Do you think American society is degrading?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 22, 2012 6:29 PM GMT
    smartmoney saidKeep in mind, most Americans are fat, stupid and lazy.


    I totally disagree.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Sep 22, 2012 6:31 PM GMT
    str8hardbody9 said
    smartmoney saidKeep in mind, most Americans are fat, stupid and lazy.


    I totally disagree.


    then ur at least stupid

    j/k
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Sep 22, 2012 6:32 PM GMT
    JamieJfromtheA saidIt's a tossup for me, basically in the past of American culture people did what they were told and believed what they were taught.

    Many did not dare to ask why, or question or dare to be different.
    Now adays people are so diverse that they cannot help feeling the need to break free.

    Older people tend to be oppressive, towards diversity at all. So when that happens you have rebellion. Which can cause animoscity and hatred,and other destructive things.

    The recent parents in the past 20 years have dropped the ball. Resentment of their parents and lifes causes drama and abuse and bad relatinships with their children and so on and so on, its a vicious cycle.

    Remember when being a virgin was a good thing.

    Now people are afraid to say they are for being called a loser.

    When smoking and drugs and such were not cool.

    I don't think it has anything to do with degradation.

    I think conformity is what it is all about. If being nice and respectful and such was "in" then I am sure most would be.

    We don't have parents teaching children morals and honor and such now adays because most parents are children themselves

    in a world where teen mom and 16 and preganant, bad girls club are hit shows. These women become celebs for making mistakes and broadcasting in on tv. celebrity rehab, etc. People are being brainwashed and manipulated to think this stuff is ok.

    I think it's a tossup, because many are more tolerant than in the past, but I just think values and standards are almost non existant.


    Uuuum, as far as I know, no one forced you to lose your virginity, unless you were raped.icon_confused.gif

    Also, smoking/boozing/etc have always been "cool." Look at the poets from the victorian era; they were drinking absynthe!!! Honestly, I suspect that you're confusing your own (sheltered?) childhood with the general public. Take off the rose colored glasses and look back on history. You'll see people have always done dangerous things. The church has always tried to stomp out premartital sex and gayness, with zero success.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Sep 22, 2012 6:50 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    people have always done dangerous things. The church has always tried to stomp out premartital sex and gayness, with zero success.


    gayness is dangerous? i had no idea....
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Sep 22, 2012 7:01 PM GMT
    thadjock said
    HottJoe said
    people have always done dangerous things. The church has always tried to stomp out premartital sex and gayness, with zero success.


    gayness is dangerous? i had no idea....


    You know, crack, gay sex, rated R movies, jaywalking, they all fall in the same catagory, LOL
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 22, 2012 7:03 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    JamieJfromtheA saidIt's a tossup for me, basically in the past of American culture people did what they were told and believed what they were taught.

    Many did not dare to ask why, or question or dare to be different.
    Now adays people are so diverse that they cannot help feeling the need to break free.

    Older people tend to be oppressive, towards diversity at all. So when that happens you have rebellion. Which can cause animoscity and hatred,and other destructive things.

    The recent parents in the past 20 years have dropped the ball. Resentment of their parents and lifes causes drama and abuse and bad relatinships with their children and so on and so on, its a vicious cycle.

    Remember when being a virgin was a good thing.

    Now people are afraid to say they are for being called a loser.

    When smoking and drugs and such were not cool.

    I don't think it has anything to do with degradation.

    I think conformity is what it is all about. If being nice and respectful and such was "in" then I am sure most would be.

    We don't have parents teaching children morals and honor and such now adays because most parents are children themselves

    in a world where teen mom and 16 and preganant, bad girls club are hit shows. These women become celebs for making mistakes and broadcasting in on tv. celebrity rehab, etc. People are being brainwashed and manipulated to think this stuff is ok.

    I think it's a tossup, because many are more tolerant than in the past, but I just think values and standards are almost non existant.


    Uuuum, as far as I know, no one forced you to lose your virginity, unless you were raped.icon_confused.gif

    Also, smoking/boozing/etc have always been "cool." Look at the poets from the victorian era; they were drinking absynthe!!! Honestly, I suspect that you're confusing your own (sheltered?) childhood with the general public. Take off the rose colored glasses and look back on history. You'll see people have always done dangerous things. The church has always tried to stomp out premartital sex and gayness, with zero success.


    umm

    1, I am a virgin, still... and

    Yeah when we think of American Culture...we all go straight to the victorian era. lol

    Did you know there was a time where even comic books were censored.
    We have different opinions, and I am not going to get into a needless arguement.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 22, 2012 7:04 PM GMT
    thadjock said
    str8hardbody9 said
    smartmoney saidKeep in mind, most Americans are fat, stupid and lazy.


