Id like to see people's reaction to this video...either a person who eats meat and those that don't...

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    Sep 08, 2007 1:19 AM GMT
    This is getting crazy! Oh well, no hard feelings here. We are obviously not going to convince each other. I apologize for my age comment and apologize for misunderstanding you, owl. So let's just be friends, okay!? All my friends in real life eat meat and we never argue about it. So let's just stop the fuss, it's futile! :)
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    Sep 08, 2007 1:39 AM GMT
    Also

    After all this, I realized that we need to respect each other's beliefs not attack them, because then we will get nowhere and cause more harm than good. Being vegan doesn't necessarily mean you're a great person and being a meat eater doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad person. It's all about the intention! That's my final thought ;)
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    Sep 08, 2007 2:00 AM GMT
    I can agree with you on that one Automatic, yes some people had said things that were a little off beat, but it did come from both sides.
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    Sep 08, 2007 3:00 AM GMT
    PLANTS ARE INTELLIGENT LIVING CREATURES TOO! Plants is murder. Without plants, where would all the oxygen be?!?! Ultra-Carnivours FOREVER!!!

    Yeah, really. Just because plants cannot scream out in pain, doesn't mean they hate being eaten just as much as animals do...
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    Sep 08, 2007 3:18 AM GMT
    It is a very difficult subject to discuss. Growing up farming I was conveniently absent when the cattle were taken to the local abattoir for processing. I was around these animals day to day. I developed feelings for my cattle(handful) and it was difficult to deal with their slaughter I have to admit. I also had to endure the deer, chicken, rabbit slaughter. Oddly enough it wasn't as difficult to deal with. This was part of the survival hunting we did growing up. Farmers have poor cash flow so slaughtering, sharing and gratitude for this food is part of the experience of farming and of survival.


    vegetables/fruits are grown with many chemicals, ie the potato has some 20 different chemicals on its skin(grown commercially). so one wonders how healthy this veggies really are. the environment is impacted as well.

    Monsanto and the like are doing serious harm by genetically engineeering terminator seeds which will erradicate what mother nature put on this planet.

    I don't have much trust in the food industry in general and do my best to buy everything from my fsmily and local farmers.





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    Sep 08, 2007 3:43 AM GMT
    I just watched about 1/2 the video and I was too disgusted to watch the rest. Its sick. Just sick!

    No, I'm not a vegetarian, but what I saw is seriously making me re-think my eating habits. Instead of trying to convert the country into a meat-free society, I think a more attainable goal would be to pursue humane treatment in the raising and processing of animals. Mass farms need to be done away with, in my opinion, and a return to the family farm is would be a positive move. Also, organic farming where no growth hormones or artificial additives are used is a good idea.

    I see most of the problem lying with the "mass production" mentality that is present in modern-day corporate agribusinesses. Here in Iowa, we have hog lots (that smell awful, for one) and I can only imagine what goes on in those places. Luckily, people resist them wherever they're proposed.

    Alongside a major investigation and the institution of higher standards at these processing farms & plants, we need to free ourselves from imported food. If conditions are this bad in the United States, we can only speculate on what's going on in those oh-so-unregulated Chinese slaughter facilities.

    Very good video. Everyone should see it.
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    Sep 08, 2007 5:08 AM GMT
    I watched the first half of the video and it made me think about how sweet/tasty chicken is.

    Sorry for my earlier post though, Automatic. I only read about half the replies on this forum and only just realized we all reconciled.

    I tried going vegan but I only lasted about 5 minutes...T_T
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    Sep 08, 2007 6:16 AM GMT
    yeah i guess im sorry too

    vegan is my lifestyle, not some of yours. lets all just remember i started this veg talk with the intentions of talking about perfromance eating.

    and I still havent got that lol.

    so no hard feelings on my end either. anger and fighting only narrows our life experienceing potential.
  • fryblock

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    Sep 08, 2007 3:39 PM GMT
    roman-

    i never said i knew your body, i only inquired as to why you said that. if you eat the right foods you won't be hungry soon after. but im not trying to change you.



    elij-

    one word. organic.
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    Sep 09, 2007 4:09 PM GMT


    Pledge To Be Veg!

    Vegetarians and vegans or those on there way are welcome to join me there! It is a great community for all peace loving earthlings!

    http://my.care2.com/tjwdraws

    TimmySimpson.JPG
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    Sep 09, 2007 4:47 PM GMT
    I recently made the jump to veganism and this may sound weird coming from me, but there is nothing wrong with the eating of meat. We are omnivorous in our eating as dictated by nature.Look at our closest living cousins the monkeys. They exist on almost an exclusive vegetarian diet, HOWEVER they do supplement their diet with meat on occasion. Why? Because Nature has programmed that into their natural instincts. Look at the American Indians. Their whole survival was based on keeping a balance with nature and their environment. They were meat eaters. The difference is that they respected the animals and would send up prayers of blessing for the animals spirit when a kill was made. They killed only what they needed and used every part possible of the animal. Why? Because an omnivorous diet is programmed into their instincts by Nauture.

