banning the burqa

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 7:51 PM GMT
    Shagglot said
    ryan2013 said[quote][cite]Shagglot said[/cite]
    What physical make up? Do you think man and woman don't do Anal sex? Do you think those straight couple who can't have babies are not allowed to be together?
    You didn't answer me whether an old guy marrying an underage girl is sin or not? Didn't that happen in your holy book? Isn't it a sin? [quote]


    I am referring to genitals make up of male and female. They are structured for it to be combined during intimacy. Yes I am aware straight couple have anal sex, but it is forbidden in many religion.


    The marriage happened 1400 ago, not today. At that time, their marriage was not considered unusual and the proof is that the enemies of Muslims at that time did not criticize this marriage. They attacked prophet Mohammad on many issues, yet they didn't criticize his marriage to Aisha.

    God wanted prophet Mohammad to marry a young girl so that she can outlive him by many years so that she can serve an important reference and resource for Muslims long after prophet Mohammad dies.

    She indicated that it was a great honor and privilege to be married to prophet Mohammad. If she did not marry him, she would have lived and died as an ordinary woman. She became famous and gained a special status of respect because of her marriage to prophet Mohammad.

    The marriage was taken with the girl's consent.


    ALSO I am not going to be judgmental about the gay issue considering I am a gay man myself, which makes me a total hypocrite. So if I am being offensive to anyone with my gay issue, I apologize. I wish there was a way around the religion, so I can be happy.

    And I sooooooooooo made this thread off topic. Sorry about that.


    You say it happened long time ago so its not a sin. Then the book was written also a long time ago. Why do you need to follow that book in this age of science and logic? You can't choose something which favors you and then reject things which you can't justify.
    Girl's consent at 10 year? Are you kidding me?




    I am not God. Whatever is in the book, it is in the book. I can't make up rules. If it doesn't say anything about under age marriage- I am assume it is not a sin. However forced marriage is not allowed in Islam even though I am sure many muslim family do it including mine. My parents are keep pressuring me to get married, eventhough I don't want to.

    I follow it because it is a guide to live my life in a peaceful manner. I feel like religion is there as guidance. it is humans are who are the danger to this world. They manipulate and exploit other beings for their own purpose. What religion ask to be peaceful, don't lie, don't cheat, no adultery, give charity, worship God, fast. It is not that hard to follow.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 7:54 PM GMT
    Shagglot saidIslam needs to remove many more things apart from Burqa like any other religion. Sadly Muslims believe their religion is the best in town.
    I feel for Muslim women and LGBTs. Those Muslim women have to wear the Burqa in damn 40ºC (104ºF) temperature in places like Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. They go to swimming pool and beaches in Burqa. I don't think any sensible person given option would choose to do that. If it had been about freedom I doubt except few many would have chosen options like this. Its more about religion dictating your life instead of giving you choices.



    The only difference between Islam and chritianity is a few 1000 years apart. Other than that they all have the same shit smell to me!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 7:56 PM GMT
    ryan2013 said
    Shagglot said
    ryan2013 said[quote][cite]Shagglot said[/cite]
    What physical make up? Do you think man and woman don't do Anal sex? Do you think those straight couple who can't have babies are not allowed to be together?
    You didn't answer me whether an old guy marrying an underage girl is sin or not? Didn't that happen in your holy book? Isn't it a sin? [quote]


    I am referring to genitals make up of male and female. They are structured for it to be combined during intimacy. Yes I am aware straight couple have anal sex, but it is forbidden in many religion.


    The marriage happened 1400 ago, not today. At that time, their marriage was not considered unusual and the proof is that the enemies of Muslims at that time did not criticize this marriage. They attacked prophet Mohammad on many issues, yet they didn't criticize his marriage to Aisha.

    God wanted prophet Mohammad to marry a young girl so that she can outlive him by many years so that she can serve an important reference and resource for Muslims long after prophet Mohammad dies.

    She indicated that it was a great honor and privilege to be married to prophet Mohammad. If she did not marry him, she would have lived and died as an ordinary woman. She became famous and gained a special status of respect because of her marriage to prophet Mohammad.

    The marriage was taken with the girl's consent.


