Bareback and Drug Parties...the new craze? (revisited even after the AIDS epidemic?)

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    Oct 31, 2012 5:05 AM GMT
    Wow, I continue to be amazed at how mean you guys can be to each other on here. The OP started a legit forum thread on a real and important topic and many of you just trash him. This was one of the few threads I saw on the homepage that actually seemed worth my time reading, and yet only a handful of the replies actually were. Any chance of thinking "if I don't have anything constructive to add, I'll just move on"?
    As somewhat of an "outsider" here (bi-curious, never been with a guy, and no experience with the "gay community") I am amazed and saddened to see that there is more hate and judgement on the inside of the "community" than there is from my "homophobic" republican christian friends. Sad.
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    Oct 31, 2012 2:52 PM GMT
    speedobuddy said...
    You just need to read the postings here: they are ALL full of contempt, disdain, disbelief and superiority. People feeling sorry for poz guys, people saying they deserve it and so on.
    ...
    citing platitudes like "let's never let this disease divide our community" is unrealistic and simplistic. Talk to more poz guys and you will hear a very very different perspective about "the community".

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    Oct 31, 2012 2:58 PM GMT
    Everyone needs a bender every now and then.
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:03 PM GMT
    TellMeMoar said
    speedobuddy said...
    You just need to read the postings here: they are ALL full of contempt, disdain, disbelief and superiority. People feeling sorry for poz guys, people saying they deserve it and so on.
    ...
    citing platitudes like "let's never let this disease divide our community" is unrealistic and simplistic. Talk to more poz guys and you will hear a very very different perspective about "the community".

    2+thumbs+up.jpg


    Hmmm...actually I find the topic very timely and that it (bug chasing sex parties) has a lot to do with poz guys getting stigmatized, which is horrible.

    There are stupid bastards in every demographic, and the ones in the poz demographic (the bug chasing sex party guys) are making a game of a dangerous, expensive to treat and infectious disease. As they don't walk around with a sign on their forehead, they cast unfair and rotten suspicion on other men living with HIV.

    *fuming mad*
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:07 PM GMT
    the funniest part of this post to me was "I walked in the door"
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:26 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Hmmm...actually I find the topic very timely and that it (bug chasing sex parties) has a lot to do with poz guys getting stigmatized, which is horrible.

    I think the the HIV stigma has been around for as long as HIV itself.

    Even today a lot of neg guys will say that they have no problem with someone with HIV. It wouldn't be a problem and they would get into a relationship with a HIV+ person. But in reality, if you talk to HIV+ guys, they will tell you that 99.9% of the time thats not true. 99.9% of the time the HIV+ guys will get dumped primarily because of HIV.

    meninlove saidThere are stupid bastards in every demographic, and the ones in the poz demographic (the bug chasing sex party guys) are making a game of a dangerous, expensive to treat and infectious disease. As they don't walk around with a sign on their forehead, they cast unfair and rotten suspicion on other men living with HIV.

    *fuming mad*

    I agree. It is the a similar to how the straight demographic sees gays. Gay guys may have more sexual partners than straights in general but not all gays are 24/7... pants on the ground ... sex with anything with a dick. Only some gay guys will do any and everything with anyone with a dick including chasing after straight guys. Thus giving the rest of the gay guys a bad name.

    Unfortunately every demographic has bad apples as such. The problem is when those with limited information start to pass judgements on the rest of the demographic without bothering to look deeper first.
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:34 PM GMT
    just cause the OP ran into this once doesnt mean its a crazy popular thing on this rise... makes me so pissed i see this shit constantly on the forums.

    1) Some guy experiences something ONCE he doesnt like, be it in public, with a friend, a boyfriend, a guy online etc.

    2) assumes he could never be at any fault in the situation, draws a generalization from society/gay culture about his SINGLE experience.

    3) asks us why ALL gay people do this, why SOCIETY does this, has everyone forgot something, is everyone flawed.

    it's a reallllllly dumb way to think.

  • rnch

    Posts: 11557

    Oct 31, 2012 3:38 PM GMT
    I've been invited several times to parties smiliar to what the OP described.

    The guys that were "participating" were so undesireable to me that there wasn't enough drugs available to make me willingly join in.

