banning the burqa

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    Jan 13, 2013 8:56 AM GMT
    Trollileo saidKind of puts it into perspective for me in a very sick way.

    XqeuJ.jpg


    Oh my! I giggled icon_redface.gif
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    Jan 13, 2013 9:01 AM GMT
    Burqas are not hott in desert weather contrary to popular belief
    ALSO, isn't seeing girls in this country walking around half naked make them objectified? It's just going the opposite direction, it's not a good thing

    Wearing a Burqa in the West is not oppression because they have the option of taking it off without facing legal punishment

    And based on people's comments, I guess we should remove all religious costumes for nuns or bishops, etc
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    Jan 13, 2013 9:13 AM GMT
    I actually agree with the niqab ban and my family is muslim.



    I am all for freedom of choice, but no one in my family wears a niqab. A few older aunts and grandmas wear hjiab ( a head scarF) but thats it.


    I think its good if they ban it. If you want to wear a headscarf, then thats your choice..but burqa's, and niqabs is just oppressing women!

    Any woman wearing a niqab will likely try to convince other women to do the same. Just my .02 $
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    Jan 13, 2013 9:52 AM GMT
    Let people wear whatever the fuck they want as long as it's their choice and not forced on them.

    I've met a few Muslim girls who have chosen to wear a burqa and when I've asked them why they have all said it's a personal choice and that they feel more comfortable wearing one despite all the bullshit they get from the general public.

    I understand that culturally and politically it's an issue but at the same time the outright ban of an item of clothing is just stupid.
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    Jan 13, 2013 11:15 AM GMT
    In an insane society / cult / religion a sane man must appear as insane to be regarded as sane. That is oppression / cults / religion work. Rejection and injury for non-compliance. (I'm not talking things like stealing. Some countries, like Saudi Arabia, built on American oil dollars, won't allow a woman to drive, much less be a political influence.)

    If you're raised in an in environment where women are subverted / property, then...you may well make that your comfort zone, but..that doesn't mean it sits right on the moral compass. Ignorant people don't know they're ignorant, and often do develop a comfort zone there.

    As a practical matter, in public, folks need to be identifiable. Wear want you want at home, but, in public, on video, everywhere you go, in this country..you rarely get to hide, and that's where the public good exceeds the cult views.

    Your First Amendment Right is not preserved if you become unidentifiable. The public has a right to know who is about, and...almost any rational person can understand that.

    The issue really is that how oppression and false belief systems are not rational. They are unbelievable. Brainwashing is what it is. Folks immersed in it, in say, North Korea, or Saudi Arabia, don't always realize they are immersed in a cult, but, that doesn't mean they aren't.

    I worked for a major, huge, telecommunications, vendor that has a high Indian / Muslim workforce. I was appalled one day in the break room when a young man, 24, just in from India, spoke to this young Indian woman who was born here...and...she took it. He spoke to her like she was a trained animal. In these cultures, dogs often have more consideration than woman; it was deplorable.

    Another day, I was in that same break room (I just happened to be in the office that day, but, could, and often did, work from anywhere.) A guy who was very ungroomed made the remark to me.."Men should have hair!" (Referencing my shaved, tanned, pumped up bod." The next day, an edict came from the business unit manager that I had to wear pants moving forward. This happened this past May. (Hairy Indian guys get to wear shorts, and sandals, FYI.) I did not put my 6 figure job on the line over some religious nut, but..it is a true story.

    We don't need to be another Saudi Arabia, or another North Korea, and it's a reasonable expectation that folks be identifiable on video when in public.

    XqeuJ.jpg

    I'm afraid folks like Ryan, actually believe in the cult stuff, and think it's o.k. I think that's more than a little scary to many rational people.
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    Jan 13, 2013 11:54 AM GMT
    Joeyphx444 saidBurqas are not hott in desert weather contrary to popular belief
    ALSO, isn't seeing girls in this country walking around half naked make them objectified? It's just going the opposite direction, it's not a good thing

    Wearing a Burqa in the West is not oppression because they have the option of taking it off without facing legal punishment

    And based on people's comments, I guess we should remove all religious costumes for nuns or bishops, etc


    +1

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    Jan 13, 2013 1:33 PM GMT
    Shagglot said[quote][cite]Shagglot said[/cite]
    calibro said
    Shagglot said
    calibro saidi like how a lot of people assume the burqa is an object of female oppression without asking the women themselves if they mind.

