Romney: Hospital Visitation For Gay Couples Are ‘Benefits’ Not Rights

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    Oct 22, 2012 5:20 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    musicbox89 saidMitt Romney represents the former, where he wants to strip a specific minority group of obtaining equal rights and legal protection/representation in the society.


    My suggestion is that you take Mitt Romney for what he says --- his actual words --- and don't fall prey to the ample amount of propaganda (some evidenced here by the OP) that go well beyond his actual intention. Yes, it's true, and it's no secret, and something that Mitt has not really ever wavered on, he is against Gay Marriage -- more specifically he is an advocate for the preservation of the traditional definition of marriage which is to say that it is "between a man and a woman". This is a far cry from the broader generalization you and so many other incorrectly make that Mitt Romney wants to "strip a specific minority group of obtaining equal rights and legal protection/representation in the society". It should be noted that, regardless of how Mitt Romney, or Barrack Obama, or any other person who is our POTUS feels, "gay issues" are not going to be up to them. Secondly, being pro-preservation of the traditional definition of marriage does not make someone a hater of gays, or against the legal protection of gays. Granted, you and others are certainly free to interpret and extrapolate from what Mitt Romney actually says and make it mean whatever you choose. I just don't happen to agree.


    Ever heard of a saying, "Actions speak louder than words?" Well, I like that one, but it doesn't always work. I didn't thoroughly follow through this entire presidential campaign,but I have read extensive number of articles and public commentary on each candidate.
    Recently, I watched the following video on youtube covering the 2nd Presidential Town Hall Debate:

    [url][/url]

    While I may be a poor judge of character, cues that I received from this debate were not very positive. I found Mitt Romney to be very disrespectful when he was answering the questions raised by the audience. He failed to connect with the public, didn't answer questions fully and dodged some others. He focused more of his time demonizing Obama than thoughtfully answering questions and concerns raised by the audience in front of him.

    Besides his sexist remarks, a perfect example started at very beginning of debate when he addressed students' question (1:15-3:35). He provided no tangible info on how he will help the young, college educated citizens prosper in this country.

    His approach clearly demonstrates what kind of person he is and I find his ideologies/beliefs to be of worrisome nature.
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    Oct 22, 2012 5:22 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    musicbox89 saidMitt Romney represents the former, where he wants to strip a specific minority group of obtaining equal rights and legal protection/representation in the society.


    My suggestion is that you take Mitt Romney for what he says --- his actual words --- and don't fall prey to the ample amount of propaganda (some evidenced here by the OP) that go well beyond his actual intention. Yes, it's true, and it's no secret, and something that Mitt has not really ever wavered on, he is against Gay Marriage -- more specifically he is an advocate for the preservation of the traditional definition of marriage which is to say that it is "between a man and a woman". This is a far cry from the broader generalization you and so many other incorrectly make that Mitt Romney wants to "strip a specific minority group of obtaining equal rights and legal protection/representation in the society". It should be noted that, regardless of how Mitt Romney, or Barrack Obama, or any other person who is our POTUS feels, "gay issues" are not going to be up to them. Secondly, being pro-preservation of the traditional definition of marriage does not make someone a hater of gays, or against the legal protection of gays. Granted, you and others are certainly free to interpret and extrapolate from what Mitt Romney actually says and make it mean whatever you choose. I just don't happen to agree.


    CJAZ's visible means of support is selling real estate, so I think we can safely assume the repubs are spending their campaign dollars elsewhere. Of course the AZ real estate market is running on life support, but maybe he can sell a listing here or there.

    I've seen Romney on video specifically stating that he was not in favor of civil unions for same sex couples if it granted all the same rights as marriage, and was just like marriage under a different name. This shows that CJAZ is wrong in his assertion that Romney is okay with gays having equal protection under the law.

