Lack of racial diversity in my local gay community really bringing me down

  • barracuda68

    Posts: 66

    Aug 29, 2012 1:22 PM GMT
    Hey,

    It's ironic because I'm from Toronto and I find the gay community pretty racist. But I guess it's all relative.

    I wrote this blog post about racism in the gay community a while back. You might like it: http://www.terrylevine.com/2011/03/the-queer-case-of-racism-in-the-gay-community.html


    MadeinMich saidSo I'm back in Michigan, which has a very divisive racial history and am down about the prospect to meet guys of every race in this area. In terms of dating I consider myself like a united nations with no main prejudices in my attraction to guys. But since I've been back here from Toronto the racial disparity amoung gay guys here has been amplified in my consciousness. I have been called a nigger (unprovoked, honestly) online and when my white friends asks other guys (who ARE in my league with no dilusional expectation of mine, hefty, balding)why the lack of interest they say "I'm not into black guys".

    Cut to a month ago when I was in Toronto men from all different cultures were into me and I was into them. Muscular, handsome, guys from different races who would have shunned me here at home were suprisingly interested and they were suprised at my situation back home. Due to the lack of employment prospects in my field it is very difficult to move to a more culturall diverse town and its killing me.

    Don't get me wrong I am attracted to AA men as well but I'm not exclusive to one race. But here it seems like black fro black and white for white. A saturday night at a gay bar or club looks like a high school cafeteria where all the races have segregated themselves. This is especially sad to me because the out gay population is relatively small.

    Does anyone notice the same thing where they live? How does it make you feel? Not looking for a pity party just some discourse on the subject.
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    Aug 29, 2012 5:35 PM GMT
    Bacon.
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    Aug 29, 2012 5:36 PM GMT
    jmusmc85 saidBacon.


    Cheese. =_=
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    Aug 29, 2012 6:03 PM GMT
    MadeinMich said
    kingmo saidi think you can apply your disillusionment and frustration to any Asian guy in any city... including Toronto.


    Really? Thats sad. I feel for you. I see some pretty cute Asians. lol


    thanks but you know that the world we live in is not perfect, and while lots of advances have been made on the social/political front in the last (say) 60 years, we still have a long way to go.

    the way i see it is that there are people who have found a way (either from travel or exposure to other culture, or from being deeper thinkers) to challenge their "eye" and see beauty in its different forms. while many more others see conventional beauty as its presented to them.

    its kinda like how some people like contemporary art, and others like classical. some people can appreciate different types of art, while others can only appreciate what they have always liked.

  • AllAmericanJo...

    Posts: 4271

    Aug 29, 2012 6:08 PM GMT
    nevz said
    metta8 saidI don't think that Los Angeles has that issue. Everything is so mixed it does not matter. I'm sure that San Francisco, and New York are probably the same as well.


    I'm sure SF and NY is BETTER than, say, Michigan when it comes to racial blindness or however you might term it, but you're seriously deluding yourself if you actually think that people in LA or NY are "so mixed [race] it does not matter."


    Precisely. Nope. WeHo is still far too segregated. My off-and-on and I are like unicorns when we go out, with the stares. Like how dare we bring our interracial act out in public. Or people going out of their way to compliment us, like we're civil rights martyrs. Ridiculous. He is visiting soon, we're due for another round of pointing and whispers. Fun fun.

    Count me in with those over these threads. I really don't get the 'why u no talk to me generic white guy?' consternation because I find guys with a little...ahem...flavor more attractive anyway (JUST A PREFERENCE). And by 'flavor' I don't mean non-white so much as non-WASP and non-cookie cutter -- black, Latino, French, Italian, Brazilian, Filipino, mixed, Jewish or Jewish-looking...yummy!

    My suggestion is to travel or move to South America or Europe. Relative to American gays, non-American gays are not so stuck on spending all their time with their twins. You will receive attention from a colorful assortment. Tasting the rainbow will repair your self-image and rebuild your self-esteem. Once (if) you return to the USA, you will have the self-confidence to not give a fuck, knowing that it's *really* not about you: it's about a collective and usually unattainable "all-American" fantasy ingrained from too many hours of watching Sean Cody porn. (A fantasy that, by the way, is going to leave many gay guys alone and bitter in retirement, poor things.) nbd
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    Aug 29, 2012 7:38 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    nevz said
    metta8 saidI don't think that Los Angeles has that issue. Everything is so mixed it does not matter. I'm sure that San Francisco, and New York are probably the same as well.


