Shaming fat people into losing weight is the only way to solve obesity epidemic, leading health academic claims

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 27, 2013 12:09 AM GMT
    I love donuts. icon_razz.gif
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:16 AM GMT
    if this technique worked, then my public shaming of you of for being an illogical goon would have forced you to take even a modicum of reflection before posting such noxious links. clearly, this approach is not working.
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:28 AM GMT
    Bromoflexual saidAs a formerly obese person, I can say that shame is a double-edge sword. It was (partly) due shame that I decided to get into better shape. I was not happy with who I was physically, and society made it clear that because I was fat, that meant I was unattractive and lazy - an outward projection of impotence and character flaws.

    However, it was also shame that stopped me from actually getting off my ass and exercising for so long. Being ashamed of my body meant that I was afraid to be seen in public at length. A fat person in and of themselves can sometimes be considered a spectacle; but a fat person trying to exercise? ....someone bring the popcorn so we can all laugh at the fatass suffering! (Ever wonder why The Biggest Loser is such a successful show?) I was so ashamed of myself that I resorted to waiting until after dark or before dawn to go out and exercise.

    This guy is full of shit. There's plenty of shame and stigma forced onto obese people already.


    Former obese here too, and totally agree. I had so much shame, shunning, from society that I came to expect it. None of it changed me, and I was too convinced that I could never change that it was years and years before I started. The Biggest Loser was so demoralizing that I could not watch it.

    I changed because I hit bottom just like any addict. The change and the guts to take those steps came from INSIDE me, not from anything anyone outside me ever did. Hell, if I had continued to listen to those in society, I would still be 400 lbs, or dead by now. I lost 180 lbs in my house on my own cardio equip just because I was so scared of those in the gym making me into a spectacle.

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    Jan 27, 2013 12:28 AM GMT
    That's like calling a student stupid or dumb to "motivate" him/her to study...
    Where in the world does this successfully happens? icon_confused.gif
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:30 AM GMT
    calibro saidif this technique worked, then my public shaming of you of for being an illogical goon would have forced you to take even a modicum of reflection before posting such noxious links. clearly, this approach is not working.


    The King of Acridity!
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:37 AM GMT
    Actually folks, shaming / shunning is a tool that is often used as a psychological weapon. Religions / cults / false belief systems are the biggest practitioners of this societal exclusion.

    The thing is, that, like torture, it really doesn't work reliably.

    Off topic: they had a guy on CNN last night, oh, around 20 years old who was behind help in a camp for torturing blasphemous folks, and ... he was smiling about it. Young AND dumb AND religious is horribly dangerous thing.

    We have to make taking care of yourself, not just easier, but...part of popular culture, but, changing that culture is no small task.

    Where I live (Austin Ranch) is a 6,600 unit complex. Most folks that live here are "pretty people" and make lots of money. Somehow, we need to intervene early, when that kid is 8...before he becomes the 12 year old fat ass. Some schools now have obesity programs, and, of course, fat folks have squawked.

    Like I said, that starts with access to qualified health care, for EVERYONE.
  • seafrontbloke

    Posts: 300

    Jan 27, 2013 12:37 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    Timbales said
    seafrontbloke saidMaybe industrial foodstuffs like HFCS are part of the problem.


    Agreed. If chemicals and unnatural things weren't being sold as food, things everyone would be a lot healthier.


    That's not true.

    Folks who are overweight consume more calories than they expend.

    If you want to gain weight, you eat more calories than you burn.

    If you want to lose weight, you eat fewer calories than you burn.

    Processed food often has too much sodium; too much fat. Fast food literally is a killer, but, not all chemicals in the food are bad. Preservatives keep our food safe, lower food waste, and lower costs, for example.


    I believe there is some research indicating that sugars, in particular HFCS, affect the way that Leptin works. If you muck about with a person's appetite, by food additives, you can't then blame them for gaining weight.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2584858/
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Jan 27, 2013 12:38 AM GMT
    Out of curiosity, for those slamming this, what's your alternative? I don't like this either, but pretty much everything has been tried barring the outright bad of unhealthy food. This is the largest drain on Medicare. Something does need to be done.
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:40 AM GMT
    rugbyjockca saidIf that's the only way to eliminate the epidemic, then let's keep the epidemic and start focusing on eliminating the assholes.


    +1
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:41 AM GMT
    High fructose corn syrup is a fast sugar, and bounces insulin, but, not that much differently from sucrose (table sugar). It's the excess calories that make a person overweight, at the end of the day.

    When a person looks in the mirror and sees lard, they are obligated to take action / change their lifestyle.

    Food marketers market what folks buy. If folks stopped buying Big Mac's, McDonald's would market another "product."

