Stealing/borrowing your neighbor's wifi

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 4:22 AM GMT
    Stop stealing my air, with those big nostrils of yours.
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1511

    Aug 16, 2012 4:27 AM GMT
    ChangeofName saidThis argument makes no sense. The owner of the Internet connection has a duty to secure the connection, if they fail to do so THEY are liable.

    Since Star Bucks, and thousands of other commericial districts leave their wifi unsecured, the analogy of "stealing" is stupid. I can go to the public library and "steal" Internet as well...
    icon_rolleyes.gif

    Your argument breaks down rather fast.

    When you go to Starbucks or the public library, you typically get a popup stating you agree to their T.O.S. which states you indemnify that institution from any legal damages you cause. Typically that is used in case you use the network access to download copyright or otherwise restricted material illegally, the institution in question is legally covered. Additionally, you pay for that internet access via taxes [for the library], or in the case of starbucks via your patronage as a customer.

    Your argument has a sense of reverse-ethics involved.

    If a bike is left unlocked, should it be taken from the owner without their permission?

    If a wallet is left in the open, should you take it to teach the owner a lesson? [I actually knew someone who did that to a "friend," and almost didn't give him the money back saying: he shouldn't have left it out, he was asking for it."]

    So no. I'm sorry. You are basically saying someone is "asking to be stolen from."
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    Aug 16, 2012 4:28 AM GMT
    Studinprogress said
    ChangeofName saidThis argument makes no sense. The owner of the Internet connection has a duty to secure the connection, if they fail to do so THEY are liable.

    Since Star Bucks, and thousands of other commericial districts leave their wifi unsecured, the analogy of "stealing" is stupid. I can go to the public library and "steal" Internet as well...
    icon_rolleyes.gif

    When you go to Starbucks or the public library, you typically get a popup stating you agree to their T.O.S. which states you indemnify that institution from any legal damages you cause. Typically that is used in case you use the network access to download copyright or otherwise restricted material illegally, the institution in question is legally covered. Additionally, you pay for that internet access via taxes [for the library] or in the case of starbucks via your patronage as a customer.

    Your analogy never addresses the morality of the issue. If a bike is left unlocked, should it be taken from the owner without their permission?

    If a wallet is left in the open, should you take it to teach the owner a lesson? [I actually knew someone who did that to a "friend," and almost didn't give him the money back saying: he shouldn't have left it out, he was asking for it."]

    So no. I'm sorry. You are basically saying someone is "asking to be stolen from."


    Technically yes, when you sign that Internet agreement your service provider states you are responsible for securing your wifi, any and all use of the service we provide blah blah blah

    Btw it can very well be argued that Internet use is a public good, that should be afforded to all citizens by the government because the flow of information is a positive externality...


    Boo YA
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1511

    Aug 16, 2012 4:29 AM GMT
    ChangeofName said
    Studinprogress said
    ChangeofName saidThis argument makes no sense. The owner of the Internet connection has a duty to secure the connection, if they fail to do so THEY are liable.

    Since Star Bucks, and thousands of other commericial districts leave their wifi unsecured, the analogy of "stealing" is stupid. I can go to the public library and "steal" Internet as well...
    icon_rolleyes.gif

    When you go to Starbucks or the public library, you typically get a popup stating you agree to their T.O.S. which states you indemnify that institution from any legal damages you cause. Typically that is used in case you use the network access to download copyright or otherwise restricted material illegally, the institution in question is legally covered. Additionally, you pay for that internet access via taxes [for the library] or in the case of starbucks via your patronage as a customer.

    Your analogy never addresses the morality of the issue. If a bike is left unlocked, should it be taken from the owner without their permission?

    If a wallet is left in the open, should you take it to teach the owner a lesson? [I actually knew someone who did that to a "friend," and almost didn't give him the money back saying: he shouldn't have left it out, he was asking for it."]

    So no. I'm sorry. You are basically saying someone is "asking to be stolen from."


    Technically yes, when you is that Internet agreement your service provider states you are responsible for securing your wifi, any and all use of the service we provide blah blah blah

    No, in both cases all you have made is a *legal* argument about "liability." You have never addressed my primary point: morality and ethics.

    Legality does not equal morality.

