Minorities and homosexuality

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    Jul 06, 2012 5:53 AM GMT
    Just because it is hard to come out when you're a minority doesn't mean that it isn't possible, even if it requires a little more sacrifice. That said, I think it is unfair to label someone (from any minority, rural community, etc.) as a "pussy excuse." Fact is, being a minority within a minority is hard. I would give some slack to guys who feel that they cannot come out.
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    Jul 06, 2012 5:53 AM GMT
    TheOmegaMan saidHow is this thread racist?


    "You have to understand that many gay white guys (there are exceptions) have it easy as a general rule because they can hide their gayness underneath their white skin in this country. "

    This is loaded with insinuations I would rather not argue about anymore because society is already well off to know better than to read into this remark.
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    Jul 06, 2012 6:30 AM GMT
    YJacket said
    JamieJfromtheA saidWell I posted something similar like this...so I get where you are coming from ...


    The very least you can do is refer to your own experiences with certain Black people. The nonsensical generalizations are unnecessary.


    I never made a generalization, and if/when i did, i said it was just because of frustration and I know all of it isnt true.

    don't correct me unless you truly understand what I am saying, which you clearly do not.
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    Jul 06, 2012 6:31 AM GMT
    Sustenance said
    orthojock said[quote]

    I really hate to say it because I am not socially conservative, but you need to get off the pity pot. Society has given you your break and you will be respected by all creeds for taking responsibility for your freedom at the same time of being accountable for your actions.
    .icon_rolleyes.gif


    Hilariously absurd!!!! Yes, please keep posting so you can continue digging your proverbial hole with your non social-conservative shovel. Looks like I took a break just in time to see this get really ugly.

    I'll stand by to fill in the hole with my special shovel with special powers that was given to me by society b/c I identify as an african american male. icon_evil.gificon_rolleyes.gif




    I'm not the one here who is provoking the drama... I find it quite humorous though. I see three black guys trying to manipulate gay white guys into believing they should give more than Affirmative Action already has because they found a loop hole. I suppose now everyone is prejudice again? Get over it. To tell you the truth, nobody is going to give you the shirt off their back to your double wammy demands when they have earned it. Do you find affirmative action as holy ground? I don't.[/quote]

    I'm sorry, let me make sure I clarify my position and emphasize that my reaction is to your generalization that all minorities are benefiting from affirmative action.

    What was posted in regards to whites being able to "they can hide their gayness underneath their white skin in this country" is complete and utter bullshit! Gay people regardless of race must face a tidal wave of unecessary criticism and impediments to succeed if they are completely out. But let's not be foolish and assume that just because someone is gay means he/she cannot also be racist. To assume such a proof to be true is asinine and only predictor of ones general myopic outlook on social relations. If you truly believe this then you had your head under a big a$$ proverbial boulder with your eyes closed and ear buds on with "Kumbaya" blasting loudly during the prop 8 issue.

    My issue with your idiotic post is the other generalization you made regarding being given two free tickets to achieve my freedom as a black male. With this statement (as well as with your response to my post) I assumed you were also making a tired generalization regarding a dependence on aff action to become successful. Sure, that policy was discriminatory! However, please understand your generalization will make others assume you are that social conservative you say you are not...i.e. it makes you appear as if your intellect is limited by your ignorance.

    I and many others have been able to succeed and out perform people (like you) without it. To make such a generalization is a bit "birther-esque" in terms of thought process if you ask me.

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    Jul 06, 2012 6:43 AM GMT
    orthojock said
    Sustenance said
    orthojock said[quote]

    I really hate to say it because I am not socially conservative, but you need to get off the pity pot. Society has given you your break and you will be respected by all creeds for taking responsibility for your freedom at the same time of being accountable for your actions.
    .icon_rolleyes.gif


    Hilariously absurd!!!! Yes, please keep posting so you can continue digging your proverbial hole with your non social-conservative shovel. Looks like I took a break just in time to see this get really ugly.

    I'll stand by to fill in the hole with my special shovel with special powers that was given to me by society b/c I identify as an african american male. icon_evil.gificon_rolleyes.gif




    I'm not the one here who is provoking the drama... I find it quite humorous though. I see three black guys trying to manipulate gay white guys into believing they should give more than Affirmative Action already has because they found a loop hole. I suppose now everyone is prejudice again? Get over it. To tell you the truth, nobody is going to give you the shirt off their back to your double wammy demands when they have earned it. Do you find affirmative action as holy ground? I don't.