    (maybe I'm just TOO picky about who I poke).



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    Oct 31, 2012 3:38 PM GMT
    "they will come (cum) if you serve punch and pie" Cartman voice
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    Oct 31, 2012 4:28 PM GMT
    Well, the connection between eros and thanatos goes back hundreds of years though depending on the society, people have been more or less willing to acknowledge it and deal with it. In the US, sexuality is all sorts of messed up and people can barely be honest about who they are (sexually), let alone what they want. As far as the original post...

    Part of it may be AIDS/safe sex fatigue and part of it may be, on a broader level, the self-loathing and lack of self esteem that many gay men have. All this pressure to "be masculine," to look a certain way, to have certain possessions, etc. takes its toll and the way some cope is to "obliterate" themselves through drugs or risky sexual practices. We as people just have to find a healthy way to incorporate our "darker selves" into our regular personas and not in self-destructive ways. I don't know, just my thoughts.
  • AllAmericanJo...

    Posts: 4271

    Oct 31, 2012 4:59 PM GMT
    ATXnative saidjust cause the OP ran into this once doesnt mean its a crazy popular thing on this rise...

    1) Some guy experiences something ONCE he doesnt like, be it in public, with a friend, a boyfriend, a guy online etc.

    2) assumes he could never be at any fault in the situation, draws a generalization from society/gay culture about his SINGLE experience.


    This.

    I don't think most gay guys are attending these parties, accidentally or not. Most gay men -- consciously or unconsciously -- alter their sexual behavior dramatically to minimize health risk.

    If you're participating in hotel-meetup group sex via Grindr, you may run into it. But sexual behavior of most gays might leave them with little opportunity to stumble upon a drug/bareback party.
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    Oct 31, 2012 5:02 PM GMT
    speedobuddy said
    yourname2000 saidLet's never let this disease divide our community.


    Too late... WAY too late...

    You just need to read the postings here: they are ALL full of contempt, disdain, disbelief and superiority. People feeling sorry for poz guys, people saying they deserve it and so on.

    There are barely any posts that delve into the very complex issues that lead people to make the decisions that they do. Clearly not everyone makes the same decisions in life, and there are usually a whole host of reasons that most of us will never be able to understand unless we were to walk a mile in that person's shoes.

    Personally, I think that the harsh reactions elicited in this thread reveal that it has certainly hit a nerve. But citing platitudes like "let's never let this disease divide our community" is unrealistic and simplistic. Talk to more poz guys and you will hear a very very different perspective about "the community".



    Best post on this thread! Amen to that Speedo!
  • 2PecanDeBeurr...

    Posts: 302

    Oct 31, 2012 6:00 PM GMT
    Yes, Speedo,
    the "Leper" label given to poz males is what I have being sharing with my friends.
    We update each other than be more assertive in providing fact vs.myth to others.
    This "Bug Chaser/Gift Giver" is another area of the male community that is practiced by a % I acknowledge yet disagree with the practice.
    j.c.
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    Oct 31, 2012 7:19 PM GMT
    When it's a "craze", it is probably a bad idea. The idiocy of some people never ceases to amaze me.

    Those who engage in "stealthing" should be tarred and feathered.
  • KansasColt09

    Posts: 179

    Nov 01, 2012 12:00 AM GMT
    ATXnative saidjust cause the OP ran into this once doesnt mean its a crazy popular thing on this rise... makes me so pissed i see this shit constantly on the forums.

    1) Some guy experiences something ONCE he doesnt like, be it in public, with a friend, a boyfriend, a guy online etc.

    2) assumes he could never be at any fault in the situation, draws a generalization from society/gay culture about his SINGLE experience.

    3) asks us why ALL gay people do this, why SOCIETY does this, has everyone forgot something, is everyone flawed.

    it's a reallllllly dumb way to think.




