California black voters: how ironic

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    Nov 07, 2008 1:00 AM GMT
    gymguy1 said And not every black person voted for Obama. Not sure I like the KFC joke....yeah...I definitely dont like that joke. Your not racist but that joke is tip toeing on that line.


    If you want to get offended by every little stereotype, then white people are only gonna say it behind your back instead. But I said it to your face, and jokingly but also for shock value (it should get more black people to respond to this thread as opposed to just white people). I love KFC. And I think the stereotype that black people like chicken is funny, and neutral at it's worst. Chicken is a healthy form of meat to eat. Why would you be offended? I'm not going to tip-toe around your race. I make all sorts of jokes and you are not exempt just because you're black. I include you too, so feel special! icon_eek.gificon_lol.gif
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9528

    Nov 07, 2008 1:01 AM GMT
    African Americans and gays must work together for civil rights issue. Within the next two Presidential elections, the political battleground will be over the Latino vote because sooner or later, Latino/Hispanics will be the largest minority race. If you start seeing Republicans culling immigration rhetoric and start giving amnesty light rhetoric to illegal immigrants, get ready. Latinos are split between liberal/moderate/conservative, moreso than African Americans. If we don't start supporting each other at least politically, then we will face an even larger opposition and the Democratic Party as a whole will fall severely.

    I heard something the other day on a conservative talk show and there was mention about their surprise at the Latino vote.

    I'm not saying that Latinos will oppose Blacks and gays, but I'm saying that whoever starts reaching out to the other first, the third "companion" could be left out.
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    Nov 07, 2008 1:03 AM GMT
    coolHUSSEINdude saidCitizenSol said, "I don't wholly disagree with you on the cultural issue but the majority of voters were white and the black percentage of prop 8 voters is only 6%. I'm simply saying there's no way the black vote is responsible for the passage of prop 8.

    79% of the voters were white. I welcome conversation on homophobia in the black community but I'd like to straighten out some facts and erroneous assumptions before we do it."


    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/voters-supported-black-2218703-latino-proposition

    Read this article. I'm not saying the majority of supporters were black. What the article is saying is that there is a correlation between the increase in black and latino voters who came out in support of obama and the slight difference that made Prop 8 pass could be attributed to that support. 70% of black voters supported Prop 8. That is a huge significance as we expected the usual white mormons to push the issue.

    Do you think that these white religious zealots were voting for Obama? That is the sharp contrast that isolates the black vote into being the factor that made the difference in passing Prop 8.


    I get what your saying, I'm just trying to say that being a minority or being oppressed doesn't rid anyone of discrimatory beliefs or feelings and to believe that it does is a mistake that people can only blame themselves for believing in. There's no example in the history of manking to support the belief that being an oppressed minority enlightens a group.
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    Nov 07, 2008 1:05 AM GMT
    What some of you guys fail to realize is that the black church unfortunately still has a great deal of influence over black culture at large. The black church will never promote anything they feel threatens the traditional family. I myself, don't believe in organized religions at all, I think they cause more harm then good. I'm not from California, nor do I pretend to understand California politics, but it seems to me, you need to get inside the head of the people that started Prop 8, then you might be able to defeat them. Not all black people are against gay marriage. But on the other hand, most of Black America equates being gay with something for well to do white men. I'll bet that all of the people, black, white and brown looked at gay marriage as another privilege for an already privileged group. We need to change the way America views us as a gay community.
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    Nov 07, 2008 1:06 AM GMT
    jakebenson said
    gymguy1 said And not every black person voted for Obama. Not sure I like the KFC joke....yeah...I definitely dont like that joke. Your not racist but that joke is tip toeing on that line.


    If you want to get offended by every little stereotype, then white people are only gonna say it behind your back instead. But I said it to your face, and jokingly but also for shock value (it should get more black people to respond to this thread as opposed to just white people). I love KFC. And I think the stereotype that black people like chicken is funny, and neutral at it's worst. Chicken is a healthy form of meat to eat. Why would you be offended? I'm not going to tip-toe around your race. I make all sorts of jokes and you are not exempt just because you're black. I include you too, so feel special! icon_eek.gificon_lol.gif


    Not that KFC was the crux of your point, but that chain is run by leaders of the Mormon church.