    As for taking Romney at his word, I am unable to do so because he changes his message depending on the audience. He seems to be a man with no real core who would say anything to get elected. Rather than take his word at face value, I have to look at his statements critically and form my own opinions on what he'd likely attempt to do, since his words don't seem credible and consistent to me.
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    Oct 22, 2012 5:23 PM GMT

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    "Binder full of women!"
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    Oct 22, 2012 6:15 PM GMT
    Here's something I posted on another thread:
    "So who might a President Romney pick for the Court? In 2007, Romney said he admired President George W. Bush's choices of Justices John Roberts and Samuel Alito, suggesting he would opt for a reliably conservative justice rather than a more middle-of-the-road one like Kennedy or former Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. "I respect legal scholars of all backgrounds, but those who are going to be on the bench, if I were lucky enough to appoint them, would be people who believe their job is to follow the law and follow the Constitution," Romney said then. During this primary season, Romney noted that he would appoint federal judges who oppose gay marriage."

    Then I asked: Someone please explain the humor to me in gay individuals who support a man and his running mate who have both vocalized their opinions against gay marriage to the point of amending the constitution, said that gays do not deserve marriage like equality such as civil unions (ryan), voted no in congress to repeal DODT, voted to disallow gay adoptions, and support the ban on gays in the boyscouts of america. Please explain it to me because I just dont get it.

    CJAZ then answered this: ...and I suspect you never will. (That was positive and helpful)

    Here's the following responses: StevieB0402 said

    yeah, but since I have 2 Master's Degrees, I'll go out on a limb and say that I would understand it if somebody would like to explain it. But see, I always find myself in this position. When I ask for an explanation to truly understand the opposing viewpoint, all I receive is coy statements, a laundry list of what's wrong with the opposing party, and occasionally a snide comment or two. But never an intellectual response. Why?

    CJAZ:
    I don't doubt your intelligence . I doubt your willingness and/or ability to grasp the reality that being gay does not require one to be a Democrat, or that voting Republican does not make someone unsympathetic to gay issues. Myself, nor anyone else, needs to "explain" and/or "justify" to you, or anyone, why we vote any particular way in any particular election. Everyone has their own personal set of priorities in their own life, and they vote accordingly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

    Now let's examine these statements. #1- at no time have I ever stated I was a democrat because I am, and always have been, a libertarian. That was a baseless assumption, this coming from someone who claims we should be listening to what people are actually saying. #2- the voting republican/unsympathetic comment insinuates that he is removed from the gay community somehow. "Gay issues"; not "my issues nor "our issues" nor "issues we face". If he is a homosexual, which one could assume as he is a member of this site, then we have to wonder why he feels set apart from the rest of us. Why would he be "sympathetic to gay issues" rather than involved with or living them? #3- in a gay forum, on a thread about politics, how is somebody who has made almost 17000 posts suddenly so concerned about protecting his privacy? Psychologically, when people are very expansive on their views and suddenly hide behind 'I don't have to explain myself to you', it's because they are uncomfortable sharing their true feelings. They are inherently aware that they will be open for scrutiny and possibly scorn if they explain the truth about their stances. Which leads us to.... #4- I asked for "someone" to explain this to me, not CJAZ specifically, yet he choose to answer and his answer was "I'm not justifying myself to you" The overall tone of his post is one of someone who is feeling attacked and since I didn't attack him, it begs the question: "why is he so defensive"?

  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Oct 22, 2012 6:21 PM GMT
    musicbox89 saidI found Mitt Romney to be very disrespectful when he was answering the questions raised by the audience. He failed to connect with the public, didn't answer questions fully and dodged some others. He focused more of his time demonizing Obama than thoughtfully answering questions and concerns raised by the audience in front of him.

    Besides his sexist remarks, a perfect example started at very beginning of debate when he addressed students' question (1:15-3:35). He provided no tangible info on how he will help the young, college educated citizens prosper in this country.

    His approach clearly demonstrates what kind of person he is and I find his ideologies/beliefs to be of worrisome nature.



    The good news is that you'll get to find out if the majority of Americans agree or disagree with you in just 2 weeks. My guess is that, regardless of the outcome, there will be hysteria...



