Another homophobe in pro sports exposed...

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    Nov 27, 2012 6:18 AM GMT
    He's not on my fantasy roster so I feel it's ok to judge him now, otherwise I might have to reserve my judgements for a bit longer. OR I could call him a asshole now and be done with it!
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:19 AM GMT
    squash1212, what strange backward land did you grow up in? Where I come from the term fag or faggot meant homosexual person. When someone called you a fag they didn't mean you were being silly or weird. It was the worst insult you could hurl a another guy. Why? Because everyone knew you were being called a homo. No one ever called a girl a fag or faggot to say she was being silly or weird and neither did they mean it that way when aimed at a guy.

    When someone wanted to denegrate something they would say "that's so gay," although it wasn't used in my time but really came into usage in the past twenty years or so. The term gay is used to mean something is silly, weird, or effete.

    Either way fag = faggot = gay = homosexual. All these terms are as offensive to me as the N word is to blacks when hurled by someone who is straight just as in the black community blacks use the N word but dare let someone who isn't black use it and all hell will break loose (as it should).
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:34 AM GMT
    Iceblink said
    NickB84 said[quote]
    Please. What a cop out. To begin, no NFL player would ever do such a
    I agree with most on this post that words like "faggot" are not the best choice of vocabulary he could have used, but words only have as much power as you give them. Just look at websites like urban dictionary...taking everyday words and giving them derogatory or negative definitions. Its just a word, unless you honestly know the person I find it hard to understand if his online post was meant with a negative intent or if it was perhaps just a word used by a less vocabulary extensive individual. He is a "professional" and having him sit out a game and pay a little fine would probably do him and the organization some good.

    Just my opinion.


    If the word had been "nigger" or "kike" or "towel head" or "spic", would you say things like "It's just a word" and "words only have as much power as you give them"? No. Would it matter if his use of one of those words matter or not if it was "meant with a negative intent"? No.

    And the answer would be "no" because it would be ridiculous to make an excuse for someone using one of those extremely offensive words even if the intent of the person was not to be racist or antisemitic.

    When glbt people are still selling ourselves short and giving people a pass for anti-gay prejudice and bigotry, how can we expect any better from them?

    You "find it hard to understand if his online post was meant with a negative intent," so I have to know, what was his possible "positive intent" in the use of the word "faggot"?


    What about "hoodrat" or "trailer trash" or "redneck" those are words that seem to be used with little to no repercussion. Do those term offend you? Why are those terms any more or less of a derogatory word than any of the others? Sure, you could say its b/c of society, or b/c of personal beliefs. Everyone has different uses/intended meanings behind words they use.

    Maybe you are a better person, but to me I just don't care enough. Ohhh and just b/c his intent wasn't negative doesn't mean it was positive it could have simply been nugatory?
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:51 AM GMT
    NickB84 said
    Iceblink said
    NickB84 said[quote]
    Please. What a cop out. To begin, no NFL player would ever do such a
    I agree with most on this post that words like "faggot" are not the best choice of vocabulary he could have used, but words only have as much power as you give them. Just look at websites like urban dictionary...taking everyday words and giving them derogatory or negative definitions. Its just a word, unless you honestly know the person I find it hard to understand if his online post was meant with a negative intent or if it was perhaps just a word used by a less vocabulary extensive individual. He is a "professional" and having him sit out a game and pay a little fine would probably do him and the organization some good.

    Just my opinion.


    If the word had been "nigger" or "kike" or "towel head" or "spic", would you say things like "It's just a word" and "words only have as much power as you give them"? No. Would it matter if his use of one of those words matter or not if it was "meant with a negative intent"? No.

    And the answer would be "no" because it would be ridiculous to make an excuse for someone using one of those extremely offensive words even if the intent of the person was not to be racist or antisemitic.

    When glbt people are still selling ourselves short and giving people a pass for anti-gay prejudice and bigotry, how can we expect any better from them?

    You "find it hard to understand if his online post was meant with a negative intent," so I have to know, what was his possible "positive intent" in the use of the word "faggot"?