    Additionally, you are talking about contracts. Which has nothing to do with state-level legality; it is only in there to indemnify the ISP if your network is compromised and the state/federal governments or other interested third parties pursue the matter if the breach results in improper internet usage.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 4:31 AM GMT
    *sigh*

    The judge would laugh in your face if you brought this to court...


    Quit while you are behind


    The connection is unsecured... Unless encryption is broken, it's not a crime..
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1511

    Aug 16, 2012 4:33 AM GMT
    ChangeofName said*sigh*

    The judge would laugh in your face if you brought this to court...

    Quit while you are behind

    I'm sorry that you cannot comprehend the point I am making.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 4:34 AM GMT
    I'm sorry you don't understand how the real world works..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 4:35 AM GMT
    Import saidNow typing u guys from MY OWN internet connection now. COX just guys left.
    Paid for by ME

    Guy who said, that it's like walking into the gym and seeing and unlocked locker with his keys and wallet in it..... that it's the same.

    No, it's not. A wallet, keys (and car) and tanglible items that when stolen...will negatively affect the victim..

    A wifi signal is not a tanglible item that I'm stealing. Nor the "victim" really being adversely affected by me using the internet.


    Actually you're wrong. If they have a bandwidth limit on their account then youcould cause them to go over and have to pay a fee.
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1511

    Aug 16, 2012 4:37 AM GMT
    ChangeofName saidI'm sorry you don't understand how the real world works..

    I'm sorry you have no standards of morality. You need to get a backbone. I'm sorry I beat you at your own argument. Trololol.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 4:39 AM GMT
    Studinprogress said
    ChangeofName saidI'm sorry you don't understand how the real world works..

    I'm sorry you have no standards of morality. You need to get a backbone. I'm sorry I beat you at your own argument. Trololol.


    Have you ever downloaded a movie or mp3 that you legally did not purchase?

    Yeah that's what I thought. Ur full of shit.

    Better yet did you watch a clip of a movie on YouTube, or use YouTube whatsoever?


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 2:54 PM GMT
    OK ladies ....calm down.

    I have my own internet now. You can all rest easy knowing that I am paying for internet, just like the rest of you. A rat, being fleeced by corporate America, just like the rest of you. . .

    Anyway, having my own internet feels good, because I'm working for it and it's just a rewarding experience, knowing I'm paying like $40-something dollars a month to post on RJ. It must mean I really love you guys. icon_redface.gif
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1511

    Aug 16, 2012 3:44 PM GMT
    ChangeofName said
    Studinprogress said
    ChangeofName saidI'm sorry you don't understand how the real world works..

    I'm sorry you have no standards of morality. You need to get a backbone. I'm sorry I beat you at your own argument. Trololol.

    Have you ever downloaded a movie or mp3 that you legally did not purchase?

    Yeah that's what I thought. Ur full of shit.

    Better yet did you watch a clip of a movie on YouTube, or use YouTube whatsoever?

    Contractual indemnification is a civil legal function and does does not equal criminal state/federal level legality nor does it equal morality. In the end, the person who is stealing the WiFi is the person truly "liable." In the civil suit, you the owner of the unsecured access point have to cover the damages caused to the ISP, *then* those damages you pass onto the other person who illegally accessed the wireless network. And it is not that hard to find the person if you have a rudimentary understanding of 802.11 packet sniffing since wireless cards routinely make utility packets trying to locate other APs. In a criminal case, the person who performed malicious damage against the state would be prosecuted for the attack, NOT the owner of the Wireless Network, who would likely only get a slap on the wrist for not securing his network.

    Nevertheless, you insist on making your point through negative pathos instead of giving an actual sound logical argument.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 7:54 PM GMT
    I think I'm more inclined to believe the court and laws surrounding wifi, and a multi billion dollar corporation over some supposed "jock" on a website, no offense.

    ---

    Google argued that "the Wiretap Act permits the interception of unencrypted Wi-Fi communications. The FCC agreed. To quote from the FCC's Notice of Apparent Liability for the Google case, "It shall not be unlawful under this chapter or chapter 121 of this title for any person ... to intercept or access an electronic communication made through an electronic communication system that is configured so that such electronic communication is readily accessible to the general public." In short, if your Wi-Fi isn't configured to be secure by the use of WPA (Wi-Fi Protected Access), WPA2 (Wi-Fi Protected Access 2) or even the long broken Wired Equivalency Privacy (WEP), then by the FCC's rules it's not illegal to listen in on it.

