The sadness in gay men's eyes

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    Sep 14, 2012 7:01 AM GMT
    ParadiseLost saidOh hell. :/ Now I gotta do a serious post but I doubt anyone will really read it.

    I think everyone longs to be understood. Gay men may come across various planes of difficulty when it acceptance-- both inside their community and outside of it. The world is still vastly intolerant with respect to gay/bi men. They have trouble fitting in if they come from small towns, from super/orthodox/conservative families backed by an equally repressive Abrahamic faith, and also have difficulty fitting in. There's been this "loss of identity" crisis in America for a while now and many still have yet to find a place they can truly fit and be unconditionally accepted and supported by individuals.

    If that wasn't bad enough, gays/bis often suffer from rejection within their own community too, as Principal alluded to. The stereotypes and demand of a certain appearance is an crucifying element in today's culture. "Swimming in the river of darkness, beneath the neon lights" some gay/bi men have become part of no one and nothing, immersing themselves in mainstream superficiality and nihilism.There are no structures of support, there are no beacons of light, no shoulders in which gay/bi men can stand upon except in their immediate environment. In my experience, they have no legacy except Stonewall and historical events which helped carve out a new century of acceptance in the 20th century.

    But who is our mentor? Where are our guiding posts? There really aren't any, at least, not for many gay/bi men. Without a moral high ground or support from their society, gay men often become lost and confused souls travelling between the worlds. Neither here, neither there. They become absorbed into the superficial reality constructed by gay/bi men, being young, looking good, and feeling good. My guess is there seems to be a correlation between appearance and confidence within the culture mostly because people rely on affirmation from their surroundings.

    Gay and Bi men are often the victims of rape, rejection, and broken families too.


    I read it. And it was quite good.
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:12 AM GMT
    "If that wasn't bad enough, gays/bis often suffer from rejection within their own community too, as Principal alluded to. The stereotypes and demand of a certain appearance is an crucifying element in today's culture. "Swimming in the river of darkness, beneath the neon lights" some gay/bi men have become part of no one and nothing, immersing themselves in mainstream superficiality and nihilism.There are no structures of support, there are no beacons of light, no shoulders in which gay/bi men can stand upon except in their immediate environment."

    My ears are burning.
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:23 AM GMT
    Just wanted to say that this is one of, if not the, most thought-provoking, truthful state of affairs, insightful posts I've ever come across on here.

    That we can discuss, explore it.. perhaps somehow come to terms or gain a perspective that has otherwise been elusive.... well, that is something of great worth.
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:31 AM GMT
    principal0 said
    ParadiseLost saidOh hell. :/ Now I gotta do a serious post but I doubt anyone will really read it.

    I think everyone longs to be understood. Gay men may come across various planes of difficulty when it acceptance-- both inside their community and outside of it. The world is still vastly intolerant with respect to gay/bi men. They have trouble fitting in if they come from small towns, from super/orthodox/conservative families backed by an equally repressive Abrahamic faith, and also have difficulty fitting in. There's been this "loss of identity" crisis in America for a while now and many still have yet to find a place they can truly fit and be unconditionally accepted and supported by individuals.

    If that wasn't bad enough, gays/bis often suffer from rejection within their own community too, as Principal alluded to. The stereotypes and demand of a certain appearance is an crucifying element in today's culture. "Swimming in the river of darkness, beneath the neon lights" some gay/bi men have become part of no one and nothing, immersing themselves in mainstream superficiality and nihilism.There are no structures of support, there are no beacons of light, no shoulders in which gay/bi men can stand upon except in their immediate environment. In my experience, they have no legacy except Stonewall and historical events which helped carve out a new century of acceptance in the 20th century.

    But who is our mentor? Where are our guiding posts? There really aren't any, at least, not for many gay/bi men. Without a moral high ground or support from their society, gay men often become lost and confused souls travelling between the worlds. Neither here, neither there. They become absorbed into the superficial reality constructed by gay/bi men, being young, looking good, and feeling good. My guess is there seems to be a correlation between appearance and confidence within the culture mostly because people rely on affirmation from their surroundings.

