Who will you vote for Obama or Romney?

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    Aug 02, 2012 7:40 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Workout_Time said
    freedomisntfree saidRomney !!!!


    I hope you are joking, Obama is pretty terrible but Romney is much worse. He will also be an embarrasment internationally. Also being gay Obama will improve your rights, Romney will work with the people that just want you dead


    "joking" because you and I disagree? So you can't be happy with just disagreeing ? And then you wonder why I support Romney? Although he’s a bit on the liberal side of things for me?



    No I hope you are joking because fiscally Romney is no different from Obama, except he could be much worse, and socially he IS much worse. I said hope because I hope that Obama wins, while realizing he may very well lose as many people find Obama to be a disaster (me included) and support Romney.
    Also, your response, while trying to be somehow backhanded makes little logical sense as I cant understand how me not being happy to disagree with you would make you support Romney... seems like a very childish way to choose your politics...
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    Aug 02, 2012 7:45 PM GMT
    Obama.
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    Aug 02, 2012 7:57 PM GMT
    Workout_Time said
    freedomisntfree said
    Workout_Time said
    freedomisntfree saidRomney !!!!


    I hope you are joking, Obama is pretty terrible but Romney is much worse. He will also be an embarrasment internationally. Also being gay Obama will improve your rights, Romney will work with the people that just want you dead


    "joking" because you and I disagree? So you can't be happy with just disagreeing ? And then you wonder why I support Romney? Although he’s a bit on the liberal side of things for me?



    No I hope you are joking because fiscally Romney is no different from Obama, except he could be much worse, and socially he IS much worse. I said hope because I hope that Obama wins, while realizing he may very well lose as many people find Obama to be a disaster (me included) and support Romney.
    Also, your response, while trying to be somehow backhanded makes little logical sense as I cant understand how me not being happy to disagree with you would make you support Romney... seems like a very childish way to choose your politics...


    Let's see, we disagree so its gotta be because I'm joking?

    " very childish "

    Name calling will get you nowhere.

    Romney may be a bit of a liberal, but I'll still vote for him and wish him the best.
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    Aug 02, 2012 8:50 PM GMT
    swimguychicago said
    There are also surgeons who puncture the wrong body part. Frankly, they aren't the guys to listen to!

    First, I believe that the article you cite was on the Opinion Page.

    Second, even if the far right monetarists who make the argument about the stimulus are correct about the merits of the stimulus, that in no way invalidates Obama's saving the economy from collapse by continuing TARP and TARF! Nor does it show that the extra regulations Obama wants for the financial industry are unnecessary. Rather, the fact that Bush's policies led to Dow 6,500 (now 13,000) and chaos demonstrates how necessary change is.

    On the foreign policy front, Obama got bin laden.

    Lastly, I suspect that Obama is MUCH more sympathetic to gays than Norman Mitt, who's only openly gay campaign worker resigned.

    There are economists with different opinions. The economists who say the Obama plans are working are not the ones to listen to.

    The DOW at the end of the Bush administration resulted from several factors, including a domino effect of Democrats urging loans to people unqualified.

    Regarding foreign policy, the totality is just a bit more complicated than bin Laden. BTW - reports are his foreign policy "expert" Valerie Jarrett got him to squash the plans three times. Both CIA Directors said information obtained via techniques Obama opposed played a major role in getting bin Laden. If you really want to delve in foreign policies beyond the superficial, this thread is good reading:

    Washington Post: Obama’s foreign initiatives have been failures - The biggest failures, his own ideas
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2557191/
  • metta

    Posts: 54293

    Aug 02, 2012 9:18 PM GMT
    Obama, Romney and their foreign policy highlights

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2012/Aug/02/obama__romney_and_their_foreign_policy_highlights.html

    IRAN

    Both say Iran cannot be allowed to gain the capability to build nuclear weapons.

    Obama opposes a near-term military strike on Iran, either by the U.S. or by Israel, to sabotage nuclear facilities that could be misused to produce a nuclear weapon, preferring sanctions and negotiation for now. But he reserves the right to conclude that only a military strike can stop Iran from getting the bomb. Romney appears to present Iran as a clearer U.S. military threat and has spoken in more permissive terms about Israel's right to act, without explicitly approving of such a step. "Of course you take military action" if sanctions and internal opposition fail to dissuade Tehran from making a nuclear weapon, he has said.