    ----

    I made no mention of using the internet for "malicious purposes" your argument is stupid. The constant side-stepping and irrelevance doesnt even warrant a mature response. I made it clear that the legality exists on unsecured networks and not cracking encryption on secured, and I made NO mention of using the internet for illegal purposes. The argument is based on the use of UNSECURED WIFI networks, the legal and moral obligation still exists on use not the fact that whether or not the use is warranted.

    Lastly save the ethics speech as well, since Im all 100% certain you've downloaded porn, music, and media without the consent of copyright owners.

    Get off the high horse.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 9:25 PM GMT
    You could be charging them fees in extra download usage.. not good.

    Unsecured wifi is great for when you're in a pinch, but to use it beyond that... not honourable.

    Maybe you could arrange a deal with them to split internet. Some people would be glad to. If they have a network with folders with read/write access, you could put a text file there and say "Hi, I'm your neighbour, my internet hasn't come yet, ... wanna split?"

    Sorry about the moving blues. When I moved, I was out of internet & phone for 2 weeks because of blunders at the telecom company. Had to use a payphone to call them and ask for updates. Pissed me off and I missed out on something irreplaceable.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 10:58 PM GMT
    eightball saidsee how long you can get away with it.

    a friend of mine was jacking his neighbor's wifi for a while, but they eventually found out and secured it.


    This sounds good to me!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 10:59 PM GMT
    This OP is one of the most DISGUSTING!!! excuses for a human being EVER!!! He BRAGS about running red lights and stealing internet services that innocent unsuspecting people living next door have earned with their sweat and blood....He rejoices in all the violins on TV..... not to mention complaining about ENDANGERED FECES...how GROSS!!!


    ....What?????.....really?.......oh......








    .
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 11:02 PM GMT
    (Wondering if I should even bother with this)........................neh
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 16, 2012 11:21 PM GMT
    You should know that a lot of people prey on asshats like you. They expect you to leech on to an unsecured network in order to access your info. and fuck you while you think you're fucking them.

    Have at it, son!
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    Aug 16, 2012 11:23 PM GMT
    credo saidYou should know that a lot of people prey on asshats like you. They expect you to leech on to an unsecured network in order to access your info. and fuck you while you think you're fucking them.

    Have at it, son!

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    I approve this message.
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    Aug 16, 2012 11:43 PM GMT
    princeofnash saidYou just paid 7k for furniture. I think you can afford the $40 or so per month. I wouldn't classify it as a crime but ethically wrong to do.

    It is strange that they don't have it secured as I thought everyone did that now. You could always befriend them and ask to split the internet bill each month. haha. icon_smile.gif


    Anybody can afford furniture with a "monthly payment" hence that he cant afford the internet because of the monthly payment of said furniture.....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 17, 2012 10:50 PM GMT
    is it morally and ethically reprehensible to intercept Free To Air Satellite signals broadcast as well?

    I mean, if they wanted the use of those FREE TO AIR channels restricted, they would've encrypted them right?

    I could be lost in a large metropolitan city, and not have any direction as to where my hotel is... So the morally correct thing to do is to walk stranded and risk getting mugged on the mean streets of Vancouver (heh), than connecting my wifi device to Google Maps?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 17, 2012 11:05 PM GMT
    My neighbor just moved out and now I don't have wifi, how selfish of him
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2013 11:41 PM GMT
    Import saidJust moved into a brand new place today.

    So far it has been quite eventful and not in a good way. Spent $7k on furniture and scheduled it to be delivered today, well more than half didn't even show up... My precious new bed was "damaged" so they couldn't deliver it. Looks like I'll be sleeping on a pile of dirty laundry.


    No suitable furniture showed up to sleep on? lol
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 31, 2013 12:01 AM GMT
    Claystation said(Wondering if I should even bother with this)........................neh


    Nooo Clayton! You must say something! Your input satisfies and nourishes me icon_twisted.gif
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Jan 31, 2013 12:02 AM GMT
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