    I totally disagree.


    then ur at least stupid

    j/k


    you are the epitome of why the world hates America.
    An arrogant, ignorant, ugly, know-it-all. icon_biggrin.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Sep 22, 2012 7:07 PM GMT
    JamieJfromtheA said
    HottJoe said
    JamieJfromtheA saidIt's a tossup for me, basically in the past of American culture people did what they were told and believed what they were taught.

    Many did not dare to ask why, or question or dare to be different.
    Now adays people are so diverse that they cannot help feeling the need to break free.

    Older people tend to be oppressive, towards diversity at all. So when that happens you have rebellion. Which can cause animoscity and hatred,and other destructive things.

    The recent parents in the past 20 years have dropped the ball. Resentment of their parents and lifes causes drama and abuse and bad relatinships with their children and so on and so on, its a vicious cycle.

    Remember when being a virgin was a good thing.

    Now people are afraid to say they are for being called a loser.

    When smoking and drugs and such were not cool.

    I don't think it has anything to do with degradation.

    I think conformity is what it is all about. If being nice and respectful and such was "in" then I am sure most would be.

    We don't have parents teaching children morals and honor and such now adays because most parents are children themselves

    in a world where teen mom and 16 and preganant, bad girls club are hit shows. These women become celebs for making mistakes and broadcasting in on tv. celebrity rehab, etc. People are being brainwashed and manipulated to think this stuff is ok.

    I think it's a tossup, because many are more tolerant than in the past, but I just think values and standards are almost non existant.


    Uuuum, as far as I know, no one forced you to lose your virginity, unless you were raped.icon_confused.gif

    Also, smoking/boozing/etc have always been "cool." Look at the poets from the victorian era; they were drinking absynthe!!! Honestly, I suspect that you're confusing your own (sheltered?) childhood with the general public. Take off the rose colored glasses and look back on history. You'll see people have always done dangerous things. The church has always tried to stomp out premartital sex and gayness, with zero success.


    umm

    1, I am a virgin, still... and

    Yeah when we think of American Culture...we all go straight to the victorian era. lol

    Did you know there was a time where even comic books were censored.
    We have different opinions, and I am not going to get into a needless arguement.


    You still can't say FUCK on the radio. We're very censored to this day.

    And I figured you were a virgin. icon_wink.gif
  • Hazuki

    Posts: 21

    Sep 22, 2012 7:08 PM GMT
    Wonderful and thought provoking question Boris. I would have liked to have seen it in a different context though (perhaps a look at the culture and cultural attitudes and standards within the United States as they have progressed over the course of the history of the United States as a country. It would be best to include relevant information regarding changes in culture and the reasons for such shifts). As it is, the comparison is unfair…or rather, serves more to defeat the real issues central to the question. I would better understand if you were giving the same detailed (or general) examples of two societies in juxtaposition, or even detailed examples of cultural practices and/or trends within the same society at different times in that society’s history, but you gave a very specific incident of a very specific sector of a specific culture (employee training—service sector—airline industry—Japanese business—in Japan) and compared it to something quite general (degradation of American society). I am also not sure by what measure you use to determine and define “degradation”. It is true, the culture of the United States has changed over the years, but I am not sure I can honestly say there was a time when it was “more respectful” in the past, being a descendent of both those who were forced from their lands, denied their traditional culture and way of life, and those who were stolen, brought over in chains, beat, raped, and murdered (among other things) relentlessly for generations.

    I have lived in Japan for many years. I do not doubt the things your cousin experienced, however I think it may be best to keep the following in mind: there is a difference between the expression of honest, heartfelt sentiment and the expression of politeness and civility as required/dictated by one’s culture.

    I am certain the trainees met your cousin, but only because they were required to do so. As trainees in a Japanese company, they are at the bottom rung of the corporate ladder (if they have THAT much status), and as such, it is “understood” that they will have to do things that they neither want, nor by any measure of reason should have to do, simply because they occupy the lowest position in the company hierarchy. Unfortunately this includes performing work functions and work related duties on what is supposed to be their day off. (as an aside, it is quite telling how important the officials/higher ups of this company regarded your cousin…as had your cousin been deemed to be a personage of any rank/worth as far as rank, someone of equal rank would have been there personally to greet her).