    ALSO I am not going to be judgmental about the gay issue considering I am a gay man myself, which makes me a total hypocrite. So if I am being offensive to anyone with my gay issue, I apologize. I wish there was a way around the religion, so I can be happy.

    And I sooooooooooo made this thread off topic. Sorry about that.


    You say it happened long time ago so its not a sin. Then the book was written also a long time ago. Why do you need to follow that book in this age of science and logic? You can't choose something which favors you and then reject things which you can't justify.
    Girl's consent at 10 year? Are you kidding me?




    I am not God. Whatever is in the book, it is in the book. I can't make up rules. If it doesn't say anything about under age marriage- I am assume it is not a sin. However forced marriage is not allowed in Islam even though I am sure many muslim family do it including mine. My parents are keep pressuring me to get married, eventhough I don't want to.

    I follow it because it is a guide to live my life in a peaceful manner. I feel like religion is there as guidance. it is humans are who are the danger to this world. They manipulate and exploit other beings for their own purpose. What religion ask to be peaceful, don't lie, don't cheat, no adultery, give charity, worship God, fast. It is not that hard to follow.

    Ryan, first of all I would say please don't think I am attacking you. I am just trying to engage in conversation with you because I think for Muslims its really hard given how religious generally their background is. For your sake don't think people are trying to make you feel bad or anything. I think most of them are trying to make you feel better about yourself.
    Underage marriage is wrong proven by science. You should read more into science as it will help you more in analyzing things than your holy book. You are human and you have a fully functional brain. Allah gave you that brain for utilizing it and thinking by yourself. So that's a gift from your Allah. Utilize it more often.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 7:58 PM GMT
    may11 said
    Shagglot saidIslam needs to remove many more things apart from Burqa like any other religion. Sadly Muslims believe their religion is the best in town.
    I feel for Muslim women and LGBTs. Those Muslim women have to wear the Burqa in damn 40ºC (104ºF) temperature in places like Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. They go to swimming pool and beaches in Burqa. I don't think any sensible person given option would choose to do that. If it had been about freedom I doubt except few many would have chosen options like this. Its more about religion dictating your life instead of giving you choices.



    The only difference between Islam and chritianity is a few 1000 years apart. Other than that they all have the same shit smell to me!

    I think all the religion share same shit at some level. Its just certain religion has been denounced by its follower more than the other.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 8:00 PM GMT
    morleyq said
    ryan2013 saidIt is just matter of which religion is the right one. Which will only be known after death.

    What if there is no supreme being and no religion is right?
    How would you find that out even after death?


    ryan2013 saidIt is matter of choice between what I want, Afterlife or worldly life. Issues will arise when I tell my parents about my sexuality.

    Yet you had no choice about whether you were born gay.
    And if there is no afterlife? What sort of choice are you left with?



    LOL if it turns out that there is no supreme being, then we would be non existent so no guilt, no regret and too bad for me for fighting myself for nothing for however long I will live. I rather fight for small amount of years, live a good afterlife (hopefully) for eternity than live my life now however I want then find out that afterlife exist and I made the wrong choice.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 8:13 PM GMT
    ryan2013 said
    waterloonicetop said

    Right. If they think it is a sin "for themselves" no problem. When they advocate it in public "for others", then they can get the hell out! There is absolutely no wiggle room here. You are a hypocrite to the extreme. If you lived in most middle eastern countries you would be brutally Murdered for being yourself, by tolerating even a LITTLE of that sort of barbarism you are subhuman.


    Yes I agree I would be killed if I was in my country.

    I feel hypocritical . I can't change religion because of the way I was brought up, and I can't change my sexuality and that's my life story. .

    Of course you could "change" your religion - not that almost anyone on this site would advocate you switch to another fantasy belief system. Most people in the US and UK (I don't know here you are) were at least started being brought up as some type of christian. A lot of us (for the most part the educated ones) no longer really believe in the fantasy christian stuff that was told to us as children. These people don't start adopting another fantasy religion - they just stop believing in gods.