  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Oct 22, 2012 6:30 PM GMT
    StevieB0402 saidHere's something I posted on another thread:
    "So who might a President Romney pick for the Court? In 2007, Romney said he admired President George W. Bush's choices of Justices John Roberts and Samuel Alito, suggesting he would opt for a reliably conservative justice rather than a more middle-of-the-road one like Kennedy or former Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. "I respect legal scholars of all backgrounds, but those who are going to be on the bench, if I were lucky enough to appoint them, would be people who believe their job is to follow the law and follow the Constitution," Romney said then. During this primary season, Romney noted that he would appoint federal judges who oppose gay marriage."

    Then I asked: Someone please explain the humor to me in gay individuals who support a man and his running mate who have both vocalized their opinions against gay marriage to the point of amending the constitution, said that gays do not deserve marriage like equality such as civil unions (ryan), voted no in congress to repeal DODT, voted to disallow gay adoptions, and support the ban on gays in the boyscouts of america. Please explain it to me because I just dont get it.

    CJAZ then answered this: ...and I suspect you never will. (That was positive and helpful)

    Here's the following responses: StevieB0402 said

    yeah, but since I have 2 Master's Degrees, I'll go out on a limb and say that I would understand it if somebody would like to explain it. But see, I always find myself in this position. When I ask for an explanation to truly understand the opposing viewpoint, all I receive is coy statements, a laundry list of what's wrong with the opposing party, and occasionally a snide comment or two. But never an intellectual response. Why?

    CJAZ:
    I don't doubt your intelligence . I doubt your willingness and/or ability to grasp the reality that being gay does not require one to be a Democrat, or that voting Republican does not make someone unsympathetic to gay issues. Myself, nor anyone else, needs to "explain" and/or "justify" to you, or anyone, why we vote any particular way in any particular election. Everyone has their own personal set of priorities in their own life, and they vote accordingly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

    Now let's examine these statements. #1- at no time have I ever stated I was a democrat because I am, and always have been, a libertarian. That was a baseless assumption, this coming from someone who claims we should be listening to what people are actually saying. #2- the voting republican/unsympathetic comment insinuates that he is removed from the gay community somehow. "Gay issues"; not "my issues nor "our issues" nor "issues we face". If he is a homosexual, which one could assume as he is a member of this site, then we have to wonder why he feels set apart from the rest of us. Why would he be "sympathetic to gay issues" rather than involved with or living them? #3- in a gay forum, on a thread about politics, how is somebody who has made almost 17000 posts suddenly so concerned about protecting his privacy? Psychologically, when people are very expansive on their views and suddenly hide behind 'I don't have to explain myself to you', it's because they are uncomfortable sharing their true feelings. They are inherently aware that they will be open for scrutiny and possibly scorn if they explain the truth about their stances. Which leads us to.... #4- I asked for "someone" to explain this to me, not CJAZ specifically, yet he choose to answer and his answer was "I'm not justifying myself to you" The overall tone of his post is one of someone who is feeling attacked and since I didn't attack him, it begs the question: "why is he so defensive"?



    I think my "nearly 17000 posts" that you referred to make it loud and clear, over and over, during a span of some 5 or 6 years here at RJ, that I have no problem stating my opinion and standing behind it. I'm not hiding from anything, nor would I have any need to, here at RJ. I state my opinion all the time -- even many times when it is clearly not a popular one -- but I do it anyway. No, I do not have to justify that opinion to anyone -- it's MY opinion --- I own it --- others are free to agree or disagree. At the end of the day, I care a great deal more about stating my opinion, than I do whether or not people here agree or disagree with that opinion. We're not saving the world or curing cancer here at RJ.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Oct 22, 2012 6:39 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    camfer saidCJAZ's visible means of support is selling real estate, so I think we can safely assume the repubs are spending their campaign dollars elsewhere. Of course the AZ real estate market is running on life support, but maybe he can sell a listing here or there.