    Gay and Bi men are often the victims of rape, rejection, and broken families too.


    I read it. And it was quite good.


    Why thank you. icon_biggrin.gif Much appreciated. ;D I'd also like to add that--

    YOUR FACE IS QUITE GOOD. icon_evil.gif
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:32 AM GMT
    Elusium said"If that wasn't bad enough, gays/bis often suffer from rejection within their own community too, as Principal alluded to. The stereotypes and demand of a certain appearance is an crucifying element in today's culture. "Swimming in the river of darkness, beneath the neon lights" some gay/bi men have become part of no one and nothing, immersing themselves in mainstream superficiality and nihilism.There are no structures of support, there are no beacons of light, no shoulders in which gay/bi men can stand upon except in their immediate environment."

    My ears are burning.


    Why are your ears burning? icon_neutral.gif
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:36 AM GMT
    ParadiseLost saidThey become absorbed into the superficial reality constructed by gay/bi men, being young, looking good, and feeling good.



    What you're saying is that the gay community creates its own issues. That isn't far from the truth.
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:40 AM GMT
    ParadiseLost said
    Elusium said"If that wasn't bad enough, gays/bis often suffer from rejection within their own community too, as Principal alluded to. The stereotypes and demand of a certain appearance is an crucifying element in today's culture. "Swimming in the river of darkness, beneath the neon lights" some gay/bi men have become part of no one and nothing, immersing themselves in mainstream superficiality and nihilism.There are no structures of support, there are no beacons of light, no shoulders in which gay/bi men can stand upon except in their immediate environment."

    My ears are burning.


    Why are your ears burning? icon_neutral.gif


    It's an idiom. It's what you say when you feel that someone is talking about or describing you.
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:42 AM GMT
    ParadiseLost said
    principal0 said
    ParadiseLost saidOh hell. :/ Now I gotta do a serious post but I doubt anyone will really read it.

    I think everyone longs to be understood. Gay men may come across various planes of difficulty when it acceptance-- both inside their community and outside of it. The world is still vastly intolerant with respect to gay/bi men. They have trouble fitting in if they come from small towns, from super/orthodox/conservative families backed by an equally repressive Abrahamic faith, and also have difficulty fitting in. There's been this "loss of identity" crisis in America for a while now and many still have yet to find a place they can truly fit and be unconditionally accepted and supported by individuals.

    If that wasn't bad enough, gays/bis often suffer from rejection within their own community too, as Principal alluded to. The stereotypes and demand of a certain appearance is an crucifying element in today's culture. "Swimming in the river of darkness, beneath the neon lights" some gay/bi men have become part of no one and nothing, immersing themselves in mainstream superficiality and nihilism.There are no structures of support, there are no beacons of light, no shoulders in which gay/bi men can stand upon except in their immediate environment. In my experience, they have no legacy except Stonewall and historical events which helped carve out a new century of acceptance in the 20th century.

    But who is our mentor? Where are our guiding posts? There really aren't any, at least, not for many gay/bi men. Without a moral high ground or support from their society, gay men often become lost and confused souls travelling between the worlds. Neither here, neither there. They become absorbed into the superficial reality constructed by gay/bi men, being young, looking good, and feeling good. My guess is there seems to be a correlation between appearance and confidence within the culture mostly because people rely on affirmation from their surroundings.

    Gay and Bi men are often the victims of rape, rejection, and broken families too.


    I read it. And it was quite good.


    Why thank you. icon_biggrin.gif Much appreciated. ;D I'd also like to add that--

    YOUR FACE IS QUITE GOOD. icon_evil.gif


    Aww shucks. Thanks icon_smile.gif
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:47 AM GMT
    edmirer said
    ParadiseLost saidThey become absorbed into the superficial reality constructed by gay/bi men, being young, looking good, and feeling good.



