"Some People Change"

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    Jan 21, 2013 8:53 PM GMT
    Yes, but most people confuse change with chaos.
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    Jan 21, 2013 9:27 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    JR_Lore saidSomewhat, but you really have to be clueless to think someone changed on you. People make choices that define who they are, and I believe everyone is capable of the mundane, beautiful, horrific, expected, and unexpected. I'd only be fooling myself to think things were and would continue to be the same.


    I don't know that I think things might stay the same but can I at least expect--even given some fluxuation--a continuum in the same general direction? Because when I see a 180 all of a sudden, I have my doubts as to its authenticity.

    As I sometimes wonder if I'm seeing someone differently or if they did actually change (and maybe sometimes it is a combination of the two), I have questioned the other person and had my suspicions confirmed. When my brother moved to town, I made specific changes in my behavior towards him to facilitate his changing. The changes consisted of two basic components and I was quite conscious of what I was doing: I stopped discussing with him anything that really mattered to me and just kept things to light conversation--I'm actually capable of that though I don't normally engage theantijock-lite. Just in doing that, but also additionally, I didn't let him push any of my buttons. I would be careful not to expose them, or if I accidentally did, I'd short circuit them before reacting to him pushing those buttons.

    At that time there were other issues in his life which helped him change but also, it turned out, he later admitted to me that he saw that he was being a fucked up guy, that he wasn't very nice to us, and he specifically endeavored to change himself. Redemption.

    I confronted my cousin on this too who had changed in the opposite direction. One of the horrible, yet far from the worst thing she said to me was that she felt that she didn't have to be nice to anyone anymore. She got all new agey and thought she had messages to deliver to others regardless of how those so-called messages might make someone feel. I couldn't fucking believe it. She was turning into the shit we see so often online of people not giving a crap about each other. I couldn't be more disappointed in her. And then she got even worse. She embraced the worst parts of herself. Lost cause.

    I think the elements were always present in your relationship, but the only change was how the situation was being dealt with. Like right, I'm in deep with my own internal chaos. Someone I liked and respected didn't share the same confidence in me, or lost something in his communication with me here. Albeit, I was in a fantasy in my mind, but nonetheless, I knew what could result. In my mind he's still the same as ever. I've been an ornery pain in the ass lately, but I don't think I changed either. I know this is just another lull in my life. I'd be easy to play the role of whatever, but this Cinderfoot has to save himself if happiness with come ever after.
    Its the painfully difficult times that make, break, and/or ultimately define a person's character. IMO. Your cousin only revealed this about herself. I'm sorry for the betrayal you feel. I've been in your place before, and may be again somehow. Accept you missed this aspect of family when you weren't expecting it, and do good by yourself and let it go. These low points in life can drag us pretty deep. Don't let them overpower your life and define you. Sorry if I seem to presume better.
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    Jan 21, 2013 9:28 PM GMT
    deltalimen saidYes, but most people confuse change with chaos.

    I used to.
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    Jan 21, 2013 9:35 PM GMT
    Some people do change but most of them revert back to their old habits...
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    Jan 22, 2013 1:05 AM GMT
    JR_Lore saidI think the elements were always present in your relationship, but the only change was how the situation was being dealt with. Like right, I'm in deep with my own internal chaos. Someone I liked and respected didn't share the same confidence in me, or lost something in his communication with me here. Albeit, I was in a fantasy in my mind, but nonetheless, I knew what could result. In my mind he's still the same as ever. I've been an ornery pain in the ass lately, but I don't think I changed either. I know this is just another lull in my life. I'd be easy to play the role of whatever, but this Cinderfoot has to save himself if happiness with come ever after.
    Its the painfully difficult times that make, break, and/or ultimately define a person's character. IMO. Your cousin only revealed this about herself. I'm sorry for the betrayal you feel. I've been in your place before, and may be again somehow. Accept you missed this aspect of family when you weren't expecting it, and do good by yourself and let it go. These low points in life can drag us pretty deep. Don't let them overpower your life and define you. Sorry if I seem to presume better.


    I think you're right that the elements were always present. I knew my cousin was a bitch, what I didn't know was how far she'd go. That was the shocker. And then looking back on it, even though I knew she was abusive, even though I thought I was trying to help her, I was actually in an abusive relationship. I'd never thought of it like that while I was in it but that's what it was. And i can understand now, a little more, how people wind up there. By thinking, as you say, what a situation is when it is not.