    You might want to brush up on your facts as they pertain to the AZ real estate market. The Phoenix market alone is leading the country the past 6 months not only in # of sales, but also in avg median price increases. I sold nearly $10 million worth of homes in 2010, 2011, and 2012 looks to be just as strong, so yes, I managed to move "a listing here or there" icon_wink.gif
    http://www.arizonahomegroup.com/phoenix-housing-market-rebound-leads-the-way/
    http://www.realtor.com/blogs/realtor-com-names-top-turnaround-towns-may-2012-data/
    http://blog.themoengroup.com/2012/07/18/phoenix-leads-the-way-in-real-estate-recovery/
    http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2012/07/02/rising-phoneix-home-prices-lead-the.html

    camfer saidAs for taking Romney at his word, I am unable to do so because he changes his message depending on the audience. He seems to be a man with no real core who would say anything to get elected.
    Then you probably SHOULD vote for Obama.
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    Oct 22, 2012 7:27 PM GMT
    TerraFirma saidThe above-mentioned article, and the original source, talks about Julie Goodridge. Here she is talking about it herself.

    More video testimonies at Mitt Gets Worse from people of Massachusetts


    If this does not want to make you as a gay man not want Mitt Romney in office or prove how much of a bigot he is then I don't know what else will.

    Thanks for pulling that out of the article I brought over.

    This women's story alone could stop me from voting for Mitt let alone the other non gay issues Mitt is wrong about.

    How gay republicans can still sit here and defend this man after watching that video is beyond me.
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    Oct 22, 2012 7:35 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidYet again, in spite of Romney's hostility (or, at best, indifference) to equal rights for gay people, the usual suspects are falling over themselves to defend him.

    Just remember, you cannot be a little bit equal. Equality means equal rights in all respects. A gay person with any dignity or self-respect ought not to settle for anything less. Meanwhile, there is a rump of soulless gay Republican apologists, who seem content to be regarded as second class citizens.


    I find it laughable that Obama conveniently/mysteriously had an "evolved" position on gay marriage right before the election (while to this day not willing to lift a finger and still stating it is an issue that should be left to the states), and you all pretend like he came out of the womb waiving a rainbow flag and supporting gay rights since before he could walk. Less than four years ago, he ran on a platform saying that marriage was between a man and a woman, but you all voted for him then. Now you're making Romney out to be the next Hitler when he's taking the same stance that Obama did back then. What a bunch of forgetful hypocrites!
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    Oct 22, 2012 7:41 PM GMT
    BornJuly4th said
    Ex_Mil8 saidYet again, in spite of Romney's hostility (or, at best, indifference) to equal rights for gay people, the usual suspects are falling over themselves to defend him.

    Just remember, you cannot be a little bit equal. Equality means equal rights in all respects. A gay person with any dignity or self-respect ought not to settle for anything less. Meanwhile, there is a rump of soulless gay Republican apologists, who seem content to be regarded as second class citizens.


    I find it laughable that Obama conveniently had an "evolution" on his opinion on gay marriage right before the election (while to this day not willing to lift a finger and still making it an issue left to the states) and you all pretend like he came out of the womb waiving a rainbow flag and supporting gay rights since before he could walk. Less than four years ago, he ran on a platform saying that marriage was between a man and a woman, but you all voted for him then. Now you're making Romney out to be the next Hitler when he's taking the same stance that Obama did back then. What a bunch of forgetful hypocrites!


    Here is a list of things Obama has done for us gays while in office (mind you he has done more then any other preisdent in the past)....

    FEDERAL LEGISLATION SIGNED INTO LAW

    *Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded existing United States federal hate crime law to include crimes motivated by a victim’s actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability -- the first positive federal LGBT legislation in the nation's history
    *Signed repeal of Don't Ask/Don't Tell
    *Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act


    POLICIES CHANGED

    *Reversed an inexcusable US position by signing the UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity
    *Extended benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees in 2009 and, further, in 2010
    *Lifted the HIV Entry Ban effective January 2010
    *Issued diplomatic passports, and provided other benefits, to the partners of same-sex foreign service employees
    *Committed to ensuring that federal housing programs are open to all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity
    *Conceived a National Resource Center for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Elders -- the nation's first ever -- funded by a three-year HHS grant to SAG

