What is the source of homosexuality?

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    Feb 22, 2013 2:26 AM GMT
    I think our sexuality is permanent from the time we are born and it's there no matter what happens to you. You can call me as crazy as you want but I know we choose our bodies, families and sexuality from before we are ever conceived. That's why I think it's ridiculous for an experience with the same sex to make someone "turn" or become gay lol.
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    Feb 22, 2013 2:29 AM GMT
    Har19 said
    Too much of - ve ions in the air.


    mmspic027.jpg

    anyway there is connection to MikeW thread...Why are Gay men Gay?


    LOL nepphie, I've always loved this image. icon_cool.gif
  • MidwesternKid

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    Feb 22, 2013 2:54 AM GMT
    Feel free to disagree with me if you wish, but I feel it is due to the need have a form of male approval and guidance that we weren't getting at a younger age.
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    Feb 22, 2013 3:47 AM GMT
    MidwesternKid saidFeel free to disagree with me if you wish, but I feel it is due to the need have a form of male approval and guidance that we weren't getting at a younger age.
    Except science shows your brain develops your orientation before you're born and able to seek out male approval.
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    Feb 23, 2013 12:42 PM GMT
    tyklong said

    Thank u, very enlighting words. Indeed, i feel so much more happy to be openly gay. But at times i can feel the pain in the eyes of my parents, and i know they are blaming themselves for this, i just want a story or an evidence to let their minds free from such thoughts so i keep searching for proofs that this is no one's fault. My parents are conservative asian parents so it's kinda rough.


    You are most welcome, tyklong.

    Just as your parents can not live your life for you, you can not live theirs for them. That may seem to run counter filial piety but is living a lie respect for your ancestors? If you learned a better way to farm would you let your father's crops die simply because this is how he always worked the fields? Don't starve yourself. Be yourself and let your parents see how happy that makes you.

    Show them the science. Our natural validity is irrefutable. I don't know the background of your parents but I'm going to guess by your location that they connect to Tao? Whether in the animal kingdom or in plants, being gay and bisexual and transgender and transsexual runs rampant throughout all nature.

    http://ucavo.ucr.edu/Flowering/RemarkableFlower.html
    ...The flower has both female and male organs, but they don't function at the same time...The first or female stage remains open for only 2 or 3 hours. The flower then closes and remains closed the rest of the day and that night. The following day it opens again. But now the stigma will no longer receive pollen. Instead, the flower is now shedding pollen. That is, each flower is female at its first opening, male at its second.

    http://www.coralscience.org/main/articles/development-5/fish-sex-change
    Did you know that many marine fish species can change sex when needed? Scientists found that the species P. flavivertex, P. aldabraensis and P. cyanotaenia can change sex in a single sex environment....This basically means that when 2 females are placed together, one becomes male (or the other way around). When an individual changes from male to female, we call this protandry. When it changes from female to male, it is called protogyny.

    When you look at nature, when you live by the Tao, gay is natural, be it in our physical selves, in our behavior or in our consciousness. It is the denial of human nature by flawed men in their religions and cultures which is the abomination. Not us.
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    Feb 23, 2013 1:00 PM GMT
    All of the research is not focused specifically on sexual orientation, because identifying yourself as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender is a social label, not a scientific one. So science focuses on things like abnormalities, maculinization, feminization of the brain, etc.,

    Even this epi-marker theory is suggesting the same thing that other scientific research does, that something went wrong that makes people gay.

    Being gay is much more than just showing if you give rats testosterone they mount things more or that women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (excess testosterone) are aggressive and rough.

    We as scientists are asking the wrong questions in regards to sexual orientation, and I do not know that there is a right one to ask currently.
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    Feb 23, 2013 2:03 PM GMT
    Medjai saidHasn't this thread already been done 48455733675 times? snowflakes


    fixed
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    Feb 23, 2013 2:05 PM GMT
    Adam228 saidAll of the research is not focused specifically on sexual orientation, because identifying yourself as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender is a social label, not a scientific one. So science focuses on things like abnormalities, maculinization, feminization of the brain, etc.,

    Even this epi-marker theory is suggesting the same thing that other scientific research does, that something went wrong that makes people gay.

