HIV woke me up to the fact that sex can be immoral and damaging

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    Aug 04, 2012 12:39 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Vitality said...and I am not one to masturbate and discuss it with a bunch of sick fucks unless they are concerned about it.

    icon_question.gif


    Okay, we all have secrets. It doesn't have to control our actions though.
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    Aug 04, 2012 1:42 PM GMT
    Vitality:
    What I want is to be understood for who I am now compared to who I was back then

    StephenOABC:
    There are probably sociological studies of homosexual cultural across decades. Maybe a university with Sociology classes on homosexuality is where you can start. See if you can be a speaker, on a panel, or, if you cannot travel or be videotaped, see if a professor or a textbook writer can use your testimony.


    JackBlair69: All gays would do well to read David Horowitz's "A Radical Holocaust."

    Excerpt:

    Gay activists rejected the idea of integration into a normally functioning civil order. Gay liberation was identified with a sexual agenda that did not seek civic tolerance, respect, and integration into the public order of bourgeois life. It was defined instead as a defiant promiscuity, the overthrow of bourgeois morals and sexual restraints -- and, consequently, of bourgeois standards of public hygiene. No natural or moral barriers were recognized to the realization of the radical project.

    The Gay Liberation Front issued a manifesto in 1970 which proclaimed: “We are a revolutionary homosexual group of men and women formed with the realization that complete liberation of all people cannot come about unless existing social institutions are abolished. We reject society’s attempt to impose sexual roles and definitions of our nature.”

    The effect of this radical self-conception and agenda was immediate and unmistakable. In the years three years previous --- the flowering of the sexual revolution --- the incidence of amoebiasis, a parasitic sexually transmitted disease increased fifty times in San Francisco because of promiscuous oral-anal sex among gays. Despite the consequences, a Toronto leftist paper defended the practice in an article titled “Rimming As A Revolutionary Act.” During the next decade, the tolerant American civil order made room for the sexual revolutionaries. Public officials licensed sexual gymnasiums called “bathhouses” and turned a blind eye towards homosexual activity in bookstore backrooms, bars and “glory hole” establishments, until a $100 million public sex industry flourished by decade’s end, as what activists described as a homosexual “liberated zone.” At the same time, natural forces asserted themselves with ever more devastating results.

    As opportunistic but still treatable infections flourished in the petri dish of the liberated culture, gay radicals increased their defiance. Overloaded VD clinics became trysting places. “Gay men were being washed by tide after tide of increasingly serious infections. First it was syphilis and gonorrhea. Gay men made up about 80% of the 70,000 annual patient visits to [San Francisco’s] VD clinics. Easy treatment had imbued them with such a cavalier attitude toward VDs that many gay men saved their waiting-line numbers, like little tokens of desirability, and the clinic was considered an easy place to pick up both a shot and a date.” (Shilts)

    StephenOABC:
    Vitality, were you caught up in the above?

    JackBlair69, I'm not a fan of David Horowitz for reasons beyond the scope of this thread's topic. For me, it's important not to get caught up in Left Wing vs. Right Wing.
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    Aug 04, 2012 2:04 PM GMT
    JackBlair69 said
    yourname2000 said^^^ LOL! Can't believe this guy still thinks people are gonna forget what a festering cunt he is and take him seriously. icon_lol.gif Dude: range: you need to get some....all angry all the time makes you a joke. icon_wink.gif


    If you seriously want to know why I am not a gay Democrat, then please pay attention. The complicity of the Left wing in the explosion of HIV/AIDS is only the starting point of my contempt.



    Hi Jack, did you at least vote for Ralph Nader for president, then?

    P.S.: I see you have a Niall Ferguson book on your profile.
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    Aug 04, 2012 2:07 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    JackBlair69 said
    yourname2000 said^^^ LOL! Can't believe this guy still thinks people are gonna forget what a festering cunt he is and take him seriously. icon_lol.gif Dude: range: you need to get some....all angry all the time makes you a joke. icon_wink.gif


    If you seriously want to know why I am not a gay Democrat, then please pay attention. The complicity of the Left wing in the explosion of HIV/AIDS is only the starting point of my contempt.