    I'm sorry, let me make sure I clarify my position and emphasize that my reaction is to your generalization that all minorities are benefiting from affirmative action.

    What was posted in regards to whites being able to "they can hide their gayness underneath their white skin in this country" is complete and utter bullshit! Gay people regardless of race must face a tidal wave of unecessary criticism and impediments to succeed if they are completely out. But let's not be foolish and assume that just because someone is gay means he/she cannot also be racist. To assume such a proof to be true is asinine and only predictor of ones general myopic outlook on social relations. If you truly believe this then you had your head under a big a$$ proverbial boulder with your eyes closed and ear buds on with "Kumbaya" blasting loudly.

    My issue with your idiotic post is the other generalization you made regarding being given two free tickets to achieve my freedom as a black male. With this statement (as well as with your response to my post) I assumed you were also making a tired generalization regarding a dependence on aff action to become successful. Sure, that policy was discriminatory! However, please understand your generalization is ignorant.

    I and many others have been able to succeed and out perform people (like you) without it. To make such a generalization is a bit "birther-esque" in terms of thought process if you ask me.

    [/quote]

    Of course affirmative action is not enough and "gay white men" have it easy. Enjoy your debate with yourself... Tootles.
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    Jul 06, 2012 6:48 AM GMT
    The only thing that sucks about being minority and gay is when guys say, "oh I'm not into Latin " most of the time without even seeing a facepic of me. That response says the color of my skin is the deciding factor for talking to me further
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    Jul 06, 2012 6:49 AM GMT
    And you continue to dig your grave...
    dunce.jpg


    You can't treat stupid! But I if I could I would at least nominate you for a future Darwin award b/c clearly something tells me you are dumb enough to potentially win it.


    Well...looks like I've been paged in the nick of time. Off to learn and help save lives.
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    Jul 06, 2012 6:53 AM GMT
    orthojock saidAnd you continue to dig your grave...
    dunce.jpg


    You can't treat stupid! But I if I could I would at least nominate you for a future Darwin award b/c clearly something tells me you are dumb enough to potentially win it.


    Well...looks like I've been paged in the nick of time. Off to learn and help save lives.


    Ooooh, do I sense hostility? icon_lol.gif
  • YJacket

    Posts: 146

    Jul 06, 2012 6:53 AM GMT
    JamieJfromtheA said
    YJacket said
    JamieJfromtheA saidWell I posted something similar like this...so I get where you are coming from ...


    The very least you can do is refer to your own experiences with certain Black people. The nonsensical generalizations are unnecessary.


    I never made a generalization, and if/when i did, i said it was just because of frustration and I know all of it isnt true.

    don't correct me unless you truly understand what I am saying, which you clearly do not.


    You know you did, which is why you added this qualification. Stop throwing tantrums, and think about what you post before you click ``submit.'' I don't even want to quote the nonsense you wrote. Anybody who took it seriously would, by your own estimate of Black people, write off your comments as ``stupid.''
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    Jul 06, 2012 6:57 AM GMT
    YJacket said
    JamieJfromtheA said
    YJacket said
    JamieJfromtheA saidWell I posted something similar like this...so I get where you are coming from ...


    The very least you can do is refer to your own experiences with certain Black people. The nonsensical generalizations are unnecessary.


    I never made a generalization, and if/when i did, i said it was just because of frustration and I know all of it isnt true.

    don't correct me unless you truly understand what I am saying, which you clearly do not.


    You know you did, which is why you added this qualification. Stop throwing tantrums, and think about what you post before you click ``submit.'' I don't even want to quote the nonsense you wrote. Anybody who took it seriously would, by your own estimate of Black people, write off your comments as ``stupid.''


    so tell me what I said, that was nonsense..so i can make you look like an complete idiot.

    Because you will find that there is nothing I state, that cannot be backed up.

    also the person who started the topic agreed with me, who is also black.

    "anyway, African Americans are stupid. I am sorry but as a WHOLE we suck. No I am not a reverse racist, but it is somewhat true. I am just upset so my exaggeration is bigger."

    These were my words from my first post in this topic, I said I exaggerated, and I said..somewhat true...which implies I know what im saying is not 100 percent, just out of frustration.

    Like i said, if your going to read and quote me, make sure you know what I am saying.



