What do you think would make a perfect world?

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    Sep 06, 2012 1:56 PM GMT
    principal0 said
    Lash saidI recently picked up Plato's The Republic and was quickly fascinated by what Plato had to say about the existence of a perfect society. He basically stated that a perfect society would be one that is governed by
    a rare breed of philosophers who, not wishing power for their own purposes, can use it to check and control the desire for it in their subjects. The philosophers are not only reluctant rulers; they are also capable of gaining knowledge of what is good, as opposed to mere opinions and self-serving conventions that ordinary rulers value.

    – Melissa Lane


    So this got me thinking, for you guys personally, what would make a perfect society?


    Do you find it convenient that Plato sought to thrust power into the hands of those most like him? Reluctant rulers my ass. How boring and transparent.

    I think a more profound and interesting statement can be found in the famous philosopher Roland Orzabal, who said, "Everybody wants to rule the world."


    I feel where you're coming from icon_smile.gif
    Plato states that both democracies and oligarchies were in danger of being laid low by ambition for power. For him, preoccupied with civic unity and happiness, neither would serve. And it got me wondering, wouldn't putting the power over a society in the hands of a rare breed of philosophers be considered an oligarchy? Kinda sounds like a contradiction on his part lol
  • HottJoe

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    Sep 06, 2012 2:02 PM GMT
    Ariodante saidRecognition of ourselves in others.


    Is that me in your pocket, or just a banana?icon_razz.gif
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    Sep 06, 2012 2:33 PM GMT
    A government in complete control of our everyday lives with religion outlawed and all children brought up in state run propaganda centers. Any dissidence would be swiftly eliminated.

    Who said a perfect world was free and fun.
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    Sep 06, 2012 2:42 PM GMT
    DavidDB saidToo scared to answer this question in the way I'd truly like to.


    To again quote the philosopher Roland Orzabal:

    "SHOUT! SHOUT! LET IT ALL OUT."

    RJ forums are as good a place as any for 'Thinking Out Loud'. There is no authority here to judge your idea as either reasonable or absurd. So "LET IT ALL OUT."

    My own thoughts on PERFECTION for our society......are the same I use to guide my personal life:

    1. Stay focused on building a positive and healthy future. PLAN FOR THE FUTURE and prepare for it.


    2. Celebrate Today. LIFE, just as it is, is pretty good. SMILE. LAUGH. LOVE. We are here to help each other. What you've done to care for others is what's worth remembering.
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    Sep 06, 2012 2:51 PM GMT
    DudeInNOVA said
    principal0 saidDo you find it convenient that Plato sought to thrust power into the hands of those most like him? Reluctant rulers my ass. How boring and transparent.

    I think a more profound and interesting statement can be found in the famous philosopher Roland Orzabal, who said, "Everybody wants to rule the world."


    Thank you!

    No such thing will ever exist. Humans are too greedy and fallible. It is arrogant to think that any person or group of people have all the answers to creating a perfect society.

    Wow, Yes, These posts*.

    I don't believe in a Perfection. There are few absolutes that can be attributed to people.

    The only happiness with the rest of the world I've ever had was when I was happy for myself, in my own Being. Truth be told, IMHO*, accepting that the world and life aren't perfect at all, and loving life for all the bull it throws at you seems to be the only way for an individual to be relatively happy. If they can get passed the imperfect nature of life.
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    Sep 06, 2012 3:04 PM GMT
    Painted said
    principal0 said
    FitGwynedd said
    Painted said^ Move to Canada.


    I think that Canada trying to do the things I listed is why they have avoided the economic ruin that is plaguing the US right now. That being said, there is a lot I don't like about Canada. I would live there if offered a job, but my lifelong aspiration is not necessarily to live there. But its a nice place to visit every once in awhile.


    Canada has not avoided economic malaise because of some incredibly sage policy. Canada is a resource nation, and as asset prices have risen they have done quite well. Look at Australia - very different economic policy, same great economic results. Within the US, North Dakota is another example of a resource-driven state economy that is booming.