    I appreciate your kind words. I am slowly but surely moving on but I will not stop reminding myself of what she did. It's a burden and letting go always seems the answer but it was my willingness to let go in the past that kept the cycle going because she only took my forgiveness as permission. Of course this will not define me but it does affect me. I deal with it. That's life.
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    Jan 22, 2013 1:12 AM GMT
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    Jan 22, 2013 1:13 AM GMT
    HobokenHobo said"Some People Change"
    And some people don't. Those are usually the ones who really should.
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    Jan 22, 2013 1:14 AM GMT
    I believe in the saying that there is nothing permanent in this world but change. We change our perceptions depending on what the environment is always presenting us. So, your perception may change from time to time and that you are even more understanding if you allow yourself to accept or change.
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    Jan 22, 2013 1:27 AM GMT
    I do think people can change. But most of the time, they don't.
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    Jan 22, 2013 1:28 AM GMT
    Yes
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    Jan 22, 2013 2:56 AM GMT
    You can't change people who does not want to be changed. I hope I do not change as a person because I do like a person who I am now. The more you experience the less the care. It also depends on the type of experiences you get. I think it is also what you were raised with.
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    Jan 22, 2013 3:50 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidChange can also be inevitable



    Something happened at 2:22. His eyes got dark and he aged rather quickly from there.
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    Jan 22, 2013 3:52 AM GMT
    What can change the nature of a man? Only few things can, and they have to be forces powerful enough. Hate, love, hope, remorse, the answer is different for everyone.
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    Jan 22, 2013 3:54 AM GMT
    People can change -- but it often takes a severe shock to get them to do so...and then they change more dramatically than you might have anticipated. However, absent a severe shock, people really don't change significantly.
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    Jan 22, 2013 4:05 AM GMT
    Here is a completely honest answer about me, and my father.
    Short version: At our core, we are still the same, but we do change a little.

    I was always a fun-loving outgoing kid. I've changed a bit, but at my core I'm still fun-loving and outgoing. Life has changed me, but at my core I'm still the same kid. Not as naive, but still the same.

    My father. He is a very kind man. He's very outgoing, and giving. He's friends with everyone. But when he is home with his family, he shows his true nature. He was verbally abusive, selfish, self-centered, arrogant, and pompous. My mother divorced my father when I was young. To be honest, yes he has changed a bit, but so have I. I know how to defend myself. I know how to deal with him. I used to have high hopes he would become a better person for his family, but at his core, he's still the same arrogant, pompous person.

    People do change, sometimes radically, but they need to want to change to be able to change. Other people who don't want to change will always change a little, but at their core they are still the same.
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    Jan 22, 2013 4:54 AM GMT
    I changed a lot in the year or 2 after high school.

    And following that, I went through another sort of rebirth after being a lonely, lovesick wreck and becoming a complete solo and realized celibate person. Hardest but best thing I ever did.

    Both required some pain to make it happen, and a humbling experience. One also has to be open to learning something new.
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    Jan 22, 2013 8:16 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    JR_Lore saidI think the elements were always present in your relationship, but the only change was how the situation was being dealt with. Like right, I'm in deep with my own internal chaos. Someone I liked and respected didn't share the same confidence in me, or lost something in his communication with me here. Albeit, I was in a fantasy in my mind, but nonetheless, I knew what could result. In my mind he's still the same as ever. I've been an ornery pain in the ass lately, but I don't think I changed either. I know this is just another lull in my life. I'd be easy to play the role of whatever, but this Cinderfoot has to save himself if happiness with come ever after.
    Its the painfully difficult times that make, break, and/or ultimately define a person's character. IMO. Your cousin only revealed this about herself. I'm sorry for the betrayal you feel. I've been in your place before, and may be again somehow. Accept you missed this aspect of family when you weren't expecting it, and do good by yourself and let it go. These low points in life can drag us pretty deep. Don't let them overpower your life and define you. Sorry if I seem to presume better.


    I think you're right that the elements were always present. I knew my cousin was a bitch, what I didn't know was how far she'd go. That was the shocker. And then looking back on it, even though I knew she was abusive, even though I thought I was trying to help her, I was actually in an abusive relationship. I'd never thought of it like that while I was in it but that's what it was. And i can understand now, a little more, how people wind up there. By thinking, as you say, what a situation is when it is not.

    I appreciate your kind words. I am slowly but surely moving on but I will not stop reminding myself of what she did. It's a burden and letting go always seems the answer but it was my willingness to let go in the past that kept the cycle going because she only took my forgiveness as permission. Of course this will not define me but it does affect me. I deal with it. That's life.

    It hurts so much more when family hurts us the same way a random stranger would. It couldn't get any more disappointing or heartbreaking. Honesty when confronting her was the best thing to do for yourself and the situation. That is hard for me to do with anyone who takes aims at me. You may be stronger than you know. Sometimes I wish being family meant all having similar ways of thinking about life. But oh well. We can hold our memories as detour signs for ourselves and the next person who should be in a similar situation at least. HUGS.
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    Jan 23, 2013 6:59 AM GMT
    JR_Lore saidIt hurts so much more when family hurts us the same way a random stranger would. It couldn't get any more disappointing or heartbreaking. Honesty when confronting her was the best thing to do for yourself and the situation. That is hard for me to do with anyone who takes aims at me. You may be stronger than you know. Sometimes I wish being family meant all having similar ways of thinking about life. But oh well. We can hold our memories as detour signs for ourselves and the next person who should be in a similar situation at least. HUGS.


    Thanx man. It is tough being betrayed by family though we think of friends as family and they can fuck us up too and even life itself seems to betray sometimes yet we find a way to live that. I think you're way stronger than me. Had I lost my parents as young as you lost yours, I can't imagine myself not being a complete basketcase by now. I've always had a tough time making my way in this world and that was with a lot of family support. Without them I'd have lost it, I know that. So cheers to you man for surviving this so well.

