Mormons need to be taught a lesson...

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    Nov 07, 2008 5:51 AM GMT
    ruck_us said
    Azstreaker saidYou know, out of any religious sect Mormons have been persecuted the most. I am sure they had plenty of input....and why not? They obviously feel threatened for a reason. In any event, it was not the Mormon faith who single handily supported the proposition. There are huge Christian right group's and Evangelical Baptist groups and many other Catholic groups who supported this vote against gay marriage.

    Here, in Arizona, I did not see one Mormon church display any banners against the issue (and we have them on every corrner). I did see MANY on other churches and they are to numerous to name. So why not take your B_Fing party to all right wing faiths????

    One more side note. It was Jerry Brown who wrote this prop and I think he worded it to FAIL. I would talk to him about it first.....I think he wanted it to fail so it could go to the Supreme Court!


    LDS members are estimated to have contributed 70% of the Yes on 8 funding. True, Focus on the Family, the Knights of Columbus, and other evangelical and Catholic organizations played a role, but it was clearly the Mormons who took the lead.

    Edit: BTW, CNN's Jeffrey Toobin tonight made the comment that overturning this proposition is an extreme long shot. The theory is that this issue breaks along a generational divide. He suggests that, in five or so years, gay rights activists can put their own proposition on the ballot to overturn Prop 8. By then, the generational divide may break in favor of the younger set. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but he makes a good point.


    From what I understand they felt, as a group very threatened. It's sad there was not more communication between the two sides. They base their entire belief system on the family structure. This is not a bad idea. Fundamentally a good idea when you consider the huge divorce rate world wide. It seemed to me they also felt that if they did not defeat this proposition to their favor it would allow law suits for gay couples to be married in their Temples. Like I said, more should have been discussed.

    What I do think it violates are civil rights, builds discrimination into a constitution and allows state and church powers to be unified. So you see....I am not for the passage as it is now. It's a shame it was not worked out better......
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    Nov 07, 2008 5:55 AM GMT
    that lezbian is slick as hell... i wanna shake her hand
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    Nov 07, 2008 5:59 AM GMT
    Man, Mormans have been creeping me out ever since the South Park episode on them.
    This sure as shit aint helping their cause. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:02 AM GMT
    I don't see much purpose in singling them out. Don't we run the risk of alienating potential mormon supporters of our cause?
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:11 AM GMT
    dowal saidI don't see much purpose in singling them out. Don't we run the risk of alienating potential mormon supporters of our cause?
    you mean all 300 of them? icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:12 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidyou mean all 300 of them?

    Well history has shown us that 300 men have faced thousands before and made a huge impact icon_razz.gificon_cool.gificon_biggrin.gif
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:12 AM GMT
    Wow what a GREAT SPEAKER that lady was. I LOVE LESBIANS! Woot. Im so proud of my gay community, every LGBandT.

    And again what a GREAT SPEAKER she was. Woot. Im donating.

    www.invalidateprop8.orgicon_biggrin.gif


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    Nov 07, 2008 6:14 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit said
    dowal saidI don't see much purpose in singling them out. Don't we run the risk of alienating potential mormon supporters of our cause?
    you mean all 300 of them? icon_lol.gif


    Well it turns out 8 of them were gay, so it's really only 292, but still.
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:17 AM GMT
    BoardRider53 said
    ActiveAndFit saidyou mean all 300 of them?

    Well history has shown us that 300 men have faced thousands before and made a huge impact icon_razz.gificon_cool.gificon_biggrin.gif
    icon_eek.gif yeah but didn't they all get killed? icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:20 AM GMT
    icon_confused.gif Hey is it supposed to be Brigham Young University or Bigot Young University?
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:21 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit said
    BoardRider53 said
    ActiveAndFit saidyou mean all 300 of them?

    Well history has shown us that 300 men have faced thousands before and made a huge impact icon_razz.gificon_cool.gificon_biggrin.gif
    icon_eek.gif yeah but didn't they all get killed? icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

    Eh, true. But they still made a lasting impression for their cause.
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:22 AM GMT
    dowal said
    ActiveAndFit said
    dowal saidI don't see much purpose in singling them out. Don't we run the risk of alienating potential mormon supporters of our cause?
    you mean all 300 of them? icon_lol.gif


    Well it turns out 8 of them were gay, so it's really only 292, but still.