    Thing like the Big Mac appeal to our primal being: salt, sugar, fat, calories, satiety, and they are mass produced, so folks take their pudgy fingers and wolf them down, but, ULTIMATELY, we each are responsible for what we put in our mouths.

    Changing the culture around food, of too much of the wrong thing at the wrong times is no small task.

    Shaming isn't the answer, but, it needs to become uncool to be a lard ass. It's creating a health care pandemic.

    Smoking trends are an example how society CAN be changed. We have to take action.
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:42 AM GMT
    chuckystud saidWhere I live (Austin Ranch) is a 6,600 unit complex. Most folks that live here are "pretty people" and make lots of money. Somehow, we need to intervene early, when that kid is 8...before he becomes the 12 year old fat ass. Some schools now have obesity programs, and, of course, fat folks have squawked.


    Wish I had had something like that when I got fat at age 7. Only took 24 years to come to my senses without it. Every fat person that squawks about it I would challenge to talk to me. I refuse to die so they can "feel good" about killing themselves. I drank that kool-aid long enough.
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:43 AM GMT
    Medjai saidOut of curiosity, for those slamming this, what's your alternative? I don't like this either, but pretty much everything has been tried barring the outright bad of unhealthy food. This is the largest drain on Medicare. Something does need to be done.


    Have the government give tax breaks based on health.... money motivates people icon_lol.gif
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:46 AM GMT
    Medjai saidOut of curiosity, for those slamming this, what's your alternative? I don't like this either, but pretty much everything has been tried barring the outright bad of unhealthy food. This is the largest drain on Medicare. Something does need to be done.


    No offense intended, but our society does shame fat people, especially gay society. What has it changed? Nothing. Could shaming gay fat bears make them change? I seriously doubt it. Will it change fat lesbians into "lipstick lesbians?" Even less chance.
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:46 AM GMT
    COGymGuy said
    chuckystud saidWhere I live (Austin Ranch) is a 6,600 unit complex. Most folks that live here are "pretty people" and make lots of money. Somehow, we need to intervene early, when that kid is 8...before he becomes the 12 year old fat ass. Some schools now have obesity programs, and, of course, fat folks have squawked.


    Wish I had had something like that when I got fat at age 7. Only took 24 years to come to my senses without it. Every fat person that squawks about it I would challenge to talk to me. I refuse to die so they can "feel good" about killing themselves. I drank that kool-aid long enough.


    Yeah, there's a fine line between a young person's freedom to chow, and intervention. Ideally, that intervention should be made by the parents, but, so often, the parents are the biggest enablers. E.g. "World's Largest Boy" in Houston. Mom just kept feeding him even though he was barely ambulatory. From here, that looks like child abuse.
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:48 AM GMT
    COGymGuy said
    Medjai saidOut of curiosity, for those slamming this, what's your alternative? I don't like this either, but pretty much everything has been tried barring the outright bad of unhealthy food. This is the largest drain on Medicare. Something does need to be done.


    No offense intended, but our society does shame fat people, especially gay society. What has it changed? Nothing. Could shaming gay fat bears make them change? I seriously doubt it. Will it change fat lesbians into "lipstick lesbians?" Even less chance.


    That...is truth.

    Some folks don't give a shit.

    I went to The Texas Bear Convention. A friend gave me tickets. It was quite a sight to see all this really overweight dudes with their shirts off dancing.
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:49 AM GMT
    S34n05 said
    Medjai saidOut of curiosity, for those slamming this, what's your alternative? I don't like this either, but pretty much everything has been tried barring the outright bad of unhealthy food. This is the largest drain on Medicare. Something does need to be done.


    Have the government give tax breaks based on health.... money motivates people icon_lol.gif


    The tax code is way too much of a mess. Bad idea. Plus, the tax code doesn't affect those folks most needing help: the poor; the illiterate.

    We need to get rid of the tax code.
  • AllAmericanJo...

    Posts: 4271

    Jan 27, 2013 12:49 AM GMT
    Better idea: can we instead shame right-wing nuts like riddler into crawling back into their holes and never speaking again so that Republicans and conservatives can start acting like intelligent adults again?
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:50 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    COGymGuy said
    chuckystud saidWhere I live (Austin Ranch) is a 6,600 unit complex. Most folks that live here are "pretty people" and make lots of money. Somehow, we need to intervene early, when that kid is 8...before he becomes the 12 year old fat ass. Some schools now have obesity programs, and, of course, fat folks have squawked.


    Wish I had had something like that when I got fat at age 7. Only took 24 years to come to my senses without it. Every fat person that squawks about it I would challenge to talk to me. I refuse to die so they can "feel good" about killing themselves. I drank that kool-aid long enough.