    Just a heads-up.
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    Nov 07, 2008 1:10 AM GMT
    Jsttennis77 saidWhat I'm most angry about in regard to the African American vote is that we the gay community let that vote slip right away from us out of complete stupidity. It's our fault. Not those within the AA community who went with their traditional teachings and upbringing.

    We had all the resources and time to reach out knowing pro 8 would try and manipulate that specific vote and thats exactly what they did. Pro 8 saw an open door knowing how the AA community feels about homosexuality and they jumped all over it sending out those damn flyers suggesting Obama supported prop 8. That was the clearest sign to us that we needed to quickly go into that community to debunk that shit and talk openly about what they would be doing if they willingly handed over a vote of support for this fucked up prop. Instead, we half heartedly from a distance tried to explain Obama was against prop 8 and called the haters a bunch of liars and did nothing else.

    We had a golden opportunity to challenge the AA community not to hand over any support to a group of individuals that historically fought to deny them their rights so be very careful in working with them. Some within those religious groups still believe the AA community should be sitting in the back of that bus seen but not heard. We could have inspired them not to be their suckers now and have enough self respect not to let them manipulate them like this. If anyone truly has a personal issue with two men or two woman legally getting married then feel free to ask any questions.

    We needed to firmly establish with the AA community this is not only a fight to give every hard working tax paying citizen their equal rights but it is also a fight against all forms of discrimination. It's an incredible opportunity to tell these self righteous organizations neck deep in a history of bigotry, discrimination and hatred to go back to hell where they came from.

    We blew it with the African American vote. They didn't owe us a damn thing. It was up to us to be logical and respectful enough in looking at each target vote and construct a dialogue to get that vote. Pro 8 clearly saw their chance to manipulate that vote and they went for it. We sat back based on assumption that they'd naturally vote with us. That infuriates me because we came so close yet we forgot one group.

    The sobering lesson is that every thing gay african american men have been telling us about the gay community is true. We do exclude them to such a degree we are insulting enough to assume we can guess how they would vote on this issue. We're idiots.

    We are going to win this thing eventually and the next time around we are going to be much more vigilant with these target groups and do a hell of a lot more foot work in those areas.

    The AA community brought to the table over 700,000 votes. Yes it's heartbreaking we only got 200,000 of those votes knowing close to 500,000 willingly voted along with other groups that carry the stigma of a lot of well known discrimination specifically targeting that same community. Thats even more devastating.


    I agree!!!
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    Nov 07, 2008 1:21 AM GMT
    cityguy39 saidWhat some of you guys fail to realize is that the black church unfortunately still has a great deal of influence over black culture at large. The black church will never promote anything they feel threatens the traditional family. I myself, don't believe in organized religions at all, I think they cause more harm then good. I'm not from California, nor do I pretend to understand California politics, but it seems to me, you need to get inside the head of the people that started Prop 8, then you might be able to defeat them. Not all black people are against gay marriage. But on the other hand, most of Black America equates being gay with something for well to do white men. I'll bet that all of the people, black, white and brown looked at gay marriage as another privilege for an already privileged group. We need to change the way America views us as a gay community.


    I totally agree with you in how to approach the black community on this issue. I have been fully aware of the black communities very strong stand when it comes to homosexuality. What we needed to do was prepare for the pro 8 haters manipulation of that situation just to use the black vote. We basically all but handed that vote right over to them with no real fight.

    I honestly believe we could have challenged many of those black votes going pro by making it clear that they were voting with many who they would personally define as their own enemy given a thorough background check on who was really funding and supporting this drive to discriminate. If they had an issue with gay marriage at least consider self respect before working with someone.

    Would they be willing to over look the history of some of these organizations which was what the pro 8 haters hoped or would they have the guts to tell them to go fuck themselves? Even if it meant voting for a lifestyle they might not agree with but before passing complete judgement get to know a few gay couples who are already married.