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    Nov 07, 2008 6:22 AM GMT
    The woman in the video is Lorri Jean. She is the Chief Executive Officer of the LA Gay and Lesbian Center. She totally rocks and is my hero! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:22 AM GMT
    The ironic part about the LDS church feeling so strongly that marriage should only be between "ONE man and ONE woman" is that they still believe that if you make it to the highest level of heaven you can have more than one wife! WTF! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
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    Nov 07, 2008 6:37 AM GMT
    I don't see much purpose in singling them out. Don't we run the risk of alienating potential mormon supporters of our cause?

    Not sure there's even 300 of them. But those mormons in favor did supply a lot of the money so that they could put those commercials on TV, and putting commercials on TV in Califronia isn't cheap, saying that if 8 passed schools would teach children about homosexuality, and those commercials were very effective. I know people who were influenced by them and by their feelings for their children, and these are people who have many homosexual friends and are overall supportive of homosexuals but said "that is the part of proposition 8 that I don't like.". And while I argued that those commercials were scare tactics and not true, I'm not sure that that convinced them, and it certainly undermined our support with people who otherwise probably would have supported our position.

    As far as I'm concerned the Mormons can do what they want with their money, and I'm not for revoking their tax exempt status, or that Mormons need to be taught a lesson. But I see nothing wrong with protesting against them donating money, or pointing that out to people that they've been influenced by the money of religious bigots.

    It took money to win proposition 8, the Mormon church supplied a large amount of that money, enough to make a difference, and that's something that should be high lighted. They're not some warm fuzzy, they're playing for keeps, so know what you're fighting, and learn how to fight them.
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    Nov 07, 2008 7:06 AM GMT
    LDS, Catholic, Christian, whatever. That is not my realm. I do not believe in a god, or gods, so blaming one or the other doesn't work for me. If a church crossed the line they should definitely be investigated and if guilty should lose their tax exemptions. Maybe a project should be started, using civil law, against the churches that crossed the lines. But, historically, the odds of victory are slim. MLK was as political as heck and moved many people to vote for civil rights but I doubt we could fine the Baptist churches that he preached from guilty of anything. Besides, seperation of church and state is not found in the Constitution. It is from a letter from Jefferson, I believe, to a congregation that wrote him worried about religious freedom in the new US. It was part of his reply to them.

    What we need is a single focused plan. We need the best and brightest among us to come up with a plan to focus gay buying power in a way that will demonstrate our strength and power. Money talks. It always does. But it cannot be a bunch of random boycotts. It needs focus. It needs laser like focus. We are too scattered. A march in Weho will do nothing. A march in Hillcrest in San Diego will do nothing. We too often preach to the choir.

    We gay people can do what the Mormon church did. We have the money and resources. We need to pick a target and attack it. Find a weakness and exploit it. I do not know what that is but I know that so many bright gay people working together can. Maybe we attack AZ as it would be the most easy to attack. Stop all gay money from going there and make sure they know it. For a few years, no gay pride, no gay rodeo, no gay anything. Let economics speak. Put a bit of fear in other states. No gay money to any AZ based company. And let them know why. Let them see that their decision has consequences. Make other states think twice. I just pick AZ because it is the smallest of the states that banned gay marriage and thus most susceptible. We need to band together. Strength in numbers and dollars.

    Just a thought. But all of the ideas listed above in previously posts seem to me reactionary but not constructive. Maybe we should stop all of the white parties and cruises and such, and put that money into a single focused attack at something that will hurt straight America. I just do not know what that is. Better minds than mine will need to decide. But, we need to think like a military and attack key targets. Maybe we need someone with military experience to develop the plan. We have so many former gay military. Maybe they can help us out.
  • MotorBrett

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    Nov 07, 2008 7:16 AM GMT
    irishkcguy saidThe Hollywood community should boycott Utah, starting with Park City: no skiing, no snowboarding, no Sundance Film Festival.....


    I like this idea alot!!
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    Nov 07, 2008 7:18 AM GMT
    jprswim said


    I love her. fight California and don't stop till you have your rights!