    But the idea that one just can't "change religions" because he was brought up in one is absurd. The fundie protestants are still roaming the world, trying to change the religion of people. Before christ came along 2000 years ago, there was no christianity - and there has been mass conversion to that religion ever since. Before Mohammad came along about the year 700 or 800, there were no muslims - there was no islam - and then they started converting people to their new religion, killing those who didn't want to. Thankfully, the mormans haven't killed too many except their own and indians, but they started to get people to "change" their religion about 150 years ago, and continue to do so at a rapid rate. People "change" religions all the time.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 8:13 PM GMT
    The major problem with sacred texts (be it the Bible, the Quran and the Hadiths, the Torah and Talmud, and the Vedas and whatever recordings of the Buddha's teachings have had the tampering hands of many who would seat themselves on the Throne of God and presume authority over the rest of us dumb sheep as what is holy and what is profane.

    A little more than a casual glance at both the Bible and Quran will find some extremely unpleasant verses directed at unbelievers, LGBT folk, and people not of The Tribe (be it non-Jews, non-Muslims, or any other sort of "heathen".

    I shan't even begin to enumerate them; I personally believe that a lot of these "bashing verses" were added over time by the so called authorities who had access to publishing and distributing "the Word of God" (which may or may not have been divinely inspired...?)who had their own agendas against the social "enemies of the regime".

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 8:25 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    ryan2013 saidAs far as what is in my brain lol- I don't think being gay is wrong. Love is love regardless of gender. but I know the guilt will kill me because of the way I was brought up.

    physical make up of woman and man body, cultural roles, reproduction process, I also read anal sex is not good for the body. All these things makes me feel like it is not suppose to be this way.


    I feel bad that guilt wrought by your upbringing is killing you. Your life matters more than that. And an upbringing that makes you regret living has failed you.

    And "feel like it is not suppose to be..." in the second paragraph is another failure of your upbringing. Purposed derived from archaic misunderstandings and misappropriations of what it means to be human (or alive) will also contribute to your confusion.

    Sorry, I don't mean to jump on you for your upbringing, but you matter more than you have given yourself credit. If you believe in Allah, then Allah made you this way. Those who do not understand Allah's purpose with you will always attempt to deceive you about your worth to Allah. If you were not meant to be gay, Allah would not have made you this way. For anyone to question that is to question his will and his wisdom.

    Stop letting guilt about your misunderstanding about Allah's purpose for you prevent you from living a whole and moral life. Anyone who claims that Allah made you just so that you could serve as a cautionary tale to others is perverting the will of Allah and blaspheming him.

    Did Allah make men black? Should those black men listen to the blasphemers who insist that Allah thought those men were less valuable than white men? Allah made those men black, and he did it for his purpose. Allah made you gay. Stop questioning that and thank him.



    I respect other people's opinion so no apology necessary as long as there is no dis respectfulness . Yes I do believe Allah made me this way because that is how I have always been. What I don't get is Why we were born like this if it is supposedly a sin. I mean if we had a choice then this would have made sense to me. In Quran, it specifically mentions homosexual act as a non acceptable behavior. Yes Allah made people is wide range of skin tone lol, but nothing in quran states regards to value of our being based on color of our skin. lol I don't even know what I am going to do with my life. I guess I am going day by day and just go with the flow.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 8:35 PM GMT
    Shagglot said
    ryan2013 said
    Shagglot said
    ryan2013 said[quote][cite]Shagglot said[/cite]
    What physical make up? Do you think man and woman don't do Anal sex? Do you think those straight couple who can't have babies are not allowed to be together?
    You didn't answer me whether an old guy marrying an underage girl is sin or not? Didn't that happen in your holy book? Isn't it a sin? [quote]


    I am referring to genitals make up of male and female. They are structured for it to be combined during intimacy. Yes I am aware straight couple have anal sex, but it is forbidden in many religion.


    The marriage happened 1400 ago, not today. At that time, their marriage was not considered unusual and the proof is that the enemies of Muslims at that time did not criticize this marriage. They attacked prophet Mohammad on many issues, yet they didn't criticize his marriage to Aisha.

    God wanted prophet Mohammad to marry a young girl so that she can outlive him by many years so that she can serve an important reference and resource for Muslims long after prophet Mohammad dies.

    She indicated that it was a great honor and privilege to be married to prophet Mohammad. If she did not marry him, she would have lived and died as an ordinary woman. She became famous and gained a special status of respect because of her marriage to prophet Mohammad.