    Now that claim certainly requires some explanation and legitimate citations. Meaning NOT David Horowitz, one of the most radical right wingers going. You might as well be quoting Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.


    LOL
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    Aug 04, 2012 2:24 PM GMT
    Art_Deco:

    At the outbreak of the AIDS crisis I remember that the Republican response was to consider HIV a just punishment for being homosexual--

    StephenOABC:

    Wait a second, a just punishment for:

    Gay activists rejected the idea of integration into a normally functioning civil order. Gay liberation was identified with a sexual agenda that did not seek civic tolerance, respect, and integration into the public order of bourgeois life. It was defined instead as a defiant promiscuity, the overthrow of bourgeois morals and sexual restraints -- and, consequently, of bourgeois standards of public hygiene. No natural or moral barriers were recognized to the realization of the radical project.

    In the excerpt from the above post, sex became politicized and on the offense. What is described in the quote is criminal and "just punishment" is phrasing I allow. The quote definitely describes anti-social behavior and depraved indifference.
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    Aug 04, 2012 2:50 PM GMT
    MuchoMasQueMusculo:
    Diabetes is a much worse medical condition than HIV. I've even had medical practitioners assert that they'd rather have HIV than diabetes because it is more manageable in comparison. With these statistics I'm inclined to agree with them.

    I don't see anyone on this site shaming people for self-inducing "Diabetes 2" (brought on by poor dietary habits). They're both diseases brought on by behavior.


    StephenOABC:

    There are sins we committed and we didn't know we were committing them.

    High-fructose corn syrup sodas were major advertisers in the 1970s before the dangers of high-fructose corn syrup became as widely known as they are known now.

    Fast-food establishments were major advertisers in the 1970s before the dangers of high-fructose corn syrup became as widely known as they are known now.

    Pizza was very popular in the 1980s in NYC when I lived there before the dangers of wheat became as widely known as they are known now.

    Maybe a book by Kevin Trudeau speaks to the dangers of high-fructose corn syrup. Super-Size Me is one piece that speaks against fast food. (I would often get a grilled chicken sandwich from Wendy's (between two slices of "bread") when I couldn't afford or didn't want a chicken salad with walnuts lunch. Sometimes I would walk Sixth Avenue (Rock Center) and get a Falafel.) Even the grilled chicken sandwich from Wendy's was WRONG, not just for the bread because if my blood type was B, Eat Right for Your Type, a book by a naturopathic doctor had reason to write chicken is not the most beneficial nutrient for a Blood Type B bio-chemical body.

    As for pizza, the book Wheat Belly speaks against it.


    MuchoMasQueMusculo, I bought the book Wheat Belly because someone mentioned it here at RealJock. You don't see people shaming people but you don't see a lot of bears making it as man of the day either.

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    Aug 04, 2012 2:55 PM GMT
    V said, " One of the newest stigma's I am finding are that guys come on here with toned body's and are HIV positive and the only torch they really carry for others is that "you can be just like me" rather than "this is what will happen to you if you continue ignoring your intuition".

    Hmmmm....but there are also a lot of men HIV+ or have AIDS that are on RJ and advise others to be very safe in their encounters, and endorse moral philosophies that are very traditional.

    V said, "I came on here and was bent out of shape because what I find in addition to the stigma of HIV is there are people running out and having tons of sex without worry that the condom will ever break thinking, "I'm gonna be just like that guy I saw all fit and healthy".

    Yes, I've seen some posts that say stuff like that and even the odd post that having unprotected sex with an AIDS patient on the virus scrubbing cocktail is fine n dandy because the chance of catching it is slim to none etc. To cap off one incident, a poster condoning this went on to become infected. That was one huge flame war, and before your time here.

    BUT, there are also a ton of posts by guys saying how bad they are treated being poz or having AIDS, post to others to be careful and not end up in their boots, so it isn't really fair to point out what you don't agree with and slap everyone here with the same paintbrush.

    As for morals, some guys have caught it from their monogamous partner after several years when said partner cheated on them. What moral lesson would you have them impart?

    intrigued,

    -Doug

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    Aug 04, 2012 3:05 PM GMT
    Vitality:
    Number one, I am proud and very happy to say that I have not had, nor needed, sex in probably about 6 or 7 years (time flies by so fast I forget). This is a PERSONAL choice and I am very happy about this.