    I can't believe this prop 8 thing passed... icon_evil.gif
  • MotorBrett

    Posts: 145

    Nov 07, 2008 7:19 AM GMT
    tommysguns2000 saiddammit..I thought this thread was going to be about spanking hot mormon guys on their naked little behinds...

    bleh...icon_rolleyes.gif

    but whatever...if motorbrett is going to protest with his shirt off, I'M SO IN!!


    YES I WILL!! I'll protest naked if I have to!!
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    Nov 07, 2008 7:19 AM GMT
    ObsceneWish saidGeez it's the argument over the depiction of Mormons in "Angels in America" all over again.

    Did you like that movie?
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    Nov 07, 2008 7:28 AM GMT
    Does anybody else have this sudden urge to punch Bill Paxton in the face?
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    Nov 07, 2008 7:29 AM GMT
    oh man if Motorbrett is gonna be shirtless in front of the temple I am in! lol
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    Nov 07, 2008 7:34 AM GMT
    Maybe Meninlove is right-

    Federal level.

    Maybe we need to take advantage of this new Democratic trio, Obama-Reid-Pelosi, and put them on the spot. They have hardly been helpful to gays. Obama was for Prop 8. Bill Clinton signed Doma for no real reason. Maybe we have this one chance, with three Democrats leading the nation, to force them to do what we need them to do. On a Federal level. Put them in a position of put up or shut up on Gay Rights. They got our money and votes but they have not done much for us really. Crumbs from the banquet table. Knowing that we will still vote for them.

    I say now is our time. Put them on the spot. Make them answer hard questions publicly. Make them state a position. For us or against us and then make them follow through. Do not let them give glib evasive answers and do nothing while say they "support" us. They have the power completely. Obama should end DOMA. He should end "don't ask don't tell" and end discrimination in the military. And we should make him do it. We supported him, we financed him, he has the power and the position. If he does not, he should pay.
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    Nov 07, 2008 7:42 AM GMT
    Motor-

    You are absolutely right. Sundance at Park City is a huge event. Hollywood says it supports us and Redford is a liberal. We should start right now a campaign to shame any Hollywood type that goes there for the film fest. No on Sundance. Shut it down. No money to Utah.

    That is absolutely brilliant. It would be big, it would get press, and it would make all of the Hollywood types have to explain why they support us but spend money in Utah. Make it a mark of shame.

    Brilliant! It is a start.
  • MotorBrett

    Posts: 145

    Nov 07, 2008 7:43 AM GMT
    Agreed, the federal level is where this needs to go.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/329276/

    On the Mormon thing, I can't help but post one last bit:

    I got this forward today and I think it's genius!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Friends,

    It is time to be on the offense instead of the defense. This is VERY important!! Please help. Don't get mad. Get even.

    Subject: Take Action Against the Mormon Church (LDS) - Lets send out a clear message!!

    If it upsets you that a church can meddle with another state's political
    statutes, here's something simple you can do:

    To report the LDS Church to the IRS, simply take 5 minutes to print
    these articles out and any others you can find:

    http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10839546
    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10842051

    Then print, sign, and send the attached form (already completed, after
    the jump) or download a blank and fill it out yourself at

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

    List the taxpayer as:

    Thomas S. Monson, et al
    50 East North Temple
    Salt Lake City, Utah 84150

    List his occupation as President and the business as The Church of Jesus
    Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

    Check the boxes for False Exemption and Public/Political Corruption.

    Then in the Comments section demand that the LDS Church be fined and
    their tax-exempt status revoked for repeated and blatant violations of
    the IRS's separate of church and state rules, and for conspiring to
    interfere with a state's political process.

    Check Yes under "Are books/records available?" and write in "campaign
    finance records."

    You don't have to provide any of your own personal info.

    Mail the form
    and the printed articles to:

    Internal Revenue Service
    Fresno, CA 93888
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The tax code violation was:

    Section 501(c)(3) describes corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literacy, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in section (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distribution of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.

    From IRS Publication 1828 Page 5,
    Substantial Lobbying Activity
    In general, no organization, including a church, may qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). An IRC section 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.