    The marriage was taken with the girl's consent.


    ALSO I am not going to be judgmental about the gay issue considering I am a gay man myself, which makes me a total hypocrite. So if I am being offensive to anyone with my gay issue, I apologize. I wish there was a way around the religion, so I can be happy.

    And I sooooooooooo made this thread off topic. Sorry about that.


    You say it happened long time ago so its not a sin. Then the book was written also a long time ago. Why do you need to follow that book in this age of science and logic? You can't choose something which favors you and then reject things which you can't justify.
    Girl's consent at 10 year? Are you kidding me?




    I am not God. Whatever is in the book, it is in the book. I can't make up rules. If it doesn't say anything about under age marriage- I am assume it is not a sin. However forced marriage is not allowed in Islam even though I am sure many muslim family do it including mine. My parents are keep pressuring me to get married, eventhough I don't want to.

    I follow it because it is a guide to live my life in a peaceful manner. I feel like religion is there as guidance. it is humans are who are the danger to this world. They manipulate and exploit other beings for their own purpose. What religion ask to be peaceful, don't lie, don't cheat, no adultery, give charity, worship God, fast. It is not that hard to follow.


    Ryan, first of all I would say please don't think I am attacking you. I am just trying to engage in conversation with you because I think for Muslims its really hard given how religious generally their background is. For your sake don't think people are trying to make you feel bad or anything. I think most of them are trying to make you feel better about yourself.
    Underage marriage is wrong proven by science. You should read more into science as it will help you more in analyzing things than your holy book. You are human and you have a fully functional brain. Allah gave you that brain for utilizing it and thinking by yourself. So that's a gift from your Allah. Utilize it more often.


    Oh No. I don't think you are attacking me. We all have our own belief and I am aware of that. Yes he has given me a brain and a free will and guidance. lol After life is for eternal and I fear of following the wrong path, sometimes I don't know what that the right path is. That's life I suppose.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 8:36 PM GMT
    I come from a Muslim family and women in my family always had a choice to wear the veil or not. I have one sister that does and the other chose to take it off. Both pray and follow the same roots as my mother. My father, who converted to Islam, never believed in treating women unequally. I am not a religious man, for my own reasons, but somewhere in me sees Allah as the light at the end of the tunnel.

    Anyhow, doing my own research i noticed our sect of Islam does not believe in the extremist Muslims. Wearing a Burqa did not come from faithful Muslim men, it came from wrong-doing Muslims that cover their shame (mistresses) from their wife. Covering their mistresses top to bottom made it easier to be unfaithful and harder to know with whom they cheated with. Many centuries after, women wearing the Burqa became a symbol for wealthy men owning their shame as a prize... The Burqa is use by one particular Muslim sect and unfortunately they ruin the image of true Islam, sadly all religions have the same problem.

    I am completely against the whole thing...and know many Muslims who feel the same.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 8:46 PM GMT
    ryan2013 saidI am not God. Whatever is in the book, it is in the book. I can't make up rules. ...it is humans are who are the danger to this world. They manipulate and exploit other beings for their own purpose.

    Are you sure the book is directly from God and has not been manipulated by other humans in pursuit of their own purposes?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 9:31 PM GMT
    morleyq said
    ryan2013 saidI am not God. Whatever is in the book, it is in the book. I can't make up rules. ...it is humans are who are the danger to this world. They manipulate and exploit other beings for their own purpose.

    Are you sure the book is directly from God and has not been manipulated by other humans in pursuit of their own purposes?


    There is religion, which is any series of contrived practices and ideas that humans follow in their (largely vain) attempts to approach God.

    Then there is Faith, which God gives to those who earnestly seek Him, and is independent of man's religious contrivance.

    Just as the poster upthread whose sisters differ on wearing the veil, yet both believe.
  • shutoman

    Posts: 530

    Dec 29, 2012 10:08 PM GMT
    I believe in people's rights to wear what they want, in reason - but equally I have to say that I do find covering the face to be both rude and sinister.

    So, if a woman (or a man for that matter) wants to wear the burqa - they may do so; but equally, I think I should be entitled to ask them to remove it if they want to talk to me or have dealings with me.