    I'm sure SF and NY is BETTER than, say, Michigan when it comes to racial blindness or however you might term it, but you're seriously deluding yourself if you actually think that people in LA or NY are "so mixed [race] it does not matter."


    Precisely. Nope. WeHo is still far too segregated. My off-and-on and I are like unicorns when we go out, with the stares. Like how dare we bring our interracial act out in public. Or people going out of their way to compliment us, like we're civil rights martyrs. Ridiculous. He is visiting soon, we're due for another round of pointing and whispers. Fun fun.

    Count me in with those over these threads. I really don't get the 'why u no talk to me generic white guy?' consternation because I find guys with a little...ahem...flavor more attractive anyway (JUST A PREFERENCE). And by 'flavor' I don't mean non-white so much as non-WASP and non-cookie cutter -- black, Latino, French, Italian, Brazilian, Filipino, mixed, Jewish or Jewish-looking...yummy!

    My suggestion is to travel or move to South America or Europe. Relative to American gays, non-American gays are not so stuck on spending all their time with their twins. You will receive attention from a colorful assortment. Tasting the rainbow will repair your self-image and rebuild your self-esteem. Once (if) you return to the USA, you will have the self-confidence to not give a fuck, knowing that it's *really* not about you: it's about a collective and usually unattainable "all-American" fantasy ingrained from too many hours of watching Sean Cody porn. (A fantasy that, by the way, is going to leave many gay guys alone and bitter in retirement, poor things.) nbd



    America period is segregated. I take it as a fact of life.. it's really in finding the lesser of evils and places where people are more educated and walking cities will present you with people who less hung up around race.

    Los Angeles is SO not diverse. It's a car town.. i grew up in SoCal..and LA is ruled mainly by money.. if you are black and have money you still get IN, but you have to have your "pet white" still to be taken seriously. Sorry but true.. And because you are in your own car, alot of what you is dictated by who you know..and people mainly associated with other people based on race and class.. LA is moreso dominated by class structure than race per say. The parties you are invited to and your friends are often dictated by how much money you got in the bank and who you know... and race plays into that. If you are an "attractive black man".. of course you'll be more popular than a "average" black man. If you present yourself as sexualized you have more cache with whites.. and if you want a white boyfriend easily.. just have a banging body, be with super ghetto yet tamed enough to take to dinner.. or be completely "obama black" (black without all that black) and come from money or be connected to it and be able to play the game. Oh and have a big dick.


    I think in "the gay world" the standard for beauty among black men is completely on a different scale then for white men in most instances. An average looking white guy can still pull in tons of C&A if he has money or a decent job and connection.. or he'll date mainly minorities who are looking for "the white card"..which like Visa is accepted everywhere you want to be. I've had white dudes tell me to their face that they date minorities because they figure their dating pool is smaller (and because minorities complain that their dating pool is small) thus therefore, the average looking white man could most likely pull in an just above average or holy smoking hot black or asian easier than an attractive white guy. It's so true.. you can easily see high principle ass looking white men with George Jefferson hair and maybe a comb over with attractive black latin and asian boyfriends who are just with them because at least they are with a white guy who is generally socially accepted and it feels nice to have that "in" socially. I see it all the time.


    In the gay world blacks can be seen as "subpar".. or a "boutique".. something adjacent to real american beauty which is typically white young athletic. When A&F pimps out "All american" it's pretty much well understood they mean "all white" when Black men and women are as American as could possibly be because we were basically created here.

    Just a month and half ago i was in Texas having dinner with these basic strangers who were well to do friends of a friend.. we had an awesome evening... and the two white boyfriends ended it with "You are so articulate for a black guy." So the basic understanding is that I am abnormally bright for a dumb race? right. I've gotten that sentence as much as "You are attractive for a black guy."