    StephenOABC:

    I feel a Block/Ignore His Posts coming on.

    I remember an attractive lady in the late 1980s who was an advocate of volunteering to hold AIDS babies.

    That's only one example. Touching, holding, affection, nonverbal affirmation is important. There's a seven hugs a day rule somewhere.

    I like metrosexual men (clean, manicured, pedicured men --no nail polish--) who have are nurturers. (Yes, I've hunted down a man whose Sun Sign was Cancer. Many of the dates were wonderfully and mutually satisfying.)

    6 or 7 years unavailable to those who need hugs and physical affirmation? And you wonder why people become desperate. Black women who are desperate for unavailable Black men can sometimes make babies they can hold, caress, and love.

    I can't be too critical because I know from Locational Astrology, there are places a person can live where nurturing and being nurtured is allusive.

    That being said, I give you less audience.

    Namaste. Peace.
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    Aug 04, 2012 5:10 PM GMT
    meninlove said As for morals, some guys have caught it from their monogamous partner after several years when said partner cheated on them. What moral lesson would you have them impart?
    intrigued,
    -Doug


    Yeah, I have reread some of the comments on here that are more on topic but I still do not get what Vitality is looking for. Does he want the HIV pos guys on here to tell us their morals? Does he think that an HIV pos guy should not have sex?

    I do not really care about his history on this site. What has been written in the past is past. But, what really is the point of all this without a start?

    Confusedicon_confused.gif
  • MadeinMich

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    Aug 04, 2012 5:42 PM GMT
    alexander7 said
    meninlove said As for morals, some guys have caught it from their monogamous partner after several years when said partner cheated on them. What moral lesson would you have them impart?
    intrigued,
    -Doug


    Yeah, I have reread some of the comments on here that are more on topic but I still do not get what Vitality is looking for. Does he want the HIV pos guys on here to tell us their morals? Does he think that an HIV pos guy should not have sex?

    I do not really care about his history on this site. What has been written in the past is past. But, what really is the point of all this without a start?

    Confusedicon_confused.gif


    If it helps, what I got out of the original post was the OP see's a growth in celebration of HIV + survival overshadowing HIV + prevention in gay culture. He just wants to see greater preventative measures to decrease the amount of HIV transmittion. As a HIV survivor he wants to see a shift from celebrating the disease to preventing it.

    Like I said, wasn't the most elegant posting, but I think I got what he was trying to say.
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    Aug 04, 2012 6:10 PM GMT
    MadeinMich said

    If it helps, what I got out of the original post was the OP see's a growth in celebration of HIV + survival overshadowing HIV + prevention in gay culture. He just wants to see greater preventative measures to decrease the amount of HIV transmittion. As a HIV survivor he wants to see a shift from celebrating the disease to preventing it.

    Like I said, wasn't the most elegant posting, but I think I got what he was trying to say.


    Ok, thanks, if that is the intent then bravo, however, I do not think that celebrating any gains that science has made against any disease is wrong. In a way it is celebrating life.

    Then the question is should that celebration overshadow the continual fight against the disease? Can they not coexist?
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    Aug 04, 2012 6:11 PM GMT
    MadeinMich said
    alexander7 said
    meninlove said As for morals, some guys have caught it from their monogamous partner after several years when said partner cheated on them. What moral lesson would you have them impart?
    intrigued,
    -Doug


    Yeah, I have reread some of the comments on here that are more on topic but I still do not get what Vitality is looking for. Does he want the HIV pos guys on here to tell us their morals? Does he think that an HIV pos guy should not have sex?

    I do not really care about his history on this site. What has been written in the past is past. But, what really is the point of all this without a start?

    Confusedicon_confused.gif


    If it helps, what I got out of the original post was the OP see's a growth in celebration of HIV + survival overshadowing HIV + prevention in gay culture. He just wants to see greater preventative measures to decrease the amount of HIV transmittion. As a HIV survivor he wants to see a shift from celebrating the disease to preventing it.

    Like I said, wasn't the most elegant posting, but I think I got what he was trying to say.