    "Awaits" reply.

    btw are you even black???
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    Jul 06, 2012 7:13 AM GMT
    creature saidIt's hard in any community where the people are socially conservative. Gay whites living in small farming communities are probably surrounded by the same hostile attitudes.


    I was born in a farming community in the Aussie bush in the 1960s, and i came out at a young age, and paid a price. But I did not steep down no matter what they did to me. Now I look back and am happy I did it my way, and i can hold my head high, as in today's Oz child abuses come lower than poofters.
  • YJacket

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    Jul 06, 2012 7:14 AM GMT
    JamieJfromtheA said..

    so tell me what I said, that was nonsense..so i can make you look like an complete idiot.

    Because you will find that there is nothing I state, that cannot be backed up.

    also the person who started the topic agreed with me, who is also black.

    "anyway, African Americans are stupid. I am sorry but as a WHOLE we suck. No I am not a reverse racist, but it is somewhat true. I am just upset so my exaggeration is bigger."

    These were my words from my first post in this topic, I said I exaggerated, and I said..somewhat true...which implies I know what im saying is not 100 percent, just out of frustration.

    Like i said, if your going to read and quote me, make sure you know what I am saying.



    "Awaits" reply.

    btw are you even black???

    .


    Jot this down, kid: ``I'm Black and another Black person agrees with me'' is not an argument.

    You yourself highlighted part of the nonsense you posted. Like I said, stop throwing tantrums, and stop hiding behind equivocations.

    As to your question, I'm Black.
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    Jul 06, 2012 7:17 AM GMT
    Stuart, take your meds.
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    Jul 06, 2012 7:19 AM GMT
    Sustenance said
    creature saidIt's hard in any community where the people are socially conservative. Gay whites living in small farming communities are probably surrounded by the same hostile attitudes.


    This whole thread is racist.


    no it isn't. there's no such thing as reverse racism.
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    Jul 06, 2012 7:25 AM GMT
    I am not even going to argue with you anymore because it is my word vs yours, but i mentioned someone agreeing with me because you said blacks would write my comments off as stupid...funny...isnt that a generalization.

    anyway,

    here ya go.
    so here.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_culture_and_sexual_orientation
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down-low_(sexual_slang)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_homo
    http://www.afterellen.com/archive/ellen/Print/taboo.html
    http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-26/opinion/inam.lee.black.church_1_black-church-homosexuality-church-culture?_s=PM:OPINION
    http://www.rcgd.isr.umich.edu/prba/perspectives/springsummer2000/jbattle2.pdf
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/gay-and-lesbian-well-being/201010/african-american-gay-youth-and-their-parents-coping-double-st
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/gay-and-lesbian-well-being/201010/african-american-gay-youth-and-their-parents-coping-double-st
    http://thehnicreport.com/2007/03/27/%E2%80%9Cno-homo%E2%80%9D-black-boys-black-churches-and-the-stigma-of-being-gay/
    http://equallywed.com/conspiracy-of-silence-being-gay-in-the-black-community.html
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/obama-gay-marriage-black-church_n_1516272.html

    these are just a few links, studies, interviews etc out of the thousands..about how the African American community is harsh for gays african americans and such.

    So much that a term came out of it Down Low, and another term No Homo. based of fear, and secrets as well as homphpobia.

    Also the black church is a huge factor, so much that it is conflicted with Obama because he now supports gay marriage.

    Why don't you read and do some research and then get back to me.

    im done here.
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    Jul 06, 2012 7:37 AM GMT
    Hmm, the word "minority" to me doesnt actually describe the issue... I am from the Caribbean, so here, what in the US is minority to the me is the majority.. people of colour, be they black or Latino

    And is it harder for people of these backgrounds to come out? On the whole, I would say so, yes.... it is a cultural thing really.. same goes for people of the middle east, of africa, and many other cultures and backgrounds...

    What is most typical of these cultures is

    1) a strong propensity to condemn homosexuality on religious bases or societal norms

    combined with

    2) a strong sense of community and collectiivity, the needs of the group override the needs of the individual...

    This in contrast to northern European-based cultures, which instead of being collective, are individualist.... it is much worse for someone of a collective culture to "come out" because not only are they betraying the religious ruling, they are also overriding their culture's expectations of "sticking to the norm" of what the group needs in order to be considered a valid member of that group. If the culture is more individualist, only the first rule, the rule of condemning a certain practice, is being betrayed... in those individualist cultures, unlike the collectivist one, it is considered more ok for the person to "be themselves" and to "stick out" of the crowd instead of having to stick to group norms....