    AFGHANISTAN

    Obama and Romney are on the same page in planning for an end to combat operations in 2014, the likely outcome no matter who wins in November.

    Romney has quarreled with the pace and scope of the withdrawal since early in the Republican primary campaign while recently making clear his endorsement of the 2014 end point. He says, though, he would ultimately be guided by conditions on the ground and the advice of commanders, perhaps making his deadline softer than Obama's. But the president, too, is capable of adapting to developments in Afghanistan. The bottom line is that, barring an extraordinary turn of events, neither candidate has the taste to carry on the war beyond 2014.

    RUSSIA

    Romney has branded Russia the "No. 1 geopolitical foe" of the U.S., drawing a rhetorical line at odds with Obama's effort to improve relations that deteriorated in the previous administration. What this distinction means in practice is uncertain.

    Obama's work to improve US-Russia relations _ the administration's cliche is to "reset" them _ has been overlaid with new tensions, over Syria and more, as well as some successes, such as the negotiation of the New START agreement reducing nuclear arsenals in both countries.

    Romney pledges to review that agreement, although actually backing out is almost unimaginable, and he says he would help Central Asian and European states become less dependent on Russian energy as a way to check Moscow's expansionist behavior. He also proposes encouraging civil-society exchanges with Russians to counter increasingly "authoritarian" practices of the government. The Obama White House, too, has voiced worry about a backtracking of democracy in Russia and sharply criticized a new law requiring non-governmental groups that get foreign money and engage in political activity to register as foreign agents.

    SYRIA

    Both candidates say President Bashar Assad must leave power. Both stop short of committing U.S. forces to making him go.

    Obama declined to repeat the Libya air power commitment for the Syrian opposition, instead seeking to build international consensus toward the goal of persuading Assad to leave and to press Russia and China to stop shielding his government from international sanctions. The Obama administration placed financial sanctions on many top members of the Syrian government as an additional pressure tactic. Romney has spoken in favor of covert action by the U.S. and regional allies in Syria while saying "the right course is not military" intervention by the U.S.

    ISRAEL

    Romney has aligned himself closely with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and sought to exploit the sense that relations with Israel are shaky under Obama. He pledges more military assistance to Israel and agreed with Israel's position that Jerusalem is Israel's capital, disregarding the Palestinians' claim to the eastern sector, annexed by Israel in 1967 in a move that is not internationally recognized. This contrasts with U.S. policy that the city's designation is a matter for negotiation between the Jewish state and Palestinians. But Romney has not committed to moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv, saying only that he is open to that.

    Obama has chastised Israel for continuing to build housing settlements in disputed areas and has pressed both sides to begin a new round of peace talks based on the land borders established after the 1967 Arab-Israeli conflict. He's also signed a law to expand military and civilian cooperation with Israel. The law affirms U.S. support for negotiating the establishment of a Palestinian state, reflecting a bipartisan consensus in the U.S.

    CHINA

    Romney says he would brand China as a currency manipulator, a step that could lead to broad trade sanctions if talks did not resolve the dispute. A country's artificially low currency can give it a disproportionate trade advantage by making its exports cheaper. Obama has refused to cite China for currency manipulation, fearing a trade war, instead pressing China diplomatically to lets its currency rise. But his administration has aggressively brought unfair-trade cases against China to the World Trade Organization.

    Romney also proposes more military capabilities in the Pacific to challenge Beijing's growing influence in East Asia.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 02, 2012 11:46 PM GMT
    socalfitness said

    * Yes, I know military folks also supported the treaty for military reasons. Obama supported it for its wealth redistribution features.
    Yeah, good thing you included a morsel of truth.icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 02, 2012 11:48 PM GMT
    metta8 saidObama, Romney and their foreign policy highlights

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2012/Aug/02/obama__romney_and_their_foreign_policy_highlights.html

    IRAN

    Both say Iran cannot be allowed to gain the capability to build nuclear weapons.

    Obama opposes a near-term military strike on Iran, either by the U.S. or by Israel, to sabotage nuclear facilities that could be misused to produce a nuclear weapon, preferring sanctions and negotiation for now. But he reserves the right to conclude that only a military strike can stop Iran from getting the bomb. Romney appears to present Iran as a clearer U.S. military threat and has spoken in more permissive terms about Israel's right to act, without explicitly approving of such a step. "Of course you take military action" if sanctions and internal opposition fail to dissuade Tehran from making a nuclear weapon, he has said.