    We fucked up not reaching out to them and taking on the challenge to create a clear dialogue. If in the end after presenting our arguments they still felt compelled to stop legal gay marriage then so be it. But we should have never just sat back.
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    Nov 07, 2008 1:28 AM GMT
    The argument that the black community should know better because of what it has been through makes some sense, but it's also a bit unrealistic. If there's even gay people who are not supportive of the cause, why do we expect another group to be?
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    Nov 07, 2008 1:48 AM GMT
    I can add that over the years I've certainly seen PLENTY of racism in the gay community - not institutional, generally, but it's there.

    We hope that all excluded minorities (and as a white male in America, I can claim that only in the limited sense of my sexuality) will sympathize with all others. But it doesn't always happen.

    I was very happy, for instance, to see that hispanics came out for BHO - there is certainly mistrust between some hispanic and black segments of our population. There was a leap of faith there.

    Cityguy knows whereof he speaks when he says the church influence was huge among the mainly catholic hispanic population and among religious blacks families in CA.

    As far as knowledge of the voters, it is actually the more sophisticated person who can select one candidate and still vote for a proposition the candidate opposes. One does not equal the other. BHO opposed prop 8, but it hardly defined his candidacy.
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    Nov 07, 2008 1:48 AM GMT

    BTW, I haven't seen a mention here of the card sent out at the 11th hour by prop 8 supporters claiming Obama was against it. It was sent primarily to minority voters, I believe - and though they "apologized" after, I wonder what the effect of that was thought to be? Certainly not everyone who received the card would have heard the retraction - but did it amount to anything?
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    Nov 07, 2008 2:03 AM GMT
    GQguy2 saidI think most gay people not all are upset prop 8 didn't pass in California, but this whole thing of pitting gay whites against gay blacks and latinos won't help the cause at all. Equal rights didn't happen over night it takes time we just have to wait for our time to come. I wonder if the roles were reverse would gay white men fight as hard for the rights of African Americans as they want us to fight for them? Something tells me from some of the remarks I have read on this board the answer is NO!

    In this time frame yes we would and we kinda just did voting for a black president.
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    Nov 07, 2008 2:11 AM GMT
    sexysamer saidIt is not only black or Mormons voted yes on Prop. 8. Many other anti-gay marriage people in all race and all different religions. Jakebenson, I am jsut curious why do you care? You are thinking about getting marry to someone?

    I am just curiouse to WHY you dont care?
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    Nov 07, 2008 2:42 AM GMT
    Jefferey said
    GQguy2 saidI think most gay people not all are upset prop 8 didn't pass in California, but this whole thing of pitting gay whites against gay blacks and latinos won't help the cause at all. Equal rights didn't happen over night it takes time we just have to wait for our time to come. I wonder if the roles were reverse would gay white men fight as hard for the rights of African Americans as they want us to fight for them? Something tells me from some of the remarks I have read on this board the answer is NO!

    In this time frame yes we would and we kinda just did voting for a black president.


    So did you vote for Obama because he was black?

    BTW, do you have much contact with black people, gay or straight? Have many black friends or ever had a black lover?
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    Nov 07, 2008 2:51 AM GMT
    charlitos saidWe are not really gonna make any difference claiming our rights in a gay forum...it might help you to feel better when you finally say everything you have inside that is pissing you off. If you want to do something then DO something, in the right places and the right people. Realjock will be useful to find support but if you want to make a difference, stop complaining in a gay website and go outside and F&*# make a difference.


    Making a difference starts with a discussion. It helps find answers. And believe me I'm going to print all the stats of who voted yes on 8 onto a t-shirt, with #1 being regular church goers, and #2 being black people. Maybe that will strike some nerves.

    Meanwhile, do us all a favor and open up a can of kill yourself. Nothing is more annoying than some ass-bandit spewing the typical fallacy "omg stop complaining and do something." You're more annoying than Sarah Palin's vagina.

    sexysamer saidIt is not only black or Mormons voted yes on Prop. 8. Many other anti-gay marriage people in all race and all different religions. Jakebenson, I am jsut curious why do you care? You are thinking about getting marry to someone?


    Regular church goers, Mormons, and to a slightly lesser extent black people are in the lead. Latinos and Asians to a MUCH lesser extent. There's already threads on the Mormons so I started one on blacks. It's typical for Mormons to hate on gays, but wtf why blacks?

