Id like to see people's reaction to this video...either a person who eats meat and those that don't...

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    Sep 12, 2007 8:43 PM GMT
    Aero

    xoxo

    Slayer
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    Sep 12, 2007 9:24 PM GMT
    Slayer perhaps if you stopped making stuff up to support your argument. ie we can not eat meat due to bacteria.

    That is simply unfounded, certain civilisations have moved away from eating raw meat, altho there are numerous dishes that are exception to this rule in most countries, however it is not that we have evolved its more that we no longer have built up an immunity to this bacteria. However as with anything it can be reintroduced should you so wish. Our modern views on bacteria elmination and the introduction of pasterisation of milk are also partlt responsible

    As with all bacteria people have relative degrees of reaction to it from none to severe.

    In the past we introduced items in to our diet for those on the moderate scale of reaction for example pork even when cooked was seen to have a higher degree of salmonella mainly due to housekeeping issues. Nowadays we eat it with apple sauce. However the traditional sauce was apple and cinnamon. The reason being that certain compounds within the apple and the cinnamon manage to destroy the salmonella and other bacteria

  • fryblock

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    Sep 12, 2007 9:33 PM GMT
    sorry slayer, but he is right. i am addicted to foodnetwork and on iron chef i have seen on more than one occasion a strip of raw meat served over something else. i forgot what it's called.

    hate to disagree with you!
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    Sep 12, 2007 9:34 PM GMT
    Slayer, not to play sides on this one, but your comment on "no one said 'change your mind' but to discuss the reaction to the video...thanks though for bringing us down memory lane)." i am sorry, but it clearly states at the end of the video that we should change to vegetarianism, to make our environment better, and to make the animals better, and to make us better.
    i do my part for the environment, i change lives, i get myself out there and i work to make the world better. i honestly dont think that by making everyone turn to vegetarianism will effect the environment as much.
    plus what happens when nature changes and decides to make climates different, you would then have to go to fruits and veggies that are more scientific then natural.
    i am not trying to take sides, i do find some vegetarian foods to taste better, but i eat a balance there are foods i dont eat and i am fine, i avoid many forms of sea food, i have done that since high school.


    oh and tjwdraws, again you failed to say anything different then what your original comment was, that all vegans and vegetarians and those on their way to becoming, are peace loving creatures. i would like to know why you feel this to be true, does meat make people more agressive. i will say i take great offence to your posting of that, there are more ways to declare someone peaceful.
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    Sep 12, 2007 9:37 PM GMT
    the video says that, not me, I said watch it and react not watch it, see what they want you to do and do it :)

    sorry

    xoxo
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    Sep 12, 2007 9:38 PM GMT
    okay, I stand corrected...but on the rest of the stuff...well, least I was right about that :)
  • fryblock

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    Sep 12, 2007 9:39 PM GMT
    hehe true. although i see even less appeal in eating raw meat than i do eating it cooked.
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    Sep 12, 2007 9:40 PM GMT
    roman there is so much evidence to how factory farming is the number one cause of global warming...there is no denying that fact.

    but I am done defending myself and my beliefs to an internet website that I don't think twice about when I'm not logged in.


    Sorry, i just don't really take this as seriously as some, I did (for some things), until those certain people showed me it's all just a big joke.

    thank them, no one else :)
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    Sep 12, 2007 9:53 PM GMT
    what you need to do is rearch my friend and stop spouting out the message of everyone elses agenda, it stops making you look stupid and stating things like factory farming is the number one cause of global warming which is also utter garbage.

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    Sep 12, 2007 9:54 PM GMT
    and I need to pause before post and learn to spell! That should have said

    research
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    Sep 12, 2007 9:57 PM GMT
    factory farming is not even a fractional impact when compaired to the growing and associated with out of season veg and fruit and the mass global transportation it causes.

    Not to mention the impact it has on eco systems and the fact that farmers in poorer nations are stripping forrested areas either mechanicaly or via fires, (research Borneo and the US love of Peanut Butter and Palm Oil) to use uncultivated land for farming.