    Yeah, there's a fine line between a young person's freedom to chow, and intervention. Ideally, that intervention should be made by the parents, by, so often, the parents are the biggest enablers. E.g. "World's Largest Boy" in Houston. Mom just kept feeding him even though he was barely ambulatory. From here, that looks like child abuse.


    My mother is 5'4", and over 300 lbs. I watched her take an insulin injection so she could eat frosting from a can (srs). Last time I saw her after my weight loss, she just assumed I was using meth "like all gays do." My parents would have never made the intervention, so something like that would have been my only chance.
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:54 AM GMT
    COGymGuy said
    chuckystud said
    COGymGuy said
    chuckystud saidWhere I live (Austin Ranch) is a 6,600 unit complex. Most folks that live here are "pretty people" and make lots of money. Somehow, we need to intervene early, when that kid is 8...before he becomes the 12 year old fat ass. Some schools now have obesity programs, and, of course, fat folks have squawked.


    Wish I had had something like that when I got fat at age 7. Only took 24 years to come to my senses without it. Every fat person that squawks about it I would challenge to talk to me. I refuse to die so they can "feel good" about killing themselves. I drank that kool-aid long enough.


    Yeah, there's a fine line between a young person's freedom to chow, and intervention. Ideally, that intervention should be made by the parents, by, so often, the parents are the biggest enablers. E.g. "World's Largest Boy" in Houston. Mom just kept feeding him even though he was barely ambulatory. From here, that looks like child abuse.


    My mother is 5'4", and over 300 lbs. I watched her take an insulin injection so she could eat frosting from a can (srs). Last time I saw her after my weight loss, she just assumed I was using meth "like all gays do." My parents would have never made the intervention, so something like that would have been my only chance.


    I have a guy who works on my old truck, Mike. Mike is a type 2 diabetic who refuses to exercise. Logan and I gave him insulin, which he refused to take. He walks around with his blood sugar at 400. Mike had two toes cut off about three years ago. I saw Mike a couple of month's ago, still smoking, still drinking, still not exercising, still refusing to take his insulin, minus 3 more tows (all on his right foot), and with a staph infection in his foot (he was about to lose his foot, too). Mike is my age, and REFUSES to change his life style and has actually scolded me for mine. Off with the foot he goes. It's very...well...frustrating...sad..
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    Jan 27, 2013 12:58 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    COGymGuy said
    chuckystud said
    COGymGuy said
    chuckystud saidWhere I live (Austin Ranch) is a 6,600 unit complex. Most folks that live here are "pretty people" and make lots of money. Somehow, we need to intervene early, when that kid is 8...before he becomes the 12 year old fat ass. Some schools now have obesity programs, and, of course, fat folks have squawked.


    Wish I had had something like that when I got fat at age 7. Only took 24 years to come to my senses without it. Every fat person that squawks about it I would challenge to talk to me. I refuse to die so they can "feel good" about killing themselves. I drank that kool-aid long enough.


    Yeah, there's a fine line between a young person's freedom to chow, and intervention. Ideally, that intervention should be made by the parents, by, so often, the parents are the biggest enablers. E.g. "World's Largest Boy" in Houston. Mom just kept feeding him even though he was barely ambulatory. From here, that looks like child abuse.


    My mother is 5'4", and over 300 lbs. I watched her take an insulin injection so she could eat frosting from a can (srs). Last time I saw her after my weight loss, she just assumed I was using meth "like all gays do." My parents would have never made the intervention, so something like that would have been my only chance.


    I have a guy who works on my old truck, Mike. Mike is a type 2 diabetic who refuses to exercise. Logan and I gave him insulin, which he refused to take. He walks around with his blood sugar at 400. Mike had two toes cut off about three years ago. I saw Mike a couple of month's ago, still smoking, still drinking, still not exercising, still refusing to take his insulin, minus 3 more tows (all on his right foot), and with a staph infection in his foot (he was about to lose his foot, too). Mike is my age, and REFUSES to change his life style and has actually scolded me for mine. Off with the foot he goes. It's very...well...frustrating...sad..


    Just like my mother with her advanced diabetic neuropathy, lost both legs at the knees, spiking BP over 300 systolic. But, I am living horribly according to her. Frustrating and sad. Whether she accepts me or not (and she does not as we were a Mormon family), she could have chosen health, but totally refused. So, she will go to her grave with the frosting spoon in her mouth. Because she does not care.
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    Jan 27, 2013 1:00 AM GMT
    The fact is you cant shame people into it. It happens when people want to make the change themselves and for no other reason. My mother was once a personal trainer and now she weighs over 260 pounds. She can barley walk, breathe, and sleep. All she does is complain about her weight.