    By the burqa, I mean the Central Asian double dress of inner dress (which is tightly tapered so that a woman cannot run) and an outer cape which is tightly forced over the head with a woven grill to allow sight out but not in. I can't see why anyone would want to wear it either, and I know of no Khoranic evidence that is is a requirement of Islam. So the statement that it is a religious requirement should be treated with scepticism.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 10:09 PM GMT
    ryan2013 saidif it turns out that there is no supreme being, then we would be non existent so no guilt, no regret and too bad for me for fighting myself for nothing for however long I will live. I rather fight for small amount of years, live a good afterlife (hopefully) for eternity than live my life now however I want then find out that afterlife exist and I made the wrong choice.

    But then you're back to which religion is right. You assume it is Islam because you were born into it. If your parents were Christians or Buddhists, you'd assume that was the right way. So there's still a high chance that you'll fight for a small amount of years -- your entire lifetime -- and still not be rewarded with a good afterlife.

    Worse, if this lifetime is all we have -- dust to dust, ashes to ashes -- then you will have sacrificed it for nothing.

    I believe our reward is in this life. Not for jumping through hoops but for doing good deeds, for doing and accomplishing. I know that doing so always makes me feel better about myself. I don't believe in a divine being, but if I end up in front of one at the end of my days, I think I can be proud of my record. And if this divine being thinks I should go to hell because I chose to pray on the wrong day of the week or in the wrong building... well, I don't think that being is one I should worship, anyhow.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 29, 2012 11:20 PM GMT
    The burqa is a symbol of oppression, and goes against everything that the women of this country fought for.

    Yes, it should be banned.

    For those saying it shouldn't be banned simply because it's part of their religion, you should also be in favor of burning gays and adulterers, because that's also part of their religion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 30, 2012 2:03 AM GMT
    morleyq said
    ryan2013 saidif it turns out that there is no supreme being, then we would be non existent so no guilt, no regret and too bad for me for fighting myself for nothing for however long I will live. I rather fight for small amount of years, live a good afterlife (hopefully) for eternity than live my life now however I want then find out that afterlife exist and I made the wrong choice.

    But then you're back to which religion is right. You assume it is Islam because you were born into it. If your parents were Christians or Buddhists, you'd assume that was the right way. So there's still a high chance that you'll fight for a small amount of years -- your entire lifetime -- and still not be rewarded with a good afterlife.

    Worse, if this lifetime is all we have -- dust to dust, ashes to ashes -- then you will have sacrificed it for nothing.

    I believe our reward is in this life. Not for jumping through hoops but for doing good deeds, for doing and accomplishing. I know that doing so always makes me feel better about myself. I don't believe in a divine being, but if I end up in front of one at the end of my days, I think I can be proud of my record. And if this divine being thinks I should go to hell because I chose to pray on the wrong day of the week or in the wrong building... well, I don't think that being is one I should worship, anyhow.


    Yeah you are right. Most people who are born into the parent's religion only know that religion. I guess seeking knowledge would be the way to go instead of following blindly. There is no known answer since once a person is dead, they don't come back to life to tell you what will happen afterwards.. One of the mystery of life just as atheist don't have the answer to how the life and earth came to be and religious followers don't have the answer to if everything has a creator, then who created God.

    I am glad you do good deeds, It is good for our spiritual being. Well going to hell is not some casual place to be as you are making out to be. Its forever.
    Besides, I am not to judge who will go in heaven or hell. Hey you could end up in heaven if God likes your deeds. Who knows.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 30, 2012 2:06 AM GMT
    If the burqa is to be allowed, it should be used wisely. There are women, and men, who need to be covered from head to toe in order to protect society. All humans have an obligation to look good. If you can't look good, cover youself. If I could do away with that dumb little piece of mosquito netting they put over the eyes, I would. If you're deserving of a burqa, you don't deserve to see, either.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 30, 2012 2:46 AM GMT
    ryan2013 said
    morleyq said
    ryan2013 saidif it turns out that there is no supreme being, then we would be non existent so no guilt, no regret and too bad for me for fighting myself for nothing for however long I will live. I rather fight for small amount of years, live a good afterlife (hopefully) for eternity than live my life now however I want then find out that afterlife exist and I made the wrong choice.