    I'm doing my best to not take offense to this. Never once did I make a generalization or accusation of the gay community at large. I brought up a topic that, after moving to NYC, I have heard a lot about. I walked into my first experience with said situation, and thought it was a worthwhile topic to discuss on a gay forum where something like this could be discussed intelligently. I was hoping that those guys who are older and lived through the epidemic might have some input if they've noticed it happening where they live. I'm 'guessing' that because of the epidemic, condoms became something that most people used. I've noticed a trend in porn and through discussions with guys in NYC that barebacking seems to be more prevalent and I thought it was worth discussing. Apologies?
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    Nov 01, 2012 12:20 AM GMT
    KansasColt09 said
    ATXnative saidjust cause the OP ran into this once doesnt mean its a crazy popular thing on this rise... makes me so pissed i see this shit constantly on the forums.

    1) Some guy experiences something ONCE he doesnt like, be it in public, with a friend, a boyfriend, a guy online etc.

    2) assumes he could never be at any fault in the situation, draws a generalization from society/gay culture about his SINGLE experience.

    3) asks us why ALL gay people do this, why SOCIETY does this, has everyone forgot something, is everyone flawed.

    it's a reallllllly dumb way to think.




    I'm doing my best to not take offense to this. Never once did I make a generalization or accusation of the gay community at large. I brought up a topic that, after moving to NYC, I have heard a lot about. I walked into my first experience with said situation, and thought it was a worthwhile topic to discuss on a gay forum where something like this could be discussed intelligently. I was hoping that those guys who are older and lived through the epidemic might have some input if they've noticed it happening where they live. I'm 'guessing' that because of the epidemic, condoms became something that most people used. I've noticed a trend in porn and through discussions with guys in NYC that barebacking seems to be more prevalent and I thought it was worth discussing. Apologies?


    It's scary to hear that you have been hearing how bareback is becoming prevalent there. I would assume that gays are very safe with STDs. But from listening to the head PR guy at this gay community center and the rise of stds and hiv in gay men, it seems that people just forgot about how serious infections can be.

    I don't judge anyone with HIV. I've talked to some HIV+ gay men on here and for the most part all of them seem to have learned from their mistakes and it made them be a better person and feel better about themselves. I have talk to gay people my age and it is shameful to know how careless and sloppy they are..
  • FLMatman

    Posts: 15

    Dec 07, 2012 2:11 PM GMT
    Here is a tale, journey, and life lesson ... I got my special gift in a monogamous relationship over 5 1/2 years from my ex ... After receiving worst rejection in the world from the general gay community after I tried to start socializing and dating again after two years from my diagnosis .. I fell into the sex party crowd with easy drug use and access ... Guess what? I was acceptable by everyone even when I told them about my HIV positive condition

    However, it was empty, useless, time waster, and depressing ... It was a coping mechanicism until I sorted things out for myself ... I got off the shit by doing it the old fashioned way ... Cold turkey

    I did met some wonderful guys that I am still good friends ... We laugh about some of the situations ... But we agree that it is unspoken demon in the gay community.

    I do known some neg HIV guys who talk a good game against this practice ...but they are first ones logged onto the various Internet web sites at 5:02 pm on a Friday night ... Looking for their wild PNP sex parties ... But preaching and talking commitment and condemning those (HIV guys) who are doing this destructive behavior.

    We need both communities to show compassion and caring toward each other. We are our own worst enemies in the contest against bigoted people and this challenging disease.

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    Dec 07, 2012 2:38 PM GMT
    Simply put, those who blatantly go out of their way to encourage such parties are people I go out of my way to avoid. It's nothing personal to the poz community but I'd rather not put myself in that sort of situation.

    I have lots of friends who are poz and we've actually talked about this sort of thing and they are actually appalled by people who throw these kinds of parties and they especially aren't fond of bug chasers. They find it insulting and damaging to the community as a whole and not just towards the poz community.

    It's ridiculous and just irresponsible for people to have such little value on their own safety and the safety of others with this act.

    GAMrican is totally correct. Bare-backing and drug usage are personal risk choices. However, they are choices that do effect others. Whenever sex is involved it's never just about one person.
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    Dec 07, 2012 2:41 PM GMT
    I'm continually shocked at the apparent dis-regard for health and responsibility in our community. I was/am a member of ACT-UP. I strongly feel: It's everyone's responsibility to educate, share, and discuss such matters openly and HONESTLY.