    Therefore, the combination of these two is especially dangerous for people who are "different" from the norm... Say for instance, you were gay in Thailand... here, we speak of a collective culture, but with general acceptance of different sexual practices.. because of the latter, a homosexual can easily come out in Thai society, since this person is not betraying a cultural norm

    Thus, I stipulate and emphasize, that it is the combination of those two factors which complicate things.... BOTH a religious or societal norm condemning homosexual practices AND a culture which strongly emphasises group norm behaviour, are what make it difficult for the person to come out.... Both of which are strongly present in African-American culture and many other of what are considered "minorities" in the USA

    If by contrast, a person has to deal with ONLY ONE of the above two situations, say a culture which is EITHER accepting of individual "norm-overriding" behaviour OR a culture which accepts homosexual practices as a norm, then it is much easier for somebody to come out.... since they are still conforming to at least ONE rule of their culture.. being either "different" or practicing a sexuality which is accepted anyway
  • YJacket

    Posts: 146

    Jul 06, 2012 7:44 AM GMT
    JamieJfromtheA said.... these are just a few links, studies, interviews etc out of the thousands..about how the African American community is harsh for gays african americans and such.

    So much that a term came out of it Down Low, and another term No Homo. based of fear, and secrets as well as homphpobia.

    Also the black church is a huge factor, so much that it is conflicted with Obama because he now supports gay marriage.

    Why don't you read and do some research and then get back to me.

    im done here.


    You were pretty much done after your first paragraph in the thread. You read as well as you write.
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    Jul 06, 2012 8:00 AM GMT
    GreenHopper saidHmm, the word "minority" to me doesnt actually describe the issue... I am from the Caribbean, so here, what in the US is minority to the me is the majority.. people of colour, be they black or Latino

    And is it harder for people of these backgrounds to come out? On the whole, I would say so, yes.... it is a cultural thing really.. same goes for people of the middle east, of africa, and many other cultures and backgrounds...

    What is most typical of these cultures is

    1) a strong propensity to condemn homosexuality on religious bases or societal norms

    combined with

    2) a strong sense of community and collectiivity, the needs of the group override the needs of the individual...

    This in contrast to northern European-based cultures, which instead of being collective, are individualist.... it is much worse for someone of a collective culture to "come out" because not only are they betraying the religious ruling, they are also overriding their culture's expectations of "sticking to the norm" of what the group needs in order to be considered a valid member of that group. If the culture is more individualist, only the first rule, the rule of condemning a certain practice, is being betrayed... in those individualist cultures, unlike the collectivist one, it is considered more ok for the person to "be themselves" and to "stick out" of the crowd instead of having to stick to group norms....

    Therefore, the combination of these two is especially dangerous for people who are "different" from the norm... Say for instance, you were gay in Thailand... here, we speak of a collective culture, but with general acceptance of different sexual practices.. because of the latter, a homosexual can easily come out in Thai society, since this person is not betraying a cultural norm

    Thus, I stipulate and emphasize, that it is the combination of those two factors which complicate things.... BOTH a religious or societal norm condemning homosexual practices AND a culture which strongly emphasises group norm behaviour, are what make it difficult for the person to come out.... Both of which are strongly present in African-American culture and many other of what are considered "minorities" in the USA

    If by contrast, a person has to deal with ONLY ONE of the above two situations, say a culture which is EITHER accepting of individual "norm-overriding" behaviour OR a culture which accepts homosexual practices as a norm, then it is much easier for somebody to come out.... since they are still conforming to at least ONE rule of their culture.. being either "different" or practicing a sexuality which is accepted anyway


    Green Hopper have I told you how much a turn on you are!
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    Jul 06, 2012 8:12 AM GMT
    Sustenance saidI don't believe society should be balanced out in equality using a test tube of Scientific politics so I have a difficult time with the word minority... especially these days. The way I remember it, homosexuality was accepted by the black culture long before it was accepted by the white culture. I remember when I was young there were more black guys hitting on me then there were white and I can remember getting my face smashed numerous times for being homosexual. I had to adapt and what made it easier to adapt was noticing more and more white guys at the gay clubs. Personally, I could care less what color a guy is... I've played with them all; what I do care about is how "minority" thrives off the word "prejudice" which just creates more of a problem because gay people are the least prejudice people I know! I would hate to see all the bad politics brought into the gay community also. Peace.