    I didn't become a vegan because I thought the eating of meat is wrong...it's strictly the way the animals are treated in these factory farms. I know not all farms are like that, but since i don't have the time or the desire to research ever single company that produces every single thing I eat, then I chose to just stay away from animal products all together.

    There is no difference in the eating of meat or the eating of vegetables. Science has proven that plants do seem to have a primitive form "sense". They respond to temperature changes, light, darkness, sound, and they have studies showing plants responding to human emotions. We all share the same life energy so to kill a chicken for food is no different than killing a tomato.

    It's all about the ethical treatment of the animals. Atleast in my humble opinion.

    -Den
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    Sep 09, 2007 5:52 PM GMT
    ...to kill a chicken for food is no different than killing a tomato

    I disagree. We would be wise to respect the planet and all of its parts but we do need to eat something. Eating life forms that can 1) regenerate & 2) lack a central nervous system seems to be the best plan for me and my moral center. I doubt if a tomato endures the horror a chicken being lead to slaughter feels or the endless torture egg laying hens experience crammed into tiny cages with six or seven other egg layers all having their beaks ripped from their faces until they have served their purpose to man and are turned into chicken soup. Endless violence and suffering, that is all there is in animal agriculture. I think a comparison to a tomato's life is disingenuous to say the least.

    It is also important to work towards preventing the poisoning and corruption of all the planet's life forms by companies like Monsanto who are in an abusive relationship with Mother Nature and need to be stopped before every living creature (including us) is a genetically modified organism.

    Genetic-Engineering

    wings.jpg

    Leading animal behavior scientists from across the globe now tell us that chickens are inquisitive and interesting animals whose cognitive abilities are more advanced than those of cats, dogs, and even some primates. Chickens understand sophisticated intellectual concepts, learn from watching each other, demonstrate self-control, worry about the future, and even have cultural knowledge that is passed from generation to generation. Dr. Chris Evans, who studies animal behavior and communication at Macquarie University in Australia, says, “As a trick at conferences, I sometimes list these attributes, without mentioning chickens, and people think I’m talking about monkeys.” 1

    Chickens comprehend cause-and-effect relationships and understand that objects still exist even after they are hidden from view.2 This puts the cognitive abilities of chickens above those of small human children.3 Scientists are so impressed with what we now know about the intellect of chickens and other birds that a group of international experts recently called for a new naming system to reflect the complex, mammal-like structure of avian brains.4 Dr. Christine Nicol, who studies chicken intelligence, reflected, “They may be ‘bird brains,’ but we need to redefine what we mean by ‘bird brains.’ Chickens have shown us they can do things people didn’t think they could do. There are hidden depths to chickens, definitely.” 5


    1.William Grimes, “If Chickens Are So Smart, Why Aren’t They Eating Us?” The New York Times 12 Jan. 2003, late ed..
    2 Grimes.
    3 Grimes.
    4 Rick Weiss, “Bird Brains Get Some New Names, and New Respect,” The Washington Post 1 Feb. 2005: A10.
    5 Ananova, “Chickens ‘Not Just ‘Bird Brains,’” 2005.


    The Hidden Lives of Chickens
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    Sep 09, 2007 7:45 PM GMT

    ...to kill a chicken for food is no different than killing a tomato




    All this has inspired me to write a book about a vegetarian vampire, who sucks the juices from living tomatoes and other juicy plants.  The only thing that will kill him will be a steak in the heart.  what'cha think?


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    Sep 09, 2007 8:09 PM GMT
    anyone comparing a plant to an animal is just fighting at the bottom of the barrel with no other logical, smart or creative arguments to retort with.

    simply put.

    xoxo
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    Sep 09, 2007 8:56 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit, wouldn't the vegetarian vampire's primary source of satisfaction be the blood orange?
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    Sep 09, 2007 9:51 PM GMT
    "The only thing that will kill him will be a steak in the heart."

    Unless it's a beefsteak.
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    Sep 09, 2007 11:18 PM GMT
    tjwdraws-

    what makes vegans and vegetarians the only peace loving earthlings?

    and it seems like you are saying that it is better to be vegan/veggie than anything else.

    and the information about the chickens, two few notes follow:

    lets start with the basic, there are other animals in need of that amount of effort to be saved, think of all the animals on the endangered list.

    i would have been able to handle all that info if you actually spoke on it, rather then just copy pasting everything, where are your words? yes cite your info, but what about your take on what is being said?


    oh and ps, not every farm is the same way in the means of treatment.
    you cant generalize and say all chickens are treated the same way. if the economy/government would actually step up and help there would be more smaller farms, the need for large farms would be a thing of the past. but it costs too much to run a farm and do anything now a days.


    fryblock-

    it was just a matter of the way things were understood, it just seemed like you were saying that every one who changes does the same thing.
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    Sep 09, 2007 11:35 PM GMT
    "ActiveAndFit, wouldn't the vegetarian vampire's primary source of satisfaction be the blood orange?"

