48 year old man infects 17 year old with HIV.

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    Dec 17, 2008 3:34 AM GMT
    GuiltyGear saidStill, something might be happening soon that will take me out of the scene for the next 10 to 20, I'll reveal information as it becomes relevant in pertinence to this issue.

    Ooh, ooh, I know. You've been training with NASA and you've been picked for the first manned mission to Mars??? icon_smile.gif
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    Dec 17, 2008 4:06 AM GMT
    OH MY GOD!!! It can only be that.....
  • dfrourke

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    Dec 17, 2008 4:06 AM GMT
    chuckystud3 saidNo hatred here. Just wondering why folks with HIV think it's o.k. to be so sefl-indulgent. Why is it that so many choose to ignore virtue / rising to the higher level? Gosh. That's how they got it in the first place, in the me,me,me concept of life.


    OK, can we STOP with the generalizations and using language that lumps everyone together...it just makes you sound small minded and ignorant - which I am certain at your age and experience level on the planet - you're not.

    Your question can be elaborated to the countless people who come in to the office 'sick as a dog' for whatever reason and infect the rest of the office...

    *sigh*

    ...back to the article...

    Of course, this situation is awful and amazingly unfortunate. I did think this statement illustrated the complex paradox surrounding this situation:

    "Renter also questioned how society can insist that an HIV-positive person inform others, while not insisting that people practice safe sex. In this case, both teenagers acknowledged they had unprotected sex with Moore."

    I can't figure out from the article what the police arrested the 48 year old for...did anyone catch it?

    - David
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    Dec 17, 2008 4:16 AM GMT
    I don't have sex anymore. It's a choice i've made. I'm not doing anything with anyone unless we are dating. I've gone 5 months.. I'll make out with guys but thats it. It's just not worth it.

    If you're going to have reckless sex you mind aswell smoke.. its basically the same game of risks.
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    Dec 17, 2008 4:20 AM GMT
    Burn Him!!! How dare he!

    I'm borderline on whether there SHOULD be a law, as any idiot that goes for it after knowing could file that charge if things go awry, but it's still disgusting!!!!!!!

    I'm from Texas, originally, and while I don't condone violence, I remember a story of a man who basically held my mother hostage after she ended their relationship. My grandfather paid a hefty sum to get him out of her life. He did some unmentionable things to her and got away with it because he was a cop, a free pass in west Texas. Years later, his last victim's father shot him dead in broad daylight in front of the local courthouse. I don't condone those actions, but he sure as hell deserved it - so does this guy!

    Don't forget though, the kid should've demanded a condom. It's a choice probably made in a split second, that will affect the rest of his life.
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    Dec 17, 2008 4:42 AM GMT
    dfrourke saidI can't figure out from the article what the police arrested the 48 year old for...did anyone catch it?


    He filmed himself having sex with the 17 year old. While the age of consent is 16 you cannot videotape it until they are 18.
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    Dec 17, 2008 5:12 AM GMT

    I see so many videos online like that:
    some older guy screwing a young guy
    and most of them are bareback! I blame the older guys then because my god, that's perverted: violating nubile young men at their age...and then to do it raw and videotape it, tsk!Tsk!
    Like I said, like twenty yr olds, but hornier!
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    Dec 17, 2008 5:20 AM GMT
    Lots of things are immoral without being illegal. Nothing this 48-year old guy did should be illegal. The idea that the burden of maintaining one's negative HIV status should fall on anyone but the individual in question (the 17-year old, in this case) strikes me as silly. Unless there is *force* involved--or statutory rape--I just don't see how this is a legal issue.

    You want a solution? Raise the age of consent. But if this 17-year-old was at the age of consent (if the society in his state has made that judgment) then that means that he is responsible for his own safety.

    I'm not saying it's right. Heck, infidelity is a good example of something which is not right, but is and ought to be totally legal.
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    Dec 17, 2008 5:22 AM GMT
    Education, education, education, education, education, education.

    And, by the way, education.

    It makes no difference whether the 17-yr old is with an "older man" who should know better, or with another teenager who should know better - that is, should be taught better.

    Education.

    For my money, the guy is a criminal, thoroughly amoral. And criminalizing the knowing transmission of disease is certainly reasonable, though I wouldn't limit it to HIV.