    AFGHANISTAN

    Obama and Romney are on the same page in planning for an end to combat operations in 2014, the likely outcome no matter who wins in November.

    Romney has quarreled with the pace and scope of the withdrawal since early in the Republican primary campaign while recently making clear his endorsement of the 2014 end point. He says, though, he would ultimately be guided by conditions on the ground and the advice of commanders, perhaps making his deadline softer than Obama's. But the president, too, is capable of adapting to developments in Afghanistan. The bottom line is that, barring an extraordinary turn of events, neither candidate has the taste to carry on the war beyond 2014.

    RUSSIA

    Romney has branded Russia the "No. 1 geopolitical foe" of the U.S., drawing a rhetorical line at odds with Obama's effort to improve relations that deteriorated in the previous administration. What this distinction means in practice is uncertain.

    Obama's work to improve US-Russia relations _ the administration's cliche is to "reset" them _ has been overlaid with new tensions, over Syria and more, as well as some successes, such as the negotiation of the New START agreement reducing nuclear arsenals in both countries.

    Romney pledges to review that agreement, although actually backing out is almost unimaginable, and he says he would help Central Asian and European states become less dependent on Russian energy as a way to check Moscow's expansionist behavior. He also proposes encouraging civil-society exchanges with Russians to counter increasingly "authoritarian" practices of the government. The Obama White House, too, has voiced worry about a backtracking of democracy in Russia and sharply criticized a new law requiring non-governmental groups that get foreign money and engage in political activity to register as foreign agents.

    SYRIA

    Both candidates say President Bashar Assad must leave power. Both stop short of committing U.S. forces to making him go.

    Obama declined to repeat the Libya air power commitment for the Syrian opposition, instead seeking to build international consensus toward the goal of persuading Assad to leave and to press Russia and China to stop shielding his government from international sanctions. The Obama administration placed financial sanctions on many top members of the Syrian government as an additional pressure tactic. Romney has spoken in favor of covert action by the U.S. and regional allies in Syria while saying "the right course is not military" intervention by the U.S.

    ISRAEL

    Romney has aligned himself closely with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and sought to exploit the sense that relations with Israel are shaky under Obama. He pledges more military assistance to Israel and agreed with Israel's position that Jerusalem is Israel's capital, disregarding the Palestinians' claim to the eastern sector, annexed by Israel in 1967 in a move that is not internationally recognized. This contrasts with U.S. policy that the city's designation is a matter for negotiation between the Jewish state and Palestinians. But Romney has not committed to moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv, saying only that he is open to that.

    Obama has chastised Israel for continuing to build housing settlements in disputed areas and has pressed both sides to begin a new round of peace talks based on the land borders established after the 1967 Arab-Israeli conflict. He's also signed a law to expand military and civilian cooperation with Israel. The law affirms U.S. support for negotiating the establishment of a Palestinian state, reflecting a bipartisan consensus in the U.S.

    CHINA

    Romney says he would brand China as a currency manipulator, a step that could lead to broad trade sanctions if talks did not resolve the dispute. A country's artificially low currency can give it a disproportionate trade advantage by making its exports cheaper. Obama has refused to cite China for currency manipulation, fearing a trade war, instead pressing China diplomatically to lets its currency rise. But his administration has aggressively brought unfair-trade cases against China to the World Trade Organization.

    Romney also proposes more military capabilities in the Pacific to challenge Beijing's growing influence in East Asia.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Add in the facts that Americans and their politicians don't have the balls to discuss about Netanyahu and Romney's shared Sugar Daddy Adelson and the Israeli NeoCons in our government pushing for Romney, there is plenty of reasons for people who really look hard for the facts to RUN FROM VOTING FOR ROMNEY. He's a dangerous Lobby Lap Dog.
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    Aug 03, 2012 1:23 AM GMT
    swimguychicago: I'm voting for Obama! I don't think he's flawless, but I think he has the right ideas for the economy and foreign policy (and I speak as an economist). I admit he could have done better on health care.

    jockfever: non-recovery, exploding budget deficits, crippling debt, the longest period of high unemployment since the Depression, no entitlement reform, anemic rates of economic growth, less energy at higher cost, de-industrialization via EPA regulatory fiat, socialized medicine, class-warfare demagoguery, endless growth of government...the triumph of jackass economics....and Obama zombies can't get enough of it.