    We effect the health of EVERYONE we are connected to - even those we haven't met. HIV is but one matter - responsibility for our community in general means behaving as an adult and taking care of ourselves that we may better take care of others - be it active or passively.
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    Dec 07, 2012 3:09 PM GMT
    How exactly does one just "walk into" a hotel sex party? Usually, there is a bit more involved than just walking in. You know what's up in advance, have had the location shared, etc.

    I'm well aware this stuff has been going on for a long time...I know guys, poz and neg, who've participated. Some of them, it surprised me; others it did not. From Backpage, to craigslist and A4A, and now Grindr and Scruff, the bareback/PnP sex parties are not new. When I was in college in the early 90s, a classmate in my study track went to these types of parties. In fucking Huntington WV! So it's not even a big city thing. Guys know the risk: it's whether or not they care. Risk can be alluring. That edge of danger gives your orgasm an extra oomph. We know this because, while our danger may not come from unsafe group sex, we find it somewhere else: in public, tied up, etc etc. (And that isn't a defense so much as it's trying to bridge a gap in understanding behavior we can't presently comprehend.)

    I don't find myself capable of holding participants of these sorts of things in judgement. I mostly just want to shake my head and worry. I want to hug them and say, "It's ok to get freaky but can we do it within some safe structure?" (I know that isn't realistic but I'm ideal-baiting here.) I don't want anyone to get gonorrhea. I don't want more people contracting HIV. I want people to have fun and be frisky, but I do want them to protect themselves and or others. It's a difficult balance to strike. To take care and also take risk.

    Here's hoping.
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    Dec 07, 2012 3:24 PM GMT
    It's the power of drug and sex addiction. Make a party out of it and all clear judgment goes out the window. Throw in the thrill of taking a risk, that can be a "high" in itself.
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    Dec 01, 2013 10:02 AM GMT
    I know this is a really old thread, I just wanted to give my two cents since I stumbled upon someone's profile who posted in this thread, and read it way later.

    I've been really fortunate enough to stay in the middle of gay life in NYC, but be removed enough to not really be affected by things like this. The thing is, I have a fair amount of casual sex, but I'm always safe, and have never done any drugs to impair my judgement. Crystal has been around longer than people thing. I remember going to Roxy, Limelight, and Twilo when the drug was just rearing its ugly head and becoming the new craze, and that was in the late 90s/early 2000s.

    The problem is drugs and irresponsible sexual behavior stems largely from emotional issues. Some people don't know how to deal with their problems, and those are escape methods/ways to avoid larger issues. It's really sad to see. But society does the community no favor by leading people to think that HIV is a much lesser issue than it was 20 years ago. You don't realize the side effects from the disease itself, as well as the medications to minimize its effects until it's actually affecting you on a daily basis.

    I just hope young gay guys well get off the trip that HIV isn't so scary anymore. I'm just old enough to know better, and seeing a few people I used to club with die off certainly made it enough of a reality that I wouldn't want to roll those dice.
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    Dec 01, 2013 10:57 AM GMT
    ATXnative saidjust cause the OP ran into this once doesnt mean its a crazy popular thing on this rise... makes me so pissed i see this shit constantly on the forums.

    1) Some guy experiences something ONCE he doesnt like, be it in public, with a friend, a boyfriend, a guy online etc.

    2) assumes he could never be at any fault in the situation, draws a generalization from society/gay culture about his SINGLE experience.

    3) asks us why ALL gay people do this, why SOCIETY does this, has everyone forgot something, is everyone flawed.

    it's a reallllllly dumb way to think.



    My thoughts exactly. There was recently another thread on here about 'why gay people are increasingly partaking in disgusting crack-fuelled sex parties, some of which last for days' (I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it). Guess what? Most of us aren't.
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    Dec 01, 2013 7:52 PM GMT
    Does anyone have any mental insight on the ' anon breed me bottoms'? The ones posting online every week for multiple loads in them? Why? Even if you're already positive, you're not doing yourself any favors
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    Dec 01, 2013 7:58 PM GMT
    "I've been really fortunate enough to stay in the middle of gay life in NYC, but be removed enough to not really be affected by things like this. The thing is, I have a fair amount of casual sex, but I'm always safe, and have never done any drugs to impair my judgement," says Hungfit9.

    Good for you