Trans fats: FDA moves to reduce artery-clogger trans fats in processed foods

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 12, 2013 2:30 AM GMT
    tantiboh said
    HottJoe said
    One thing you're overlooking entirely is that criminalizing cigarettes/tobacco will just put those items on the black market. People will break the law to have tobacco. That scenario wouldn't happen with trans fat. Sorry to the companies who put poison in our food supply. If they need to get shut down, then they need to get shut down. No one wants to eat that shit. Besides, I think you're being overly dramatic. The food industry will manage.


    Oh, I think there are a lot of people who would embrace a life of crime to get their twinkie fix.

    It's not just in Twinkies. It's in a lot of dinner food.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 12, 2013 2:33 AM GMT
    tantiboh said
    VillageMike said

    Tax is only a halfway measure.

    The problem is, the for-profit food industry. Food, like health care, is a basic necessity. It should not be left up to a for-profit group of mega-companies.

    Just like we should have single-payer government run health care, we should have a government grown / created / produced / distributed food chain.

    I don't understand why people don't get this.


    People do get it. They just don't want to starve.

    Remember the good ol' days of the Soviet Union? All that government grown / created / produced / distributed food chain. It's no wonder we defeated those fat lardasses.

    So if we tell them not to put razor blades in raison brand are we like Russia? Give me a break. These food manufacturers are putting poison in the food supply. There's no question it should be illegal.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 2:34 AM GMT
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 2:47 AM GMT
    The entire "big food" industry needs to be declared illegal. Is there any question as to why the cancer rates are so high now? It's because of the poison these companies are putting in the food. The only way we can trust our food supply is by having the government take over the farming and production of food, from the fields to the shelves.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 2:49 AM GMT
    Food manufacturers represent God Almighty. They are here only to serve your good health.

    How dare the FDA impede their noble mission.

    Huh, is this the argument?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 4:51 AM GMT
    VillageMike said
    tantiboh said
    metta8 saidWell, I like the idea of being able to go to a restaurant and not having to eat that stuff.


    Then that's a perfect opportunity for capitalism to swoop in and meet your consumer demand for healthier options (which many have). You don't need the federal overlords to accomplish that.


    But there are many people who do not know about these foods that are dangerous. The government must ban these ingredients.


    That's an awfully heavy-handed slippery slope, my friend.

    There are many people who don't know about the dangers of acetaminophen overdose. The government must ban it.

    There are many people who don't know about the dangers of excessive chocolate consumption. The government must ban it.

    There are many people who don't know about the dangers of skiing. The government must ban it.

    There are many people who don't know about the dangers of gay sex. The government must ban it.

    Personal responsibility is a key ingredient in any healthy society. That includes the responsibility to educate yourself about your consumption and behaviors and to accept the risks they entail.

    But the fact that a food is dangerous in excess doesn't mean that I have a right to force you to avoid it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 4:54 AM GMT
    HottJoe said
    tantiboh said
    metta8 saidWell, I like the idea of being able to go to a restaurant and not having to eat that stuff.


    Then that's a perfect opportunity for capitalism to swoop in and meet your consumer demand for healthier options (which many have). You don't need the federal overlords to accomplish that.

    McDonalds uses Trans Fat. People aren't going to boycott McDonalds. They just need to stop using Trans Fat, either voluntarily or by law.


    See, your argument breaks down here.

    McDonald's is in the business of maximizing its profit, not of killing its customers.

    The public's eating habits have changed in recent years. In order to meet that demand and maximize their profits, McDonald's has already greatly increased the healthiness and nutritional value of their menu.

    The free market worked. The "Evil Corporation"... changed its ways. Because their customers demanded it.

    But if you wanted to walk in there and order a big ol' box of delicious, fattening fries, why should I have the right to stop you from making that choice?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 4:58 AM GMT
    VillageMike saidThe entire "big food" industry needs to be declared illegal. Is there any question as to why the cancer rates are so high now? It's because of the poison these companies are putting in the food. The only way we can trust our food supply is by having the government take over the farming and production of food, from the fields to the shelves.


    Please cite your source for these cancer statistics. Until such time as you do, I'll assume this information is extracted from your rectum.