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    Aug 03, 2012 1:40 AM GMT
    Gary Johnson is running under the Libertarian party... Not Independent.

    My vote goes to Gary. Fuck Romney.icon_evil.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 24058

    Aug 03, 2012 2:43 AM GMT
    For me, I am keeping an open mind until Romney's V.P. choice is announced and I hear the 3 debates. 2000 and 2004 were an easy choice for me with George Bush, but this year it is not so cut and dry -- for me anyway. The only thing that Romney could do that would secure my vote for sure, regardless of the debates, would be if he picks Conde´ Rice for his V.P. If only SHE were running for President.
  • metta

    Posts: 54293

    Aug 03, 2012 2:46 AM GMT
    ^
    the first lesbian president, & first female president...hmmmm

    I don't know where she would stand on the issues though.
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    Aug 03, 2012 3:15 AM GMT
    There really is no competition. Romney is not even a consideration. Had Huntsman been a choice this might be a bit more difficult. Romney would destroy this country socially and economically.


    Obama!
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    Aug 03, 2012 3:36 AM GMT
    Gary Johnson.

    Indiana is going red, so my vote won't matter anyway.
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    Aug 03, 2012 5:23 AM GMT
    creyente saidThere really is no competition. Romney is not even a consideration. Had Huntsman been a choice this might be a bit more difficult. Romney would destroy this country socially and economically.


    Obama!


    Sadly, you're right. Romney could.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 03, 2012 11:26 AM GMT
    As a gay man who cares about social issues
    who works in the medical field
    who believes in the Scientific Method
    Who likes to breathe clean air ..... and cares about environmental issues
    Who cares about monetary responsibility

    Until there is a Substantial change

    I WILL NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN
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    Aug 03, 2012 12:53 PM GMT
    Obama

    Romney is an arrogant elitist, who, let's not forget, led a group to cut the hair off a fellow student because Mitt didn't like the femmy style.

    He won't open up his tax records because...

    He tore down an immense house to build a bigger one. The garage is bigger than the old house, and it also has an elevator so the cars in his collection don't get...extra miles, driving in and out of the garage. ALL during a period when Americans are losing their homes and having trouble finding decent jobs.

    He's like an entitled French aristocrat before the revolution.

    Is this mans portrait snapping into focus for ya?
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    Aug 03, 2012 7:24 PM GMT
    n8698u saidObama

    Romney is an arrogant elitist, who, let's not forget, led a group to cut the hair off a fellow student because Mitt didn't like the femmy style.

    He won't open up his tax records because...

    He tore down an immense house to build a bigger one. The garage is bigger than the old house, and it also has an elevator so the cars in his collection don't get...extra miles, driving in and out of the garage. ALL during a period when Americans are losing their homes and having trouble finding decent jobs.

    He's like an entitled French aristocrat before the revolution.

    Is this mans portrait snapping into focus for ya?


    Uh, you didn't mention that he's worth more than $250 million, but literally said he wasn't concerned with the very poor. Talk about let them eat cake!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 03, 2012 7:48 PM GMT
    My household does hold an American vote, and since we care for America and it's people we want too help stop the pain and suffering endured under the Obama administration.
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    Aug 03, 2012 10:00 PM GMT
    swimguychicago saidUh, you didn't mention that he's worth more than $250 million, but literally said he wasn't concerned with the very poor. Talk about let them eat cake!

    Your bitter class envy is obvious as is your false taking his comment out of context. He said that because there were mechanisms in place to help the poor but not the middle class, his concern was focused on the middle class. You may disagree with that, but to say he is not concerned about the poor is dishonest. Typical crap from the left because the Obama economy is a failure. And if you are an economist and believe that not to be the case, then you are to economics as Trofim Lysenko is to biology.
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    Aug 03, 2012 10:44 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    swimguychicago saidUh, you didn't mention that he's worth more than $250 million, but literally said he wasn't concerned with the very poor. Talk about let them eat cake!