    Being gay is much more than just showing if you give rats testosterone they mount things more or that women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (excess testosterone) are aggressive and rough.

    We as scientists are asking the wrong questions in regards to sexual orientation, and I do not know that there is a right one to ask currently.

    I see an analogy with hand dominance - what makes a minority of humans left-handed, in which something also went "wrong" according to the minds of some people. There was a time when left-handed children had their arms strapped down, forcing them to use only their right hands and arms, to compel them to become right-handed. Reminds me of today's gay reparative therapy, as practiced by quacks like Michele Bachmann's husband Marcus.

    The French word for left (gauche) also can mean something that is unsophisticated and awkward. Our English word "sinister" likewise comes from the Latin word for left, while "dexterity" comes from Latin meaning the right side. One hand is as good as the other, but society assigned arbitrary expectations and values to hand dominance. Is one wrong and the other..."right"?

    So that sexual orientation is also a social construct in that sense, of arbitrary right and wrong, at least in the way it can be perceived. I'm not sure most scientists in this field would see gay as "wrong" but rather as a more benign variation, and want to study what Nature's intent is, if any, and the mechanism. Like red hair in a minority of the population, or uncommon eye colors.

    But humans have a habit of singling out the exceptional, and calling those persons either gifted or defective. I for one consider my gayness a gift, not a defect in any way, nothing wrong about it at all.
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    Feb 23, 2013 2:10 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidThe Ganges river.


    Ah you're on fire tnight x
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    Feb 23, 2013 2:11 PM GMT
    69
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    Feb 23, 2013 2:16 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    Adam228 saidAll of the research is not focused specifically on sexual orientation, because identifying yourself as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender is a social label, not a scientific one. So science focuses on things like abnormalities, maculinization, feminization of the brain, etc.,

    Even this epi-marker theory is suggesting the same thing that other scientific research does, that something went wrong that makes people gay.

    Being gay is much more than just showing if you give rats testosterone they mount things more or that women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (excess testosterone) are aggressive and rough.

    We as scientists are asking the wrong questions in regards to sexual orientation, and I do not know that there is a right one to ask currently.

    I see an analogy with hand dominance - what makes a minority of humans left-handed, in which something also went "wrong" according to the minds of some people. There was a time when left-handed children had their arms strapped down, forcing them to use only their right hands and arms, to compel them to become right-handed. Reminds me of today's gay reparative therapy, as practiced by quacks like Michele Bachmann's husband Marcus.

    The French word for left (gauche) also can mean something that is unsophisticated and awkward. Our English word "sinister" likewise comes from the Latin word for left, while "dexterity" comes from Latin meaning the right side. One hand is as good as the other, but society assigned arbitrary expectations and values to hand dominance. Is one wrong and the other..."right"?

    So that sexual orientation is also a social construct in that sense, of arbitrary right and wrong, at least in the way it can be perceived. I'm not sure most scientists in this field would see gay as "wrong" but rather as a more benign variation, and want to study what Nature's intent is, if any, and the mechanism. Like red hair in a minority of the population, or uncommon eye colors.

    But humans have a habit of singling out the exceptional, and calling those persons either gifted or defective. I for one consider my gayness a gift, not a defect in any way, nothing wrong about it at all.


    What you say is very accurate. In French, "right" (opposed to left) is said "droit", which also means "straight". And "straight" in English means "heterosexual". What a surprise! haha.