    Actually, Canada combines the best of socialistic ideals and free-market enterprise, which explains why our citizens have healthcare and quality of life is so much better than that of the US. Recession aside, Canada's banking was not as leveraged and un-regulated as the US.

    On top of that, apparently the stereotype "Dumb Americans" (or is that an oxymoron?) is best personified by the oblivious nature and belief held by people on this website that think a forum is a positive representation of a larger geographical sampling.


    Check and mate ;)
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    Sep 06, 2012 3:27 PM GMT
    First, Canada is FAR from perfect. I live here. I will not burden you with my LONG list of complaints. Nevertheless the US and Europe might learn from a few of the things Canada is doing right.

    Second, Plato became disillusioned with democracy, just like everyone else has -- as even democracy can degenerate into personal greed and love of power, rather than serving the common good.

    Third, our culture will not progress much as long as there is such a predominant personal philosophy of

    - look out for #1 (me)

    - if I don't stick up for myself, who will (implying that I am all alone against the world)

    - if I don't love myself, who will (implying that I am alone and unloved)

    - how can I love anyone if I don't love me (sorry, but human history is packed with ordinary folks who may not have been obsessed with themselves and who had great love for others. Self-love really helps with everything in life, but never use its absence as an excuse to hold back love for someone else.)

    - sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do (meaning: self advancement is the most holy crusade regardless of what it does to someone else)

    - sorry if you were offended by my words or actions (meaning: I do not take responsibility for what I have done, the problem is with your reaction)

    - Ayn Rand: the most noble goal is my own personal happiness, regardless of what that means for others.
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    Sep 06, 2012 3:33 PM GMT
    FitGwynedd said
    Painted said
    principal0 said
    FitGwynedd said
    Painted said^ Move to Canada.


    I think that Canada trying to do the things I listed is why they have avoided the economic ruin that is plaguing the US right now. That being said, there is a lot I don't like about Canada. I would live there if offered a job, but my lifelong aspiration is not necessarily to live there. But its a nice place to visit every once in awhile.


    Canada has not avoided economic malaise because of some incredibly sage policy. Canada is a resource nation, and as asset prices have risen they have done quite well. Look at Australia - very different economic policy, same great economic results. Within the US, North Dakota is another example of a resource-driven state economy that is booming.


    Actually, Canada combines the best of socialistic ideals and free-market enterprise, which explains why our citizens have healthcare and quality of life is so much better than that of the US. Recession aside, Canada's banking was not as leveraged and un-regulated as the US.

    On top of that, apparently the stereotype "Dumb Americans" (or is that an oxymoron?) is best personified by the oblivious nature and belief held by people on this website that think a forum is a positive representation of a larger geographical sampling.


    Check and mate ;)


    Soylent-Green-Breakfast-Cereal--60522.jp
    Did someone say, "samples"!?
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    Sep 06, 2012 3:46 PM GMT
    Cars and auto insurance is expensive in Canada. Boo.
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    Sep 06, 2012 4:17 PM GMT
    I took a philosophy class in college about utopias. We read both philosophical writings and utopian fiction. I didn't come out of it thinking that there was any possibility of a perfect society, because no one can agree on what constitutes perfection, the imperfection of humanity, and the strong possibility of unintended consequences.
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    Sep 06, 2012 4:38 PM GMT
    showme is right, perfection is subjective. If we were all the same, we could make a perfect world. But we're all different.

    But I think for a good start, if people wouldn't hate gays or blacks or any kind of people, we could think on real important things to make our society better. Discrimination is just a waste of time for everyone.
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    Sep 07, 2012 8:34 AM GMT
    Trollileo saidIf we didn't have a concept of perfection. Then it would be perfect.

    [/deep, over(un)thought, meta garbage]


    Damn you and your meta garbage this early in the morning...


    My honest answer is the entire kingdom of Wonka....

    My world of "Pure Imagination" where calories don't count. Yes I said it. Hate on...


    WillyWonka4.jpg
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    Sep 07, 2012 9:10 AM GMT
    McQueen saidIf humans didn't exist.

    ^ This.

    If it doesn't exist, society can't be imperfect.