California black voters: how ironic

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    Nov 07, 2008 3:32 AM GMT
    CitizenSol saidSo. Whats the plan? Is it time for the non-black gay community to become racist and join the KKK?

    No but y,all should come out more. And stop being scary. Just as proud you are to be black. Be as proud to be gay and fight your grounds. Its not the gay wite mans fault your familys and friends are uneducated on the gay issue. It is the gay black community for being scary and hiding in the closet and not being vocal.
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:33 AM GMT
    CitizenSol saidSo. Whats the plan? Is it time for the non-black gay community to become racist and join the KKK?


    The purpose of the KKK is to discriminate against black people based on the sole fact that they are black. My negative opinion stems from being discriminated against by the black people.

    The difference is the KKK are motivated by irrational bias, while I am motivated logically because of irrational bias from a different group of people against me.

    Get it?
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:39 AM GMT
    Jefferey said
    CitizenSol saidSo. Whats the plan? Is it time for the non-black gay community to become racist and join the KKK?

    No but y,all should come out more. And stop being scary. Just as proud you are to be black. Be as proud to be gay and fight your grounds. Its not the gay wite mans fault your familys and friends are uneducated on the gay issue. It is the gay black community for being scary and hiding in the closet and not being vocal.


    I. Am. Out.

    Here's the thing, how can black homosexuals identify with being gay when gays thrusts the image of white, middleclass, all american male as the ideal gay creature? Why would we want to identify with the gay group when so many black gays have reported being hassled in gay white owned businesses? How many times does black gays have to say they feel ignored, that they want to be part of the gay community badly does it take to get some attention?


    And while we're at it...why doesn't the white gay community focus more on all the white groups, congressman, leaders who initiate these anti-gay legislations when they are more of a threat to the gay community?
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:44 AM GMT
    CitizenSol said
    Jefferey said
    CitizenSol saidSo. Whats the plan? Is it time for the non-black gay community to become racist and join the KKK?

    No but y,all should come out more. And stop being scary. Just as proud you are to be black. Be as proud to be gay and fight your grounds. Its not the gay wite mans fault your familys and friends are uneducated on the gay issue. It is the gay black community for being scary and hiding in the closet and not being vocal.


    I. Am. Out.

    Here's the thing, how can black homosexuals identify with being gay when gays thrusts the image of white, middleclass, all american male as the ideal gay creature? Why would we want to identify with the gay group when so many black gays have reported being hassled in gay white owned businesses? How many times does black gays have to say they feel ignored, that they want to be part of the gay community badly does it take to get some attention?


    And while we're at it...why doesn't the white gay community focus more on all the white groups, congressman, leaders who initiate these anti-gay legislations when they are more of a threat to the gay community?

    you know what? Ur Haggard now.Moving on...
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:44 AM GMT
    CitizenSol saidSo. Whats the plan? Is it time for the non-black gay community to become racist and join the KKK?


    Finally someone has said what I knew was coming...

    No, we aren't going to start acting like idiots. Hatred fuels self-destruction and I certainly hope my community is not suicidal.

    Bayard Ruskin had two things against him as he marched, fought, and counseled with Dr. King - he was black and gay. He's had one dream fulfilled, but we have another to keep marching for.
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    Nov 07, 2008 3:48 AM GMT
    Jefferey said
    CitizenSol said
    Jefferey said
    CitizenSol saidSo. Whats the plan? Is it time for the non-black gay community to become racist and join the KKK?

    No but y,all should come out more. And stop being scary. Just as proud you are to be black. Be as proud to be gay and fight your grounds. Its not the gay wite mans fault your familys and friends are uneducated on the gay issue. It is the gay black community for being scary and hiding in the closet and not being vocal.


    I. Am. Out.

    Here's the thing, how can black homosexuals identify with being gay when gays thrusts the image of white, middleclass, all american male as the ideal gay creature? Why would we want to identify with the gay group when so many black gays have reported being hassled in gay white owned businesses? How many times does black gays have to say they feel ignored, that they want to be part of the gay community badly does it take to get some attention?


    And while we're at it...why doesn't the white gay community focus more on all the white groups, congressman, leaders who initiate these anti-gay legislations when they are more of a threat to the gay community?

    you know what? Ur Haggard now.Moving on...


    Fine. Just keep in mind that I've repeatedly answered every question you guys had. But many of mine kept getting IGNORED. Remember that word. Ignored.
  • SkyMiles

    Posts: 963

    Nov 07, 2008 4:00 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidPlease everyone remember, it is not race that makes one prejudiced, but fear, ignorance and hate.


    I just want to second that emotion.
  • groundcombat

    Posts: 945

    Nov 07, 2008 4:00 AM GMT
    Well I'm not surprised. If you could've heard the conversation I had with my mother about this today. Even with a gay son and lesbian daughter, "the demons are hard at work."
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:01 AM GMT
    Here's a question how many black and latino men are out to their families, to their friends? If you are ashamed in your own community then you do not exist.