    So these are realities that exist and you as a black gay male will face in pockets of society. It has nothing to do with you... but more on other people.. i do sort of believe in "acceptance breed change" ..because once you accept the reality you are in.. you can then navigate it as truth and occupy your space with good people.. or even avoid certain people altogether as an act of self preservation so you don't wind up bitter... like that of some black gay men who LOATHE white men... and throw the idea of interracial dating out with the bath water. I know of a few like that.

    However they still secretly jerk off to white porno.
  • AllAmericanJo...

    Posts: 4271

    Aug 29, 2012 8:04 PM GMT
    JackKash said
    TroyAthlete said
    Precisely. Nope. WeHo is still far too segregated. My off-and-on and I are like unicorns when we go out, with the stares. Like how dare we bring our interracial act out in public. Or people going out of their way to compliment us, like we're civil rights martyrs. Ridiculous. He is visiting soon, we're due for another round of pointing and whispers. Fun fun.

    Count me in with those over these threads. I really don't get the 'why u no talk to me generic white guy?' consternation because I find guys with a little...ahem...flavor more attractive anyway (JUST A PREFERENCE). And by 'flavor' I don't mean non-white so much as non-WASP and non-cookie cutter -- black, Latino, French, Italian, Brazilian, Filipino, mixed, Jewish or Jewish-looking...yummy!

    My suggestion is to travel or move to South America or Europe. Relative to American gays, non-American gays are not so stuck on spending all their time with their twins. You will receive attention from a colorful assortment. Tasting the rainbow will repair your self-image and rebuild your self-esteem. Once (if) you return to the USA, you will have the self-confidence to not give a fuck, knowing that it's *really* not about you: it's about a collective and usually unattainable "all-American" fantasy ingrained from too many hours of watching Sean Cody porn. (A fantasy that, by the way, is going to leave many gay guys alone and bitter in retirement, poor things.) nbd


    Los Angeles is SO not diverse...you can easily see high principle ass looking white men with George Jefferson hair and maybe a comb over with attractive black latin and asian boyfriends who are just with them because at least they are with a white guy who is generally socially accepted and it feels nice to have that "in" socially...

    i do sort of believe in "acceptance breed change" ..because once you accept the reality you are in.. you can then navigate it as truth and occupy your space with good people.. or even avoid certain people altogether as an act of self preservation so you don't wind up bitter... like that of some black gay men who LOATHE white men... and throw the idea of interracial dating out with the bath water. I know of a few like that.

    However they still secretly jerk off to white porno.


    Hahaha, you're funny. Yeah, it's so true. A lot of LA's vaunted "diversity" is totally superficial. The city is very, very segregated by class, true.

    And, yes, the key is to stop whining and worrying, accept yourself, and surround yourself with good people. I feel so embarrassed for these gorgeous ethnic guys who would rather settle for an average white guy than date a better catch because of racial preferences, but to each his own. Not to mention the minorities who get so worked up about perceived slights that they come to "LOATHE" anybody who doesn't look like them. What a mess.
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    Aug 29, 2012 8:05 PM GMT
    Quit worrying about who wants to associate with whom and get to know the people who want to associate with you.
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    Aug 29, 2012 10:40 PM GMT
    As much as I love this topic, I must agree with the guy above me: accept yourself and to hell with anyone gays who don't want to have a black guy as a friend because he doesn't find blacks attractive. I mean... would you honestly want to be around someone so superficial as to surround himself with friends who generally fit his sexual preferences? Just thank God that most of them won't have kids to pass on that spirit.
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    Aug 29, 2012 10:43 PM GMT
    people never know what to categorize me as. icon_lol.gif
    some say im mix of black and white, some say im hispanic, some say im asian. haha. I represent everybody icon_cool.gificon_cool.gif
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    Aug 29, 2012 10:50 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidQuit worrying about who wants to associate with whom and get to know the people who want to associate with you.


    Isn't that the problem? Perhaps he thinks none wants to associate with him
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Aug 30, 2012 12:51 AM GMT
    HowHotKC saidNow back to the OP and the original question; in my city I generally see a segregated (high school cafeteria) approach at the gay bars but not at the dance clubs. I am fairly confident that I see less multi-racial gay couples than I see multi-racial straight couples.

    I think one big difference between the Midwest where you and I are versus Toronto is the religious traditions of African-Americans. In my community gay black men seem far more likely to be married and living dual lives than gay white men. I have witnessed the stigma toward gay men even from very otherwise enlightened and progressive AA's in my community.