    What about "hoodrat" or "trailer trash" or "redneck" those are words that seem to be used with little to no repercussion. Do those term offend you? Why are those terms any more or less of a derogatory word than any of the others? Sure, you could say its b/c of society, or b/c of personal beliefs. Everyone has different uses/intended meanings behind words they use.

    Maybe you are a better person, but to me I just don't care enough. Ohhh and just b/c his intent wasn't negative doesn't mean it was positive it could have simply been nugatory?


    Bringing up the use of other derogatory words that people use is still just making excuses for his use of the word.

    And his intent could have been "nugatory"? Hardly. Who uses the word "faggot" in a nugatory way? There is always some sort of intent when that word is used and almost always in a negative way. Even when used while joking with a friend, there is somewhat of a negative connotation to the word. In this case, he was involved in an argument and the word was meant to insult and hurt.
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:56 AM GMT
    xrichx saidI wouldn't say he's homophobic. He's just really immature and inarticulate.


    Yep.
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    Nov 27, 2012 7:00 AM GMT
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    Nov 27, 2012 9:24 AM GMT
    He may have "apologized" but I doubt he meant it.

    In an age when curse words are thrown around for fun, I'm rarely offended, but even having a derogatory term, in your vocabulary speaks volumes about you as a person
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    Nov 27, 2012 9:27 AM GMT
    squash1212 saidFor me personally and I'm sure there is going to be a large portion of the LGBT community that disagree with me on this, but if someone was to call me a "faggot or fag", i wouldn't care or take offence to it. I have never associated this term with being gay, that being i guess my experiences growing up. Fag or faggot was just another term used to call someone, "A tool, weird, silly, etc." It wasn't until I started dabbling into the gay community and seeing articles like this, I felt like I was being told "i should be offended" by people using this term.

    It's kinda like what my parents taught me regarding bullies when i was younger, "You show that you're offended and you react, they win. If you truly don't let it bug you, they'll move on because they aren't getting the reaction they wanted." That philosophy has worked perfectly for me throughout my life thus far. So are we giving this word "power" to be offensive by calling out every single time its used?

    I never felt offended reading his tweets, more so laughed at his ignorance of him saying that he doesn't think people being gay is right, but still saying he's not a homophobe. Pretty dumb and hypercritical statement.

    I haven't experienced any homophobia in my life, that even coming out in a small northern community. Maybe my generation is the one where terms like this, do become irrelevant. But just my opinion and its open to change, but I'm curious to see what you guys think.


    Uncle Tom
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    Nov 27, 2012 10:03 AM GMT
    NickB84 saidWith that said... I don't think you understand the Stockholm Syndrome, or maybe I just don't understand your reference to it.

    I agree with most on this post that words like "faggot" are not the best choice of vocabulary he could have used, but words only have as much power as you give them.


    Not the best choice of vocabulary? A fucking nasty and vile and backwards testament to his pea-brain is more specific. What kind of stupid bigot tweets that stuff to millions of people?

    The phrase "words only have as much power as you give them" is one of those empty phrases like "if you dream it, you can achieve it" and "it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game" that's cute and nice sounding...and also not true.

    In fact, winning and losing does matter. No, many people will not achieve their dreams no matter despite genuine effort. Similarly, in fact words DO have power all their own regardless of interpretation, because words have 1) concrete definitions and 2) additional meaning in context.

    A person who says "your a faggot for that" and "I don't believe with being gay or lesbian at all" is using bigoted, bullying, ignorant language that contributes to an already poisonous (and powerful) national discourse that devalues and dehumanizes the gay community. We know this is the kind of stuff that -- if excused, ignored, and normalized -- damages the self-worth of gay children with deadly consequences. We know most gays and lesbians have all kinds of horrible self-image issues they have to work hard to overcome, due to a discourse that teaches them -- subliminally or explicitly -- that they are worthless freaks. We are making huge strides in ending this wreckage -- and it's not by defending hate speech.

    Now, you can run around in fantasy-land pretending that he just made an innocently ignorant bad word choice and that unchallenged homophobia does no harm, but over here in the reality-based community we know bigots have to be confronted.