    For the subject of the thread, I am convinced there are many ways of being gay. I know people who were straight and turned gay, or were gay and turned straight. A lot of scientists say that it is maybe wrong to divide sexuality in gay, straight and bisexual. There is only one human sexuality, with two poles (the 2 different sex), and most of the people tend to be more or less close to one of the poles, generally the opposite sex. But it can change during life for many many possible reasons.
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    Feb 23, 2013 2:40 PM GMT
    ART_DECO saidWhat is the source of homosexuality?

    Heterosexual parents.


    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
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    Feb 23, 2013 2:49 PM GMT
    Isugemi said
    For the subject of the thread, I am convinced there are many ways of being gay. I know people who were straight and turned gay, or were gay and turned straight. A lot of scientists say that it is maybe wrong to divide sexuality in gay, straight and bisexual. There is only one human sexuality, with two poles (the 2 different sex), and most of the people tend to be more or less close to one of the poles, generally the opposite sex. But it can change during life for many many possible reasons.

    I don't believe the underlying sexual orientation changes, but rather our recognition & acceptance of it in ourselves. Fortunately many gay men are now coming out at very early ages, essentially concurrent with the development of their sexual maturity in puberty, the same time straight guys "discover" girls.

    But it also means that many of them can't understand how men of my generation could have been delayed for so long in coming out, as I was. Well, that's a good development, I'm glad guys are coming out earlier, though sometimes I get annoyed when I get challenged on it by younger guys who didn't live through what we did.

    In my case it was caused by the disconnect between my feelings and the gay stereotypes of the 1950s & 60s. I knew from even my pre-teen years that men thrilled me, whereas women did not. But as I began to learn that there were "sissies" who weren't real men, and men who wore women's' clothing and wanted to be like them, spoke with a lisp and minced around, I knew that wasn't describing me.

    Therefore, I could not be gay, because I believed that "girly" behavior was essential to the term. If I liked men it must be something else I was feeling, some other reaction, but definitely not gay, or queer, fag or homo.

    Being "un-gay" in my behavior (or so I imagined myself, though I was partly wrong on that count, too) was my internal defense mechanism against any thoughts that I might be gay. Added to that was the DESIRE not to be gay, at a time when gay wasn't merely despised by society, but actually criminal & illegal in many parts of the US.

    So that I never "turned" gay, I was always gay. What I finally did was recognize it, accept it, and come out to the world. But I was never closeted, which means I knew I was gay but hid it. I didn't hide being gay for so much as a single day once the belated revelation finally came to me.

    I also favor the Kinsey scale of sexuality. With straight at one extreme end, gay at the other, bisexual in the center, and an infinite range of possible blends in between. I do think we can drift a little on that scale, I suspect mostly due to fluctuations in our hormone balance, but we don't change our basic orientation. As I said, we can merely change our recognition & acceptance of what we already are, which we and others may perceive as a change of orientation, but really isn't.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 24066

    Feb 23, 2013 2:57 PM GMT
    I can only speak for myself, but I personally blame Doris Day...




    In all seriousness, I don't think it's actually been proven if gay is the result of NATURE or NURTURE....though it's been endlessly debated. I've always sort of believed it was a combination of the two.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Feb 23, 2013 3:00 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    CuriousJockAZ saidIn all seriousness, I don't think it's actually been proven if gay is the result of NATURE or NURTURE....though it's been endlessly debated. I've always sort of believed it was a combination of the two.

    I believe that's in line with the current scientific thinking.



    You mean MY thinking is in line with "current scientific thinking"? Wow, pigs really DO fly icon_lol.gif
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    Feb 23, 2013 3:03 PM GMT
    you get it from the unfulfilled desires of your father, conscious or unconscious
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    Feb 23, 2013 3:07 PM GMT
    Every species has homosexuality exhibited. Remember the gay penguins at the Cleveland Zoo a couple years ago. Penguins are monogamous and they had a couple that had been together for over seven years with no offspring. When they put out the press release other zoos started putting in their stories of gay tigers, elephants, etc.