    But it will be far more useful to TEACH about sex; about STDs; about PREVENTION.

    I'm a Nebraska native, Maverick. Do you happen to know what sex ed is taught in Omaha public schools? (I may have to ask my sister.)

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    Dec 17, 2008 5:41 AM GMT
    chuckystud3 saidNo hatred here. Just wondering why folks with HIV think it's o.k. to be so sefl-indulgent. Why is it that so many choose to ignore virtue / rising to the higher level? Gosh. That's how they got it in the first place, in the me,me,me concept of life.


    You're a tiny brained, ignorant. I have a very good friend that has HIV because he was on duty as a police officer and was stabbed by a junky with dirty needles. For some reason I'm not seeing this whole "me, me, me" thing since he's a cop risking his life for others.
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    Dec 17, 2008 5:47 AM GMT
    Sean_85 saidI don't have sex anymore. It's a choice i've made. I'm not doing anything with anyone unless we are dating. I've gone 5 months.. I'll make out with guys but thats it. It's just not worth it.

    If you're going to have reckless sex you mind aswell smoke.. its basically the same game of risks.


    Aw, my hero! icon_razz.gif

    Actually, I've done the same for almost a year now. Not even oral. ;( It's not as hard as I thought it would be and definitely has taught me how self-respect is intertwined in the subject. Something I had never understood before.
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    Dec 17, 2008 5:49 AM GMT
    BTChicagoGuy said
    chuckystud3 saidNo hatred here. Just wondering why folks with HIV think it's o.k. to be so sefl-indulgent. Why is it that so many choose to ignore virtue / rising to the higher level? Gosh. That's how they got it in the first place, in the me,me,me concept of life.


    You're a tiny brained, ignorant. I have a very good friend that has HIV because he was on duty as a police officer and was stabbed by a junky with dirty needles. For some reason I'm not seeing this whole "me, me, me" thing since he's a cop risking his life for others.


    Chill man.

    There are some special circumstance cases, but by and large it's just people being stupid/careless/uninformed(wtf, really).
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    Dec 17, 2008 5:53 AM GMT
    RunnerBen said Nothing this 48-year old guy did should be illegal.


    If he knew he had HIV, how about knowingly transmitting a deadly disease?

    RunnerBen said
    But if this 17-year-old was at the age of consent (if the society in his state has made that judgment) then that means that he is responsible for his own safety.


    And the other party, the party with the knowledge of the danger has no responsibility?

    Gee, that's like selling rotting meat then saying it's the customers fault because they were responsible for eating it.
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    Dec 17, 2008 5:59 AM GMT
    looknrnd said
    Sean_85 saidI don't have sex anymore. It's a choice i've made. I'm not doing anything with anyone unless we are dating. I've gone 5 months.. I'll make out with guys but thats it. It's just not worth it.

    If you're going to have reckless sex you mind aswell smoke.. its basically the same game of risks.


    Aw, my hero! icon_razz.gif

    Actually, I've done the same for almost a year now. Not even oral. ;( It's not as hard as I thought it would be and definitely has taught me how self-respect is intertwined in the subject. Something I had never understood before.


    Yeah you get use to it. I was bitter and horny for a while but now i'm over it. It makes me feel good about myself. I respect myself too much to just go off with any guy no matter how hot he is. plus i'm kinda holding out for something serious so when that happens I'll be more than ready.

    It's just nice to know people want you but they can't have you unless there willing too commit. Being a cock tease is fun.

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    Dec 17, 2008 6:20 AM GMT
    This notion of personal responsability is an interesting one. I think it's inaccurate to assume that all citizens have equal access to power and information - or have developed the necessary decision-making skills that allow them to 'take responsibility'.

    A person who has experienced abuse and neglect, discrimination or faulty learning, is at high risk for all forms of infection. They have never been taken care of adquately and have often failed to learn to take care of themselves. It's no accident that HIV has thrived among those of us who are members of oppressed and disadvantaged groups - the poor, the gay, the abused, women, aboriginals etc.