    I point to the controversy created by endorsement of Obama's position on gay marriage by the NAACP; AA Christian groups and individuals have pulled their memberships and / or decried the position and tried to change it.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/naacp-gay-marriage-same-sex_n_1668476.html
    So is part of the issue just a lack of AA men in the gay community?

    Lastly there is an inter-racial gay couple at my Church where there are few gay couples period but where there a lot of straight inter-racial couples. I now wonder if they are there rather than at a church with more gay couples.


    very insightful sir
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    Aug 30, 2012 1:59 AM GMT
    MadeinMich said
    HowHotKC said


    very insightful sir


    SIR! Now I feel old .... but delighted you liked what I said.
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Aug 30, 2012 2:01 AM GMT
    HowHotKC said
    MadeinMich said
    HowHotKC said


    very insightful sir


    SIR! Now I feel old .... but delighted you liked what I said.


    Sorry I meant it out of the highest form of respect. Posts like that is what I wrote the original post for. Thanks
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    Aug 30, 2012 2:17 AM GMT
    MadeinMich said
    HowHotKC said
    MadeinMich said
    HowHotKC said

    very insightful sir

    SIR! Now I feel old .... but delighted you liked what I said.

    Sorry I meant it out of the highest form of respect. Posts like that is what I wrote the original post for. Thanks

    Understand .... and no offense taken .... because I am older and proud of it
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    Aug 30, 2012 2:18 AM GMT
    JackKash said
    Just a month and half ago i was in Texas having dinner with these basic strangers who were well to do friends of a friend.. we had an awesome evening... and the two white boyfriends ended it with "You are so articulate for a black guy."


    What was your response?

    "Please, don't be surprised."
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    Aug 30, 2012 2:22 AM GMT
    I've lived in a small American town for 7 years now. It's really fucked my personal life over. I can't wait to leave soon.
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    Aug 30, 2012 2:35 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    JackKash said
    TroyAthlete said
    Precisely. Nope. WeHo is still far too segregated. My off-and-on and I are like unicorns when we go out, with the stares. Like how dare we bring our interracial act out in public. Or people going out of their way to compliment us, like we're civil rights martyrs. Ridiculous. He is visiting soon, we're due for another round of pointing and whispers. Fun fun.

    Count me in with those over these threads. I really don't get the 'why u no talk to me generic white guy?' consternation because I find guys with a little...ahem...flavor more attractive anyway (JUST A PREFERENCE). And by 'flavor' I don't mean non-white so much as non-WASP and non-cookie cutter -- black, Latino, French, Italian, Brazilian, Filipino, mixed, Jewish or Jewish-looking...yummy!

    My suggestion is to travel or move to South America or Europe. Relative to American gays, non-American gays are not so stuck on spending all their time with their twins. You will receive attention from a colorful assortment. Tasting the rainbow will repair your self-image and rebuild your self-esteem. Once (if) you return to the USA, you will have the self-confidence to not give a fuck, knowing that it's *really* not about you: it's about a collective and usually unattainable "all-American" fantasy ingrained from too many hours of watching Sean Cody porn. (A fantasy that, by the way, is going to leave many gay guys alone and bitter in retirement, poor things.) nbd


    Los Angeles is SO not diverse...you can easily see high principle ass looking white men with George Jefferson hair and maybe a comb over with attractive black latin and asian boyfriends who are just with them because at least they are with a white guy who is generally socially accepted and it feels nice to have that "in" socially...

    i do sort of believe in "acceptance breed change" ..because once you accept the reality you are in.. you can then navigate it as truth and occupy your space with good people.. or even avoid certain people altogether as an act of self preservation so you don't wind up bitter... like that of some black gay men who LOATHE white men... and throw the idea of interracial dating out with the bath water. I know of a few like that.

    However they still secretly jerk off to white porno.


    Hahaha, you're funny. Yeah, it's so true. A lot of LA's vaunted "diversity" is totally superficial. The city is very, very segregated by class, true.