    *Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer)
    *Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept our relationships from being counted, encouraging couples who consider themselves married to file that way, even if their state of residence does not yet permit legal marriage
    *Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights
    *Required all grant applicants seeking HUD funding to comply with state and local anti-discrimination laws that protect LGBT individuals
    *Adopted transgender recommendations on the issuance of gender-appropriate passports that will ease barriers to safe travel and that will provide government-issued ID that avoids involuntary "outing" in situations requiring ID, like hiring, where a gender-appropriate driver's license or birth certificate is not available
    *Extended domestic violence protections to LGBT victims
    *Extended the Family and Medical Leave Act to cover employees taking unpaid leave to care for the children of same-sex partners
    *Issued guidance specifically to assist LGBT tenants denied housing on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity
    *Issued a National HIV/AIDS Strategy praised as "long-overdue" by the Task Force, Lambda and others
    *Issued guidance to 15,000 local departments of education and 5,000 colleges to support educators in combating bullying
    *Cut back authority to discharge under Don't Ask/Don't Tell from hundreds of generals to just 6 civilian appointees, effectively ending discharges while working toward a permanent end to the policy.
    *Led the fight that reversed a 2010 UN vote removing sexual orientation from the list of things people should not be killed for
    *Launched the first-ever national study of discrimination against members of the LGBT community in the rental and sale of housing
    *Determined that Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional, that discrimination against LGBT citizens should be subject to "heightened scrutiny" and that it will no longer defend this portion of the law in court.
    *Vacated a court order that would have deported a gay American's Venezuelan partner


    RESPECT & INCLUSION

    *Endorsed the Baldwin-Lieberman bill, The Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009, to provide FULL partnership benefits to federal employees
    *Released the first Presidential PRIDE proclamations since 2000
    *Hosted the first LGBT Pride Month Celebration in White House history
    *Awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Harvey Milk and Billie Jean King, joining past recipients such as Rosa Parks
    *Appointed the first ever transgender DNC member
    *Testified in favor of ENDA, the first time any official of any administration has testified in the Senate on ENDA
    *Hired more openly LGBT officials (like these) in its first two years -- more than 150, including more than 20 "Senate-confirmables" -- than any previous administration hired in four years or eight
    *Sworn in Ambassador David Huebner
    *Changed the culture of government everywhere from – among others – HUD and HHS to the Export-Import Bank, the State Department, and the Department of Education
    *Appointed Justices Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, instead of conservatives who would have tilted the Court even further to the right and virtually doomed our rights for a generation. To wit (quoting McCain): "I've said a thousand times on this campaign trail, I've said as often as I can, that I want to find clones of Alito and Roberts. I worked as hard as anybody to get them confirmed. I look you in the eye and tell you I've said a thousand times that I wanted Alito and Roberts. I have told anybody who will listen. I flat-out tell you I will have people as close to Roberts and Alito ."

    *Named open transgender appointees (the first President ever to do so)
    *Emphasized LGBT inclusion in everything from the President’s historic NAACP address (“The pain of discrimination is still felt in America. By African American women paid less for doing the same work as colleagues of a different color and a different gender. By Latinos made to feel unwelcome in their own country. By Muslim Americans viewed with suspicion simply because they kneel down to pray to their God. By our gay brothers and sisters, still taunted, still attacked, still denied their rights.”) . . . to the first paragraph of his Family Day proclamation (“Whether children are raised by two parents, a single parent, grandparents, a same-sex couple, or a guardian, families encourage us to do our best and enable us to accomplish great things”) and his Mothers Day proclamation ("Nurturing families come in many forms, and children may be raised by two parents, a single mother, two mothers, a step-mom, a grandmother, or a guardian. Mother's Day gives us an opportunity to celebrate these extraordinary caretakers") . . . to creating the chance for an adorable 10-year-old at the White House Easter Egg roll to tell ABC World News how cool it is to have two mommies . . . to including the chair of the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce along with the Secretary of the Treasury and the President of Goldman Sachs in the small audience for the President’s economic address at the New York Stock Exchange . . . to welcoming four gay couples to its first State Dinner
    *Recommitted, in a televised address, to passing ENDA . . . r
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:09 PM GMT
    What hysteria. Nazism was socialist, Romney is not Hitler, we won't be sent to concentration camps to be gassed to death no matter who wins.
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:18 PM GMT
    Blakes7 saidWhat hysteria. Nazism was socialist, Romney is not Hitler, we won't be sent to concentration camps to be gassed to death no matter who wins.


