HIV woke me up to the fact that sex can be immoral and damaging

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    Aug 04, 2012 12:07 AM GMT
    It's interesting how many trolls on RJ have problems with the nebulous gay world and the nebulous gay lifestyle, involving HIV/AIDS, and having some religious slant

    #recurringthemes
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    Aug 04, 2012 12:10 AM GMT
    No. YOUR behavior MIGHT.. i say might..have been immoral and reckless. How you took sex. There are deeper issues involved that are particular to you but to make that judgement defeats yourself... and demonizes sex period for other people. people respond to sex in different ways.. sex and drugs.. or any vice... Your HIV sucks for you.. i'm sure but it's pretty unhealthy for you to leap to this conclusion. This can be said for men period who are positive... and they take the HIV stamp as leeway to fuck anything.. thats a subculture.. not the reality. That is a reaction that is deeply rooted in their neurosis.
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Aug 04, 2012 12:12 AM GMT
    OP. Even though it may not be put in the most elegant way I understand your point.
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    Aug 04, 2012 12:15 AM GMT
    MadeinMich saidOP. Even though it may not be put in the most elegant way I understand your point.


    I tried elegant before changing my handle to this new name. Elegant does not work. People here think I want something from them and to be rather blunt, I don't. This whole website is filled with the same viewpoints and all you ever find is that people break them down into tiny little pieces in order to feel secure about themselves. When you have been through death like I have, you discard all the little pieces and start paying closer attention to the bigger ones. Peace brother, I like you!
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    Aug 04, 2012 12:19 AM GMT
    More honey, less vinegar.
  • jim_sf

    Posts: 2094

    Aug 04, 2012 12:21 AM GMT
    Vitality said
    MadeinMich saidOP. Even though it may not be put in the most elegant way I understand your point.


    I tried elegant before changing my handle to this new name. Elegant does not work. People here think I want something from them and to be rather blunt, I don't. This whole website is filled with the same viewpoints and all you ever find is that people break them down into tiny little pieces in order to feel secure about themselves. When you have been through death like I have, you discard all the little pieces and start paying closer attention to the bigger ones. Peace brother, I like you!


    I thought you were leaving. Or does that not draw enough attention towards yourself?
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    Aug 04, 2012 1:01 AM GMT
    Vitality:
    HIV positive--"this is what will happen to you if you continue ignoring your intuition".

    As someone who has been HIV for over 10 years I do NOT find that HIV is this big accomplishment and where I found proof of this was in the decline of participants now attending AIDSwalk in my community.

    How about telling about some of the morals you learned in the process, or have you?

    StephenOABC:
    Why don't you see the push for domestic partnerships, civil unions and gay marriage something that would improve male homosexual morality?


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    Aug 04, 2012 1:09 AM GMT
    StephenOABC saidVitality:
    HIV positive--"this is what will happen to you if you continue ignoring your intuition".

    As someone who has been HIV for over 10 years I do NOT find that HIV is this big accomplishment and where I found proof of this was in the decline of participants now attending AIDSwalk in my community.

    How about telling about some of the morals you learned in the process, or have you?

    StephenOABC:
    Why don't you see the push for domestic partnerships, civil unions and gay marriage something that would improve male homosexual morality?




    StephenOABC:

    Perhaps because it is a Legal/Human Rights issue and YOU are in NO position to be judging or dictating "morality" on anyone else other than yourself???


    You DO realize that Stuart is about 10 hours away from yet another total melt-down and we ALL will begin recieving whacky vids in our e-mails....right????
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    Aug 04, 2012 1:24 AM GMT
    This thread...

    icon_eek.gificon_eek.gificon_eek.gif

    tumblr_m7e9v6EmVv1romq0yo1_400.gif
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    Aug 04, 2012 1:43 AM GMT
    Vitality:
    What I want is to be understood for who I am now compared to who I was back then

    StephenOABC:
    There are probably sociological studies of homosexual cultural across decades. Maybe a university with Sociology classes on homosexuality is where you can start. See if you can be a speaker, on a panel, or, if you cannot travel or be videotaped, see if a professor or a textbook writer can use your testimony.

    The book Passages helps men understand their lives then and now. Astrology helps people understand themselves. Get an A*C*G reading, get a Jan Spiller book on the North Node, read a book by Suzanne White on Chinese Astrology; read a book by Shelly Wu on Chinese Sexual Astrology. Also, for the then and now, look at your transits and progressions. At about $150 an hour, you can have standard sessions in psycho analysis.