    What you're saying is that the gay community creates its own issues. That isn't far from the truth.


    Essentially, yes. While we strive for equality we don't celebrate diversity-- so... that brings a question in my mind-- which sort of equality are gay/bi men fighting for? icon_confused.gif

    I constantly see people putting themselves in these vague binary constructions of "butch, masculine" and "campy and queeny". Identifying oneself isn't so much a problem of course, it's the negative attitudes that come with it-- often misogynistic and degrading to each other.

    There are theories to why that is (e.g. the nature & nurture of men) but why should that stop a person treating others with kindness and due respect that they deserve? Is respect really an alienable right given to the good looking and young? Gay/Bi men throw these elaborate parades trying to show their 'pride' but what does it measure up for when we're going behind the scenes tearing each other down?

    Where is our integrity?

    If we cared a little bit less about these extremes of whether the shoes are Coach or the guy can bench press his truck, I think we'd be a wee bit happier. icon_smile.gif I think one of the problems is though that people aren't even friendly to each other and try to stick to their 'base'. For many though who don't identify as either or and thus often may find difficulty finding footing in a G/B community that isn't out to shred them.

    This is just based on my observation of course here in DFW. I realize there may be other areas that are less retracted and are more open to each other regardless of age/identity/etc.
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:47 AM GMT
    Elusium said
    ParadiseLost said
    Elusium said"If that wasn't bad enough, gays/bis often suffer from rejection within their own community too, as Principal alluded to. The stereotypes and demand of a certain appearance is an crucifying element in today's culture. "Swimming in the river of darkness, beneath the neon lights" some gay/bi men have become part of no one and nothing, immersing themselves in mainstream superficiality and nihilism.There are no structures of support, there are no beacons of light, no shoulders in which gay/bi men can stand upon except in their immediate environment."

    My ears are burning.


    Why are your ears burning? icon_neutral.gif


    It's an idiom. It's what you say when you feel that someone is talking about or describing you.


    Ohh.. gotcha. icon_smile.gif American idioms sometimes sail right over my head. +D
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    Sep 14, 2012 7:51 AM GMT
    It's funny your first instinct is to want to hug us (sad-eyed fellows). I think in many cases (or mine at least) that's what we want more than anything, physically AND metaphorically. I went through such hell growing up and do still to this day, sometimes at the hands of my own family, I honestly just want someone who I can trust, someone who can wrap his arms around me and tell me it's OK and I'll believe him. Because if I keep trusting people only to be betrayed, I'm afraid one day I won't be able to trust anymore.
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    Sep 14, 2012 8:00 AM GMT
    I dedicate this song to every bloke in this thread:

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    Sep 14, 2012 8:09 AM GMT
    RoadsterRacer87 saidIt's funny your first instinct is to want to hug us (sad-eyed fellows). I think in many cases (or mine at least) that's what we want more than anything, physically AND metaphorically. I went through such hell growing up and do still to this day, sometimes at the hands of my own family, I honestly just want someone who I can trust, someone who can wrap his arms around me and tell me it's OK and I'll believe him. Because if I keep trusting people only to be betrayed, I'm afraid one day I won't be able to trust anymore.


    icon_sad.gif

    *Hugs* it's gonna be okay *gentle petting* icon_smile.gif

    pettingzoo.jpg
  • Bicuriouscool

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    Sep 14, 2012 8:55 AM GMT
    Straights are not called straight for no reason. There's always an inner {atleast slight} longing to be straight and not be gay. Even though having sex with a hot guy may bring happiness but deep down there's a constant feeble longing to be 'normal'.
    If you are straight you can hit on any girl you want to, if you are a gay you would mostly want to hit on a guy who is just out of your league(straight).
    In other words if you are gay you like so many straight guys, and they will start inching away from you the moment they find you are gay ( or atleast not be as frank as you want/they are with other straights).
    This feeling eats me up on the inside, hence i m always sad... if I had a wishing well i'd ask it to turn me straight.
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    Sep 14, 2012 9:23 AM GMT
    absolutely.[URL=http://s11.flagcounter.com/more/yMf][IMG]http://s11.flagcounter.com/count/yMf/bg_FFFFFF/txt_000000/border_CCCCCC/columns_2/maxflags_12/viewers_0/labels_0/pageviews_0/flags_0/[/IMG][/URL]
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    Sep 14, 2012 9:27 AM GMT
    When you point your finger at someone, 3 fingers are pointing back at you.
  • RollDontWalk