    I never insinuated that. Our civil rights as Americans and human being's will be compromised though in the gay community if Romney and the GOP wins.
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:20 PM GMT
    Blakes7 saidWhat hysteria. Nazism was socialist, Romney is not Hitler, we won't be sent to concentration camps to be gassed to death no matter who wins.


    Anyone with any intelligence should be able to see that you are absolutely correct. It is amusing reading these posts. The hysteria on the left spells out F-E-A-R that the end of the Obama era is N-E-A-R
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:27 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidWow! What a bunch of bogus propaganda that has little basis in fact. Not sure what's more scary --- that the OP would post something so obviously ridiculous, or that some of you people actually believe it. Frankly, I don't care what you believe. It's no accident that "Gay Marriage" was not brought up in any of the debates. Why? Because it so pales in importance in the grand scheme of life as it pertains to the vast majority of Americans with far more pressing issues in their lives that it was not discussed or debated. By all means, vote for whomever you like --- this is your right --- but at least base your vote on facts and vote accordingly.


    +!
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:27 PM GMT
    Blakes7 saidWhat hysteria. Nazism was socialist, Romney is not Hitler, we won't be sent to concentration camps to be gassed to death no matter who wins.

    The Nazis were Right Wing Fascists.You are stupid beyond stupid, and totally ignorant of history. From Mirriam Webster:

    Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent. Martial virtues are celebrated, while liberal and democratic values are disparaged. Fascism arose during the 1920s and '30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced under Joseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems.
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:29 PM GMT
    How the hell is gay rights still a discussion point in the USA, etc? I just don't get it... I really hope Obama wins...
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:32 PM GMT
    BornJuly4th said
    Ex_Mil8 saidYet again, in spite of Romney's hostility (or, at best, indifference) to equal rights for gay people, the usual suspects are falling over themselves to defend him.

    Just remember, you cannot be a little bit equal. Equality means equal rights in all respects. A gay person with any dignity or self-respect ought not to settle for anything less. Meanwhile, there is a rump of soulless gay Republican apologists, who seem content to be regarded as second class citizens.


    I find it laughable that Obama conveniently/mysteriously had an "evolved" position on gay marriage right before the election (while to this day not willing to lift a finger and still stating it is an issue that should be left to the states), and you all pretend like he came out of the womb waiving a rainbow flag and supporting gay rights since before he could walk. Less than four years ago, he ran on a platform saying that marriage was between a man and a woman, but you all voted for him then. Now you're making Romney out to be the next Hitler when he's taking the same stance that Obama did back then. What a bunch of forgetful hypocrites!


    omg thank you! People are so clueless.

    here you guys go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6K9dS9wl7U

    The reason why he supported "gay rights" is because Joe Biden let his mouth run and said he supported gay marriage so it would look bad on the democratic party and Obama himself if he disagreed with Biden. Biden put unnecessary pressure on Obama and Obama has not done much compared to other presidents.

    Stop wishing death to Romney and comparing him to Hitler. That is disgusting, unruly, and pathetic. There are people in this world who don't even have civil rights and you guys are acting like this guy wants toe exterminate us.

    Let's all remember it was Clinton's administration that passed DOMA, but still you guys seem to forget that.
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:36 PM GMT
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:37 PM GMT
    Looks like the conservaposse sock puppet call to arms has gone out again.
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:38 PM GMT
    sonicpower19 saidLet's all remember it was Clinton's administration that passed DOMA, but still you guys seem to forget that.

    I don't forget. It was a Republican Congress that created DOMA, during a time when Clinton was weakened politically. If he didn't sign the Republican DOMA bill the government would grind to a halt.