    The OP is DEEPLY disturbed and ANYone who has been on RJ for more than 10 minutes knows it.

    Speaking as someone who was there when EVERYONE was dying...STFU.

    hiv is a virus.

    It is not a moral issue any more than the Flu is.

    Any issues you may have with sex are COMPLETELY unrelated to a retro-virus that has no mind, brain, or sentience.



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    Aug 04, 2012 6:17 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]

    The OP is DEEPLY disturbed and ANYone who has been on RJ for more than 10 minutes knows it.

    [/quote]

    He did admit to schizophrenia didn't he?

    Remember! Loose associations are often a symptom of psychosis!
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Aug 04, 2012 7:20 PM GMT
    alexander7 said
    MadeinMich said

    If it helps, what I got out of the original post was the OP see's a growth in celebration of HIV + survival overshadowing HIV + prevention in gay culture. He just wants to see greater preventative measures to decrease the amount of HIV transmittion. As a HIV survivor he wants to see a shift from celebrating the disease to preventing it.

    Like I said, wasn't the most elegant posting, but I think I got what he was trying to say.


    Ok, thanks, if that is the intent then bravo, however, I do not think that celebrating any gains that science has made against any disease is wrong. In a way it is celebrating life.

    Then the question is should that celebration overshadow the continual fight against the disease? Can they not coexist?


    Absoutely they should coexist. There should be an equilibrium, which I think is very healthy. But as HIV becomes more treatable there seems to be an attitute of apathy towards excercising method of prevention in the gay community, you actually have people out there who seek out getting the disease so they no longer have to live with fear of contracting the virus and have the kind of unsafe sex or relationships they desire. But, yes there should be a middle ground between prevention and celebration of survival
  • MadeinMich

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    Aug 04, 2012 7:24 PM GMT
    Cash said
    MadeinMich said
    alexander7 said
    meninlove said As for morals, some guys have caught it from their monogamous partner after several years when said partner cheated on them. What moral lesson would you have them impart?
    intrigued,
    -Doug


    Yeah, I have reread some of the comments on here that are more on topic but I still do not get what Vitality is looking for. Does he want the HIV pos guys on here to tell us their morals? Does he think that an HIV pos guy should not have sex?

    I do not really care about his history on this site. What has been written in the past is past. But, what really is the point of all this without a start?

    Confusedicon_confused.gif


    If it helps, what I got out of the original post was the OP see's a growth in celebration of HIV + survival overshadowing HIV + prevention in gay culture. He just wants to see greater preventative measures to decrease the amount of HIV transmittion. As a HIV survivor he wants to see a shift from celebrating the disease to preventing it.

    Like I said, wasn't the most elegant posting, but I think I got what he was trying to say.


    It is not a moral issue any more than the Flu is.

    Any issues you may have with sex are COMPLETELY unrelated to a retro-virus that has no mind, brain, or sentience.





    You can't compare HIV to the flu. It is much easier to proactively prevent yourself from getting HIV then the flu. Like it or not. HIV is a behavior based virus. And I'm affraid it is a bit more of a moral issue than some would like it to be. You just can't breath in someone elses air and contract HIV.

    As for the OP's prior history on this forum I am neither aware or concerned with his prior post. Beyond the possible bitterness and severe language of his rant I found the core of his post to be very thoughtful and yes, provocative.
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    Aug 04, 2012 7:29 PM GMT
    MadeinMich said
    Cash said
    MadeinMich said
    alexander7 said
    meninlove said As for morals, some guys have caught it from their monogamous partner after several years when said partner cheated on them. What moral lesson would you have them impart?
    intrigued,
    -Doug


    Yeah, I have reread some of the comments on here that are more on topic but I still do not get what Vitality is looking for. Does he want the HIV pos guys on here to tell us their morals? Does he think that an HIV pos guy should not have sex?

    I do not really care about his history on this site. What has been written in the past is past. But, what really is the point of all this without a start?

    Confusedicon_confused.gif


    If it helps, what I got out of the original post was the OP see's a growth in celebration of HIV + survival overshadowing HIV + prevention in gay culture. He just wants to see greater preventative measures to decrease the amount of HIV transmittion. As a HIV survivor he wants to see a shift from celebrating the disease to preventing it.