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    Sep 14, 2012 9:46 AM GMT
    yourname2000 saidI'm sorry God didn't hand you heaven on a silver platter....yeah, it's real heartbreaking. But here's an idea: get off you ass and go make this world what you want it to be....and when someone tells you "you can't do that", tell 'em to fuck off. Grow a pair then go get what's yours....and never let another human being ever treat you as second class....never stand at the back of the class and hope your name doesn't get called....take charge, take no prisoners, and conquer this fuckin' world.

    Until one reaches that conclusion and mindset, possibly around the same time they come out to themselves, they have spent most of their lives feeling different/inferior to the people around them. Everyone is impacted by their environment in some way, without consciously being aware of it, and those years of sadness can become part of one's countenance.
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    Sep 14, 2012 9:51 AM GMT
    yourname2000 saidJesus, you people love to wallow, don't ya. icon_rolleyes.gif

    This whole thread: load of crap. OP: when you meet every gay man and conduct a survey, feel free to generalize like you're doing. Otherwise you're just projecting your own bullshit self-loathing on the rest of us. Ooo....life is hard, whaaa.....I'm sad, so I guess everyone is, too. Fuck this bullshit, navel gazing, myopic, self-absorbed crap. Go fuckin' help out a homeless shelter....quit whining about your crap life "Oh, it took an extra 30 sec for my itunes to download....life's hard." "Gosh, no one at work commented on my new haircut...I guess they hate me." "Oh, the guy that makes googly eyes at me in the cafe already has a boyfriend...no one will ever love me, ever, forever...and I'm gonna die alone, boo hoo."

    I'm sorry God didn't hand you heaven on a silver platter....yeah, it's real heartbreaking. But here's an idea: get off you ass and go make this world what you want it to be....and when someone tells you "you can't do that", tell 'em to fuck off. Grow a pair then go get what's yours....and never let another human being ever treat you as second class....never stand at the back of the class and hope your name doesn't get called....take charge, take no prisoners, and conquer this fuckin' world.


    Thank fuck for some reasoning, my god I was reading down the page and couldnt believe the utter crap! Get off your arses and live YOUR LIFE! Every fucking human, god damn being on this planet has issues! Its your decision to lay there and let it take you over stop using being gay as an excuse for your problems. icon_rolleyes.gificon_evil.gif

    And OP where are your eyes hmm?
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    Sep 14, 2012 9:55 AM GMT
    yourname2000 saidJesus, you people love to wallow, don't ya. icon_rolleyes.gif

    This whole thread: load of crap. OP: when you meet every gay man and conduct a survey, feel free to generalize like you're doing. Otherwise you're just projecting your own bullshit self-loathing on the rest of us. Ooo....life is hard, whaaa.....I'm sad, so I guess everyone is, too. Fuck this bullshit, navel gazing, myopic, self-absorbed crap. Go fuckin' help out a homeless shelter....quit whining about your crap life "Oh, it took an extra 30 sec for my itunes to download....life's hard." "Gosh, no one at work commented on my new haircut...I guess they hate me." "Oh, the guy that makes googly eyes at me in the cafe already has a boyfriend...no one will ever love me, ever, forever...and I'm gonna die alone, boo hoo."