    I think it was a mistake that he caved to the Republicans, but you imply that DOMA was a Clinton initiative. That is a complete lie. It came from the Republicans.
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:38 PM GMT
    Trajen1 said
    meninlove said
    "The government can't grant rights, but they can restrict them as they did for women and African Americans."

    Interesting semantical argument, but the end result is the same. So using your arguments, Mitty wants to restrict gay people's natural rights. And you're all good with that?


    No rights of naturality should be restricted


    Sooo...are you going to vote for him so he can go ahead and restrict those rights?
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:41 PM GMT
    Blakes7 saidWhat hysteria. Nazism was socialist, Romney is not Hitler, we won't be sent to concentration camps to be gassed to death no matter who wins.


    Of course not, however you missed the point of what that rather ham-fisted comparison was about.
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:43 PM GMT
    DontQuoteMe said
    Blakes7 saidWhat hysteria. Nazism was socialist, Romney is not Hitler, we won't be sent to concentration camps to be gassed to death no matter who wins.


    Anyone with any intelligence should be able to see that you are absolutely correct. It is amusing reading these posts. The hysteria on the left spells out F-E-A-R that the end of the Obama era is N-E-A-R


    Mhmm, the same could easily be said about the glad-handing of what a great guy Mitt is.

    Both sides are trying to spur voters. Now if you look at some of the far right Repub machinations, gay rights are going to mean the end of the world if they happen, SB.
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:43 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    sonicpower19 saidLet's all remember it was Clinton's administration that passed DOMA, but still you guys seem to forget that.

    I don't forget. It was a Republican Congress that created DOMA, during a time when Clinton was weakened politically. If he didn't sign the Republican DOMA bill the government would grind to a halt.

    I think it was a mistake that he caved to the Republicans, but you imply that DOMA was a Clinton initiative. That is a complete lie. It came from the Republicans.


    In a June 1996 interview in the gay and lesbian magazine The Advocate, Clinton said, "I remain opposed to same-sex marriage. I believe marriage is an institution for the union of a man and a woman. This has been my long-standing position, and it is not being reviewed or reconsidered."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 22, 2012 8:43 PM GMT
    sonicpower19 said
    BornJuly4th said
    Ex_Mil8 saidYet again, in spite of Romney's hostility (or, at best, indifference) to equal rights for gay people, the usual suspects are falling over themselves to defend him.

    Just remember, you cannot be a little bit equal. Equality means equal rights in all respects. A gay person with any dignity or self-respect ought not to settle for anything less. Meanwhile, there is a rump of soulless gay Republican apologists, who seem content to be regarded as second class citizens.


    I find it laughable that Obama conveniently/mysteriously had an "evolved" position on gay marriage right before the election (while to this day not willing to lift a finger and still stating it is an issue that should be left to the states), and you all pretend like he came out of the womb waiving a rainbow flag and supporting gay rights since before he could walk. Less than four years ago, he ran on a platform saying that marriage was between a man and a woman, but you all voted for him then. Now you're making Romney out to be the next Hitler when he's taking the same stance that Obama did back then. What a bunch of forgetful hypocrites!


    omg thank you! People are so clueless.

    here you guys go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6K9dS9wl7U

    The reason why he supported "gay rights" is because Joe Biden let his mouth run and said he supported gay marriage so it would look bad on the democratic party and Obama himself if he disagreed with Biden. Biden put unnecessary pressure on Obama and Obama has not done much compared to other presidents.

    Stop wishing death to Romney and comparing him to Hitler. That is disgusting, unruly, and pathetic. There are people in this world who don't even have civil rights and you guys are acting like this guy wants toe exterminate us.

    Let's all remember it was Clinton's administration that passed DOMA, but still you guys seem to forget that.


    It is a fact Obama has done more for the LGBT community then any previous sitting United States President has.

    Must I repost the long list of things he has done for us in office?

    Fine.