    The question often comes up, "What makes someone gay?" Ever notice that no one asks, "Why are you straight?" If the answer is, "Because that is normal." I'd say the same thing. Being gay IS normal. It's just not for everyone.
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    Feb 23, 2013 3:08 PM GMT
    It was the talking snake.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Feb 23, 2013 3:12 PM GMT
    Fiyero27 saidExcept science shows your brain develops your orientation before you're born



    I don't think this has actually been proven to be true beyond a reasonable doubt. "Science" can attempt to get us to believe anything. I'm not saying it is necessarily false, just merely pointing out that there is also likely "scientific evidence" that refutes this.
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    Feb 23, 2013 3:13 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Fiyero27 saidExcept science shows your brain develops your orientation before you're born



    I don't think this has actually been proven to be true beyond a reasonable doubt. "Science" can attempt to get us to believe anything. I'm not saying it is necessarily false, just merely pointing out that there is also likely "scientific evidence" that refutes this.


    Whereas 'religion' can attempt to get us to do anything.
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    Feb 23, 2013 3:16 PM GMT
    I was straight before tumblr...

    tumblr lbhwio U5 XZ1qbo6lto1 500
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    Feb 23, 2013 3:19 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    CuriousJockAZ saidIn all seriousness, I don't think it's actually been proven if gay is the result of NATURE or NURTURE....though it's been endlessly debated. I've always sort of believed it was a combination of the two.

    I believe that's in line with the current scientific thinking.

    I dislike the term Nature or Nurture, which I think wins adherents more from its alliteration than from fact. It implies that orientation can be groomed in us during childhood, like the way we boys were told to "train" our hair so it would look like the adult conventions when we grew up.

    I would instead propose Nature and Environment, which doesn't sound half so clever. We are born with our sexuality predetermined. Whether this is created genetically or in utero (the mother's hormones and other factors in the womb during gestation) remains a mystery, but sexuality at birth already has been determined.

    The variable is environment. Do family and society in general allow our gay orientation to flourish, or is it suppressed? When I was young it was suppressed, portrayed as a criminal depravity. Who would want to admit to that, or associate themselves with it?

    Today young people can see successful gay role models all around them, hear pro-gay songs, watch gay-themed TV shows & movies. That's a more friendly environment that would allow a young LGBT to discover themselves earlier, with less guilt & fear than we had previously in the US.

    You can't nurture gay youth in the sense of forcing their hair to part in a certain way, but you can provide a supportive and uncritical atmosphere that allows their natural sexuality to blossom, whether its gay or straight. Or, conversely, to have their sexuality stunted and hidden away like an evil secret. And that's where any difference between how we are born and how we turn out comes to be.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Feb 23, 2013 3:26 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    I would instead propose Nature and Environment, which doesn't sound half so clever. We are born with our sexuality predetermined.


    I'm not sure I can agree with our "sexuality being predetermined". It's certainly a possibility, but one that has not been proven. It seems just as likely that humans are born with a "gay gene" and "straight" gene, and then environment and life experiences in our early stages pull us in one direction or the other in terms of a sexual orientation that feels natural for that individual.
  • Havenjock80

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    Feb 23, 2013 3:34 PM GMT
    Natures way of balancing its creations....

    Dont fight it! why are there all these colors in the world... Not sure...

    Things keep evolving by the minute... Its part of evolution - If we weren't gay. I d have to ask how come, there arent any gay people.

  • Havenjock80

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    Feb 23, 2013 3:35 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    ART_DECO said
    I would instead propose Nature and Environment, which doesn't sound half so clever. We are born with our sexuality predetermined.


    I'm not sure I can agree with our "sexuality being predetermined". It's certainly a possibility, but one that has not been proven. It seems just as likely that humans are born with a "gay gene" and "straight" gene, and then environment and life experiences in our early stages pull us in one direction or the other in terms of a sexual orientation that feels natural for that individual.


    I like this answer too.... We are all gay..LOL Like we are all born female...