Prop 8: White Bias and Blaming the Black Community?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 6:19 AM GMT
    waterloonicetop said
    You must admit though that the premise of thinking you are always the victim yet failing to put up representative numbers is a problem for any subgroup that identifies themselves as such.


    Hmm, so you mean to say that African Americans (I can safety assume you are talking about Black Americans), don't put up the same test scores, income levels, employment numbers, etc. as Asian people and yet continue to complain about being a victim. You feel that something is amiss about that yes? I'll just say that your ignorance of African American society is GLARINGLY obvious. You are making statements from a complete outsider's perspective. Not that there is anything wrong with that of course, but you fail to realize many important aspects as to why you don't see these "representative numbers" (at least not here in America).

    Well, first of all, a vast majority of the problems stem from the society black children are raised in. This has a direct correlation to the income level of the childrens parents. Their parents cannot afford to live in the afluent neighborhoods that many Caucasian and Asian families riside in. In lower income societies, there tends to be more crime, lower funded education, and far fewer opportunities for increasing one's wealth.

    "They [asians] are becoming the master race due to education. ( which is why i date them)Poor,rich, middle class, language rich or poor, they are doing the time and risking the loan money. UnSurprisingly they are not represented as frequently in prison."

    That statement is atrocious first and foremost. Black people, more specifically black men, are inducted into criminal activities far earlier than most other ethnicity (save for Mexican Americans.. a different topic completely). This is once again due to where they are raised and the opportunities that society has to offer. So what you may want to say at this point is "Well there are many people that start from nothing and work towards having it all." I'll be the first to tell you that black parents want nothing more than their children to succeed. But when you are raised in a society that offers little to accomplish, it is VERY easy to fall into the trap of using crime as a means to an end. And THAT is why you see many more black men in prison than other ethnicities.

    Saying that one should go out and fight the odds and make something of themselves is easier said than done. Believe me there are plenty of Black people truly making strides in this world. But for the vast majority, they live in an indifferent and unforgiving society. America still views Black society with a slight air of negativity and a more or less condescending attitude.

    So I guess I should end this by saying that what I have just relayed to you is COMPLETELY of my own opinion based on what I've seen and experienced.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 6:35 AM GMT
    TheBizMan said^ Get those tits out of here!


    Though, they obviously bring the boys to the yard.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 7:36 AM GMT
    waterloonicetop said


    So again as an outsider i have already seen the solution (not specifically american blacks, but women too say, even gays).


    So as a non- breeder,


    Anybody can see the solution. Reaching that solution is not as easy as one might hope. But being critical of those stuck in that situation, one of perpetual poverty and limited education, is far too easy.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 8:12 AM GMT
    I could sit here and delve into all sorts of topics about how you think of minorities (which is growing increasingly more alarming to me as you post) and refute you night and day. But I won't. It's not my job to get through to you. I'm done. Not to mention how far removed this conversation is from the OP.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 8:26 AM GMT
    waterloonicetop said
    So as a non- breeder i am confident saying, if your offspring are guaranteed to fail, dont breed. It increases your income and chance of success.


    It's understandable to use that logic, but you forget that people do not "breed" not inspite of their poor financial situation, but rather because of it. If you look at birth rates, there's a strong correlation between income levels and child bearing: poor women are not only more likely to have more children, they are likely to have kids at younger ages and without a father.

    Why? Hint: It's not because they're stupid. It's because for young women from poorer neighborhoods, there isn't much else for them but motherhood. What are they going to do - further themselves through college education? But they're poor - that's unlikely to happen.

    Conversely, why are childbearing rates declining among middle/upper middle women? An important reason is the access to opportunities. There's no reason for them to "drop-out" to have kids when they have the opportunity to further their career goals.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 8:34 AM GMT
    waterloonicetop said
    TheBizMan saidI could sit here and delve into all sorts of topics about how you think of minorities (which is growing increasingly more alarming to me as you post) and refute you night and day. But I won't. It's not my job to get through to you. I'm done. Not to mention how far removed this conversation is from the OP.