    I'm sorry God didn't hand you heaven on a silver platter....yeah, it's real heartbreaking. But here's an idea: get off you ass and go make this world what you want it to be....and when someone tells you "you can't do that", tell 'em to fuck off. Grow a pair then go get what's yours....and never let another human being ever treat you as second class....never stand at the back of the class and hope your name doesn't get called....take charge, take no prisoners, and conquer this fuckin' world.


    You're free to disagree but:

    I think life is a balance. It's not always about playing "hard ball" and fucking your way through everything by being a control freak and taking initiative. Helping the helpless/homeless does feel great and you're doing something that is commendable, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't fix your own problems you bear on your shoulder. Ignoring those things is just as stupid (if not worse) than wallowing in them.

    However, I also think you are making some generalizations about the OP too. He's not saying "my life sucks and I see the suckiness in other people's lives." He simply stated his observation about how he encounters many individuals with sadness in their eyes. The pain in which their heart is burdened with won't be remedied by simple acts or gestures of kindness. Nor will it be remedied by the progression of one's ambition (e.g. "conquer this fuckin' world"). He even stated how he wish he could help them, not throw a pity party with them and open some tubs of ice cream. icon_confused.gif

    Understanding and acceptance-- it doesn't come with achievement or with heralds but with time and patience. If you're one who can accept everyone and do your best to relate to them, that's 2/3rds of the battle. The last part is to embrace them. icon_smile.gif Sometimes the most overwhelming sense of these three comes from smiling at a person, treating them with kindness, and sincerity. There is no sincerity if you're only fighting for yourself AND (hence the 'and') care about the people around you (or at least those who aren't maliciously trying to bleed you out).

    When you pause, for just a moment, you may realize that all these people you've been fighting against aren't really that different from yourself. That may, just maybe, what we need is a little bit more kindness? A pinch more sincerity?

    After all, you can run all you want, battle all the fiercest men/women of the world, conquer the landscape but still be losing against the demons of your heart; because you're too busy being saturated by what's happening around you that you begin to forget what's happening inside of you-- maybe deliberately.

    icon_smile.gif
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    Sep 14, 2012 9:59 AM GMT
    ParadiseLost said
    yourname2000 saidJesus, you people love to wallow, don't ya. icon_rolleyes.gif

    This whole thread: load of crap. OP: when you meet every gay man and conduct a survey, feel free to generalize like you're doing. Otherwise you're just projecting your own bullshit self-loathing on the rest of us. Ooo....life is hard, whaaa.....I'm sad, so I guess everyone is, too. Fuck this bullshit, navel gazing, myopic, self-absorbed crap. Go fuckin' help out a homeless shelter....quit whining about your crap life "Oh, it took an extra 30 sec for my itunes to download....life's hard." "Gosh, no one at work commented on my new haircut...I guess they hate me." "Oh, the guy that makes googly eyes at me in the cafe already has a boyfriend...no one will ever love me, ever, forever...and I'm gonna die alone, boo hoo."

    I'm sorry God didn't hand you heaven on a silver platter....yeah, it's real heartbreaking. But here's an idea: get off you ass and go make this world what you want it to be....and when someone tells you "you can't do that", tell 'em to fuck off. Grow a pair then go get what's yours....and never let another human being ever treat you as second class....never stand at the back of the class and hope your name doesn't get called....take charge, take no prisoners, and conquer this fuckin' world.


    You're free to disagree but:

    I think life is a balance. It's not always about playing "hard ball" and fucking your way through everything by being a control freak and taking initiative. Helping the helpless/homeless does feel great and you're doing something that is commendable, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't fix your own problems you bear on your shoulder. Ignoring those things is just as stupid (if not worse) than wallowing in them.

