him.

    In other words, I feel that ALL Presidents are only looking out for their own pocketbooks, and don't really give a fuck about the "pauper's" (our) economy. The poorer we are, the richer they are. There's no way to vote greed out of the White House. All we can do is vote for someone who'll allow all us po folks to have the same rights.
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    Jun 26, 2012 12:44 AM GMT
    I'm 63 (how did I get here?). I started out pretty conservative, but the older I get the more liberal I seem to become.

    Some of it has to do with knowing my own capacity for making mistakes or doing the wrong thing - which makes me less condemning of others.

    Part of it is growing into enough security that I don't feel threatened by difference - and by having seen how some kinds of conservatism seems just to want to look down on others. I've been at the receiving end, and I don't care to pass it on.

    And part of it comes from having done pretty well, and feeling that I can share some of that; having had a hand up, I feel it's my duty to pass the helping hand one. We're all it it together.

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    Jun 26, 2012 12:53 AM GMT
    tazzari saidI'm 63 (how did I get here?). I started out pretty conservative, but the older I get the more liberal I seem to become.


    Actually its your experience, your intelligence and your common sense telling you that the party of our youth was hijacked and definitely NOT what we as humans stand for. You always had those 'liberal"(if you want to call it that. I call it common sense and compassion for your fellow man) feelings/beliefs.