    We just watched a government program crash and burn with Obamacare and Healthcare.gov. The entire system is only going to get worse as this drama unfolds. Do you, at this juncture, really trust an inefficient, market-distorting force such as the government to effectively administer something a gigantic and fundamental as the food supply?

    Sorry, I can't follow you there. We've seen the result of your thinking throughout history. It's called famine and mass starvation. See Stalin and Mao for instructive examples.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 5:00 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidIf you want terrifying stories about lack of government supervision over the food supplies, look no further than China. Baby food manufacturers cause death of many babies by using a chemical that appears to provide the nutrients that are supposed to be in there but turned out to be deadly poisoned to babies.


    Excuse me, but you might want to brush up on your global civics. China is a communist nation. The government owns and controls all means of production and distribution.

    Yet there is no nation on earth with more poison and environmental damage than China.

    Please make your arguments more difficult to defeat in the future.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 5:01 AM GMT
    Lifter4ever saidFood manufacturers represent God Almighty. They are here only to serve your good health.

    How dare the FDA impede their noble mission.

    Huh, is this the argument?


    No. You've presented a straw man argument.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 5:02 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidYou can choose to live in a cave but by the way the highways and roads that lead you there were engineered with government employees. And that car that you drive that does not blow up in flame? It's the regulations that forbid cars from blowing up burning people inside.


    Who is against well-conceived and well-managed public works? Who is against sensible regulations and reasonable consumer protections?

    You're using straw man arguments as well.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 5:06 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidYou don't know what you are saying. They are communist in name only. Their love of capitalism allows businesses to run unchecked hence some of these baby food businesses are killing babies to make a quick profit and get out before they can be prosecuted. IF you love no regulation government, please move to China. They would love you there.

    tantiboh said
    woodsmen saidIf you want terrifying stories about lack of government supervision over the food supplies, look no further than China. Baby food manufacturers cause death of many babies by using a chemical that appears to provide the nutrients that are supposed to be in there but turned out to be deadly poisoned to babies.


    Excuse me, but you might want to brush up on your global civics. China is a communist nation. The government owns and controls all means of production and distribution.

    Yet there is no nation on earth with more poison and environmental damage than China.

    Please make your arguments more difficult to defeat in the future.


    Let's accept your premise: China is communist in name only.

    They are still completely totalitarian. They are big government run amok. They are the natural result of the kind of government expansion that liberals and socialists pursue. Communist or not, they are still a centrally planned economy.

    Yet there is no nation on earth with more poison and environmental damage than China. And a whole lot of starvation, I might add.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 5:08 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidAnd by the way, you are expressing your views of anarchy on the internet made possible by DARPA, a government agency.


    Anarchy = another straw man.

    Come on, people. How about making some kind of effort to present an argument without these logical fallacies?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 5:11 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidYour reasoning is circular. You have accepted no premise but your own.


    Please describe the circularity of the following reasoning:

    I do not have the right to tell you how to live. My right to do so does not expand simply because I'm in the majority or in power.

    All my other arguments are in support of the idea that disagreement with the above statement has tragic and disastrous consequences.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 5:12 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidYou do not want a government created by Washington, engineered by Jefferson, and preserved by Lincoln. Get out of our country.


    You are not advocating that government. You are advocating a style of government practiced by Stalin, Mao, Chavez, et al.

    That you do not realize this is one of the more alarming things I've observed in some time.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 7:57 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidYou want no government that helps this country to overcome the evil that is out there in the world.

    tantiboh said
    woodsmen saidYou do not want a government created by Washington, engineered by Jefferson, and preserved by Lincoln. Get out of our country.


    You are not advocating that government. You are advocating a style of government practiced by Stalin, Mao, Chavez, et al.

    That you do not realize this is one of the more alarming things I've observed in some time.


    On the contrary, I want a government that sees that as its only role.

    But freedom to choose, even stupidly, is not an evil.

    In the vision of our founders, the government's proper role is to protect the liberty of its citizens against those who would rob them of it, foreign or domestic. Our problem today is that the government itself has become the major force that is robbing us of liberty. That is a corruption of the founders' vision.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 12, 2013 9:57 AM GMT
    tantiboh said
    woodsmen saidYou do not want a government created by Washington, engineered by Jefferson, and preserved by Lincoln. Get out of our country.


    You are not advocating that government. You are advocating a style of government practiced by Stalin, Mao, Chavez, et al.