    However, I also think you are making some generalizations about the OP too. He's not saying "my life sucks and I see the suckiness in other people's lives." He simply stated his observation about how he encounters many individuals with sadness in their eyes. The pain in which their heart is burdened with won't be remedied by simple acts or gestures of kindness. Nor will it be remedied by the progression of one's ambition (e.g. "conquer this fuckin' world"). He even stated how he wish he could help them, not throw a pity party with them and open some tubs of ice cream. icon_confused.gif

    Understanding and acceptance-- it doesn't come with achievement or with heralds but with time and patience. If you're one who can accept everyone and do your best to relate to them, that's 2/3rds of the battle. The last part is to embrace them. icon_smile.gif Sometimes the most overwhelming sense of these three comes from smiling at a person, treating them with kindness, and sincerity. There is no sincerity if you're only fighting for yourself AND (hence the 'and') care about the people around you (or at least those who aren't maliciously trying to bleed you out).

    When you pause, for just a moment, you may realize that all these people you've been fighting against aren't really that different from yourself. That may, just maybe, what we need is a little bit more kindness? A pinch more sincerity?

    After all, you can run all you want, battle all the fiercest men/women of the world, conquer the landscape but still be losing against the demons of your heart; because you're too busy being saturated by what's happening around you that you begin to forget what's happening inside of you-- maybe deliberately.

    icon_smile.gif



    No you can disagree "but" ( which means ???)

    Every human being has issues not just the gay ones, grow up and look around you there is an entire world out there not all the sad people are gay.
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    Sep 14, 2012 10:06 AM GMT
    northoz said


    No you can disagree "but" ( which means ???)

    Every human being has issues not just the gay ones, grow up and look around you there is an entire world out there not all the sad people are gay.


    "You're free to disagree but: I think... "

    It means that you can disagree with me but this is what I think. icon_smile.gif

    And, yes, of course every human being have issues in their lives. icon_smile.gif I don't think the OP said that "I noticed that it's ONLY gay people that have this problem." He just stated "There are so many gay men that I meet, and they would have this sadness in their eyes." He's likely speaking from his past interactions and also speaking very specifically given how he only brings up gay men. It's like someone saying, "There were a lot of veterans I met who seemed to have a troubled look in their eyes." Is it just veterans who have this look? Most likely not. That said, I can't speak much more than what he's stated. Maybe he's met heterosexuals in the same boat? Maybe not? I dunno. icon_smile.gif I don't think he's wallowing in self-pity or whatever else if he just is sharing what he's seen other gay men drag behind emotional baggage.

    No need to get upset, right? icon_biggrin.gif Just a friendly discussion?

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    Sep 14, 2012 10:07 AM GMT
    Where r u that ur observing this trend?

    When I was younger I used to think Asian ppl always gave dirty looks but eventually I grew up and realized its just their slanty eyes
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    Sep 14, 2012 10:12 AM GMT
    Fasterpace saidWhere r u that ur observing this trend?

    When I was younger I used to think Asian ppl always gave dirty looks but eventually I grew up and realized its just their slanty eyes


    LMAO. +D Hoooo... that's terrible (and yet I laugh >_<). Sadly, one of my other friends stated the same thing. icon_neutral.gif

    Although I know from personal experience (especially working in family-owned Chinese restaurants), there do talk about you-- but I don't think it's because they're Asian. I think it's because they're bitches. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 14, 2012 10:40 AM GMT
    Last time I saw you
    We had just split in two.
    You were looking at me.
    I was looking at you.
    You had a way so familiar,
    But I could not recognize,
    Cause you had blood on your face;
    I had blood in my eyes.
    But I could swear by your expression
    That the pain down in your soul
    Was the same as the one down in mine.
    That's the pain,
    Cuts a straight line
    Down through the heart;
    We called it love.


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    Sep 14, 2012 10:54 AM GMT
    theantijock saidLast time I saw you
    We had just split in two.
    You were looking at me.
    I was looking at you.
    You had a way so familiar,
    But I could not recognize,
    Cause you had blood on your face;
    I had blood in my eyes.
    But I could swear by your expression
    That the pain down in your soul
    Was the same as the one down in mine.
    That's the pain,
    Cuts a straight line
    Down through the heart;
    We called it love.




    Jason, has anyone ever told you how beautiful you are? icon_biggrin.gif

    Because you really are. icon_smile.gif