    And, yes, the key is to stop whining and worrying, accept yourself, and surround yourself with good people. I feel so embarrassed for these gorgeous ethnic guys who would rather settle for an average white guy than date a better catch because of racial preferences, but to each his own. Not to mention the minorities who get so worked up about perceived slights that they come to "LOATHE" anybody who doesn't look like them. What a mess.


    It's not just a mess for the victim of rejection.

    Justified loathing is real. It's not about the skin color. It's about victimization witnessed--victimization of self, community, earning potential, and more.

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    Aug 30, 2012 3:47 AM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    JackKash said
    Just a month and half ago i was in Texas having dinner with these basic strangers who were well to do friends of a friend.. we had an awesome evening... and the two white boyfriends ended it with "You are so articulate for a black guy."


    What was your response?

    "Please, don't be surprised."


    Ya know.. i heard it so many times i gave other quirky responses that this time i kinda smiled at them and said "Oh is that right? Well I try." and waited for the response.. it was two couples. My friend left me with two white "married couples".. one butch couple and another femmy interior designy couple. Both were charmed.. both couples gave me firm hugs afterwards.. and both wanted to take this "articulate for a black guy home".. The butch couple kind of looked on in a little shock when the drunker of the femmy couple said what they said. That was the one who grope my ass in full view of his husband..who then hugged and grabbed my cock.

    I know the drill... To many white men a black man is only good for dick and something to put on pedestal and say "Aren't i liberal?" .. OR to feel better than completely.

    I can totally understand the black gays who go to the other end... and are like "I only date black men. fuck crackers.." they become untrust worthy of every friggin body. This is not productive behavior and you are becoming what you hate instead of finding balance and seeing ignorance for ignornace without color attached. In effect you become a black racist. It's tough though. I did have a "No white men allowed" phase for awhile after a barrage of bad experiences 5 years ago. But it was stupid and i regret how i acted during that period.
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    Aug 30, 2012 5:42 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    Another_Jeremy saidThe first thing I would advise you, is to recognize that some of the people gving you their opinions are disingenuous racists....[more racist blatherings]

    Not gonna lie....I howled at that, lol.icon_lol.gif

    user6133_pic34477_1326494238.jpg

    OP, from what I've read of you, you're more of a racist than scruffypuff (who is an idiot, but he's not a racist idiot). And A_J is a racist cunt on par with conservativejock. And that's really saying something, lol....'cos that guy is a fucking vile piece of shit who should have been deleted from RJ a loooooong time ago.


    YourName2000 is a liar and a moron.

    Our last interaction involved him calling me a pea brain for calling another poster a racist. When I listed half a dozen or so said commenter's racist posts (black people need to get over "it," terrorist references for middle eastern men, etc.) all of a sudden I was hyper sensitive and didn't need to pay attention to what other people were saying. When I confronted him with his obvious hypocrisy, he then proceeded to tell me he wasn't bored enough to entertain the discussion he entered (wrong though he was) of his own volition.

    In this thread he charged forth to call you and I racists, not address ANYTHING in your post and defend one of the most overt bigots on this website. Apparently you never got the memo about race relations work. It's black people who are the real racists.

    Expect these kinds of cavalier and intellectually bankrupt responses from indignant gay white men. Expect them to tell you that you're the racist, you're the one with the problem and that you just want white people to date you. It's a total coincidence that the only people they ever call out as racists are racial minorities. Just surround yourself with people who recognize that these idiots are the reason this problem is so pervasive. Selective tolerance and liberalism is very common among men who enjoy all societal privileges until they publicly announce that they like to suck dick.
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    Aug 30, 2012 6:10 AM GMT
    Shinra_Tensei saidPeople like Another_Jeremy are the reason some white guys still aren't into black guys even though tons of black guys have amazing bodies.


    People like Shinra_Tensei are the reason that racial minorities show little interest in the causes of the gay movement and that superficiality is the norm in the gay community.

    I guess the reason some christians have a problem with gay men is just because of all of the "gay whores?"

    I am not "black guys." I am one black man. If you're not "into black guys" it's not because of me sweetie. It's because you're a racist. Own it.

    Cheers!
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    Aug 30, 2012 6:13 AM GMT
    Ok i'm lost.. i don't know the history with Another Jeremy and the rest.. but i didn't read that he said ALL white people are racist or even inferred such.