    I am out to all and one of my best friends is gay and black and out to all. Neither of us is queeny and I have black gay friends who are queeny, who the hell cares? When you stop going on the DL and live proudly then your own community will start to change.

    I can try as a gay Latino but the Black community will respond better to Black gays, so be out and proud in your own community! There's a question, now answer are you out? I am.
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:02 AM GMT
    (to GQ) And you have a very nice lower body. Excuse me while I put you on my hot list. lol.
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:05 AM GMT
    GQguy2 said
    CitizenSol said
    Jefferey said
    CitizenSol said
    Jefferey said
    CitizenSol saidSo. Whats the plan? Is it time for the non-black gay community to become racist and join the KKK?

    No but y,all should come out more. And stop being scary. Just as proud you are to be black. Be as proud to be gay and fight your grounds. Its not the gay wite mans fault your familys and friends are uneducated on the gay issue. It is the gay black community for being scary and hiding in the closet and not being vocal.


    I. Am. Out.

    Here's the thing, how can black homosexuals identify with being gay when gays thrusts the image of white, middleclass, all american male as the ideal gay creature? Why would we want to identify with the gay group when so many black gays have reported being hassled in gay white owned businesses? How many times does black gays have to say they feel ignored, that they want to be part of the gay community badly does it take to get some attention?


    And while we're at it...why doesn't the white gay community focus more on all the white groups, congressman, leaders who initiate these anti-gay legislations when they are more of a threat to the gay community?

    you know what? Ur Haggard now.Moving on...


    Fine. Just keep in mind that I've repeatedly answered every question you guys had. But many of mine kept getting IGNORED. Remember that word. Ignored.


    You know why he didn't answer your questions don't you because he didn't want to admit he is wrong.
    Im not worng about anything and im not saying he is wrong about anything. We were stating our opinions. And I said he was haggard because it got borring repeating our selves. I know what happened in the past I can change that but we r trying to change the future. And as far as the gay community leaving out the blacks YOU R WRONG!! I have lived in Las Vegas, SanDiego, Austin, Tampa, Pheonix, And now Los Angeles. And I have always walked into gay bars with just as many blacks in them as whites. Mostly lebian blacks cause the gay men black r to scary to be black gay and proud! That only seems to be in Los Angeles though! In the other citys the black guys r proud!
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:08 AM GMT
    Chuy2010 saidHere's a question how many black and latino men are out to their families, to their friends? If you are ashamed in your own community then you do not exist.

    I am out to all and one of my best friends is gay and black and out to all. Neither of us is queeny and I have black gay friends who are queeny, who the hell cares? When you stop going on the DL and live proudly then your own community will start to change.

    I can try as a gay Latino but the Black community will respond better to Black gays, so be out and proud in your own community! There's a question, now answer are you out? I am.


    I'm out and proud in my community. I completely agree that is more blacks came out, the black community would start to change but black gay men can't identify with the larger gay community so instead black gay men end up identifying with "same gender loving" or "man who have sex with men (MSM)". Its hard to identify with a community that doesn't care about ethnic issues despite automatically having so many ethnic members.
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:18 AM GMT
    CitizenSol said
    Chuy2010 saidHere's a question how many black and latino men are out to their families, to their friends? If you are ashamed in your own community then you do not exist.

    I am out to all and one of my best friends is gay and black and out to all. Neither of us is queeny and I have black gay friends who are queeny, who the hell cares? When you stop going on the DL and live proudly then your own community will start to change.

    I can try as a gay Latino but the Black community will respond better to Black gays, so be out and proud in your own community! There's a question, now answer are you out? I am.


    I'm out and proud in my community. I completely agree that is more blacks came out, the black community would start to change but black gay men can't identify with the larger gay community so instead black gay men end up identifying with "same gender loving" or "man who have sex with men (MSM)". Its hard to identify with a community that doesn't care about ethnic issues despite automatically having so many ethnic members.


    I didn't say my last post to be mean spirited, but being gay and a white Latino I have always considered myself a minority even if I can pass as white sometimes (until I open my mouth and my accent shows). Most of my friends are black and I have been very involved in the black community since I came to the US in 1989....I challenge all gay black and latino men to come out to one another, and not be on the DL. You will find the most support among your black and latino gay brothers, and when we finally see you (its hard to support you when you're not out to us) the gay community will embrace you.

    We gays are white, black, asian, masculine, feminine, in the middle, twinks, leather daddies, jocks, we are all parts of a big gay spectrum...but we're missing your visibility so join us and fight with us.