    Yeah like asking prisoners whether they like the prison or not?


    actually, many women who wear burqas do so happily. it's a question of your western ideals over their aesthetics. if you are raised to believe the burqa is as natural as wearing socks, it's not the extreme prison you think it is. you're totally disregarding that many women believe in the ideas of modesty behind the burqa

    Obviously if you raise a kid in Prison without showing him the outside world his life will be that of a frog in the well. Its same with those women who have been raised in a conservative religiously dominated male centric society. Bring them to western world and show how many privileges they can enjoy and then ask how many of them are still ready to follow all those orthodox values ? I bet very small percentage and most of them will be due to the family pressure instead of their own accord.
    I am from a conservative society where women are supposed to always think about her husband's interest over her own. She is suppose to be an ideal woman staying inside home cooking for his husband, taking care of children. But all of this are changing in bigger cities where educated women work and none of them advocate older orthodox values.



    the blindness of your own point of view shaped by your values. Cannot imagine others have different ones.
    Reminds me of the original Star Trek series: a society that isn't adhering to American values is just "stagnating" or "misguided" and" they don't know any better." so the Prime Directive doesn't apply.


    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 13, 2013 1:43 PM GMT
    Upper_Cdn said
    the blindness of your own point of view shaped by your values. Cannot imagine others have different ones.
    Reminds me of the original Star Trek series: a society that isn't adhering to American values is just "stagnating" or "misguided" and" they don't know any better." so the Prime Directive doesn't apply.


    icon_rolleyes.gif

    What blindness? What value? I have lived in a society where I have interacted on daily basis with Muslims. I am not so ignorant as you may perceive. Its just not about American Society where I have never lived. Any normal civilized society would try to relieve itself from such means of oppression.
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    Jan 13, 2013 1:49 PM GMT
    Joeyphx444 saidBurqas are not hott in desert weather contrary to popular belief
    ALSO, isn't seeing girls in this country walking around half naked make them objectified? It's just going the opposite direction, it's not a good thing

    Wearing a Burqa in the West is not oppression because they have the option of taking it off without facing legal punishment

    And based on people's comments, I guess we should remove all religious costumes for nuns or bishops, etc

    Why is Burqa not hot? Do Burqas come equipped with an AC or what that it isn't hot? A black colored cloth covering you from head to toe. You do know black absorbs the maximum amount of heat. Its another thing if you are some rich Muslim women who is always under AC.
    Lol, objectification of women has very less to do with clothes. I would say more rapes happen in Muslim countries which are never reported.
    Nun & Bishops are religious people who have chosen their way of life. Its not compulsory for every christian to wear those clothes. Don't come again with the argument that all Muslim women of chosen Burqa according to their will. Thats just bunch of lies.
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    Jan 13, 2013 7:29 PM GMT
    Shagglot said
    Joeyphx444 saidBurqas are not hott in desert weather contrary to popular belief
    ALSO, isn't seeing girls in this country walking around half naked make them objectified? It's just going the opposite direction, it's not a good thing

    Wearing a Burqa in the West is not oppression because they have the option of taking it off without facing legal punishment

    And based on people's comments, I guess we should remove all religious costumes for nuns or bishops, etc

    Why is Burqa not hot? Do Burqas come equipped with an AC or what that it isn't hot? A black colored cloth covering you from head to toe. You do know black absorbs the maximum amount of heat. Its another thing if you are some rich Muslim women who is always under AC.
    Lol, objectification of women has very less to do with clothes. I would say more rapes happen in Muslim countries which are never reported.
    Nun & Bishops are religious people who have chosen their way of life. Its not compulsory for every christian to wear those clothes. Don't come again with the argument that all Muslim women of chosen Burqa according to their will. Thats just bunch of lies.


    http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/9-stupid-questions-from-americans-when-you-wear-the-burka/question-2246615/#comments

    Islam doesn't force the women to wear burqa's it's the people... Islam doesn't command the women to stay home in their kitchen, it's the people... Islam doesn't take away the freedom of a woman, it's the people...