    McGay, I am trying to be sensitive here!

    "Unless it's a beefsteak."

    Doc Obscence: beefsteak, steak - you say tomato, I say chicken .. WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? c'mon guys .. ya gotta work with me!
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    Sep 09, 2007 11:52 PM GMT
    I tried vegetarianism with my dog-threw him a carrot and told him it was good for his eyes.
    all I got was the look-ok, ha ha very funny now where's my real supper?

    In the cycle of nature, the procurement of food is not pretty. It's unsettling to say the least. yes the whole concept of slaughter is visceral.

    Living in a remote, isolated community with distinct seasons(summer's the shortest), I adapt to a survivalist way of life out of necessity; fish , hunt, grow vegetables and fruit and am grateful for being able to provide for myself and those around me.


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    Sep 10, 2007 12:58 AM GMT
    Wow...this topic is venom. I love the way everyone took a tiny little piece of my post completely out of context and used it to attack me.

    Just so we are clear. I did not compare the life of an animal with a tomato. I was trying to make the point that all things on this planet share the same life energy.

    I'll leave you guys to your pissing contest and just live my life the way I feel is best.

    -Den
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    Sep 10, 2007 1:16 AM GMT
    roman74,

    I said: "Vegetarians and vegans or those on there way are welcome to join me there! It is a great community for all peace loving earthlings!"

    Perhaps you fit into one of those categories, perhaps not. I see these possibilities

    I extended an invitation to visit me on Care2 to:
    1. Vegetarians and Vegans
    2. those on there way (to becoming Vegetarians or vegans).

    3. New sentence commenting on how Care2 is a great community for all peace loving earthlings. Just my opinion on the site. It is not a vegetarian community but it is a progressive community and many there are concerned about the plight of animals we humans use and abuse among many many other things. Anyone can join but I am most interested in networking with those who have similar dietary morals.

    I believe I did use my own words about chickens and the unthoughtful suggestion that the taking of life from a chicken was no worse than taking the life of a tomato.

    I followed up by pasting part of a story on another website that, in my opinion, backed up my position. The notes are from that site and are not mine.

    You suggest that because I posted some information about the much abused chicken (truthfully one of the most abused of all factory farmed animals IMO) I do not also have thoughts about other animals and that is simply not correct. This thread does focus on animals used in agriculture but i can assure you I have many causes I care about, including those concerning our own species.

    I think the death of the family farm is largely due to the corporate takeover of the USA. Thankfully some still look out for the little guy but in today's political culture the corporation rules all of our lives. Sad but true.

    Here is a short animated film about Factory Farms and their impact on animals, health, communities, and the environment.

    THE MEATRIX



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    Sep 12, 2007 11:58 AM GMT
    Jackal I really wouldnt have an issue eating cats dogs or any other animal for that matter thats just your social view that they shouldnt be eaten. Whereas other countries its the norm and eating a cow is taboo.

    I find it funny how people get attached to animals as they do anyway but thats a whole other issue.
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    Sep 12, 2007 12:34 PM GMT
    elij-

    look at your dogs teeth then look at yours? are they the same?

    no.

    Can your teeth rip into wild animal flesh? can your jaw lock while that animal is thrashing to get away?

    no.

    can you eat meat raw and be okay?

    no.

    do you need it cooked?

    yes.

    why?

    Because by 'releasing the juices' (and having condensed water enter you tenderize and soften the meat so you CAN bite into it, chew it (not easily) and it can safely be pushed down the track into your tummy. where it will then remain for days and days rotting because, we have a longer outting process than say....your dog.

    my point? throwing your dog a carrot as a direct allusion to 'it's natural' and taking out that natural part of us is dumb, well to each his own an eat all the meat you want but please...

    ...next time use a more respectable comparison and not a dog who can survive souly on fresh meat.
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    Sep 12, 2007 12:57 PM GMT
    human bodies have not evolved in such a way that they are unable to process raw meat we just ate different pieces or dried it first which is no different to what occurs in a vast number of species in the animal kingdom.

    The only major difference now is that we eat our meat alot fresher and that we used to let it rot for longer
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    Sep 12, 2007 3:19 PM GMT
    slayer-I don't give a rats ass if you don't eat meat. I don't care if you juice carrots for breakfast lunch and dinner. I don't care if you have issues with slaughterhouses.

    In every other topic you suggest, it's about you being right. You being loud, opinionated, mouthing off to make your stupid points.

    The Inuit(my aboringinal roots) in the north eat RAW fish, mammalian meat period so your dumb analogy to the dog fails to prove anything. Quelle surprise?

    Far from you telling me how to live my life, I will continue to hunt fish and yes grow veggies and bake bread because nothing you said convinced me otherwise.