    But then you're back to which religion is right. You assume it is Islam because you were born into it. If your parents were Christians or Buddhists, you'd assume that was the right way. So there's still a high chance that you'll fight for a small amount of years -- your entire lifetime -- and still not be rewarded with a good afterlife.

    Worse, if this lifetime is all we have -- dust to dust, ashes to ashes -- then you will have sacrificed it for nothing.

    .


    One of the mystery of life just as atheists don't have the answer to how the life and earth came to be and religious followers don't have the answer to if everything has a creator, then who created God.

    No - atheists as well as other educated persons know how life and earth came to be - it's the religious types that make up the fantasy stories about it. Earth (and all the other planets) were formed by dust aggregating together by gravity. To think otherwise, you might just as well believe the greek dream that Zeus created them, and that Apollo drives the sun across the sky each day in a horse-drawn chariot. Life was created on earth by the chance evolution of replicating organic molecules from the soup of chemicals on earth. No god, including Allah, Yahwe, Brahma, Odin, Thor, Isis, or Zeus, was required.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 30, 2012 5:29 AM GMT
    Puppenjunge said
    ryan2013 said
    morleyq said
    ryan2013 saidif it turns out that there is no supreme being, then we would be non existent so no guilt, no regret and too bad for me for fighting myself for nothing for however long I will live. I rather fight for small amount of years, live a good afterlife (hopefully) for eternity than live my life now however I want then find out that afterlife exist and I made the wrong choice.

    But then you're back to which religion is right. You assume it is Islam because you were born into it. If your parents were Christians or Buddhists, you'd assume that was the right way. So there's still a high chance that you'll fight for a small amount of years -- your entire lifetime -- and still not be rewarded with a good afterlife.

    Worse, if this lifetime is all we have -- dust to dust, ashes to ashes -- then you will have sacrificed it for nothing.

    .


    One of the mystery of life just as atheists don't have the answer to how the life and earth came to be and religious followers don't have the answer to if everything has a creator, then who created God.

    No - atheists as well as other educated persons know how life and earth came to be - it's the religious types that make up the fantasy stories about it. Earth (and all the other planets) were formed by dust aggregating together by gravity. To think otherwise, you might just as well believe the greek dream that Zeus created them, and that Apollo drives the sun across the sky each day in a horse-drawn chariot. Life was created on earth by the chance evolution of replicating organic molecules from the soup of chemicals on earth. No god, including Allah, Yahwe, Brahma, Odin, Thor, Isis, or Zeus, was required.



    LOL. So dust magically came about, and so did gravity ,elements of water, genetic make up of human beings, animals and the sun. It seems like it was just meant to be. Yes makes so much sense to me now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 30, 2012 7:52 AM GMT
    ryan2013 said
    Puppenjunge said
    ryan2013 said
    morleyq said
    ryan2013 saidif it turns out that there is no supreme being, then we would be non existent so no guilt, no regret and too bad for me for fighting myself for nothing for however long I will live. I rather fight for small amount of years, live a good afterlife (hopefully) for eternity than live my life now however I want then find out that afterlife exist and I made the wrong choice.

    But then you're back to which religion is right. You assume it is Islam because you were born into it. If your parents were Christians or Buddhists, you'd assume that was the right way. So there's still a high chance that you'll fight for a small amount of years -- your entire lifetime -- and still not be rewarded with a good afterlife.

    Worse, if this lifetime is all we have -- dust to dust, ashes to ashes -- then you will have sacrificed it for nothing.

    .


    One of the mystery of life just as atheists don't have the answer to how the life and earth came to be and religious followers don't have the answer to if everything has a creator, then who created God.

    No - atheists as well as other educated persons know how life and earth came to be - it's the religious types that make up the fantasy stories about it. Earth (and all the other planets) were formed by dust aggregating together by gravity. To think otherwise, you might just as well believe the greek dream that Zeus created them, and that Apollo drives the sun across the sky each day in a horse-drawn chariot. Life was created on earth by the chance evolution of replicating organic molecules from the soup of chemicals on earth. No god, including Allah, Yahwe, Brahma, Odin, Thor, Isis, or Zeus, was required.



    LOL. So dust magically came about, and so did gravity ,elements of water, genetic make up of human beings, animals and the sun. It seems like it was just meant to be. Yes makes so much sense to me now.