    European/American women who by freewill converted to Islam, chooses to wear a burqa... By banning the burqa's in Europe or America isn't that oppression of a woman her freewill?

    It's not because a country is using the law, that it means it's not a form of oppression.
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    Jan 13, 2013 7:40 PM GMT
    Ammon said

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/9-stupid-questions-from-americans-when-you-wear-the-burka/question-2246615/#comments

    Islam doesn't force the women to wear burqa's it's the people... Islam doesn't command the women to stay home in their kitchen, it's the people... Islam doesn't take away the freedom of a woman, it's the people...

    European/American women who by freewill converted to Islam, chooses to wear a burqa... By banning the burqa's in Europe or America isn't that oppression of a woman her freewill?

    It's not because a country is using the law, that it means it's not a form of oppression.

    Are you going to talk about what Islam says and what it doesnt? I won't start a religious flame war here as it never ends well. For your sake I would first say you read about what ISLAM says about being gay as I guess being on this website you are gay. If you are really a follower of ISLAM you would have been stoned by your people by now but you are safe here sitting in a country which does protect freedom to a large extent if you compare to any MUSLIM country out there. Don't use this tactic of freedom to justify the oppression posed by Burqa.
    You should know first of all when you are living in a foreign country you need to respect the law like people have to when they are in a MUSLIM country. Like women can't drive/vote etc. Where did the freewill of woman go in that case?
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    Jan 13, 2013 7:42 PM GMT
    Shagglot said
    Ammon said

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/9-stupid-questions-from-americans-when-you-wear-the-burka/question-2246615/#comments

    Islam doesn't force the women to wear burqa's it's the people... Islam doesn't command the women to stay home in their kitchen, it's the people... Islam doesn't take away the freedom of a woman, it's the people...

    European/American women who by freewill converted to Islam, chooses to wear a burqa... By banning the burqa's in Europe or America isn't that oppression of a woman her freewill?

    It's not because a country is using the law, that it means it's not a form of oppression.

    Are you going to talk about what Islam says and what it doesnt? I won't start a religious flame war here as it never ends well. For your sake I would first say you read about what ISLAM says about being gay as I guess being on this website you are gay. If you are really a follower of ISLAM you would have been stoned by your people by now but you are safe here sitting in a country which does protect freedom to a large extent if you compare to any MUSLIM country out there. Don't use this tactic of freedom to justify the oppression posed by Burqa.
    You should know first of all when you are living in a foreign country you need to respect the law like people have to when they are in a MUSLIM country. Like women can't drive/vote etc. Where did the freewill of woman go in that case?


    We don't have to respect Islamic law even in a muslim country
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    Jan 13, 2013 7:43 PM GMT
    Personally, I feel everyone has the right to choose their religion and follow it as much or as little as they want. If someone wants to wear a burqa, so be it.
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    Jan 13, 2013 7:50 PM GMT
    FitGwynedd said
    We don't have to respect Islamic law even in a muslim country

    Be my guest! Go live in one of those countries as gay. I wonder if you like 72 virgins or not.
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    Jan 13, 2013 8:11 PM GMT
    Shagglot said
    Ammon said

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/9-stupid-questions-from-americans-when-you-wear-the-burka/question-2246615/#comments

    Islam doesn't force the women to wear burqa's it's the people... Islam doesn't command the women to stay home in their kitchen, it's the people... Islam doesn't take away the freedom of a woman, it's the people...

    European/American women who by freewill converted to Islam, chooses to wear a burqa... By banning the burqa's in Europe or America isn't that oppression of a woman her freewill?

    It's not because a country is using the law, that it means it's not a form of oppression.