    Like I said, wasn't the most elegant posting, but I think I got what he was trying to say.


    It is not a moral issue any more than the Flu is.

    Any issues you may have with sex are COMPLETELY unrelated to a retro-virus that has no mind, brain, or sentience.





    You can't compare HIV to the flu. It is much easier to proactively prevent yourself from getting HIV then the ful. Like it or not. HIV is a behavior based virus. And I'm affraid it is a bit more of a moral issue than some would like it to be. You just can't breath in someone elses air and contract HIV


    Don't want the Flu???

    Don't breathe around people you don't know and aren't SURE about. Also don't touch door knobs and then touch your face.

    Modify yer BEHAVIOUR and you won't get sick.

    Any issues you may have with sex are COMPLETELY unrelated to a retro-virus that has no mind, brain, or sentience.
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    Aug 04, 2012 8:44 PM GMT
    This thread in it's totality, is depressing. Most of my friends, one close dear friend, who have HIV never have this much.... conflict... with their diagnosis... they just confront it.. take care of their bodies and resume life. Done.

    There are other issues involved with Vitality that have nothing to do with HIV or any of his other diseases. Truthfuly it sounds like you had a period where you hated yourself and just did everything and anything to your body and got a bunch of diseases and are regretful. There's redemption in acceptance. Your diseases are there. Accept them and focus on you... this is how the people i know who have HIV and cancer have survived...and if i were to become positive or get cancer or anything.. that is how i would take it...and choose to move on. focusing on me and what i might have done to land me here..and how to not do it and forgive myself. and that is all i hear in every Vitality post... non-self-forgiveness.
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    Aug 04, 2012 8:47 PM GMT
    JackKash saidThis thread in it's totality, is depressing. Most of my friends, one close dear friend, who have HIV never have this much.... conflict... with their diagnosis... they just confront it.. take care of their bodies and resume life. Done.

    There are other issues involved with Vitality that have nothing to do with HIV or any of his other diseases. Truthfuly it sounds like you had a period where you hated yourself and just did everything and anything to your body and got a bunch of diseases and are regretful. There's redemption in acceptance. Your diseases are there. Accept them and focus on you... this is how the people i know who have HIV and cancer have survived...and if i were to become positive or get cancer or anything.. that is how i would take it...and choose to move on. focusing on me and what i might have done to land me here..and how to not do it and forgive myself. and that is all i hear in every Vitality post... non-self-forgiveness.


    Fuck.



    I'm gonna have to agree with you. As much as I don't wanna
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    Aug 04, 2012 8:53 PM GMT
    Oh my god, I will stop having sex right now.

    Sorry man, you have to go home, I just read a stupid history.icon_lol.gif
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    Aug 04, 2012 9:01 PM GMT
    Hapuna said
    JackKash saidThis thread in it's totality, is depressing. Most of my friends, one close dear friend, who have HIV never have this much.... conflict... with their diagnosis... they just confront it.. take care of their bodies and resume life. Done.

    There are other issues involved with Vitality that have nothing to do with HIV or any of his other diseases. Truthfuly it sounds like you had a period where you hated yourself and just did everything and anything to your body and got a bunch of diseases and are regretful. There's redemption in acceptance. Your diseases are there. Accept them and focus on you... this is how the people i know who have HIV and cancer have survived...and if i were to become positive or get cancer or anything.. that is how i would take it...and choose to move on. focusing on me and what i might have done to land me here..and how to not do it and forgive myself. and that is all i hear in every Vitality post... non-self-forgiveness.


    Fuck.



    I'm gonna have to agree with you. As much as I don't wanna


    Whatever. I'm not a bad guy. I'm just a straight serious shooter when it comes to subject that is serious and i care about and i type so that no one will misunderstand me. I also bring a bit too much psychology to the plate and i wish i didn't do that.. but i can't help it.
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    Aug 04, 2012 11:46 PM GMT
    Wasn't his name Sustenence a couple days ago? Was it banned? ..? Why?icon_eek.gif and how did he make a new one...?
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    Aug 04, 2012 11:55 PM GMT
    Farmjock saidWasn't his name Sustenence a couple days ago? Was it banned? ..? Why?icon_eek.gif and how did he make a new one...?