    No - there was no magic involved - it was surely at the direction of the Flying Spaghetti Monster - whom we should really bow down to and worship - unless that worship might offend the the other pasta monsters - like the Farfalla Monster or the Rigatoni Monster, or the Linguini Monster, who also demand worship from humans.

    I would say that god did not create man, but man created god, by imagining him/her/it to satisfy man's needs.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 31, 2012 9:37 PM GMT
    People will believe the unbelievable, as folks like Ryan show (that's what makes them so dangerous). Whether it was the SS and The Third Reich, Jim Jones, The Mormons, The Catholics, The whatever....false belief systems are what they are. They become dangerous when folks do them without a moral compass...and the false belief system dominates them and their morality.

    Ryan shows that he feels compliance (said so much) needs to defined by religion, rather than morality. I submit that just the opposite is true. The horrible crimes of various false belief systems over the years, have been devoid of morality but, done in the name of religion / enforced compliance / purification. Probably few are worse than The Holocaust, but, the Middle East, and The Muslims are hanging in there.

    This is why it's so important to stand up to these false belief systems. Our morality should not be guided by a false belief system (study up on the SS and The Third Reich), but, rather, by what we know is the difference right and wrong.

    Secular governments serve (especially U.S.) protect the MINORITY viewpoint, no matter how unpopular it might be. Ryan would have us killing folks in disagreements saying that "man has to be controlled" (his words).

    Folks in these false belief systems truly DO believe THE UNBELIEVABLE. When they seek to impose that on others, they become a clear and present danger to us all.

    Parochial governments are dangerous, whether they are Pakistan, or North Korea, or The Nazis...they are all religions / cults / false belief systems that impose a completely skewed, warped, delusional view upon the population, usually ignoring well founded science, and intent on suppressing technology / communications / free thought. The Holocaust exemplifies this more than any other in modern times. Over 60 MILLION folks lost their lives in World War II, many as a result of methodically killing Jews in the religion of The SS. Religions are incredibly dangerous.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/31/15996724-from-alcohol-to-kites-an-a-to-z-guide-to-the-islamic-republic-of-banistan?lite=

    I will defend the right to wear whatever at home...in our castle...but...in public...it is a clearly reasonable expectation that you show your face, and has nothing to do with religious freedom and everything to do with the public good and security at large.

    It's important to understand that false belief systems are what they are..unbelievable.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 31, 2012 9:42 PM GMT
    Puppenjunge said
    ryan2013 said
    Puppenjunge said
    ryan2013 said
    morleyq said
    ryan2013 saidif it turns out that there is no supreme being, then we would be non existent so no guilt, no regret and too bad for me for fighting myself for nothing for however long I will live. I rather fight for small amount of years, live a good afterlife (hopefully) for eternity than live my life now however I want then find out that afterlife exist and I made the wrong choice.

    But then you're back to which religion is right. You assume it is Islam because you were born into it. If your parents were Christians or Buddhists, you'd assume that was the right way. So there's still a high chance that you'll fight for a small amount of years -- your entire lifetime -- and still not be rewarded with a good afterlife.

    Worse, if this lifetime is all we have -- dust to dust, ashes to ashes -- then you will have sacrificed it for nothing.

    .


    One of the mystery of life just as atheists don't have the answer to how the life and earth came to be and religious followers don't have the answer to if everything has a creator, then who created God.

    No - atheists as well as other educated persons know how life and earth came to be - it's the religious types that make up the fantasy stories about it. Earth (and all the other planets) were formed by dust aggregating together by gravity. To think otherwise, you might just as well believe the greek dream that Zeus created them, and that Apollo drives the sun across the sky each day in a horse-drawn chariot. Life was created on earth by the chance evolution of replicating organic molecules from the soup of chemicals on earth. No god, including Allah, Yahwe, Brahma, Odin, Thor, Isis, or Zeus, was required.



    LOL. So dust magically came about, and so did gravity ,elements of water, genetic make up of human beings, animals and the sun. It seems like it was just meant to be. Yes makes so much sense to me now.