    Sometimes talking about race issues in an open forum .. sometimes other white people will think you are saying "all white people" are racist.. instead of just honing in from your experience about a segment of the population and something that exists.. for conversation and sharing purposes.

    Just talking about white people who are racist does not make you racist. And even if a black guy says "White guys ______" i think most likely he's just kind of simplifying and doesn't mean White guys period. It's silly to assume any one race or type of person is 100% anything...


    When i do pop into race thread i' now completely aware i must be very directive in what i am saying and about whom...and why.
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    Aug 30, 2012 6:15 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    Shinra_Tensei saidPeople like Another_Jeremy are the reason some white guys still aren't into black guys even though tons of black guys have amazing bodies.

    Lol...on this, we can agree, Shinra.

    What blows my mind about self-absorbed douches like A_J is they assume every other white guy across the world is like the worst of "them" that they've met.

    Hey A_J: Get it through your thick skull (and that's not a racist comment, you douche): I AM CANADIAN. I didn't go through or get raised with all the racist shit the whities you hate did. I have never felt the way the whities you hate felt. I don't fuckin' understand why anyone would feel the way "they" or you would feel: you're all racist fucktards who are fucking with my zen. A pox on both your houses. icon_razz.gif

    icon_lol.gif


    And here's some truth for you.

    I knew you were Canadian.

    Your comments are still often reductive and racist.

    As for me hating white people, my family (and many of my closest friends) are white. I was one of the first interracial adoptions in the state of Arkansas.

    Moron.
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Aug 30, 2012 10:10 AM GMT
    Another_Jeremy said
    yourname2000 said
    Another_Jeremy saidThe first thing I would advise you, is to recognize that some of the people gving you their opinions are disingenuous racists....[more racist blatherings]

    Not gonna lie....I howled at that, lol.icon_lol.gif

    user6133_pic34477_1326494238.jpg

    OP, from what I've read of you, you're more of a racist than scruffypuff (who is an idiot, but he's not a racist idiot). And A_J is a racist cunt on par with conservativejock. And that's really saying something, lol....'cos that guy is a fucking vile piece of shit who should have been deleted from RJ a loooooong time ago.


    YourName2000 is a liar and a moron.

    Our last interaction involved him calling me a pea brain for calling another poster a racist. When I listed half a dozen or so said commenter's racist posts (black people need to get over "it," terrorist references for middle eastern men, etc.) all of a sudden I was hyper sensitive and didn't need to pay attention to what other people were saying. When I confronted him with his obvious hypocrisy, he then proceeded to tell me he wasn't bored enough to entertain the discussion he entered (wrong though he was) of his own volition.

    In this thread he charged forth to call you and I racists, not address ANYTHING in your post and defend one of the most overt bigots on this website. Apparently you never got the memo about race relations work. It's black people who are the real racists.

    Expect these kinds of cavalier and intellectually bankrupt responses from indignant gay white men. Expect them to tell you that you're the racist, you're the one with the problem and that you just want white people to date you. It's a total coincidence that the only people they ever call out as racists are racial minorities. Just surround yourself with people who recognize that these idiots are the reason this problem is so pervasive. Selective tolerance and liberalism is very common among men who enjoy all societal privileges until they publicly announce that they like to suck dick.


    I know, I read his post. And while I was initially tempted to respond negatively I figured this has been such an enlightening discussion I decided to ignore him. Him and I really haven't had the greatest history and I'm sure his intention is to take away from this board by igniting another flame war, and I'm not having any of that. There are too many intelligent people on this board to let him fuck it up.

    So just like you do a fly on the wall just Ignore His Posts and hopefully the little fucker will fly away.
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    Aug 30, 2012 2:32 PM GMT
    JackKash said
    StephenOABC said
    JackKash said
    ..... "You are so articulate for a black guy."

    What was your response?
    ...

    i heard it so many times i gave other quirky responses that this time i kinda smiled at them and said "Oh is that right? Well I try." and waited for the response.. .

    Good response. You could have easily slipped into 'angry black man' mode which would have been pointless and uncalled for in this situation. So many feel the need to flap their lips and say stupid shit in response thinking they are coming off smart or to 'slap that bitch down' for some ill perceived slight.