    So if thats your argument you have shot yourself in the foot as veggies who seek anything less than a bland diet are far more damaging to our planet so I condemn thee
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    Sep 12, 2007 9:58 PM GMT
    I can give you the names of the people who can connect you with the information about the factory farming causing global warming...if you so wish

    as for pushing other peoples agenda, everything you fight for has been fought for before. Were do you stand on the line between 'stupid' (your word) and individualism?

    these arguments are so based in ego and hypocrisy it's so hard to really try and take you all seriously.

    I have not convinced you, fine...but you are also not convincing anyone.

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    Sep 12, 2007 10:00 PM GMT
    you realize that almost all the rain forest cleared and that is STILL being cleared today, killing what is it daily...something like 30 species of plants, animals and other life forms to make room for Cattle??


    yup


    Cattle

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    Sep 12, 2007 10:03 PM GMT
    26 billion animals a year creating an unbalancing amount of methane gas. thus increasing average temps aka global warming.

    Animal feces polluting water, land and air particles. Bad for the environment.

    414 gallons of fresh water to make a pound of beef and only 14 gallons of water to make 10 of wheat. Where is all our fresh water going?

    70 percent of everything we grow is gone to feed the animals raised for you to eat...so if we didn't have the animals then we wouldn't need so much extra grain growing would we?

    you tell me to do research but clearly...you have not.
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:07 PM GMT
    so please, condemn away. I haven't to you but I will say, when we have no more world to live or cultivate on...it's your foot you will be shooting...or your head since there wont be much left to live for.

    this information has already been presented on a forum here on RJ, there are countless resources for you to see my 'sayings' as based facts. I've done the research and i wont do it for you, do it for yourself, which I'm sure you wont so please, remain ignorant...but this topic has been done and it is over, next time please include yourself when it is actually happening.
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:13 PM GMT
    there ya go again taking a comment and making it personal, I didnt say you were stupid I said spouting other peoples comments without a comprehension of the facts makes you look stupid.

    Im not basing anything on hypocrisy or ego Im engaged in the industry tackling Climate change I have read various reports on factory farming and highlighted to numerous glaring ommissions they have made, in the fact that the volume of staff engaged in a factory farming operation is far smaler than that of a fruit or vegetable operation. the level of energy used/consumed is far greater again in vegetables and fruit particular those out of season. The list goes on, why you may ask? Well mainly because independent unbiased research is extremely difficult to find and is seldom adjudicated to ensure neutrality is maintained, that is why when I procure/instruct research I ensure it is undertaken and then monitored by two diametricaly opposed organisations

    And again you spout an incorrect truth the land is cleared for ilegal logging and then forrestation with fast growing palm oil crops here is an interesting, altho I wouldnt say unwholly unbiased article for you to read

    http://www.wrm.org.uy/bulletin/105/Borneo.html
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:17 PM GMT
    as mentioned before I do the research on a daily basis
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:19 PM GMT
    haha you still won't get into research mode yourself :)

    okay, ill find some sources and i'll put your mind at ease because you simply will not accept the fact you are directly aiding in the demise of existence itself....it's hard to swallow

    and I love you completely ignored all the other reasons factory farming is bad hehe.

    just goes to show i wouldn't trust the info coming from YOUR company :)

    why do you think so many 'sources' or studies (at least out of america) can't be trusted, they are funded by farming orgs!! hehe a 19 billion dollar yearly revenue of course they are going to be biast :).

    ohhhh you :)
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:22 PM GMT
    actually...no I wont do any digging for you...there are those of us who know and there are those who will readily listen. you wont nor will you. Again, do not try and bring this subject up again, at least with me...it's been done.

    you're like the next generation drama bringer :)..now you need 4-5 new friends to be your entourage
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:27 PM GMT
    That video is so loaded it's kind of ridiculous. Not that it's not true or anything, but it makes things seem much worse than they really are, especially in comparisons to what animals would be like if left in the wild.

    Really though, all I have to say is, it pays to be at the forefront of evolution :) You think if those chickens were in our position they'd care about you? Hell no! So.. take that chickens!!

    Seriously though, if you compare the suffering caused by this type of thing to the suffering caused in the wild you'd be hard pressed to call this unethical. Now sure, this video isolates some really bad incidents, however, in general, the lives of animals who suffer (and yes, they do suffer, I won't argue that) in these situations are comprable to animals who suffer in the wild. Go watch some animals in the wild and you'll see for yourself. And I don't mean those nature shows either.