    Gay people are the least prejudiced people you know????!!!!??? What fucking world are you living in? I've encountered more racism from gay men than I ever have from straight people. Wish I lived wherever it is that you're living!
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    Jul 06, 2012 11:41 PM GMT
    GreenHopper saidHmm, the word "minority" to me doesnt actually describe the issue... I am from the Caribbean, so here, what in the US is minority to the me is the majority.. people of colour, be they black or Latino

    And is it harder for people of these backgrounds to come out? On the whole, I would say so, yes.... it is a cultural thing really.. same goes for people of the middle east, of africa, and many other cultures and backgrounds...

    What is most typical of these cultures is

    1) a strong propensity to condemn homosexuality on religious bases or societal norms

    combined with

    2) a strong sense of community and collectiivity, the needs of the group override the needs of the individual...

    This in contrast to northern European-based cultures, which instead of being collective, are individualist.... it is much worse for someone of a collective culture to "come out" because not only are they betraying the religious ruling, they are also overriding their culture's expectations of "sticking to the norm" of what the group needs in order to be considered a valid member of that group. If the culture is more individualist, only the first rule, the rule of condemning a certain practice, is being betrayed... in those individualist cultures, unlike the collectivist one, it is considered more ok for the person to "be themselves" and to "stick out" of the crowd instead of having to stick to group norms....

    Therefore, the combination of these two is especially dangerous for people who are "different" from the norm... Say for instance, you were gay in Thailand... here, we speak of a collective culture, but with general acceptance of different sexual practices.. because of the latter, a homosexual can easily come out in Thai society, since this person is not betraying a cultural norm

    Thus, I stipulate and emphasize, that it is the combination of those two factors which complicate things.... BOTH a religious or societal norm condemning homosexual practices AND a culture which strongly emphasises group norm behaviour, are what make it difficult for the person to come out.... Both of which are strongly present in African-American culture and many other of what are considered "minorities" in the USA

    If by contrast, a person has to deal with ONLY ONE of the above two situations, say a culture which is EITHER accepting of individual "norm-overriding" behaviour OR a culture which accepts homosexual practices as a norm, then it is much easier for somebody to come out.... since they are still conforming to at least ONE rule of their culture.. being either "different" or practicing a sexuality which is accepted anyway


    Completely agree.
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    Jul 07, 2012 12:14 AM GMT
    It seems the foundation of arguments here are based on the idea that white people are more accepting of gay people than other cultures are; that is so absurd.
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    Jul 07, 2012 3:22 AM GMT
    TheOmegaMan saidIs there a sticky about this? I think there should be.

    Do you feel that minorities have a considerably harder time coming out or being open in their communities?

    If so, why do you think this is?

    I'm black and I come from the ghetto of Baltimore City and being gay here is NOT acceptable in the slightest. I'm going to assume it has something to do with the high Baptist culture of many black Americans.

    What's your take on it?


    I think it's generally harder to be a racial minority within a gay "community" than it is to be gay within a racial minority "community. I've experienced more overt racism or racially-charged prejudice from other gay people (men and women) than I've experienced homophobia from other people of color. Though to be fair, my race (and all its associated baggage) is more readily apparent to people than my sexuality.
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    Jul 07, 2012 3:28 AM GMT
    I'm a bisexual male, so I'm nonexistent.
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    Jul 07, 2012 3:52 AM GMT
    Bromoflexual said
    TheOmegaMan saidIs there a sticky about this? I think there should be.

    Do you feel that minorities have a considerably harder time coming out or being open in their communities?

    If so, why do you think this is?

    I'm black and I come from the ghetto of Baltimore City and being gay here is NOT acceptable in the slightest. I'm going to assume it has something to do with the high Baptist culture of many black Americans.

    What's your take on it?


    I think it's generally harder to be a racial minority within a gay "community" than it is to be gay within a racial minority "community. I've experienced more overt racism or racially-charged prejudice from other gay people (men and women) than I've experienced homophobia from other people of color. Though to be fair, my race (and all its associated baggage) is more readily apparent to people than my sexuality.


    I completely agree with you.
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    Jul 07, 2012 3:55 AM GMT
    Although we are both men of color are experience can be extremely different based on region, community, religion, wealth etc. same applys to being gay.