    It has also been pointed out that immaturity at any age can interfere with making good decisions about personal health. Furhermore, for many sex is a form of affirmation, affection, obligation - who knows? Those in the sex trade will sometimes go condomless for money. Drugs and alcohol are known to make people less able to make good decisions (and how many one night stands occur after a night at the bar?). And I'm sure we can think of many other factors that impact on people's ability to 'just use a condom' every time.

    I know some of you will haul out the argument that we are all responsible regardless - and to take risks is lazy, stupid, selfish etc. and a crime so horrific it deserves the electric chair. But this argument is too simplistic and doesn't begin to comprehend the incredibly complex ways in which human beings make decisions. We are so quick to leap to judgement and to condemn anyone who commits the crime of being human. The reality is that whole new generations of young, gay men are at risk and we need to figure out creative and compassionate ways to get the safe-sex message across.

    And demonizing those guys in our community who have got infected is cruel and ridiculous. Who among us hasn't made a faulty decision at some point that could have caused us harm? When last did you try to get your toast out of the toaster by sticking a fork in it? Or have your hairdryer on in front of a basin of water? Or reverse your car without looking? Or forgetting to put your seatbelt on? If you had got burnt, electrocuted, disabled or whatever are you 'responsible' for your actions and therefore worthy only of contempt?

    The quick fix response of 'let's make a law' is often a poorly disguised revenge impulse. The need to affix blame is also rampant. At the last International AIDS conference in Mexico City many speakers on the topic of Criminalizing HIV gave examples from around the world of how these laws have been horribly abused and punished scores of people who in no way were 'deliberately infecting' others. As much as it would make it easier the world is not neatly divided into good, wise, responsible citizens (us) and ruthless, antisocial degenerates (them).

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    Dec 17, 2008 6:21 AM GMT
    Buckwheet said
    Chill man.

    There are some special circumstance cases, but by and large it's just people being stupid/careless/uninformed(wtf, really).


    So when people make the generalization that all gay people are perverts or pedophiles, you're OK with that too? I mean, by and large it is just people being stupid and uninformed.

    My biggest issue with that is the fact that he doesn't know what an HIV+ persons story is and yet already generalizing and treating them like scum. Not only that but its taking a holier than thou attitude about it. Never make a mistake or wrong choice in your life and you can have that sort of attitude.
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    Dec 17, 2008 6:26 AM GMT
    icon_eek.gif

    Wow, that poor kid. He's not even near the prime of his life and he has to deal with that shit for the rest of his life. Since that kid was only 17, I can understand that he didn't insist on a condom because he was either naive or uneducated, but being 48, the older man should've informed him about is HIV. If he were here right now, I'd beat him down with an oar!



    I'm also kinda shocked that 16 is the legal age in Nebraska. I always assumed that the 18+ rule applied everywhere.
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    Dec 17, 2008 6:48 AM GMT
    flex89 saidI seem to remember a thread where all the positive guys were begging for a second chance...

    Anyone here still think it's a reasonable request?


    God. I'm guessing when a black person stole something of yours you decided every black person was a thief.

    Great logic of yours Flex.
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    Dec 17, 2008 7:00 AM GMT
    My early 20s was full of this shit; just full of it. The things I seen. It's noting new.

    Yes the 17 year old may well, have to go and recess their life, and the perpatrater should be doing life. As he has just given another a death sentence.
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    Dec 17, 2008 7:03 AM GMT
    Tonyvoyager saidThis notion of personal responsability is an interesting one. I think it's inaccurate to assume that all citizens have equal access to power and information - or have developed the necessary decision-making skills that allow them to 'take responsibility'.

    A person who has experienced abuse and neglect, discrimination or faulty learning, is at high risk for all forms of infection. They have never been taken care of adquately and have often failed to learn to take care of themselves. It's no accident that HIV has thrived among those of us who are members of oppressed and disadvantaged groups - the poor, the gay, the abused, women, aboriginals etc.

    It has also been pointed out that immaturity at any age can interfere with making good decisions about personal health. Furhermore, for many sex is a form of affirmation, affection, obligation - who knows? Those in the sex trade will sometimes go condomless for money. Drugs and alcohol are known to make people less able to make good decisions (and how many one night stands occur after a night at the bar?). And I'm sure we can think of many other factors that impact on people's ability to 'just use a condom' every time.