    I understand Stockholm Syndrome perfectly well. Maybe you don't, because if you did you would see it as a perfect metaphor for the head-scratching propensity of some gays for downplaying, excusing, tolerating and rationalizing-away the hate speech against them.

    What I find most interesting about these boot-licking house gays is how they at once claim to "not care" but then write looooong paragraphs not only rationalizing and explaining away homophobia but also trying to get everyone else to do the same. Hmmm. If you truly "don't care", fine -- just shut up and get out of the way while the rest of us stand up for fags.
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    Nov 27, 2012 10:35 AM GMT
    squash1212 saidFor me personally and I'm sure there is going to be a large portion of the LGBT community that disagree with me on this, but if someone was to call me a "faggot or fag", i wouldn't care or take offence to it. I have never associated this term with being gay, that being i guess my experiences growing up. Fag or faggot was just another term used to call someone, "A tool, weird, silly, etc." It wasn't until I started dabbling into the gay community and seeing articles like this, I felt like I was being told "i should be offended" by people using this term.

    It's kinda like what my parents taught me regarding bullies when i was younger, "You show that you're offended and you react, they win. If you truly don't let it bug you, they'll move on because they aren't getting the reaction they wanted." That philosophy has worked perfectly for me throughout my life thus far. So are we giving this word "power" to be offensive by calling out every single time its used?

    I never felt offended reading his tweets, more so laughed at his ignorance of him saying that he doesn't think people being gay is right, but still saying he's not a homophobe. Pretty dumb and hypercritical statement.

    I haven't experienced any homophobia in my life, that even coming out in a small northern community. Maybe my generation is the one where terms like this, do become irrelevant. But just my opinion and its open to change, but I'm curious to see what you guys think.


    Silly, how can you be so clueless.... ignorance is bliss it seems, but by ignoring the fact that "fag" is a derogatory term for a homosexual man, you are really empowering the homophobia of the word even more, by legitimizing it. From just being terms for homosexuals, now faggot/fag and gay have come to mean everything negative or stupid in general, which is about as much (homophobic) power you can possibly give those words.
    Don't tell me that any person over 10 years old who casually use these terms aren't aware of the homosexual connotation as well. hearing everyday that being gay or a fag is something negative, can't be good for any young gay's self esteem.
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    Nov 27, 2012 12:15 PM GMT
    tyler_helm saidWhy does anyone care about a nobody football player. Worse things happen every day.
    Because there's a hell of a lot more nobodies than somebodies in the world, and saying nothing enables the other nitwit nobodies to keep saying stuff like this with impunity.

    Question: how does saying nothing and ignoring it help?
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    Nov 27, 2012 1:07 PM GMT
    His argument that it is "just a word" not only oversimplifies the situation, as you well know, but it also speaks to a phenomenological effect o the use of pejorative terms.

    From his first tweet, the context seems to be quite clear. When one unfollows another person, it is generally because there is a dissatisfaction with the unfollowed. While I agree that he is extremely immature and probably should have paid attention in his vocabulary units so he could select a better descriptor, one is left with two possibilities. He either couldn't find a "big boy word" to use in place of faggot, or he absolutely intended to use the word in its semantic value.

    While one is worse than the other, the overall effect for society is the same. Faggot is a pejorative term. Such terms are used to degrade people. The user of the pejorative placed the object of the abuse in a lesser position. A look at slave societies and the words used to describe/abuse the slaves shows parallel semantics. Pejoratives dehumanize and the create a cognitive space that others to treat the target person or group terribly.

    On a larger level, he probably has many followers. His followers see him use faggot as a pejorative. He says that he's not a homophobe (he just doesn't agree with gays and lesbians) and that he only intended to use the term in the sense of "bad person" (I realize I am putting words in his mouth, but someone has to, I suppose). By his logic faggot = bad. Who gets called a faggot? Most often it is a male who is perceived to be a homosexual, or at least in its origin as a pejorative that was the case. So faggot = homosexual. Therefore homosexual = bad.