    I don't plan on marrying anyone. I'm a fucking slut. But my close friend wants to marry his boyfriend. So I'm fighting for his rights. This isn't about me.

    CitizenSol said
    pelotudo87 saidAs a person of mixed race myself, I think it goes back to how during slave times there was so much faith in Christianity, and that God would lead them out of bondage. Church is still a very important part of African-American culture, and in the church-going demographic, there is alot of anti-gay sentiment.
    [quote]

    Exactly, thanks for bringing that up. Its a very good point. If only many of these guys understood that.


    While this helps me understand WHY the majority of black people voted gay marriage down, the church being part of black culture because whites forced it down their throats during slavery doesn't justify why blacks voted gay marriage down.

    GQguy2 saidI think most gay people not all are upset prop 8 didn't pass in California, but this whole thing of pitting gay whites against gay blacks and latinos won't help the cause at all.


    I didn't mean to make this whites against blacks in the gay community and I apologize if any black people in this forum think I'm blaming them because I'm not. I feel like ALL gay minorities are on the right side on this issue. I am EXCLUSIVELY referring to STRAIGHT black people in my rant. I'm glad people are arguing. It gets racial tension out in the open instead of keeping it covert.

    GQguy2 said
    And why did it take us so long to elect our first black president?


    Because Obama belongs to the first generation of black people who were raised without any laws oppressing his people. For this same reason, it will be a good 30-50 years until a gay person is elected as president.
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    Nov 07, 2008 2:54 AM GMT
    CitizenSol said
    Jefferey said
    GQguy2 saidI think most gay people not all are upset prop 8 didn't pass in California, but this whole thing of pitting gay whites against gay blacks and latinos won't help the cause at all. Equal rights didn't happen over night it takes time we just have to wait for our time to come. I wonder if the roles were reverse would gay white men fight as hard for the rights of African Americans as they want us to fight for them? Something tells me from some of the remarks I have read on this board the answer is NO!

    In this time frame yes we would and we kinda just did voting for a black president.


    So did you vote for Obama because he was black?

    BTW, do you have much contact with black people, gay or straight? Have many black friends or ever had a black lover?

    Yes I do. One of my best friends Jamila is a black lesbian. I have also been in a relationship with a black football player on the UNLV team that was in the closet. Thats why we broke it off. And the first guy I have ever messed around with when i was 16 was black and got cought by my grandma. I have alot of employees that are black. I am not against black people im not against. They are in my leveryday life. Like I said before I was just in shock to learn the persentage. I never exspected that. You gave a good responce earlier and helped me understand a lil bit more but im just still in shock. And very much angry not at the black people about the whole situation. It is very wrong and hurtfull and it is said that you guys did have to fight for many years to get where you are today so congrates. Now we must all stick together and fight for an all RACE gay issue.
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    Nov 07, 2008 2:56 AM GMT
    GQguy2 said
    Jefferey said
    GQguy2 saidI think most gay people not all are upset prop 8 didn't pass in California, but this whole thing of pitting gay whites against gay blacks and latinos won't help the cause at all. Equal rights didn't happen over night it takes time we just have to wait for our time to come. I wonder if the roles were reverse would gay white men fight as hard for the rights of African Americans as they want us to fight for them? Something tells me from some of the remarks I have read on this board the answer is NO!

    In this time frame yes we would and we kinda just did voting for a black president.




    And why did it take us so long to elect our first black president?

    I know it is sad you guys had to.So is this your way of paying us back
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:13 AM GMT
    CitizenSol said
    Jefferey said
    GQguy2 saidI think most gay people not all are upset prop 8 didn't pass in California, but this whole thing of pitting gay whites against gay blacks and latinos won't help the cause at all. Equal rights didn't happen over night it takes time we just have to wait for our time to come. I wonder if the roles were reverse would gay white men fight as hard for the rights of African Americans as they want us to fight for them? Something tells me from some of the remarks I have read on this board the answer is NO!

    In this time frame yes we would and we kinda just did voting for a black president.