    Are you going to talk about what Islam says and what it doesnt? I won't start a religious flame war here as it never ends well. For your sake I would first say you read about what ISLAM says about being gay as I guess being on this website you are gay. If you are really a follower of ISLAM you would have been stoned by your people by now but you are safe here sitting in a country which does protect freedom to a large extent if you compare to any MUSLIM country out there. Don't use this tactic of freedom to justify the oppression posed by Burqa.
    You should know first of all when you are living in a foreign country you need to respect the law like people have to when they are in a MUSLIM country. Like women can't drive/vote etc. Where did the freewill of woman go in that case?


    Why flame war it's simply a discussion, no need to make it a war out of it lol. I know plenty about being gay in Islam I never said on here that I'm a muslim nor did I deny it, so for you to change the subject and jump to conclusion that I am... I don't understand why? It was about burqa's no?

    But to jump on board for a sec:
    I live in a country where I was born in, so I have as much right to speak my mind and to disagree (like every other normal person does) with any law...
  • Arab_in_NL

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    Jan 13, 2013 8:11 PM GMT
    Stop watching Fox News! Stop talking about something you know nothing about!

    My mother wears Burqa and was NEVER pressued to have it on. In fact we asked her so many times to take it off but she doesn't want to.

    Why you don't post something about Orthodox Jewish women when they cover every inch of their bodies? Afraid of getting accused of Antisemitism?
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    Jan 13, 2013 8:20 PM GMT
    Ammon said
    Why flame war it's simply a discussion, no need to make it a war out of it lol. I know plenty about being gay in Islam I never said on here that I'm a muslim nor did I deny it, so for you to change the subject and jump to conclusion that I am... I don't understand why? It was about burqa's no?

    But to jump on board for a sec:
    I live in a country where I was born in, so I have as much right to speak my mind and to disagree (like every other normal person does) with any law...

    You brought ISLAM into the picture and used it as reference. So you will have to consider all the sides of ISLAM. You just can't take one thing and use it to your advantage. Religion is judged by its follower.
    If there won't be a follower religion will stop existing. So when you quote ISLAM about how it doesn't make you wear Burqa you should also be aware of the fact that its the follower of ISLAM who wears Burqa not from some another religion.
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    Jan 13, 2013 8:26 PM GMT
    Englishness saidStop watching Fox News! Stop talking about something you know nothing about!

    My mother wears Burqa and was NEVER pressued to have it on. In fact we asked her so many times to take it off but she doesn't want to.

    Why you don't post something about Orthodox Jewish women when they cover every inch of their bodies? Afraid of getting accused of Antisemitism?

    Why would she want to when all the woman around her wear one? She would be outcasted and ridiculed by her own neighbors.
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    Jan 13, 2013 8:41 PM GMT
    Shagglot said
    Ammon said
    Why flame war it's simply a discussion, no need to make it a war out of it lol. I know plenty about being gay in Islam I never said on here that I'm a muslim nor did I deny it, so for you to change the subject and jump to conclusion that I am... I don't understand why? It was about burqa's no?

    But to jump on board for a sec:
    I live in a country where I was born in, so I have as much right to speak my mind and to disagree (like every other normal person does) with any law...

    You brought ISLAM into the picture and used it as reference. So you will have to consider all the sides of ISLAM. You just can't take one thing and use it to your advantage. Religion is judged by its follower.
    If there won't be a follower religion will stop existing. So when you quote ISLAM about how it doesn't make you wear Burqa you should also be aware of the fact that its the follower of ISLAM who wears Burqa not from some another religion.


    I brought islam into the picture because through out the 5 pages here, there were numerous times that people insult a religion they know nothing about, I was born in a muslim family do you think a non-believer is going to teach me something about the religion I was born in...

    I am pro burqa's because my interactions with muslim women about burqa's and hijab, they all say the same thing, "it's my choice and nobody should have the right to take it away from me.." And I respect that even though in their eyes I'm going to hell... If you can't respect others their beliefs than what does that make you?
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    Jan 13, 2013 8:41 PM GMT
    yourname2000 said

    Imo, fucktards like Muslims, Moonies, Scientologists and all the other fake religions with their false prophets always want to use our values of religious freedom as a weapon against our other values. They have no such compunction in their homelands and see no contradiction there. Take, take, take, take, take....and give nothing back. A pox on all of them.