    FEDERAL LEGISLATION SIGNED INTO LAW

    *Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded existing United States federal hate crime law to include crimes motivated by a victim’s actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability -- the first positive federal LGBT legislation in the nation's history
    *Signed repeal of Don't Ask/Don't Tell
    *Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act


    POLICIES CHANGED

    *Reversed an inexcusable US position by signing the UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity
    *Extended benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees in 2009 and, further, in 2010
    *Lifted the HIV Entry Ban effective January 2010
    *Issued diplomatic passports, and provided other benefits, to the partners of same-sex foreign service employees
    *Committed to ensuring that federal housing programs are open to all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity
    *Conceived a National Resource Center for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Elders -- the nation's first ever -- funded by a three-year HHS grant to SAG

    *Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer)
    *Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept our relationships from being counted, encouraging couples who consider themselves married to file that way, even if their state of residence does not yet permit legal marriage
    *Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights
    *Required all grant applicants seeking HUD funding to comply with state and local anti-discrimination laws that protect LGBT individuals
    *Adopted transgender recommendations on the issuance of gender-appropriate passports that will ease barriers to safe travel and that will provide government-issued ID that avoids involuntary "outing" in situations requiring ID, like hiring, where a gender-appropriate driver's license or birth certificate is not available
    *Extended domestic violence protections to LGBT victims
    *Extended the Family and Medical Leave Act to cover employees taking unpaid leave to care for the children of same-sex partners
    *Issued guidance specifically to assist LGBT tenants denied housing on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity
    *Issued a National HIV/AIDS Strategy praised as "long-overdue" by the Task Force, Lambda and others
    *Issued guidance to 15,000 local departments of education and 5,000 colleges to support educators in combating bullying
    *Cut back authority to discharge under Don't Ask/Don't Tell from hundreds of generals to just 6 civilian appointees, effectively ending discharges while working toward a permanent end to the policy.
    *Led the fight that reversed a 2010 UN vote removing sexual orientation from the list of things people should not be killed for
    *Launched the first-ever national study of discrimination against members of the LGBT community in the rental and sale of housing
    *Determined that Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional, that discrimination against LGBT citizens should be subject to "heightened scrutiny" and that it will no longer defend this portion of the law in court.
    *Vacated a court order that would have deported a gay American's Venezuelan partner


    RESPECT & INCLUSION

    *Endorsed the Baldwin-Lieberman bill, The Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009, to provide FULL partnership benefits to federal employees
    *Released the first Presidential PRIDE proclamations since 2000
    *Hosted the first LGBT Pride Month Celebration in White House history
    *Awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Harvey Milk and Billie Jean King, joining past recipients such as Rosa Parks
    *Appointed the first ever transgender DNC member
    *Testified in favor of ENDA, the first time any official of any administration has testified in the Senate on ENDA
    *Hired more openly LGBT officials (like these) in its first two years -- more than 150, including more than 20 "Senate-confirmables" -- than any previous administration hired in four years or eight
    *Sworn in Ambassador David Huebner
    *Changed the culture of government everywhere from – among others – HUD and HHS to the Export-Import Bank, the State Department, and the Department of Education
    *Appointed Justices Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, instead of conservatives who would have tilted the Court even further to the right and virtually doomed our rights for a generation. To wit (quoting McCain): "I've said a thousand times on this campaign trail, I've said as often as I can, that I want to find clones of Alito and Roberts. I worked as hard as anybody to get them confirmed. I look you in the eye and tell you I've said a thousand times that I wanted Alito and Roberts. I have told anybody who will listen. I flat-out tell you I will have people as close to Roberts and Alito ."

    *Named open transgender appointees (the first President ever to do so)
    *Emphasized LGBT inclusion in everything from the President’s historic NAACP address (“The pain of discrimination is still felt in America. By African American women paid less for doing the same work as colleagues of a different color and a different gender. By Latinos made to feel unwelcome in their own country. By Muslim Americans viewed with suspicion simply because they kneel down to pray to their God. By our gay brothers and sisters, still taunted, still attacked, still denied their rights.”) . . . to the first paragraph of his Family Day proclamation (“Whether children are raised by two parents, a sin