    So did you vote for Obama because he was black?

    BTW, do you have much contact with black people, gay or straight? Have many black friends or ever had a black lover?


    Whether CQguy2 has contact with black people or not is irrelevant to his statement. The statistics clearly show that black people backed their own people, but CLEARLY didn't back gay marriage.

    I think a large chunk of black people voted for Obama because he was black, as did many non-black people, and I think rightfully so. If a homo or a Jew ran for presidency, you bet I'd be very biased in their favor.

    However, I don't think most black people voted for Obama because they wanted diversity, but because they wanted to be recognized, fully validated, and feel proud that anyone of their group can achieve highest position in the United States. This is a victory for black people, but the straight black people in California forget the WHOLE message that this is supposed to be a victory about DIVERSITY. Epic FAIL.
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:14 AM GMT
    who was unwilling to vote for a black man? he just won a landslide... 6 million popular votes and almost 2:1 in the electoral college...
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:16 AM GMT
    dancerjack saidwho was unwilling to vote for a black man? he just won a landslide... 6 million popular votes and almost 2:1 in the electoral college...


    He won partially thanks to the Latinos and Blacks. I think Whites were only about 40% in his favor.
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:20 AM GMT
    charlitos saidThats understandable if you take into account that there are not that many black gay guys, so it will take longer for this culture to accept this sexual orientation. I dont think that can justify their vote but that can explain why is happening at least. icon_confused.gif


    How about in prison? I think about 95% of the black population there is gay, but they are most likely just pretending LOL.
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:21 AM GMT
    coolHUSSEINdude saidIf blacks voted for Obama because he is black above all else, then what were the whites thinking about Bush or McCain for that matter?


    The only black guy at my workplace voted strictly race, said he had never had the chance to vote for a black guy for president before lol. But it seemed to work. icon_biggrin.gif
  • SkyMiles

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    Nov 07, 2008 3:21 AM GMT
    The anger is understandable as is the horrifying irony that many minorities in CA used their strength both to advance this country forward in the selection of a new president...AND not just deny civil rights to another minority group but take away rights they currently have! It is vile. It is disgusting. Part of how that all went down is because of the LDS Church's $20 Million dollar sleaze campaign.

    But I'll also say that this fight is NOT over. Not by a long shot. History is on the side of civil rights and so is our Constitution. Being mad at blacks, hispanics, or anyone else is just not productive and will set the cause of gay rights back. We've got to stay strong, that's all and NOT get caught up in distractions like this one defeat. We WILL win the war in the end.
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:22 AM GMT
    jakebenson said
    CitizenSol said
    Jefferey said
    GQguy2 saidI think most gay people not all are upset prop 8 didn't pass in California, but this whole thing of pitting gay whites against gay blacks and latinos won't help the cause at all. Equal rights didn't happen over night it takes time we just have to wait for our time to come. I wonder if the roles were reverse would gay white men fight as hard for the rights of African Americans as they want us to fight for them? Something tells me from some of the remarks I have read on this board the answer is NO!

    In this time frame yes we would and we kinda just did voting for a black president.


    So did you vote for Obama because he was black?

    BTW, do you have much contact with black people, gay or straight? Have many black friends or ever had a black lover?


    Whether CQguy2 has contact with black people or not is irrelevant to his statement. The statistics clearly show that black people backed their own people, but CLEARLY didn't back gay marriage.

    I think a large chunk of black people voted for Obama because he was black, as did many non-black people, and I think rightfully so. If a homo or a Jew ran for presidency, you bet I'd be very biased in their favor.

    However, I don't think most black people voted for Obama because they wanted diversity, but because they wanted to be recognized, fully validated, and feel proud that anyone of their group can achieve highest position in the United States. This is a victory for black people, but the straight black people in California forget the WHOLE message that this is supposed to be a victory about DIVERSITY. Epic FAIL.

    My fucking point exactly!!! Thank you Jake
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:24 AM GMT
    So. Whats the plan? Is it time for the non-black gay community to become racist and join the KKK?
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:28 AM GMT
    Please everyone remember, it is not race that makes one prejudiced, but fear, ignorance and hate.