    Bowing is something shared by many cultures…as is standing when a teacher enters or leaves a classroom. Again, in Japan, this is more a reflection of traditional customs rather than a reflection of personal opinion of the teacher specifically. Since your cousin was in the role of “teacher” , by cultural mandate she must be treated as such (In Japan, as in many cultures, those who taught were held in high esteem…and even though this is true in present day Japanese culture to a somewhat lesser degree, sadly there are those who enter the profession nowadays just so they can be the objects of such esteem—imagined or otherwise—by their peers). Especially in any Japanese company, the employees are expected to show their best behavior and do nothing that would reflect badly upon the company, their superiors, or Japan in general. Please note the words “show” and “behavior”. It may very well be that each student was genuinely being nice and really enjoyed your cousin as a person…this we can never know…I think it more likely they were behaving as they were expected and trained (yes at many companies in Japan the new hires are still instructed in “manners” and how to “receive guests” as part of their training. Especially at large companies like airlines, it goes without saying the employees go through this training…it all serves to better the company’s public face.)

    Discipline by respecting elders and the person in charge? Yes, we’ve come to a very tricky aspect of cultural debate. Again, the same is true of many cultures (even within the different cultures/ethnic groups of the United States, for example), but we have to look more closely at the meaning of “respect”. For a student to offer their seat on a train to an elder during rush hour in Tokyo because of compassion and empathy or because they know somehow someone will look down upon them, their parents, their family, and/or their school or word about the incident would travel somehow (maybe even going so far as to have someone contact their school just to tell them how disappointed they were that their students behaved so disgracefully, “what are you teaching kids nowadays!?”—you laugh, but I kid you not…note, nowhere in this conversation does it occur to either party to ask why the complaining party didn’t offer their seat instead) are two very different things…though the actions appear to be very similar. The same can be said for a younger person remaining quiet in the face of an elder very vocally expressing unfair, biased, blatantly wrong or ignorant views.

    As far as safety is concerned, bad things happen everywhere (for our purposes here we will not include natural disasters like earthquakes, etc.). Many people—when comparing safety in Japan and the United States—like to cite examples of gun violence, or physical violence. I think Japan is as violent—if not more—than the United States. The difference—and this is the key—is that the violence in Japan is usually non-physical, and definitely not immediately recognizable to the untrained eye. This is not to say that Japan does not have its share of guns (or drugs or whatever, these are readily available if you have the right connections) or that you will not see signs of physical violence, because you will if you know how to look and know exactly what you are looking for. But the violence I witnessed in Japan year after year was more psychological…people behaving in certain ways because they felt they “had to”, or feeling as if they were always evaluated and scrutinized by their peers, or running themselves ragged in a twisted game of keeping up appearances. Feeling as if you are always watched, or always keep a public face, or must always crush your true wishes for something other than oneself—often something very abstract and indefinable, like “social convention”— causes a great deal of stress. Many people deal with this stress through indulgence in alcohol—also so readily available—or other pursuits. People cut themselves, they become addicted to medications, gambling, shopping, shoplifting, sex or other things. They become physically, verbally, or psychologically abusive towards others (neighbors, peers, pets, family members—especially children or their elderly relatives), they become very depressed (taking months or in some cases years off of work) and they also commit suicide. Japan is a nation with a very high rate of suicide (suicide has LONG been a part of Japanese culture, and this topic in and of itself could be a different thread for sure!). Also, more and more Japanese society is experiencing incidences of individuals lashing out in physically violent ways. When interrogated by the police the perpetrators almost always answer that they “didn’t care who it was” but that they just “wanted to hurt someone”.

    Thankfully, I have never been physically assaulted on the streets in either the United States or Japan. But I have also never been stopped on the street, asked to show my identification/immigration status, and interrogated as to what I was doing walking down the street on a weekday, where I was going, what I was doing, or why I was outside sitting by the river in the United States. I have also never experienced the humiliation of being publicly detained for over an hour on the road in full view of the community by the police with their patrol car (
  • Hazuki

    Posts: 21

    Sep 22, 2012 7:10 PM GMT
    I got cut off...here is the rest

    (and their lights flashing) while they check my status, and call in two other groups to re-check my information (though they have all the relevant information of everyone in the neighborhood already when you move in) in the United States. This has happened to me multiple times in Japan, and as someone who cannot physically pass as Japanese, I feel unsafe walking the streets of Japan knowing that any moment I can be detained and interrogated by the police…BY LAW! They have this right (they always had the right to ask for your “Alien Registration Card”, but in practice this almost NEVER happened unless you were doing something “suspicious”. From 2005/2006 under the auspices of “controlling illegal immigration” —and also being better able to combat “terrorism” I think—things were changed so that the police would take a more active role in questioning foreign nationals. It doesn’t just happen in Tokyo or urban areas, and it almost ALWAYS happens to those who cannot pass as Japanese). In what ways specifically I wonder, do the people you were talking about feel “unsafe” in the United States, and where specifically do they reside????