    That you do not realize this is one of the more alarming things I've observed in some time.

    Right. The possibility of a law stopping food manufacturers from poisoning the food supply IS the most alarming thing in the world today. Companies should be free to poison customers. It's not like unfettered industry caused global warming. People who like global warming CHOSE it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 12:48 PM GMT
    I wonder if the govt will next start banning the least healthy foods we eat. After all, eating them will cost more in healthcare due to their unhealthy side effects. So no more doughnuts, ice cream, and pies. Homer Simpson says 'D'oh',.

    When the Obamacare thing started up, I told anyone who would listen that that will be one of its consequences. I still laugh seeing the stories of people not realizing how the new healthcare law is adversely affecting them. Just wit until they start getting fined for not having healthcare. There will be mass demonstrations of people saying, "This isn't what I expected. I thought I was getting free healthcare." The gig is up.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 12:52 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    tantiboh said
    woodsmen saidYou do not want a government created by Washington, engineered by Jefferson, and preserved by Lincoln. Get out of our country.


    You are not advocating that government. You are advocating a style of government practiced by Stalin, Mao, Chavez, et al.

    That you do not realize this is one of the more alarming things I've observed in some time.

    Right. The possibility of a law stopping food manufacturers from poisoning the food supply IS the most alarming thing in the world today. Companies should be free to poison customers. It's not like unfettered industry caused global warming. People who like global warming CHOSE it.


    There have been a number of stories by Scientists totally debunking Global Warming so don't bring that up. It's mostly cyclical weather going back ages and men are not responsible for most, if not all, of it. Heck, volcanic ash can cause it. Why the mass media doesn't report this is idiotic.
  • metta

    Posts: 54952

    Nov 12, 2013 4:50 PM GMT
    ^
    so sad to see how people get mislead. And to call the facts idiotic. Well, I guess it just goes to show you how polarized we are and how easy it is to mislead people by repeating lies so often that a large enough percentage of people will believe them. Many corporations depend on misleading people to help maximize their profits. And the correct term is Climate Change, not Global Warming.

    The facts speak for themselves:


    Consensus: 97% of climate scientists agree

    http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus

    Is there a scientific consensus on global warming?

    Link to this page
    What the science says...
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 5:03 PM GMT
    metta8 said^
    so sad to see how people get mislead. And to call the facts idiotic. Well, I guess it just goes to show you how polarized we are and how easy it is to mislead people by repeating lies so often that a large enough percentage of people will believe them. Many corporations depend on misleading people to help maximize their profits. And the correct term is Climate Change, not Global Warming.

    The facts speak for themselves:


    Consensus: 97% of climate scientists agree

    http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus

    Is there a scientific consensus on global warming?

    Link to this page
    What the science says...
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm



    The only way we are going to survive as a civilization is for the these for-profit entities to be outlawed. They have shown that they are bad in the following areas:

    Health care

    Food production

    Environmental damage

    Having the government take over each of these vital areas of human activity will result in a better quality of life for all and not just the very rich. Fortunately the USA is almost there with the government takeover of health care and millions of people are already benefitting from it.
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1506

    Nov 12, 2013 5:27 PM GMT
    I think they are already banned in Europe.

    Ive been followin this thread with interest, especially the more conservative comments re "Its freedom to chose what I eat".

    Mowever, is it"freedom",is it actually OK for big food companies to poison consumers? Is it their right to do that? I suspect not. Especially when the average person in the probably has little understanding of what goes into their food. Let alone understand the deliberately misleading food labelling. In the UK its terrible "Low Fat" doesnt mean its low fat, it just means it lower in fat that the "regular" product. Same with low anything..........Which is the problem with a mostly voluntary code and getting business to regular itself (as if that has ever worked). And in these days of tight pockets, even if they do these days can't afford to eat green. Or well.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 12, 2013 5:55 PM GMT
    Talking to a conservative is more painful than slamming your head into a brick wall. Humanity is fucked.icon_confused.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 9:33 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidTalking to a conservative is more painful than slamming your head into a brick wall. Humanity is fucked.icon_confused.gif


    Now that's being overly dramatic! icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 12, 2013 9:35 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidTalking to a conservative is more painful than slamming your head into a brick wall. Humanity is fucked.icon_confused.gif


    lol true that