    There are successful traits ( education ) and unsuccessful ones ( non education). Everything else is an excuse. Being poor is just one of many. Being poor i should know. Humans are humans dont take crap from anyone who tells you differently.


    "The politics of responsibility is doomed to fail - not because there is something wrong with [insert category of people], but because there is nothing special about them. They are merely human" (Alexander 2010 - The New Jim Crow ).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 1:44 PM GMT
    here goes.This thread was 08 when George Bush was President....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 2:06 PM GMT
    Anyone who refers to any group as a "master race" arouses my suspicion. icon_neutral.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 2:18 PM GMT
    waterloonicetop said
    DEKIRUMAN said
    waterloonicetop saidJust one thing....are the unbiased black dudes running out to fulfill their quota of applying for police, lawyer, judge, and prison guard jobs? And making the effort educationally to do so? My university is 90% asians and eastern europeans. They are becoming the master race due to education. ( which is why i date them)Poor,rich, middle class, language rich or poor, they are doing the time and risking the loan money. UnSurprisingly they are not represented as frequently in prison.


    Don't even know you but...... I am better looking than you, and was accepted at

    Princeton
    Dartmouth
    UC Berkeley
    Swarthmore
    U Chicago
    Carnegie Mellon

    So I find it hilarious that you would consider me unable to date you seeing as how I kick your ass in pretty much every area of life.

    .....oh and that big penis that you go on about on your profile, I probably gotcha beat there too icon_wink.gif


    Asians include arabs. icon_smile.gif so you may not be the best case example.

    Not to get into a pissing contest i could have gotten into any of those schools too, but i stayed in canada, and went to the best school here.

    As far as your admittedly pretty cock, I'm a top so it's just kinda scary. Biz man is hot too, so what?

    You must admit though that the premise of anyone thinking are always the victim yet failing to put up representative numbers is a problem for any subgroup that identifies themselves as such. By the way i am neither asian nor eastern european, so hardly a nod for my own wellbeing in a darwinian system. Just trying to corrupt the winners while we can still sneak in. ;)





    As far as what i date, my whole side of town is practically asian or eastern european in the age range i am able to attract, (my town meaning within 5 miles of me since i live beside uw, and any house not student occupied is owned by RIM.)

    Oh ya, and they have hot bubble butts and for the most part, uncut cocks the latter lacking on most black guys, even if you could find one around here. The vast majority of black kids around here are also immigrants too which means they are all muslims, or worse from Toronto, neither of which are good choices to date. Remember i live in Canada we dont have nearly the race issues you have.



    Did you really just assert that I am doing well in life because of my Arab genes. Sorry but I'm getting out my racist stamp and stamping you a racist.

    My ENTIRE FAMILY on both sides has been educated all the way back to my grandmothers generation. My black ancestors had obtained college degrees before my Arab relatives even arrived in the united states. Now you could argue that it was cultural, but it would be hard seeing as how all of the Arab genes came from my father who died when I was little. I am successful because my college educated black grandparents, taught my college educated mother, how to make me successful.

    If you think eastern Europeans fare any better under the condition of poverty, you've obviously not heard of the krokodil epidemic that is sweeping through Russia at this very moment. Curtail your ignorance.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 4:06 PM GMT
    fight fight fight!

    I think everyone should LEARN not to make such broad assumptions and then tell it to the world, some people just want to argue I think.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 9:14 PM GMT
    (Deep breath). I think that the problem with gay men in particular is that...there isn't a 'white ideal' as in racism as much as there's this unrealistic fantasy of we are all rich, very highly educated, we're better than everyone else (even each other) and we don't want to talk to the 'little people' out there. And yes, I can see why low-income people don't like us: in major cities we have been known to beautify and gentrify close-to-downtown neighborhoods, jack up rents/housing prices, and drive those who've lived there for 40-50 years out. I think there is definitely a classism problem that exists within gay men - we only want to be seen with and around important and rich gay men, and have absolutely no interest in those without the post-doctorate, or without the nice car or $1000 watch...I don't see (as much) exclusion by race as I do by class. Very well-off gay men are focused on marriage equality. Gay men who are just surviving are more concerned about HIV, their insurance coverage, thoughts of being homeless, etc.

