German researchers: tree-rings suggest climate was warmer in Roman and Medieval times than it is now ...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 13, 2012 5:59 AM GMT
    GreenHopper said
    YVRguy saidI have little doubt that significant scientific discoveries will be made in the next several hundred years that will impact energy production reducing our reliance on fossil fuels before they run out. As they say, necessity is the Mother of Invention. The real problem, as alluded to above, is quite simply overpopulation, particularly in the third world. Unchecked population growth is a far greater threat to our world than fossil fuel consumption.



    Hmmm tough... third world population growth does not consume anywhere near the amounts of resources that the first world does... the USA alone is 5% of the worlds population, but consumes 20% of its resources


    So? People always cite numbers like these as though they have some significance. As an example, American's can afford to buy 20% of the cars on the world market say. That doesn't mean there will be a shortage of cars in 10 years. It means as developing nations progress and their citizens have more disposable income, more cars will be produced for the people that want them. If for some reason we run out of the supplies to build cars, there will be no sudden halt to life as we know it. The price will slowly climb as resources become more scarce and more people will take the bus. The US' share of the resources it consumes will equally diminish.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 13, 2012 6:05 AM GMT
    China has a billion people who are becoming relatively wealthy at a stunning rate. I well remember seeing traffic pictures of Beijing where everyone rode bikes. Now the Chinese are buying up the oil sands in Alberta (and oil fields elsewhere) as fast as they can. It's a simple fact that they , along with every else in the 3rd world, want to consume as much as the people in wealthier countries. It's only a matter of time before resource consumption really starts to escalate at geometric levels.

    EDIT: Clearly U of T grads think alike, laugh!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 13, 2012 6:13 AM GMT
    YVRguy saidChina has a billion people who are becoming relatively wealthy at a stunning rate. I well remember seeing traffic pictures of Beijing where everyone rode bikes. Now the Chinese are buying up the oil sands in Alberta (and oil fields elsewhere) as fast as they can. It's a simple fact that they , along with every else in the 3rd world, want to consume as much as the people in wealthier countries. It's only a matter of time before resource consumption really starts to escalate at geometric levels.

    EDIT: Clearly U of T grads think alike, laugh!


    Difficult to put this all under that banner of "population growth in the third world"... and actually illustrates my point that third world growth is not the main culprit, but first world consumption patterns...

    China is not the worlds biggest grower, it has implemented its one-child-policy with stunning success rates to curb population growth... not to mention when you say they want to "consume like the first world". that basically establishes the fact that the problem is really first world rates of consumption... if China did not seek to increase its consumption to first world rates... it would not be as big of a problem.. but it is seeking to consume like the first world.. and as you say, THAT is the real culprit.. once it gets to that level, it can not even any longer be considered third world

    Hence, third world population growth cannot really be considered the main problem..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 13, 2012 6:15 AM GMT
    uoft23 said
    GreenHopper said
    YVRguy saidI have little doubt that significant scientific discoveries will be made in the next several hundred years that will impact energy production reducing our reliance on fossil fuels before they run out. As they say, necessity is the Mother of Invention. The real problem, as alluded to above, is quite simply overpopulation, particularly in the third world. Unchecked population growth is a far greater threat to our world than fossil fuel consumption.



    Hmmm tough... third world population growth does not consume anywhere near the amounts of resources that the first world does... the USA alone is 5% of the worlds population, but consumes 20% of its resources


    So? People always cite numbers like these as though they have some significance. As an example, American's can afford to buy 20% of the cars on the world market say. That doesn't mean there will be a shortage of cars in 10 years. It means as developing nations progress and their citizens have more disposable income, more cars will be produced for the people that want them. If for some reason we run out of the supplies to build cars, there will be no sudden halt to life as we know it. The price will slowly climb as resources become more scarce and more people will take the bus. The US' share of the resources it consumes will equally diminish.


    ehm, what are you talking about? we are talking about consumption and its effects on the atmosphere.. i have no idea what you are talking about there.. you have not even addressed that issue.. so obviously my numbers have significance, since they are of importance to the topic at hand...

    Your entire post on the other hand... bears no relation at all to the topic, so its basically your post thats completely insignificant....

    if you are trying to assume that with your explanation, consumption will finally decrease, it missed the mark... your whole post assumes an increase in consumption, hence an increase in atmospheric changes, hence more climate change

    #made_your_post_significant_no_need_to_thank_me
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 13, 2012 6:17 AM GMT
    uoft23 said
    GreenHopper said
    YVRguy said.




    If for some reason we run out of the supplies to build cars, there will be no sudden halt to life as we know it. The price will slowly climb as resources become more scarce and more people will take the bus. The US' share of the resources it consumes will equally diminish.


    To be fair, though, your analogy works with cars. What about food though? As food resources become scarce we can't expect people to choose an eco-friendly food replacement.

    ....since Soylent Green hasn't been invented yet!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 13, 2012 6:23 AM GMT
    GreenHopper said
    uoft23 said
    GreenHopper said
    YVRguy saidI have little doubt that significant scientific discoveries will be made in the next several hundred years that will impact energy production reducing our reliance on fossil fuels before they run out. As they say, necessity is the Mother of Invention. The real problem, as alluded to above, is quite simply overpopulation, particularly in the third world. Unchecked population growth is a far greater threat to our world than fossil fuel consumption.



    Hmmm tough... third world population growth does not consume anywhere near the amounts of resources that the first world does... the USA alone is 5% of the worlds population, but consumes 20% of its resources


    So? People always cite numbers like these as though they have some significance. As an example, American's can afford to buy 20% of the cars on the world market say. That doesn't mean there will be a shortage of cars in 10 years. It means as developing nations progress and their citizens have more disposable income, more cars will be produced for the people that want them. If for some reason we run out of the supplies to build cars, there will be no sudden halt to life as we know it. The price will slowly climb as resources become more scarce and more people will take the bus. The US' share of the resources it consumes will equally diminish.


    ehm, what are you talking about? we are talking about consumption and its effects on the atmosphere.. i have no idea what you are talking about there.. you have not even addressed that issue.. so obviously my numbers have significance, since they are of importance to the topic at hand...

    Your entire post on the other hand... bears no relation at all to the topic, so its basically your post thats completely insignificant


    Let me rephrase it then because I was only commenting on your use of that statistic. You say the US consumes 20% of the world's resources, as though that is a finite and fixed amount. The US consumes 20% of the resources we CURRENTLY produce. As developing countries can afford more consumption, supply will INCREASE . The relative or percentage amount the US consumes will drop but the actual amount will probably continue to increase.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 13, 2012 6:26 AM GMT
    I'd agree there are some limited resources, but increased demand increases cost of living. Western nations have seen decreasing birth rates for decades because of the cost of raising a family. I don't believe we're going to run out of food. Food will increase in price along with some other things and slow our birth rate just like it has all throughout history.