    The gist of what you're saying is that compared to then, now you are wiser and more moral.

    BUT, one thing that is not the answer: monogamy and nuclear family monogamy. While these work for some people, it is immoral for some people to be monogamous or in a nuclear family unit.

    Vitality:
    You allowed your concern for yourself to hit rock bottom and NOW look what you got?

    StephenOABC:
    Get off your high horse. When one looks at books on the importance of touching, Maslow's ladder of needs should be edited to say the need for affection and sex, not just the need for sex.

    People are out there working to try to make a living and trying to meet there affection needs. And it's not just loving affection: it's massage, physical therapy, acupuncture, isometric strength, affirmation, flexibility through assisted touch, yoga with the assistance of a teacher.

    Basically, a case can be made that because of concern for oneself, people tried to find some physical play.


    Vitality:
    Reach in and find where self-esteem leaves a person.

    StephenOABC:
    You really need to read the writings of Jim Lewis on locational astrology (AstroCartoGraphy). There are places in this world where people will be under-appreciated. But, the love needs and the physical needs persist.

    In Astrology we learn there are four directions. I'll make it easy for your

    North - Midheaven - a public life
    South - IC - family roots
    East - AC - self
    West - DC - partnerships

    To answer your question: let's say there are four people. One at each position.

    Self esteem leaves when you're not living the purpose of your North Node.
    Sun Sign Astrology is NOT ENOUGH. You have to be aware of your North Node Sign. You talk about the Ego, that is Rising Sign Astrology. (Some people would say it's Sun Sign Astrology.)

    Self esteem leaves the North person when the public turns on them.
    Self esteem leaves the South person when their family turn on them.
    Self esteem leaves the West person when the partner leaves them.
    Self esteem leaves the East person when they can't be independent (poverty, forced into a public life, a marriage, back into living with parents and relatives).


    Vitality:
    Break apart that ego and inflate it with a new philosophy, one that doesn't land people up where I am at.

    StephenOABC:
    I listened to you and responded.
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    Aug 04, 2012 1:57 AM GMT
    StephenOABC:
    Why don't you see the push for domestic partnerships, civil unions and gay marriage something that would improve male homosexual morality?

    Cash:
    1. Perhaps because it is a Legal/Human Rights issue.

    StephenOABC:
    Marriage is a social contract. Sex between consenting adults (consent - agreement - contract) is moral.

    Social contract also refers to society and brings up the question as to whether or not Society approves of some manifestation of homosexuality. Profit driven and quarterly share price driven public corporations have a big voice in what constitutes Society. If lawyers and public partnerships (law firms) public companies think gay marriage is good for Society: there's your Societal approval.

    If the Age of Aquarius says it's time for a new definition of marriage despite the Age of Aquarius being only one of 12 ages, then for a few, gay marriage as an equivalent to breeder marriage is the illusion and the mirage. Breeder marriage is multi-generational. It partners both man and woman, closely knitting a genealogical tree. There is no evolution of the species when the species requires heterosexual reproduction and the marriage proposed is homosexual !

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    Aug 04, 2012 2:09 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said^^ have no idea what's going on with these last two posts. icon_eek.gificon_confused.gif
    NOthing reads right in the threads without BIG "Quotations" 's around it!
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    Aug 04, 2012 2:13 AM GMT
    endo said
    showme said
    Ariodante said
    dayumm saidI LUV First-Poster Fridays! whoot! icon_cool.gif


    That's not a first poster, that's Stuart.


    Stuart made a new account for a suspiciously ranty post.

    Ario came back (yay) but then hid himself again (boo).

    Just another Friday on that famous telenovela, Deportista Autentico.


    Ay dios mio!


    MARIA!! Por que!?!?
  • Kipstrdl

    Posts: 162

    Aug 04, 2012 2:32 AM GMT
    Wow... I think Vitality had good intentions with this thread even though he did it in such a whiny, self-pitying manner. When we see HIV positive individuals who are well adjusted, in good health, and successful, the take-away can sometimes be "Wow, HIV is a manageable condition that does not have to be a death sentence" rather than "how can we educate the community and gay youth on the importance of responsible sexual practices in order to avoid an epidemic that has already claimed millions"

    I don't know why he had to go off on a tangent about all the other shit that's fucked up in his life, but you guys are tearing him a new asshole.