    I have yelled at her, bought her diet pills, make health dinners and lunches. Hell I even bought her a recumbent bike that I put in her room. She never uses it. Today she was going to go take my dog for a walk and said she couldn't take her because my dads car is too "nice" for the dog. I offered her my car and she said no and decided to make a frozen pizza. I literally yelled at her for 10 mins on how she is killing herself. And that she is depressed only because she is overweight..She then proceeds to yell back at me saying "My knees hurt I don't want to walk." Well of course they hurt you are morbidly obese. My dad even told her to get her stomach stapled because she was looking into it. Now she doesn't want to do it because she will have to take time off of work even though she had 6 weeks paid vacation....

    There really isn't anything you can do....when a person WANTS to get healthy and fit, they will.
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    Jan 27, 2013 1:45 AM GMT
    I don't really care how we end obesity as long as they don't keep fucking up our food. Seriously have you measured a fruit rollup lately? Next they'll be telling Wendy's to stop coating everything in butter. Sweet, delicious butter icon_mad.gif
  • Jerebear

    Posts: 329

    Jan 27, 2013 1:46 AM GMT
    Here's the thing to understand about shame and fat people: shame = escapism = intensifying self-destructive behaviors. Its a bad plan.
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    Jan 27, 2013 1:51 AM GMT
    Excuse me while I step up on to the soap box.

    As a formerly obese person (42%BF) who has graduated down to "overweight" (23%BF), I can honestly say that "education" is not the answer.

    Anyone who believes that the majority of fat people don't know they are fat, or that they don't know the difference between healthy and unhealthy foods (or portion size) is deluding themselves.

    My situation is merely anecdotal, but consider it for what it's worth.

    I've struggled with weight since 3rd grade when I went from being a skinny child to obese in a matter of months. To this day, I don't know what triggered the change and perhaps I'll never know.

    My attempts to lose weight over the years met with varying degrees of success, but often resulted in failure because of yo-yo dieting's rebound effect.

    The most successful approach involved consistent exercise, high-protein and lower carb diet in the 1990s. At that time I exercised because I enjoyed it.

    My return to the obese state involved full-time work (70 hour weeks), part-time study (an MBA) coupled with zero exercise and eating out (my husband wouldn't go to the gym with me, and I chose to be with him instead of exercising, despite the fact that he was "naturally skinny"). Over a three-year period I put on 60lbs of fat.

    But why did I let it happen? In a nutshell because I didn't care enough. I had goals which were pre-eminent in my mind: advance in my career, excel at the MBA, spend time with my husband.

    I did these things, but I was also in bad shape by the end.

    A few of years ago I decided I wanted to follow up on my teenage desire to ride motorcycles. It required me to be "in shape" because controlling the bike is a physical task best handled by a strong rider.

    Once I knew what I wanted, to be an in-shape biker, the rest was simple. I started exercising again; I started making better choices in my food (both quality and quantity); I started eating more at home.

    There are consequences: my husband HATES the gym and everything to do with organized exercise - I love the gym, the ambiance, and if you want me to do cardio, there has to be other "suckers" doing it with me. It means that he's not part of my exercise life. It upsets him, but he acknowledges the results and doesn't want me to forgo that part of my life ever again.

    Obese people didn't get that way over night. And they certainly had "reasons" for becoming that way. A genetic predisposition towards adipose storage DOES NOT make someone obese. Consuming more calories than expended by metabolism over a protracted period of time makes someone obese.

    The choices which lead to this caloric imbalance have manifold influences and should not be whitewashed into a generalization (obese people are lazy) nor should it be excused (they couldn't help themselves).

    The sad fact is that the vast majority of obese people CAN help themselves, but they don't WANT to. They may WISH or DESIRE a change (à la 30-minute infomercial). To WANT something is to have a goal and to work towards it.

    If we as a society want to address the obesity epidemic, we need to address the underlying malaise with each individual that prevents him/her from setting and aggressively pursuing the goal of fitness (which includes fat loss).

    Again, I cannot stress enough, it is not about education. It is about helping people choose goals (ones that ideally require fitness) and then supporting people in attaining these goals. And support means helping them recognize and ditch the behaviours which don't help them.

    Obesity (which is a state of being, not a behaviour) is a symptom of unhealthy choices (behaviour), made consistently over a long period of time (habit). The solution must involve making healthy choices over a significantly long period of time.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13999

    Jan 27, 2013 2:17 AM GMT
    In my opinion, chemicals, additives and chemically modified foods change the way our bodies respond to and metabolize food. Studies have show HFCS does not trigger our normal body's response to sweets, telling it it's been satisfied.

    I also firmly believe that food issues are addiction issues for many people - both psychological and chemical. For practically every other addiction, the treatment is to stop doing it. You can't do that with food.

    I think you also have to factor in what role food plays in our culture. It's part of socializing and celebrating. Right now people are gearing up for the Superbowl, and all I'm hearing at work is what food they are going to have.