    Your bitter class envy is obvious as is your false taking his comment out of context. He said that because there were mechanisms in place to help the poor but not the middle class, his concern was focused on the middle class. You may disagree with that, but to say he is not concerned about the poor is dishonest. Typical crap from the left because the Obama economy is a failure. And if you are an economist and believe that not to be the case, then you are to economics as Trofim Lysenko is to biology.


    socalfitness,

    So can we put you down as 'UNDECIDED' ?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 03, 2012 11:30 PM GMT
    Anyone else but Obama. He's been a horrible president. Horrible!
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    Aug 03, 2012 11:37 PM GMT
    Buster57 saidAnyone else but Obama. He's been a horrible president. Horrible!


    icon_lol.gif
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    Aug 04, 2012 1:01 AM GMT
    GordonLee90232 said
    jockfever saidswimguychicago: I'm voting for Obama! I don't think he's flawless, but I think he has the right ideas for the economy and foreign policy (and I speak as an economist). I admit he could have done better on health care.

    jockfever: non-recovery, exploding budget deficits, crippling debt, the longest period of high unemployment since the Depression, no entitlement reform, anemic rates of economic growth, less energy at higher cost, de-industrialization via EPA regulatory fiat, socialized medicine, class-warfare demagoguery, endless growth of government...the triumph of jackass economics....and Obama zombies can't get enough of it.



    I think the person who wrote in the blue is correct about every thing that he wrote well I would not call people who believe in President Obama to be zombies but all the other things he wrote are true and I no longer consider my self a one issue gay guy and I am now leaning towards not voting for President Obama again because nothing has gotten better and things are worse now and I do not think he can keep blaming other people any more.








    The interesting thing Gordan is that jockfever described exactly what the republicans starting with Bush did to our country. Remember that Obama's administration in any one of the three years had more jobs created than all eight of Bush's administration. Some of you must not read about the facts that the Republicans have blocked everything Obama has tried to do, that wasn't a return to Bush policies that got us in this mess in the first place.Still in spite of all the repubs could do Obama's record in 3 years beats Bush's over 8 years. Read my friend, Read.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Aug 04, 2012 1:42 AM GMT
    realifedad said
    GordonLee90232 said
    jockfever saidswimguychicago: I'm voting for Obama! I don't think he's flawless, but I think he has the right ideas for the economy and foreign policy (and I speak as an economist). I admit he could have done better on health care.

    jockfever: non-recovery, exploding budget deficits, crippling debt, the longest period of high unemployment since the Depression, no entitlement reform, anemic rates of economic growth, less energy at higher cost, de-industrialization via EPA regulatory fiat, socialized medicine, class-warfare demagoguery, endless growth of government...the triumph of jackass economics....and Obama zombies can't get enough of it.



    I think the person who wrote in the blue is correct about every thing that he wrote well I would not call people who believe in President Obama to be zombies but all the other things he wrote are true and I no longer consider my self a one issue gay guy and I am now leaning towards not voting for President Obama again because nothing has gotten better and things are worse now and I do not think he can keep blaming other people any more.


    The interesting thing Gordan is that jockfever described exactly what the republicans starting with Bush did to our country. Remember that Obama's administration in any one of the three years had more jobs created than all eight of Bush's administration. Some of you must not read about the facts that the Republicans have blocked everything Obama has tried to do, that wasn't a return to Bush policies that got us in this mess in the first place.Still in spite of all the repubs could do Obama's record in 3 years beats Bush's over 8 years. Read my friend, Read.


    I don't expect those two to ever give an opinion based on reality. I swear this forum is cursed.
  • metta

    Posts: 54293

    Aug 04, 2012 4:54 AM GMT
    WhatAJock94111 said
    WhyWhySee saidI am sure the majority of American citizens are in the same boat as me, but I find the American electoral system extremely confusing!

    You don't directly vote for the presidential candidate, do you? Aren't you really making a suggestion that your elector vote for a candidate?


    Yep, you've got a pretty good understanding of it. Probably better than most Americans!


    Living in California...it is pretty much a given that Obama has this state...

    I have a friend that lives out in the boonies...read conservative area...and he tells me how they are getting all worked up telling people to vote Republican out there...lol

    Page 33 of the report:
    I looked at a poll today that showed that only 5% of gay men and 2% of lesbians in the US are voting for Romney.

    77% of gay men for Obama
    84% of lesbians for Obama

    And the rest are other candidates.


    Page 34:
    Approximately 1 in 4 gay men and lesbians plan to donate cash to the Obama campaign;
    1 in 5 already have. Overall about half say they they’ll donate cash, or volunteer at some point

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2576873