    Relative to many our gay brethren, I got off light. Imagine a kid when their family changes. One minute your loved, you come out as gay and they kick you out of the house? Holy shit. What does that do to a person? It's unbelieveable what people do to each other. But you're right, you know, we just have to remember to be better than that. I just wish life was only happy. I don't care for this sad shit. It seems so unnecessary. Thanks for the hugs. May more happiness be directed towards your life than detours.
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    Jan 23, 2013 8:20 AM GMT
    I don't think people change. They just react to events. They adjust based on information that they receive depending on how much it affected them.

    I see people as computer: there's the hardware (the DNA, the real you) and the software (family friends social environment).

    PCs don't turn into Macs.
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    Jun 28, 2013 9:12 AM GMT
    Postings should never be read out of order. Postings are also so well buried here. And I should have never taken for granted just how fast people can change.

    My god, the things in which people do to themselves. How can people within less than a year, compromise almost every single value and ideal they ever had? Do they know that they kill themselves in their own actions then ever actually killing themselves? For how can anyone ever cope with the loss of themselves and their values? And in light of a few simple facts now, it explains why other things occured the way they did. May the gods help those who commited infractions against themselves and their convictions. I am beyond anybody's ability to absolve them of such things.

    What is done is done. Stupid actions are only reserved for the stupid, as they can't regret much of what they do. My hope is that people who are stupid, do remain stupid, and never have to account for the things that they do to themselves.

    Yes, people change, and in a way not ever appreciated by others or in themselves. And while I remain even-minded by certain revelations, I have but a blank stare now and no thoughts at all. So this is what grief feels like to me?
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    Jun 28, 2013 10:56 AM GMT
    ruandru.jpg
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    Jun 28, 2013 12:59 PM GMT
    TheWind said

    PCs don't turn into Macs.


    Yeah but if you smash your Mac on the ground repeatedly it kind of does turn into a PC











    ArdW6X5CMAIAd4M.jpg:large
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    Jun 28, 2013 1:13 PM GMT
    Sometimes I take a comment from someone very seriously, and turn it into personal change. And sometimes I ignore outside comments.

    One time a person snapped at me that I was the most negative person they knew regarding others, always making snide & catty remarks about others (Gee, I wonder why? - icon_rolleyes.gif ). And that I never had anything complimentary & nice to say about others, and to the people themselves. And that bothered me, I didn't realize the extent to which I was doing that.

    So I decided I needed to change that, and I did. I started complimenting people, and withheld criticism. I realized that I'd been stingy with compliments as if they were money I was taking out of my own pocket, depriving myself. And that's not the case at all - there's an endless supply of compliments in my "pocket" that costs me nothing to give away, and that enhances my own reputation as much as theirs. Valid compliments, of course, since empty praise is worthless and easily revealed as counterfeit currency.

    And oddly enough, the more I forced myself to do that, the easier it came, and the more natural & sincere it became. And along with that came more social acceptance. So that's one example of where I changed myself. (I omit the online community from that, however, a totally different environment where I get to revert to my former evil-tongued self - icon_twisted.gif )
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    Jul 03, 2013 8:04 AM GMT
    Unnamed3 saidPostings should never be read out of order. Postings are also so well buried here. And I should have never taken for granted just how fast people can change.

    My god, the things in which people do to themselves. How can people within less than a year, compromise almost every single value and ideal they ever had? Do they know that they kill themselves in their own actions then ever actually killing themselves? For how can anyone ever cope with the loss of themselves and their values? And in light of a few simple facts now, it explains why other things occured the way they did. May the gods help those who commited infractions against themselves and their convictions. I am beyond anybody's ability to absolve them of such things.

    What is done is done. Stupid actions are only reserved for the stupid, as they can't regret much of what they do. My hope is that people who are stupid, do remain stupid, and never have to account for the things that they do to themselves.

    Yes, people change, and in a way not ever appreciated by others or in themselves. And while I remain even-minded by certain revelations, I have but a blank stare now and no thoughts at all. So this is what grief feels like to me?


    Still grieving, and as much as a person who doesn't cry can...

    If only I had made the effort to post as soon as May or June 2011 to a few postings that I came across by someone... The force of my mind, my attention, my capacity for judgment, and my affection for him would have prevented so many things. Bad and stupid friends would never be made, actions would never be taken, a closet would remain closed until things were properly understood, slippery slopes never slid, an absurd paraphilia masquerading as sexuality would be questioned, and a precious mind would have been restored.

    ...I could have provided him purpose, meaning, further support for his convictions, sleep!, psychological insulation from his parents, a wife (or a transman who he can have children with, but that's assuming if he was ever a top and into guys still), one life time sexual partner at that too! (and I would bless that relationship), an education, a job, and of course my friendship!

    And to whatever he has done to himself now and will do in the future...and if his mind reawakens...may the gods help him cope with those things!
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    Aug 01, 2013 7:59 AM GMT
    I find teenagers constantly changing and their values aren't always set