    I know some of you will haul out the argument that we are all responsible regardless - and to take risks is lazy, stupid, selfish etc. and a crime so horrific it deserves the electric chair. But this argument is too simplistic and doesn't begin to comprehend the incredibly complex ways in which human beings make decisions. We are so quick to leap to judgement and to condemn anyone who commits the crime of being human. The reality is that whole new generations of young, gay men are at risk and we need to figure out creative and compassionate ways to get the safe-sex message across.

    And demonizing those guys in our community who have got infected is cruel and ridiculous. Who among us hasn't made a faulty decision at some point that could have caused us harm? When last did you try to get your toast out of the toaster by sticking a fork in it? Or have your hairdryer on in front of a basin of water? Or reverse your car without looking? Or forgetting to put your seatbelt on? If you had got burnt, electrocuted, disabled or whatever are you 'responsible' for your actions and therefore worthy only of contempt?

    The quick fix response of 'let's make a law' is often a poorly disguised revenge impulse. The need to affix blame is also rampant. At the last International AIDS conference in Mexico City many speakers on the topic of Criminalizing HIV gave examples from around the world of how these laws have been horribly abused and punished scores of people who in no way were 'deliberately infecting' others. As much as it would make it easier the world is not neatly divided into good, wise, responsible citizens (us) and ruthless, antisocial degenerates (them).



    Quoted for truth, because it needs to be reread.

    P.S. Chuck, I can't even take you serious with all that testosterone gunk sitting in your brain.
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    Dec 17, 2008 7:36 AM GMT

    Thankyou, generalizations suck.
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    Dec 17, 2008 7:36 AM GMT
    I think that it is funny that several lawsuits felt lately that it is the guys with HIV are to blame. See all the recent court decisions. Does that not agree with what I have posted? Once again, I am vindicated!!!
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    Dec 17, 2008 7:38 AM GMT
    I'd also like add

    1. I'm pro criminalization of people who knowingly infect others with HIV. As much as the kid had his life in his hands, his responsibility isn't equal to that of the man who infected him. I believe his infection was more than enough.

    I also believe

    Chuckystud3
    flex89
    Ryan

    ...mindlessly contributes to the culture of fear regarding HIV, and thus have a part in reinforcing people's reluctance to test for HIV, the main reason for the spread of the disease, and also people's relunctance to disclose their HIV status.

    Being cold and politically incorrect doesn't make you right. It just makes you cold and ignorant.
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    Dec 17, 2008 7:42 AM GMT
    To all who've posted so far, thanks for putting in your 2 cents!


    Two things really pissed me off in this article:

    First, the fact that the 17 year old is under 18, yes the age of consent in Nebraska is 16, but still, anyone under 21 is off limits to me, IMHO. This whole ordeal just makes the gay community look like NAMBLA!!!! Like I've complained before, homosexuality is an uphill battle on the Plains, even more so after the straight and right wing communities see this article.

    Secondly, the HIV issue. You guys just don't understand, I've worked in the bars here in the Omaha gay community for almost 10 years, sometimes I feel like this situation is the norm here. Sometimes its not an issue of being safe, its an issue of going out and finding the information you need to know about being safe. So many people in the gay community can find gay porn, or find tricks anywhere on the internet, but they are too stupid, or ignorant to go to Google.com and type HIV in the search box. Its that goddamn easy!!!! In the first gay bar I worked in, I've caught HIV+ employees in the restrooms, messing around in the restrooms with customers they got drunk, with no protection whatsoever. I've had former customers comeback to tell me they got sick because they had unprotected sex with a fellow co-workers, who got them drunk or high in that bar! I've caught these same co-workers spreading MISINFORMATION, like telling people you cannot spread HIV until you are full blown AIDS. Isn't that fucking bullshit? I got on there case, but made hordes of enemies, because I stood up for what I thought was right. Only in the past year have I and current employees at these bars been able to turn this around, and yet there is so much work to do on the Plains.

    Just remember: Have some respect for yourself. Have some respect for the gay men who died back in the 80's because no one knew what the hell was going on. Use some damn protection! Because they died of this horrible disease, the rest of us will still live on, because we know how to protect ourselves, thanks to them!
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    Dec 17, 2008 7:51 AM GMT
    AIDS/HIV hysteria is alive and kicking on Realjock. Yawn.