    As far as Prop 8 goes, we can talk about bias all we want, but the vote tallies speak for themselves. Gay men are generally not liked by non-white, miseducated people because their culture, particularly in the last few decades, is one of macho attitudes, sex with many women, completely ignoring their duties as a father, and stealing/robbing/using violence and intimidation to get what they want. Meanwhile, gay men (who are often very educated, earn a handsome living, pay their own way and give to charities) are seen from all directions as evil predators, yet those who are uneducated are unaware that it's OUR money that pays for these people's programs to feed their kids, live in public housing and pretty much do nothing. If they really dislike us as much as they claim, then they need to start their own general assistance, food stamp and child care programs with their own money, and see how long they'd last without our help. Ungrateful people who continue to badmouth me for being gay but apparently my money is good enough for them? Nope. Go starve and let your bastard kids starve too. Tough shit.

    Again though, we need to recognize that all groups in society that are fighting for something need to see and support each other - so long as that respect is there to begin with. Gay people need to be involved when other groups - who've stood by us - are demonstrating. It really looks bad when we are completely into marriage rights when 1) very few gay men are even meeting anyone; those who have aren't having much luck sustaining a lasting relationship, and 2) gay marriage is not a life/death issue. Homeless GLBT folks, HIV+ gay people who're losing jobs and insurance, and gay people, usually being single adults with no kids, have a very hard time getting financial assistance, food stamps or subsidized housing. We are like a rich school district that doesn't want to admit their students struggle with drug abuse or something - the gay community DOES have those who are homeless, mentally ill, working minimum wage, struggling with addiction and isolation, and worst of all we are plagued with mistrust - that's where it 'isn't getting better'. We have two classes of gay people now - those with money, who get to live in the larger, progressive gay cities where the cost of housing in the gay areas is out of the question for the others, who now live in their hometowns or smaller cities, because now they can't afford to venture out to the larger cities to meet anyone and be involved in the GLBT community. So we're up against a lot. Again, I haven't seen it racially, but I definitely see it economically. As gay men, we definitely are able to buy our way out of dealing with other gay people we don't see as 'worthy enough' to talk to. And that's really sad.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 03, 2013 9:15 PM GMT
    shit this is 5 years old

    let it die!

    Just start a new thread damnit!
  • AllAmericanJo...

    Posts: 4271

    Jan 04, 2013 7:24 AM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN saidAnyone who refers to any group as a "master race" arouses my suspicion. icon_neutral.gif


    Let's face it: Jews are the master race.

    And gay Jewish boys are ridiculously hot. #justsayin
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 7:04 PM GMT
    To the people duped in 2018 to open and then comment on this thread. HELLO! And thank you for President Hillary! icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 7:36 PM GMT
    The gay community and white liberals alike tend to enjoy representing "white male rednecks" as being the big obstacle to progress, when really, it's all about people being religious and bigoted regardless of racial background. The more people recognize this the more we'll be able to effectively get the message out and win support for our cause.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 8:07 PM GMT
    I'm honestly disguested with the article. I find it hilarious how Blacks always find some way to put the blame on just white people.
    I'm sorry but it wasn't blacks who ended slavery in America it was a White President.
    The pure stupidity of some people is utterly applauling (bah that word looks wrong but i'm not in the mood to correct myself).
    There were so many things wrong in that article that really needed to be addressed. But some how I doubt anyone addressed them at the time.
    After reading it I have lot to say, but god forbid people should think me racist cause I don't see the same way as her
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 8:36 PM GMT
    Oh well, mock. At least you tried! icon_lol.gif

    And again, hello people from the FUTURE!

    Now if you'll excuse me, there's a thread about Mein Kampf somewhere that I MUST put my two cents into!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 8:38 PM GMT
    "A thread correcting people about the blame errantly centered on African-Americans for Prop 8 becomes a thread blaming African-Americans for ((insert X))." The Story at 11! icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 8:41 PM GMT
    For those who missed it when the author stated in 5 years ago.