    Granted that most people do not go through that explicit thought process, but this is exactly what our language processing centers do in remembering terms and also in creating the schemata we utilize in approaching situations and, ultimately control our actions. Words influence our conceptions of a person or thing, our conceptions shape how we respond to situations. Words lead to actions. One need only look at Nazi propaganda during World War 2 to see just how far words can go control actions.
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    Nov 27, 2012 1:26 PM GMT
    squash1212 saidFor me personally and I'm sure there is going to be a large portion of the LGBT community that disagree with me on this, but if someone was to call me a "faggot or fag", i wouldn't care or take offence to it. I have never associated this term with being gay, that being i guess my experiences growing up. Fag or faggot was just another term used to call someone, "A tool, weird, silly, etc." It wasn't until I started dabbling into the gay community and seeing articles like this, I felt like I was being told "i should be offended" by people using this term.


    saying "faggot" is not associated with LGBT community is like saying "nigger" is not associated with black people.
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    Nov 27, 2012 2:01 PM GMT
    tank_carder_agree_450.gif

    "Kike" is just a word, too. ((Like a certain grown-azz man who allows himself to be named 'Tank')), I may not "agree" with people being Jews, "at all," but saying "kike" doesn't make me anti-Semitic. It's just a word, right guys?

    I'm sure we can search long and hard enough to find a Jew somewhere on this here planet that isn't offended by its usage, regardless of context. So, that means the word is back in play for everyone to use as a pejorative, right?
    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Nov 27, 2012 2:07 PM GMT
    "Tank"'s real name is Ricky Carder. So is it possible that years of being called "Ricky Rick Carder" (a la I Love Lucy) made him try to toughen up his name? You've got some 'splainin to do, Ricky! icon_lol.gif

    Or more likely, years of schoolyard abuse in the form of "Dick Carder! Dick Carder! Dick Carder! Dick Carder!" icon_razz.gif
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    Nov 27, 2012 2:17 PM GMT
    I must ask this question.

    tank_carder_apology_450.gif

    Who teaches the conditional apology? Are these agents making these fools do this? Either way, that BS needs to stop.

    "IF I EVER offended ANYONE ANYWHERE ANYPLACE ANYHOW in ANYWAY EVER, to all of whoever the hell you are, I apologize."

    "If SOMEONE SOMEWHERE OUT THERE SOMEHOW SOMEWAY got their panties in a wad over what I did/said, my bad. Now go away."


    I mean, seriously, what IS that?

    Just once I'd like to see:

    "I did/said something boneheadedly shtoopid, then I compounded things by doubling-down on my ignorance until I literally had to have some people hand my azz to me on a platter. I am sorry for offending all of you, and if you're not offended, then perhaps you should have been."
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    Nov 27, 2012 2:18 PM GMT
    Ckfeezy said


    ^THIS. icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 27, 2012 2:34 PM GMT
    Holy crap. I feel like once people read my first post and read the one line, "if someone was to call me a "faggot or fag", i wouldn't care or take offence to it. I have never associated this term with being gay" you went into a mad typing rage not caring to read anything else i posted.

    For who's asking "what bubble" i grew up in, none? Looking at some of the ages of people who have been responding there is over a 15 year gap between us. Words have different meanings for different generations, and is it really that bizarre that faggot would have a different meaning for me growing up, then it did for you 10, 15, 20 years ago? From comments I'm getting the impression im getting perceived as some "passive" almost "self-hater" vibe. All i can talk about is my experiences and have my views changed a little bit even from this thread? Ya they have a bit. When you look at the larger context of things, outside of my growing up experiences there is alot of history of hatred behind and continued use of the word that you guys have posted about.

    So tone back the negative comments towards each other and just have a discussion.

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    Nov 27, 2012 2:43 PM GMT
    Hmmmmmm I see where squash is coming from and I see where everyone else is coming from... but to me I don't care if you call me a faggot, Nigger, nigga, monkey, fag.

    My response has always been "say what you will, just don't touch me"

    Although I don't agree with squash possibly being ignorant to how much negativity is put in the word faggot I do agree that people only have as much power as you let them.