    What do you think happens when an animal gets sick in the wild? Since there's a lack of evil antibiotics, many suffer for weeks or months, and then die. Other animals get injured, their injuries get infected to hell and back, causing them to be in serious pain for many months, not just the "6 hours" like the video complains about some of those chickens. After that, of course, they die. Instead of reading just what PETA has to say I suggest you check out both sides of the argument. I used to work as a trainer in the Atlanta Zoo and before doing that I had to learn a bit on animal ethics, so I'll tell you that in general animals in the wild don't have it much better (if at all) than the animals in those farms.

    Of course, another point to consider is HUMAN suffering. Why does PETA and vegetarians only care about fucking cows and chickens and shit, when humans are caused to suffer by what they propose. For example, let's say we treat those "oh so poor chickens" better than we do. This increases costs for farmers. Supply and demand dictate that this increases cost of buying these foods, and now, poor timmy, who comes from a moderately poor family, can't afford to buy meat. So what does he do? Well he buys veggies to eat! Great, now he's healthier, but since all the timmys have to do that, it sends demand for veggies up, causing them to also increase in price. So joey from an even poorer family than timmy can no longer eat anything! Yay! So now instead of chickens starving we have people starving... And when I give this example, I don't mean for you to just think about the U.S. Think about those countries where many people can't afford to eat at all and starve to death. By improving the life quality of farm chickens, you've just condemned a larger number of those humans to starvation. Now this might be self-interest talking, but I think humans suffering is far worse than chickens suffering. We're better than god damned chickens. If we weren't, we'd be the ones being farmed. So while some people might like to sacrifice the wellbeing of people so that chickens can have better lives, I really don't want to do that, so I say, if it makes food cheaper and therefore allows for the feeding poorer populations, let the chickens suffer!

    I know PETA wants to make it seem that all of the money saved by making chickens suffer is padding the pockets of some rich guy who is laughing maniacally from the throne of his evil chicken-hating empire, but simple supply and demand dictate that this is not the case, much to PETA and friends' chagrin.

    /rant off :P
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:29 PM GMT
    Unlike you I am not taking this personal I am making note of your comments and can arm you with all the facts that you care to read. As for my company, well I work for the independently monitored Government funded body and I couldnt give a toss if you wouldnt buy our product as a) we dont sell it and b) you are too blnkered in your view point to consider it wrong.

    Ok so taking your argument then and the facts you say I am ignoring now weigh up my previous comments and see why they deserved no comment. if we all changed over to your proposal of vegetarianism factor in the global impact that would have ie an extremely carbon intensive food supply programme that would pail the factory farming impact in to total insiginificance.

    If you take the Bush administrations current stance on Bio fuels and then applied it to the UK population then we would need agricultural land the size of the whole of Europe to grow the crop sufficient for one year alone to provide enough fuel.

    Now you see why your other comments dont stack up, you mention water contamination well how on earth do you think these crops will be harvested? Contaminants are contaminants regardless of the source. Not to mention the carbon impact of producing all the machines needed to harvest said crops, move the workers around and then to ship it all for something that has a relatively short shelf life.

    Would you like me to carry on with those comments?

    I mean I commend you on your commitment to vegetarianism and the protection of animals but at least call it what it is and dont portray it to be the panacea it isnt when the facts simply stack up against you
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:35 PM GMT
    Unlike you I do do the research and I formulate my opinion based on as many sources of fact both pro and con, you say I am the drama queen I think you need to look within and stop reflecting yuor personal issues on others.
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:38 PM GMT
    Anyhow cow juice and bed for me now as its very late
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:50 PM GMT
    hehe I never said I didn't think farming in general didn't have cons, of course....what are the most impactful ones? thats the question...I'm not that stupid.


    good luck
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    Sep 12, 2007 10:52 PM GMT
    and i i said i wouldn't trust anything from your company, who said i would boycott BUYING anything lol....seems like you are getting a little defensive soooooo not so out of it emotionally as you'd like to think