    And in the end, black voters in California voted against gay marriage by more than 2 to 1.

    Sorry it wasn't 9-to-1. But no other race fell along those lines either. Carry On!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 8:50 PM GMT
    http://www.gaylesbiantimes.com/?id=13832

    Gay & Lesbian Times Way Back in 2009According to the study, more than 70 percent of voters polled who were Republican, identified themselves as conservative, or who attended religious services at least weekly supported Proposition 8. Conversely, 70 percent or more of voters who were Democrat, identified themselves as liberal, or who rarely attended religious services opposed the measure. More than two-thirds (67 percent) of voters 65 or older supported Proposition 8, while majorities under 65 opposed the marriage ban.

    After taking into account the religious service attendance, support for Proposition 8 among African Americans and Latinos was not significantly different than other groups.


    That was 4 years ago. Of course, the point will sail right over people's heads in 2018, too!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 9:08 PM GMT
    SovereignNemesis saidI'm honestly disguested with the article. I find it hilarious how Blacks always find some way to put the blame on just white people.
    I'm sorry but it wasn't blacks who ended slavery in America it was a White President.
    The pure stupidity of some people is utterly applauling (bah that word looks wrong but i'm not in the mood to correct myself).
    There were so many things wrong in that article that really needed to be addressed. But some how I doubt anyone addressed them at the time.
    After reading it I have lot to say, but god forbid people should think me racist cause I don't see the same way as her

    If you can foresee yourself coming off racist then you might just be... It's not that hard to curtail your argument in a fashion that is not prejudiced if you care to put the effort in.

    Btw when you say "Blacks" do you mean coloring crayons or people? Because if you meant people, maybe you should specify... Otherwise you already sound innately prejudice
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 9:15 PM GMT
    mock got it right when he says the problem is religion and not race!

    Conservatives get it wrong, too. But many like NOM hope it's true to drive wedges between us. And many liberals play right along!

    http://www.letcaliforniaring.org/site/c.ltJTJ6MQIuE/b.4863891/k.35FC/Driving_Factors_of_Prop_8_Vote.htm

    http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/issues/egan_sherrill_prop8_1_6_09.pdf
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 9:22 PM GMT
    Sorry, off topic

    I just hate the term "African American". It's silly. If such was really required to have a sense of identity then every white american should have some label such as "British-American" icon_rolleyes.gif

    I have more claim to any label with "African" in it than many (possibly most) "African-Americans" and yet there is many an activist who would snipe me for saying so.

    If anything it implies said "African-Americans" are out of place in America, and promotes segregation. Personally I would be extremely offended if I was called a "European-African" because Africa is where I was born and raised and I am African. Nothing else. Being black and born in America makes you American. Nothing else. I'm not saying throw your heritage away, but why should it define who you are? To me the idea that black american's are not just considered american is what causes difficulty accepting and being accepted by the community.

    Anyways, that's my 2 cents.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 07, 2013 9:22 PM GMT
    And for those who believe Miss Cannick is a charter member of the Blame Whitey Party, enjoy:

    http://www.dailynews.com/ci_20045356

    Jasmyne E. CannickSo while John and Ken were undeniably wrong in using the words "crack ho" to describe Whitney Houston, the reality is that they are two white guys on the radio in Los Angeles who have a majority conservative white audience. And even if they used the word "ho" every day to describe black women, they still wouldn't come close to the damage that's already been done and continues to be done on a daily basis in the black community.

    Black children and teenagers are not listening to KFI, but they are listening to Mommy and Daddy, watching MTV and BET, and listening music that says much worse than "crack ho."

    After the incident KFI's John Kobylt said in a statement, "We made a mistake, and we accept the station's decision. We used language that was inappropriate, and we sincerely apologize to our listeners and to the family of Ms. Houston."

    When was the last time a rapper apologized for using the word "ho," "bitch" or even "niggas"?

    Exactly.