    Its actually very true. When in minority all these religious group will cry of how their religious freedom is being curbed. On the other hand when in majority those same people will encroach the right of freedom of others.
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    Jan 13, 2013 8:44 PM GMT
    Ammon said
    I brought islam into the picture because through out the 5 pages here, there were numerous times that people insult a religion they know nothing about, I was born in a muslim family do you think a non-believer is going to teach me something about the religion I was born in...

    I am pro burqa's because my interactions with muslim women about burqa's and hijab, they all say the same thing, it's my choice and nobody should have the right to take it away from me... And I respect that even though in their eyes I'm going to hell... If you can't respect others their beliefs than what does that make you?

    You love a religion which talks about killing you and putting you in a hell. Kudos to you! I wonder the hardship you will have to face when your own identity conflicts with the hatred spewed in your religious book.
    But I don't have respect for any such religion and I have already discarded mine even when it doesn't say anything about my gayness. Its just I see that it has made a mess out of people. So yeah I don't respect your religious belief. That doesn't make a me less of a man.
    I am tired of listening to how we need to read a god damn book to know how pure and peaceful a religion is when I can see how with my eyes the action of its follower.
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    Jan 13, 2013 8:54 PM GMT
    Shagglot said
    Ammon said
    I brought islam into the picture because through out the 5 pages here, there were numerous times that people insult a religion they know nothing about, I was born in a muslim family do you think a non-believer is going to teach me something about the religion I was born in...

    I am pro burqa's because my interactions with muslim women about burqa's and hijab, they all say the same thing, it's my choice and nobody should have the right to take it away from me... And I respect that even though in their eyes I'm going to hell... If you can't respect others their beliefs than what does that make you?

    You love a religion which talks about killing you and putting you in a hell.
    I don't respect any such religion and I have already discarded mine even when it doesn't say anything about my gayness. Its just I see it has made a mess out of people. So yeah I don't respect your religious belief. That doesn't make a me less of a man.
    I am tired of listening to how we need a read a god damn book to know how pure and peaceful a religion is when I can see how its follower and their actions.


    I like how you try and say I'm a muslim when in fact I still haven't said anywhere that I am... icon_smile.gif
    Don't take me wrong I don't dislike you nor do I think of you any less of a man.
    I simply giving my opinion, my thoughts, and you do to, maybe I can learn from it and vice versa...
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    Jan 13, 2013 8:56 PM GMT
    When I was in the middle east, the women didn't want to put on Burqa's. They wore them b/c they were harassed by men if they didn't, and they were afraid.
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    Jan 13, 2013 8:59 PM GMT
    Englishness saidStop watching Fox News! Stop talking about something you know nothing about!

    My mother wears Burqa and was NEVER pressued to have it on. In fact we asked her so many times to take it off but she doesn't want to.

    Why you don't post something about Orthodox Jewish women when they cover every inch of their bodies? Afraid of getting accused of Antisemitism?


    lol, keep crying Islamophobia, silly moose limb. Get the facts on the violent and intolerant ideology of Islam: http://www.jihadwatch.org http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com http://www.thereligionofpeace.com http://www.yourdailymuslim.com http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com
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    Jan 13, 2013 9:01 PM GMT
    Ammon said

    I like how you try and say I'm a muslim when in fact I still haven't said anywhere that I am... icon_smile.gif
    Don't take me wrong I don't dislike you nor do I think of you any less of a man.
    I simply giving my opinion, my thoughts, and you do to, maybe I can learn from it and vice versa...

    Neither do I dislike you.
    On the other hand I am not so dumb. When you say you were born in Muslim family and quote Koran and its instance on Burqa, it does seem you still are Muslim. Otherwise you won't be defending the same religion.Also you feel offended by the insult of same religion. What more proof do I need?
    I have also interacted with Muslim women who detested Burqa and they wore it because of family pressure.