    Also, HOW ARE ALL OF YOU PEOPLE ON A FIRST NAME BASIS WITH EACH OTHER?
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    Aug 04, 2012 4:00 AM GMT
    JackBlair69 said
    yourname2000 said^^^ LOL! Can't believe this guy still thinks people are gonna forget what a festering cunt he is and take him seriously. icon_lol.gif Dude: range: you need to get some....all angry all the time makes you a joke. icon_wink.gif


    If you seriously want to know why I am not a gay Democrat, then please pay attention. The complicity of the Left wing in the explosion of HIV/AIDS is only the starting point of my contempt.



    Your contempt is useless.

    Yet you sit in the mall and bitch.

    Until you become something, you will continue to be nothing.

    SO...great, you have identified with Stuart and T_B_A.

    One day, as you are driving down Rte 17 looking for the U-turn to the Parkway...you will realize that the WHOLE world passed you by.

    And NO one will have noticed.

    icon_neutral.gificon_neutral.gificon_neutral.gif
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    Aug 04, 2012 4:15 AM GMT
    JackBlair69 said
    yourname2000 said^^^ LOL! Can't believe this guy still thinks people are gonna forget what a festering cunt he is and take him seriously. icon_lol.gif Dude: range: you need to get some....all angry all the time makes you a joke. icon_wink.gif


    If you seriously want to know why I am not a gay Democrat, then please pay attention. The complicity of the Left wing in the explosion of HIV/AIDS is only the starting point of my contempt.

    Now that claim certainly requires some explanation and legitimate citations. Meaning NOT David Horowitz, one of the most radical right wingers going. You might as well be quoting Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.

    And for contrast, please enlighten us as to what the Right Wing was doing to combat HIV/AIDS, that makes the Left look so bad. At the outbreak of the AIDS crisis I remember that the Republican response was to consider HIV a just punishment for being homosexual, to propose mandatory quarantines and even concentration camps for the infected, if not for all gays, to require the establishment of databases of all those testing positive, to restrict money for HIV research, education & awareness, and to pass draconian laws against those with HIV.

    Some of those proposals came to pass, with others still being pushed by Republican lawmakers today. While it was Democrats who took opposite views, and still do, supporting the medical profession in a more rational approach to HIV control and elimination. Republicans looks for blame & penalties, and Democrats look for prevention & cure.

    So I'd like to hear how you think Liberals are to blame for the spread of HIV/AIDS, while Conservatives are not.
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    Aug 04, 2012 4:19 AM GMT
    ^ Yup. I was around for it, too and I well remember. Art is right. Jack is fucked up.
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    Aug 04, 2012 9:41 AM GMT
    Kipstrdl saidWow... I think Vitality had good intentions with this thread even though he did it in such a whiny, self-pitying manner. When we see HIV positive individuals who are well adjusted, in good health, and successful, the take-away can sometimes be "Wow, HIV is a manageable condition that does not have to be a death sentence" rather than "how can we educate the community and gay youth on the importance of responsible sexual practices in order to avoid an epidemic that has already claimed millions"

    I don't know why he had to go off on a tangent about all the other shit that's fucked up in his life, but you guys are tearing him a new asshole.

    Also, HOW ARE ALL OF YOU PEOPLE ON A FIRST NAME BASIS WITH EACH OTHER?


    Wow, you are the FIRST voice of reason... I can actually slow down my random typing so we can start focusing on WHY I believe HIV and sex together is immoral and damaging. Yes, I knew somebody else would finally slow down all that "gay community" rationalization crap I intentionally used so that together as a community we can start to talk about why we think society hates us and take responsibility for not just our simple duties, but the ones that require ALL of us to engage in.

    Number one, I am proud and very happy to say that I have not had, nor needed, sex in probably about 6 or 7 years (time flies by so fast I forget). This is a PERSONAL choice and I am very happy about this. Now think hard about what I just said... Does it or doesn't it remind of a time when others were proud to say the same? I remember that time clearly and it use to come from the gay community. WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT? We sure don't see it on RealJock (and I am 2 years new here).

    I have been HIV positive for over 12 years. I know the guilt and shame of "not revealing" and just how far that has gone and continues to go. This is where the issue still needs to be focused on at first because the rest of society has done a fucking WONDERFUL job at educating society about this disease.

    How do we accomplish the task of getting people to reveal their status when condoms obviously are not enough to make them feel comfortable enough to take a chance and tell someone? MORE PEOPLE LIKE ME THAT PULL THEIR COVERS which is what I am doing by posting this thread. I am not here for sex, what do I have to lose? I can use all the respondents here on RJ who simply flame my simple arguments and use it as proof of my argument. Is that where it ends for me? No, because I have another purpose I am trying to contribute.