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    Nov 07, 2008 4:24 AM GMT
    Hey Chuy. I ready get it, and I'm out fighting. I just wish the larger gay community would reach out to gay blacks more. Just keep that in mind when a gay organization is setting up a conference, or rally, or protest, or magazine cover, or editorial, or story, or porno shoot, or whatever, someone will say "hey, what about gay blacks, why aren't they here?" Because we are here and many of us have tried advancing in the larger gay community and have been shut down.
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:34 AM GMT

    Realistically if you are in this country and you're black AND gay, it makes you a minority WITHIN a minority. So I don't get how some people can just assume that it's hypocritical/ironic/betraying etc for the Prop 8 stats to be what they were. Caucasion gays are a minority within mainstream Caucasion society...Why do some people view Black society as being any different?
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:35 AM GMT
    After thinking about this and reading, I don't think it's solely black gay people's responsibility to educate the narrow-minded 70% of the straight black population. I think it's the entire gay population's burden to do this.
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:36 AM GMT
    maxxtowt said
    Realistically if you are in this country and you're black AND gay, it makes you a minority WITHIN a minority. So I don't get how some people can just assume that it's hypocritical/ironic/betraying etc for the Prop 8 stats to be what they were. Caucasion gays are a minority within mainstream Caucasion society...Why do some people view Black society as being any different?


    You are not a hypocrite because you see it from both sides. This thread isn't targeting black gay people.
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:41 AM GMT
    maxxtowt said
    Realistically if you are in this country and you're black AND gay, it makes you a minority WITHIN a minority. So I don't get how some people can just assume that it's hypocritical/ironic/betraying etc for the Prop 8 stats to be what they were. Caucasion gays are a minority within mainstream Caucasion society...Why do some people view Black society as being any different?


    The Associate Dean for the College of Science and Engineering at San Francisco State University is black, and a good friend of mine. She is as upset as any gay man about Prop 8. She told me that the flyer that was mailed to many voters was obviously targeting black voters....had many prominent black ministers advocating a Yes on 8 vote.

    See, I dont' see this as a racial issue at all. But a sort of cultural issue in that fundamentalism is still the Christianity of choice for many African American people. Just like the staunch Morons...oh, sorry, Mormons, and Catholic caucasians were piled on the Yes on 8 train, so too were the highly indoctrinated (as are the Mormons and Cathoics) African American church goers.

    So, this really is an issue of religion NOT race. So I think it would be important for the rhetoric to be toned down about this.

    Lisa also mentioned a study (don't know the source) that showed that the argument made to black fundamentalists that suggested a parallel of the struggle of gay men and African American struggle for equality does not garner any support. To many people that she knows, it still is a matter of religion. And, folks, we've had lots of examples of how blind staunch fundamentalist Christians are....

    John
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:45 AM GMT
    Disclaimer:
    NOT finger pointing. Can one consciously support discrimination while being the object of discrimination?

    ~~~
    The fact that Latino and African American voters turned out in droves to vote in favor of Proposition 8 sends a mixed message.

    You have a group of people who've been discriminated against for centuries, yet now they're utilizing an acquired CIVIL right (voting) to prevent another marginalized group from having access to rights...

    What do you make of it?
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:46 AM GMT
    Im just very jaded by this and I agree I think it is more a fundamentalist religious problem, which happens to be larger in black and latino groups. But let's not forget the mormons who really went out of their way to help here. way to go, now we can be less of a people, just what Jesus would do!icon_twisted.gif

    That said Prop 8 cannot undo how happy I am Obama won and how proud I am to be an American citizen, even though Im less of a citizen than the rest of America.... icon_sad.gif
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:47 AM GMT
    ucla_matta saidDisclaimer:
    NOT finger pointing. Can one consciously support discrimination while being the object of discrimination?

    ~~~
    The fact that Latino and African American voters turned out in droves to vote in favor of Proposition 8 sends a mixed message.

    You have a group of people who've been discriminated against for centuries, yet now they're utilizing an acquired CIVIL right (voting) to prevent another marginalized group from having access to rights...

    What do you make of it?


    Read all of the above.
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:49 AM GMT
    If you're a Black or Latino and you're a Christian, you may tend to hold to you're religious beliefs by denouncing homosexuality b/c of the Bible...so yes
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:51 AM GMT
    Chuy2010 saidIm just very jaded by this and I agree I think it is more a fundamentalist religious problem, which happens to be larger in black and latino groups. But let's not forget the mormons who really went out of their way to help here. way to go, now we can be less of a people, just what Jesus would do!


    I think this quote accurately sums up all of the reasons why so many people voted yes on Prop 8.

    icon_smile.gif
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    Nov 07, 2008 4:53 AM GMT
    maxxtowt saidIf you're a Black or Latino and you're a Christian, you may tend to hold to you're religious beliefs by denouncing homosexuality b/c of the Bible...so yes


    Fundamentalist Christian, I'd agree. Other less strident Christians have been more accepting. Just pointing that out since I think we agree.

    This is not a race issue, but a question of idiotic (sorry) fundamentalism overwhelming logic.
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    Nov 07, 2008 5:10 AM GMT
    Prop 8 really brought a bittersweet twist to Obama's victory.

    C'est la vie.