    He creates new accounts constantly. Basically, whenever he has a little time between drooling Psychotic episodes and shuffling around bus stations soiled by his own excrement and muttering to himself, he comes on to RJ to remind us all how sick WE are.

    He also lets Us know how much he really hates everybody here.

    And how he wants NOTHING to do with this site.

    He comes back CONSTANTLY to tell Us how he wants NOTHING to do with this site.

    As soon as the Thorazine wears off he will begin sending out derranged video clips via e-mail and posting them in EVERY single thread.

    That is usually when he gets booted off.
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    Aug 04, 2012 11:58 PM GMT
    Cash said
    Farmjock saidWasn't his name Sustenence a couple days ago? Was it banned? ..? Why?icon_eek.gif and how did he make a new one...?


    He creates new accounts constantly. Basically, whenever he has a little time between drooling Psychotic episodes and shuffling around bus stations soiled by his own excrement and muttering to himself, he comes on to RJ to remind us all how sick WE are.

    He also lets Us know how much he really hates everybody here.

    And how he wants NOTHING to do with this site.

    He comes back CONSTANTLY to tell Us how he wants NOTHING to do with this site.

    As soon as the Thorazine wears off he will begin sending out derranged video clips via e-mail and posting them in EVERY single thread.

    That is usually when he gets booted off.


    icon_eek.gificon_eek.gif Erm.... His posts are depressing.. isn't this a fitness site? I think all this medical talk he does he should be on a WebMD forum..
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    Aug 05, 2012 1:44 AM GMT
    Krankheit saidYeah, what IS it with these people constantly changing their screen names?


    Yeah -- when is YOUR Thorazine gonna kick in????

    Oh ... wait....mine just did...


    icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 05, 2012 2:34 AM GMT
    What I am finding nobody likes about me here is that I openly admit that the Gay Community has sold their AIDS Quilt to charity and then steals it back when somebody like me suggests they might need it again.

    What they are really doing is hiding the fact that the AIDS Quilt demonstration really was a bunch of sex crazed lunatics crying for the government to let them have one more big fucking orgy with the media again. And don't try manipulating me with how much it has done for me because it has never done SHIT! You passed it around like a free pass and a deadly puck and taught me how to do the same.

    The gay community was fucked up on morals and is still fucked up on morals. I am happy and accepting about all of my diseases now and it is of no credit to the gay community. Someone like me wants to take a stand to help educate the community about how AIDS is not just that AIDS blanket bullshit crap and you toss me some emotionless pacifier and tell me it will be okay.

    I'm DONE listening to the AIDS prejudice losers in this community. I don't need your pacifier because sex is nolonger one of my drugs of choice anymore. The only accepting I have had to do is to realize I am going to get NO support or vote of confidence on your side, and I will and do get a tone of support when it comes to the general population in this country. So chew on those words.

    I don't go to gay pride rainbow lust events because they have fizzled away. The gay clubs are not what they were anymore and our world famous gay social scene went completely out of business as gay men are being shunned for their lack of moral value. Now they are whining about the gay marriage thing like the political statement is going to earn them some kind of credit in the real world.

    My friends are probably all straight men except for one and I can remember a time this community tried to shut my mouth for questioning their HIV positive status for fear I would actually listen to what straight people were telling me about this community. Everytime this community finds itself in a pickle when it comes to sexual morals, they manipulate eachother until everyone is afraid to open their mouths as well as afraid to leave.

    Sorry, I am a free man now!!!! I don't define myself by sexual standards anymore because I don't do sex. I have never spread this disease and I will rely upon those that pat me on the back for doing such rather than brush me off for not being one of your HIV positive pin up boys support your sexual causes.

    So why am here stabbing you with a knife? Because that is what you did to me by your silence. I caught this disease because I was manipulated by it until I realized love and hate in the gay community is one and the same thing. People don't care about nothing but trying to turn this world into some gay prison where guys like me can't laugh at how fucking sensitive I am about my looks.

    I can go on and on because I had long ago already settled on who's side I am on and my philosophy does not require my friends to be "careful" about who I am as an individual and how I feel about my conscience. Gay people don't care about consciences.