    You are right, my intention is to help the gay community to not save face in the community, but rather find it is okay to have confidence in yourself and not feel you OWE me some massive apology for mistakes that only I made when I decided to have sex. I have a debt to pay to society for bailing me out and that is my only attraction to those here on RJ that are TRULY without HIV and wanting to keep things that way. This is going to be a tough job with the traffic it gets, but I believe I can do it.

    One of the obstacles I have in front of me is that you got those whiners whining about who they can't get as sex partners (I know you read that all the time) and it is hard for me to tell what their real intentions are, so I have to be careful. Eventually with my GRAND personality and tactful behavior, I can find the ones who are genuine winners here on RJ who should realize that life is SO much better when you can be honest with someone about your disease.

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    Aug 04, 2012 10:21 AM GMT
    I wonder why the big time posters on here can not read the first post and take it at face value.

    Vitality has brought to the forum a topic worth discussing.

    If he has been a “bad, bad man” in the past, what does that have to do with this topic?

    There are a lot of folks on here that lecture, so fuckn what? Sometimes a little listening and understanding of a simple lecture might change a couple of minds.

    Do the “know it alls” really have all the answers already. Excuse me God.

    As to the topic, I can not comment, do not have AIDS, loyal to the hubby, hell, and hardly ever need sex anymore. But, it would have been nice to read a few more comments that were topic related instead of wasting my time reading a bunch of crap.
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    Aug 04, 2012 11:11 AM GMT
    Excuse me while I do my "I told you so" dance. When I said that in time Stuart, aka Reaper, would reveal his true nature, I didn't think it would be in a day!
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    Aug 04, 2012 11:13 AM GMT
    alexander7 saidI wonder why the big time posters on here can not read the first post and take it at face value.

    Vitality has brought to the forum a topic worth discussing.

    If he has been a “bad, bad man” in the past, what does that have to do with this topic?

    There are a lot of folks on here that lecture, so fuckn what? Sometimes a little listening and understanding of a simple lecture might change a couple of minds.

    Do the “know it alls” really have all the answers already. Excuse me God.

    As to the topic, I can not comment, do not have AIDS, loyal to the hubby, hell, and hardly ever need sex anymore. But, it would have been nice to read a few more comments that were topic related instead of wasting my time reading a bunch of crap.


    This is a topic worth discussing, but not with Vitality. If you knew his history on this site, you'd understand why guys are reacting so negatively.
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    Aug 04, 2012 11:24 AM GMT
    Telling people not to have casual sex puts a stigma behind sex. It creates sexual anxiety which can lead to destructive behavior. All you can do is protect yourself the best way possible.

    I personally think when i see an HIV positive person who looks fantastic and is going above and beyond for his/her health is admirable. I'm not fans of people who play the victims.

    I think I found what some people need...

    cute hug Pictures, Images and Photos
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    Aug 04, 2012 11:28 AM GMT
    JackBlair69 said
    yourname2000 said^^^ LOL! Can't believe this guy still thinks people are gonna forget what a festering cunt he is and take him seriously. icon_lol.gif Dude: range: you need to get some....all angry all the time makes you a joke. icon_wink.gif


    If you seriously want to know why I am not a gay Democrat, then please pay attention. The complicity of the Left wing in the explosion of HIV/AIDS is only the starting point of my contempt.



    Yeah, it's because of those damn Democrats ... icon_rolleyes.gif

    Reagan's AIDS Legacy / Silence equals death
    Allen White

    ...Following discovery of the first cases in 1981, it soon became clear a national health crisis was developing. But President Reagan's response was "halting and ineffective," according to his biographer Lou Cannon. Those infected initially with this mysterious disease -- all gay men -- found themselves targeted with an unprecedented level of mean-spirited hostility.

    A significant source of Reagan's support came from the newly identified religious right and the Moral Majority, a political-action group founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell. AIDS became the tool, and gay men the target, for the politics of fear, hate and discrimination. Falwell said "AIDS is the wrath of God upon homosexuals." Reagan's communications director Pat Buchanan argued that AIDS is "nature's revenge on gay men."

    With each passing month, death and suffering increased at a frightening rate. Scientists, researchers and health care professionals at every level expressed the need for funding. The response of the Reagan administration was indifference.