    Concerning leaving things of value, and getting them back, honestly that depends SOOOO much on the locale and the individual who either makes the decision to: take action, or take no action. I think your story of your phone on the beach is a BEAUTIFUL example of people minding their own business…I see it as a “it is not mine, so I have no business touching it” way of thinking. In such an environment, of course, the owner would eventually find their possession. I have a friend who left her computer on a train, only to have a fellow passenger contact her—through Facebook no less!—and mail it back. I know people who have pocketed envelopes of money they have seen just lying on the ground. And I have also known shopkeepers who will chase down customers who leave things behind—or hold it for them when they eventually trace back their steps, and return to claim their possession. It just depends.

    Sorry this is so long, but—as you can see—I have experience with Japan, and thought I might be able to provide better insight.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 22, 2012 7:13 PM GMT
    Very insightful, but geez I thought I had long post.

    but never have I been cut off lol

    btw HottJoe, you know Bitch, and Dick are not censored on tv anymore.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Sep 22, 2012 7:14 PM GMT
    Import said
    thadjock said
    str8hardbody9 said
    smartmoney saidKeep in mind, most Americans are fat, stupid and lazy.


    I totally disagree.


    then ur at least stupid

    j/k


    you are the epitome of why the world hates America.
    An arrogant, ignorant, ugly, know-it-all. icon_biggrin.gif


    and ur confused, that was smart money's quote, i was mocking him
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Sep 22, 2012 7:15 PM GMT
    JamieJfromtheA saidVery insightful, but geez I thought I had long post.

    but never have I been cut off lol

    btw HottJoe, you know Bitch, and Dick are not censored on tv anymore.


    Oh, Jamie, I <3 you. icon_razz.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 23, 2012 1:45 AM GMT
    Hell yea them bad azss kids need to start getting there ass beaticon_twisted.gificon_evil.gificon_twisted.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 23, 2012 2:25 AM GMT
    smartmoney saidKeep in mind, most Americans are fat, stupid and lazy.


    You are such a fuckin douche bag.

    It's kinda turning me on. Can i sit on your lap????icon_twisted.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 23, 2012 2:30 AM GMT
    apc135 said

    You're Top Shelf, man. icon_cool.gificon_cool.gificon_cool.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 23, 2012 2:35 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidI fail to see what training people to act like Pavlovs dog has to do with degradation of a society. Obviously our society is superior to all the others or people would not keep moving here. A step-in-place society is inferior because like sheep, when you follow one that jumps off of a cliff, all of them jump off the cliff.


    Reality check dude...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 23, 2012 2:38 AM GMT
  • ohioguy12

    Posts: 2024

    Sep 23, 2012 2:39 AM GMT
    I love American bashing. Especially when most are probably drinking starbucks coffee, and using a computer from an American company.

    I'm surprised nobody has criticized us for calling ourselves Americans instead of United States of Americans.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 23, 2012 2:41 AM GMT
    ohioguy12 saidI love American bashing. Especially when most are probably drinking starbucks coffee, and using a computer from an American company.

    I'm surprised nobody has criticized us for calling ourselves Americans instead of United States of Americans.


    And RJ is an American site!!!


    It is, right????icon_eek.gif
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Sep 23, 2012 2:45 AM GMT
    ok, i take offense to your statement about our gun and rap comment. i happen to like rap. rap is great music. i do agree with other statements in your thread but leave rap alone. oh and guns can not kill anyone unless there is a idiot holding it.
  • ohioguy12

    Posts: 2024

    Sep 23, 2012 2:47 AM GMT
    back-to-back-world-war-basedt.png
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 23, 2012 2:49 AM GMT
    wrestlervic said


    FUCKING LOVE this film...

    ... and it's so telling of America.

    Few American's have the educational discipline to survive the dangers of the world. Money is a first-line of defense... and one generally has to be smart to be able to make the money in sufficient amounts to protect himself, family and future generations.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 23, 2012 2:51 AM GMT
    ohioguy12 saidI love American bashing. Especially when most are probably drinking starbucks coffee, and using a computer from an American company.

    I'm surprised nobody has criticized us for calling ourselves Americans instead of United States of Americans.


    Say you're an American anywhere else in the world and they'll most probably look down on you. It's NOT what it used to be... at all.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11422

    Sep 23, 2012 2:51 AM GMT
    obviously people have no life on here that they can just dribble on and on about how the US sucksicon_rolleyes.gif