    Although confronting these people are a noble gesture, unless you can do it without getting defensive it just seems you're giving these people a weak spot to push whenever they feel like
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    Nov 27, 2012 2:45 PM GMT
    It's fun to see him go down the well-worn homophobic path of "I'm unfollowing you, f@ggot!", to "I don't agree with the existence of gays or lesbians AT ALL, but hey, I was just using a word," to acknowledging the very existence of "the gay community" (this must be where the agent or Team PR finally showed up to ring his neck) and "Bashing? Who, what, me? No, not at all! ((checks bank account for withdrawals from fines)) You don't know me as a person, and if you did, you would understand and this would all go away! The problem is you!" I'll bet he thinks nobody besides him has ever gone down that garden path before.

    "I thought he was bashing team sports." Oh, well, now that you put it THAT way, "Ricky." Way to defend team sports, sluggo! icon_rolleyes.gif

    It also appears, as usual, that he expected to demean someone he thinks is straight (probably, in small part, the reason he chose to follow "Because I'm a Guy" in the first place), by suggesting he's something he himself is not, as a final parting shot.

    Yet he has no idea what his unfollowee's sexual orientation truly is. Not that it should matter. But it's clear by his double-down statements he thinks (1) gays and lesbians shouldn't exist, and (2) assumed "straight" people that are traitors deserve the same fate in life as whomever he considers to be "f@ggots."
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    Nov 27, 2012 2:54 PM GMT
    My generation didn't grow up around "Kike," either. And if it becomes the hot word in the lunchroom or on Urban Dictionary, that doesn't make it acceptable. Even if I'm personally not offended by it, a lot more rightfully are, and a mature adult male should certainly know why before uttering it.

    Up until October 12, 1998, f@ggot might have been just a word to throw around for Matthew Shepard, too.
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:03 PM GMT
    xrichx saidI wouldn't say he's homophobic. He's just really immature and inarticulate.


    I sense that it's this.
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:07 PM GMT
    http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2012/11/21/minnesotas-a-j-barker-quits-team-accuses-coaches-of-abuse-and-gay-slurs/

    Remember, kids, it's just a word! icon_rolleyes.gif

    OutsportsWith one game remaining on the regular season schedule, Minnesota Golden Gophers wide receiver A.J. Barker has quit the team, sending a lengthy, scathing letter to head coach Jerry Kill that Barker also posted on his tumblr account. In the letter, the walk-on junior, who leads the team in receiving this year, accuses Kill of a year of mental abuse, including the use of a gay slur by an assistant:


    http://ajbarker82.tumblr.com/

    A.J. BarkerBut don’t be confused by this explanation into thinking this is a quick/irrational decision based solely around Thursday’s event. Last spring before the spring game I was called a faggot for my spiritual views by Coach Reeves where other players on the team heard him say it.


    OutsportsBarker explained on Twitter that he is Atheist, which on many college football teams is even worse than being gay.

    When asked about some of the things Barker accuses Kill and the coaching staff of saying, Kill says he can’t recall because there are, essentially, so many cooks in the kitchen. But somehow Kill knows that no coach has ever used a gay slur, as he told the St. Paul Pioneer Press.
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:13 PM GMT
    xrichx saidI wouldn't say he's homophobic. He's just really immature and inarticulate.


    Jeah.

    tank_carder_agree_450.gif
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:18 PM GMT
    Wouldn't it be great if we really could all just ignore use of the word faggot? Assume that the person is joking/faking it/not really homophobic? Maybe it's not really a problem any more?

    For those who've never experienced homophobia—lucky you! Alas, this vile and violent word is still hurled at people (with punches and worse) throughout the country. For some, secure in our jobs and life, this word may seem an empty threat; for others, particularly for those is less progressive states or in school, it has considerable power to cause misery.

    When professional sportsmen proliferate these words they extend an imprimatur that this disgusting behavior is ok. As embodiments [to many] of masculinity, they convey the impression that homophobia is a necessary component of being a real man.