    Activists such as Paul Boneberg, who in 1984 started Mobilization Against AIDS in San Francisco, begged President Reagan to say something now that he, like thousands of Americans, knew a person with AIDS. Writing in the Washington Post in late 1985, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, stated: "It is surprising that the president could remain silent as 6,000 Americans died, that he could fail to acknowledge the epidemic's existence. Perhaps his staff felt he had to, since many of his New Right supporters have raised money by campaigning against homosexuals."

    Reagan could have chosen to end the homophobic rhetoric that flowed from so many in his administration. Dr. C. Everett Koop, Reagan's surgeon general, has said that because of "intradepartmental politics" he was cut out of all AIDS discussions for the first five years of the Reagan administration. The reason, he explained, was "because transmission of AIDS was understood to be primarily in the homosexual population and in those who abused intravenous drugs." The president's advisers, Koop said, "took the stand, 'They are only getting what they justly deserve.' "
    How profoundly different might have been the outcome if his leadership had generated compassion rather than hostility. "In the history of the AIDS epidemic, President Reagan's legacy is one of silence," Michael Cover, former associate executive director for public affairs at Whitman-Walker Clinic, the groundbreaking AIDS health-care organization in Washington. in 2003. "It is the silence of tens of thousands who died alone and unacknowledged, stigmatized by our government under his administration."

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    Aug 04, 2012 11:59 AM GMT
    alexander7 saidI wonder why the big time posters on here can not read the first post and take it at face value.

    Vitality has brought to the forum a topic worth discussing.

    If he has been a “bad, bad man” in the past, what does that have to do with this topic?

    There are a lot of folks on here that lecture, so fuckn what? Sometimes a little listening and understanding of a simple lecture might change a couple of minds.

    Do the “know it alls” really have all the answers already. Excuse me God.

    As to the topic, I can not comment, do not have AIDS, loyal to the hubby, hell, and hardly ever need sex anymore. But, it would have been nice to read a few more comments that were topic related instead of wasting my time reading a bunch of crap.


    I am sorry you had to go through it this way... I have to confess I anger a lot of people because I hit a nerve when it comes to my honesty. Some people respond to morals differently than others do. I have not placed mine on the table yet and it seems to upset people because they keep wondering who's side I am on.

    As you clearly know, emotions are a part of healthy relationships and you cannot imagine how it feels to have a guy tell you he "loves you" especially after finding out he was the one who gave you AIDS and never told you he had it to begin with. Then I found out everyone I was having sex with was infected. But I am completely over this in the "blaming others" routine.

    What I am NOT over however is that some guys think my emotions are not part of "gay" health here on RJ. This is suppose to be a health website and I believe this to be the Owner of this websites true intentions. However, the politics are something I am going to have to deal with either way on my own. I was the one who put myself in that position.

    There are also a handful of individuals that remember a time I coupled my emotions with drinking and of course my emotions got thrown to the side here because of it. I fess up to that and again, they should be happy I am no longer doing this. They should be happy that because of their input I was able to discontinue that unhealthy lifestyle because it almost killed me many times. I am over 7 months sober now.

    So in a sense, I am here not only to criticize if I have to in order to receive some more of that great love here I was given, but to do something good for the community at the same time. There is one RJ'r who came over tonight and we had such a great time, he wanted to move here. You probably know him, Paulflexes. He knows what this is about.

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    Aug 04, 2012 12:13 PM GMT
    HorrorHero saidTelling people not to have casual sex puts a stigma behind sex. It creates sexual anxiety which can lead to destructive behavior. All you can do is protect yourself the best way possible.

    I personally think when i see an HIV positive person who looks fantastic and is going above and beyond for his/her health is admirable. I'm not fans of people who play the victims.

    I think I found what some people need...

    cute hug Pictures, Images and Photos


    But isn't using the excuse of "sexual anxiety" sometimes being used as playing the victims also? It's not the casual sex that is the problem. I have no judgement on those that have casual sex. I have a problem with the youth believing that the damage that comes from this disease is not to blame for the disease itself.

    When everyone was flaming my original post, some were curious as to why I mention my other diseases. The reason is because disease breeds more diseases. Those disease I listed are entirely related. I am telling you the honest to God truth. One leads to another and then they feed eachother. You don't know one is coming and then the other hits you.

    If we were discussing this in person I would find a better way to feed you this information without having to cram it down your throat with scare tactics and poking sticks at people. I know many guys just like me that OUGHT to inform you of this truth themselves but they are too busy crying for more free handouts without giving anything back to the system.

    You are right, you should find success stories inspiring, but don't believe everything you see out there. Many of them are not telling you the truth about how they caught this disease. It is not a pity party or a cut each other down party; it is not a fashion party though either.