    No - there was no magic involved - it was surely at the direction of the Flying Spaghetti Monster - whom we should really bow down to and worship - unless that worship might offend the the other pasta monsters - like the Farfalla Monster or the Rigatoni Monster, or the Linguini Monster, who also demand worship from humans.

    I would say that god did not create man, but man created god, by imagining him/her/it to satisfy man's needs.


    +1 To explain what they did not yet understand.

    Einstein was called a nut by religion. Clearly, he was not.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2013 7:27 AM GMT
    ryan2013 said
    Shagglot said

    Sort out your issues first man. You need to get over that fairy book and realize your life is yours own which shouldn't be commanded by a book. The moment you understand this you will see how things make sense. Right now you are deeply overpowered by the holy book you have been made to read right from the moment you were born.


    First of all- Maybe you should read the book before being judgmental and calling the Quran as a fairy book. Quran is a guide to peaceful life, which gives structure and boundaries so humans don't go out of control. (Islam does not equal terrorism for those with ignorant beliefs.)
    It prohibits alcohol, drugs, lust, dis respectfulness towards parents. It gives us purpose in our life for those who are lost. You see, if one follows Islam, there are so many issues that wouldn't exist. I think following any religion properly improves ones personal life because Judaism and Christianity also have same roots . It is just matter of which religion is the right one. Which will only be known after death.

    "Sort out your issues first man." I don't think they are issues, It is matter of choice between what I want, Afterlife or worldly life. Issues will arise when I tell my parents about my sexuality.


    Its been researched that all of the secular countries have done fairly well compared to religious countries who have done really bad and struggle.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2013 7:45 AM GMT
    I'm going to avoid the moral/fair/emotional reason usually given and state a few facts and let you make up your own mind.

    The face covering is actually called a Niqab. The 'Burqa' is something else and is usually never seen in the western world. Unless I'm mistaken, it's only common in Afghanistan.

    There is NOTHING in the Quran about the Niqab or any other sort of face covering. All 'justification' of it comes from secondary Islamic texts, and is itself widely disputed among Muslims themselves.

    Now,

    There is no realistic way to 'determine' whether a woman is wearing it out of choice or not. You can take them at their word and be bullshitted. If you were a woman who was forced to wear it, would you lie and say its your own choice to protect your own husband/family, or would you cry 'HELP', get outsiders involved in family matters and potentially embarrass yourself and your whole family/community, etc. Be realistic.
    Either ban it for everyone, meaning those who do wear it as a choice...tough luck.
    Or let them wear it, and accept that some women will suffer from being forced to wear it.
    Freedom to, vs Freedom from. Sometimes you can't have both.
    Don't underestimate the influence of family, friends and the 'community' of religious people, especially Islamic communities which are very close-knit and even 'distant' to outsiders. A lot are forced to wear it, and if you disagree you're naive and should probably spend more time with Muslims..

    Secondly, choosing to wear the Niqab is not the same choosing to put on some random piece of clothing like jeans or a t-shirt.
    It has specific reasons behind it, in some cases 'religious', but from what the whole 'Islam' thing has turned into, it has become the uniform of choice for what we call 'fundamentalist Muslims'.

    Whatever the original intended purpose of the Niqab, it is today a political symbol of "Islamism", and even through poor research you will eventually realize that the more 'Islamic' a place is, the more Niqab's show up.
    And secondly, if you look at the women involved in 'Islamist' movements, the Niqab is extremely common, unlike in the general female Islamic population.
    Women who wear a Niqab are much more 'fanatical' than your everyday Muslim woman.

    Keep that in mind.
    The cloth itself isn't the problem, its the reasons behind it.

    Not to mention the sexist/idiotic idea that women need to be 'veiled' off from men lest the men lose their control and descend into a rape-orgy.



    There is nothing civilized about the Niqab. Not even slightly. It's a medieval throwback which has today become a fanatical political symbol. Everyone knows it.

    There is a reason most Muslim women don't wear it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2013 7:52 AM GMT
    Lovely followers of the religion of peace:

    5504144_579cb3475d_m.jpeg

    Fuck the sexist oppression known as the burqa, niqab, and hijab. If it's not acceptable for people to walk around clad in ski masks and baggy black clothes under which they could easily conceal a weapon, why is it OK for Muslimas to dress in a similar fashion with their ridiculous ninja costumes?